

Linux Tuning Repository 113
Owain Vaughan writes "Mindcraft's excuse for their results when comparing highly tuned
NT versus vanilla Linux was that there was no
central source of Linux Tuning information.
Well there is now.
Please submit all the Linux tuning articles you can get
hold of to root@vaughan.com"
Does it matter in Mindcraft's case? (Score:1)
I'm left wondering, however, whether the existance of this site would have made any difference whatsoever in the Mindcraft testing. Face it, Mindcraft did a hatchet job on Linux, and no amount of available documentation anywhere would have made a difference. We've already seen blatant DE-TUNING of the machine. These things weren't done mistakenly!
Right! It's a good idea, lets help! (Score:1)
-H
Re:MS tuning tips (Score:1)
one of many (Score:2)
I am personally building an Enterprise (meta?) Howto ( here), and I'm working with some guys on a knowledge base and other documenation.
It would be nice if someone could put together a page on documentation projects currently in progress/infancy - mail me at betty@area51.upsu.plym.ac.uk with any info on projects or if you want info on projects - if I don't hear anything I'll put together my own documentation/Knowledgebase in progress page at the above address.
Laters.. Aaron (TheJackal/TJ)- where's my cookie gone?
Link to some tuning resources. (Score:3)
The original effort (Score:4)
http://www.nl.linux.org/linuxperf/ [linux.org]
dont forget portico.org (Score:2)
this is an awesome site for linux tips
check it out
http://portico.org [portico.org]
-xyster
Re:Question (Score:1)
Getting any information out of it is a whole other matter. I'm sure they give preference, though, if you're an "indepedant" testing firm that consistently proves every other product in the world is horrible compared to Microsoft products.
Re:one would think so (Score:1)
Trust me, since no company is the size of MS, they don't care who you are (unless you're a competitor
And don't even get me started on tech support for anything Windows. We only have a 1-900 number to call, even then it's useless. Everybody has just become accustomed to frequent reloading of NT. A three year lease on the hardware would expect two to three reloads during that time. I just find it amazing they are so pro-MS through all this. And it amazes me how much money the throw into ways of more "efficiently" reloading the OS, since many problems are hopeless to try and resolve.
Gazillions of support sites. (Score:2)
http://www.antarctic.penguincomputing.com/Linux
Re:It seems a bit sparse on content (Score:1)
People are much more likely to send you information if they see that you've already done some work and that the site is going somewhere. Who wants to send info to a site that hasn't even bothered to do the first bit of research? It doesn't inspire confidence in the future of the site.
But I guess it's easy to set up a blank site and advertise for people to fill it with content, which is why so many sites start up this way
Root... (Score:1)
Re:Cooperation? agreed... (Score:1)
and thanks for the compliment on my web design skills :-)
jaraxle
Troll's self contradiction (Score:1)
Heh, the contradiction that he implies!
"I know what I am doing well enough that I can run as root!"
Except that if you did know what you were doing, you wouldn't run as root!
Laugh him off.
No Vaporware for Linux please (Score:1)
taken down. We are not M$ and do no engage in deception. Let a guy who has some KNOWLEDGE about
tuning put up a site not just a guy who can put up a webpage.
Re:No Vaporware for Linux please (Score:1)
Have to agree (Score:1)
as an example:
http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/fileprint/tec
There are similar articles available for web servers and other pieces.
Question (Score:1)
one would think so (Score:1)
Maybe if I was a huge corporation I could get attention from them, but I'm not...
Instead we've learned how to make win95/NT work (more-or-less) right on our own. We're pretty good at it, but this can be a problem for a "real" corporation that buys a "supported" OS and expects a corresponding decrease in tech support they must provide internally.
I find it laughable (Score:1)
Does Linux have this problem? To some degree, for those uninitiates who don't know whom/how to ask. When I had a question about video hardware on Suns, I mailed Jim Mintha of UltraLinux. When I had a question about SMBfs support in the kernel, I mailed the maintainer. The documentation that is there is easily organized in howto's on common subjects. And there's a whole community of USENET junkies ready to answer questions as soon as you ask them.
Repositories with papers on tuning specific packages, organized to show you exactly what's available, will help a lot.
How does this relate to linuxperf? (Score:5)
Re:The original effort (Score:5)
Rik has just moved the list over to majordomo (message came through all of 5 mikes ago). You can join the list by sending mail to
with the body
and then come join the fun.
Note that we are taking a completely different approach to tunelinux. We're breaking it down into functional areas rather than specific applications. For example, to tune a, oh.. let's say samba server, you need to tune SAMBA, the kernel and a number of other things to get the best from your box. If you take the tunelinux approach, you'll only end up with a 50% solution because you'll just tune SAMBA, and not the kernel. The Mindcraft report is a classic for that. Yes, tune samba, but hey, the kernel still only uses 960MB of RAM. The "tuning samba" doc approach wouldn't cover that sort of information all in the one spot. Effectively you end up with the same problem as we have now - lots of documentation but so fragmented that you can't do anything useful with it.
resolves to.. (Score:4)
-mike kania
Re:Empty (Score:1)
~luge
sunsite? (Score:1)
~luge
(A frustrated Blue Devil who is constantly embittered that something as cool as metalab is at a place as lame as UNC-Chapel Hell
Re:How does this relate to linuxperf? (Score:5)
Re:Root login - WACK! (back to your hole, troll) (Score:1)
Running a bunch of processes as root is kinda insecure. Okay real insecure. Thats why you dont do everything as root, not becuase you aren't well versed enough to do so.
I think I should change my threshold to 1 now. . .
-doobman
alpha architecture? (Score:2)
Too bad, because tuning stuff (compiler flags etc) gets you lots of gains on these machines, and it's really picky about the types of memory accesses etc.
and another thing... (Score:1)
Berating this guy for using a root@ email address is silly and showing a snotty attitude.
Re:what dangers? (Score:2)
Well, yes, that is the first and foremost danger, probably. I've experienced this myself, once accidentally deleting my main .netscape folder when I thought I was in a different directory (or something, it was late at night.)
Besides this, if you are using root for your day-to-day work, you might run a binary or script that would be a big no-no to run as root. Like some malicious trojan horse code. While there is always a slight danger installing any software that you haven't thoroughly reviewed, this danger is lessened when the software is only run with the priveleges of a normal user.
If you are running a strictly single-user system and are not connected to a network, you could probably "get away with" logging in as root all the time. But there is no real reason to do this, just create a damn user! Unix security will protect you from your own late-night ineptitude!
Re:NO, Don't make it as slow as TechNet (Score:1)
I didn't say "exactly like technet down to the pixel level" did I?
why another domain? (Score:2)
I just need to ask this again (Score:2)
Hype, damned hype, and slashdot (Score:2)
Re:Root login (Score:1)
Humph. (Score:1)
Guess that's the bad thing about name-based virtual hosts.
D
----
Re:Linux Tuning (Score:1)
IMHO... If you're an individual who's getting into kernel tuning you already are the sysadmin.
Re:Cute Page (Score:1)
Here's one:
Otherwise, I'm glad someone's doing this to shut off the criticisms from those who are too lazy to visit more than one site for this information. Q: Why should the Apache group need to submit their documentation to someone else for dissemination? Do we bitch about Seagate's drive specs being on a different web site from Western Digitals's???
Re:Question (Score:5)
root@... (Score:1)
Re:Using root e-mail? (Score:2)
I think it's a great idea for the Linux community to have a resource for tuning information. However, if you want that resource to be taken seriously the people running it at least need to look like they know what they are doing.
I don't buy the alias theory. Someone who has managed to get root's mail aliased to some other account also knows that it takes abount 10 seconds to create an arbitrary alias to use for situations like this. Of course, this is all a mooot point since the web page now gives a nice clean alias to use for submitting tips.
Re:Using root e-mail? (Score:4)
Re:Cute Page (Score:1)
they have purple links (grey once you visit them) on a black background. That's even harder to read.
I guess ppl don't think about these things when they create pages. I guess they don't look at them either.
Re:Using root e-mail? (Score:1)
Perhaps this is a typo in the article?
sprading ourselves thin (Score:1)
Aren't we spreading ourselves a little too thin by having all these "helper" sites pop up?
What are we really accomplishing
Re:sunsite? (Score:1)
Re:spreading ourselves thin (part 2) (Score:1)
That really has a lot to do w/ this post.
spreading ourselves thin (part 2) (Score:4)
Note : I use "we" as a general pronoun here
What are we really accomplishing by having all these "helper" sites come online - especially when they have little or no content to them?
Wouldn't it make more sense (and maybe this is being done, but it needs to be publicized (sp) a bit better) to have all these ppl who are creating these sites pool their efforts and work on one big site?
Their intentions are definately good - but it's not acheiving the desired goal.
I know if I was a newbie user, I'd want to be able to look one place for all the hints, docs, etc that I needed, rather then having to visit numerous sites to find out one thing.
That's why sunsite was so great - b/c you could find a lot of what you were looking for in one place. But - it's not like that any more (at least I think)
We're trying to pursuade people to move over to linux as their OS of choice - but how easy are we making it for them with these "helper" sites that come on-line, but have no "help" in them.
I think that if everyone invested their time into one unified project, we'd have one helluva documentation/hints site on our hands.
Find a group of people to administer it, find a group to write the scripts (I'd help w/ that part myself), find people for "formalize" all the hints and documents that are submitted, and then put them online.
We're moving forward w/ providing documentation, but we're moving backwards as well.
Note : Again - remember that I use "we" as a general pronoun, and it doesn't necessarily refer to people who read this site - it's more of a linux population as a whole
Re:Spellcheck? bitte! (Score:2)
The following is quoted from the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary [m-w.com]
By the way: I think you mean, "definitely." Not "definately."Re:How does this relate to linuxperf? (Score:1)
It seems a bit sparse on content (Score:5)
Re:The original effort (Score:1)
Not a big deal. We just need to send some content to these sites.
Re:Root login (Score:1)
about tuning Linux will have a clue. The criticism is that most people who do normal things as root are clueless. I.E. you su to root when you need to. You don't do everything as root. It is just a good habit. If you aren't in the habit, perhaps you haven't been hacking long enough to realize it's smart.
If you don't know how to play guitar, it's hard to tell the difference between a good one and an average one. Similarly, when you get a clue, you start to recognize the clueless.
Using root e-mail? (Score:1)
Alias shmalias (Score:1)
Unless, of course, you think it looks cool to use root, in which case you should consider that it might look really lame to others.
In any case, I think it is great that someone took the initiative to get this going.
Re:No Vaporware for Linux please (Score:1)
Right, and that guy with the web site at least had a web site. What can you offer? Can you do a better job? Have you put up the $$$ for a domain dedicated to tuning? Have you paid to have a tuning site hosted? At the very least, can you point the rest of us in the direction of a project that is doing a better job than this one? If not, then kwitcherwhinin. If so, share the info.
I agree that it would be better if this project were finished, and it seems a little silly to put up a site devoid of useless information. Give it a week or three. If it hasn't incorporated some of the suggestions from the discussion on slashdot, then feel free to dismiss it for the time being. In the meantime, give it a chance to try to grow up.
Re:Question (Score:2)
Microsoft's Knowledge Base, or
www.microsoft.com...
I find it laughable that a bunch of geeks can't find technical information for the most widely disseminated OS in the world. The answers aren't easy to find, but they are centrally located, and everything there is (theoretically) authoritative. And if you can't find the answer from Microsoft, you won't find an answer. Every answer I've ever gotten from a non-Microsoft source has turned out to be either a dumbed down version of Microsoft's info or plain wrong.
P.S. I don't claim to be a fan of MS, but I did support their products for about three years.
Re:No Vaporware for Linux please (Score:2)
I would suggest that if someone is going to design a free unix kernel, it should be someone with a a master's in comp sci and at least ten years' experience programming operating systems in C with a major American corporation. It should certainly NOT be a Finnish student whose main experience with Unix was using it or writing programs for it.
This is not a corporation where you can assign jobs to people, ordemand that someone with qualifications X, Y, and Z be found to do the job. Instead, the work gets done by whoever chooses to do the job. I don't see any experts coming forward to maintain a repository of all Linux tuning information, or even a clearinghouse of where it can be found. The people who can do a better job are probably not that interested in being librarians, as they are busy being programmers.
I've always had a rule that I think is applicable here: feel free to criticize someone else's work if you can demonstrate the ability to do a better job.
C&B misunderstood (Score:2)
On the other hand, what do you consider a working product for a web site? The site in question has doubtless gleaned some useful information from this discussion, and if he has half a brain will spend the next day or so tracking info down and updating his page.
On the other hand, unless he's really dedicated, it's liable to peter out after a month or so. This kind of project requires hard work for a long time to be successful.
On the other hand - by now I'm a quadruped - thats all I wanted to say
Re:Slight problem, however. (Score:3)
By publicizing this site in this way, the author is accumulating quite a few pointers to useful information. The author demonstrates some level of commitment and credibility by investing time and $$$ to create this site (though admittedly not a WHOLE lot).
How is this going to co-ordinate itself with the kernel-doc effort being placed by riel@humbolt.nl.linux.org?
Ask the site maintainer - how is anyone else supposed to know the answer to this question? Oh wait - you didn't mean to be helpful, did you? You just wanted to criticize.
Mindcraft/Microsoft will be laughing at this site. And it will fuel their FUD that everything under Linux is Alpha/Beta software in the public domain.
What this author is proposing will not spring into view fully formed. It will take a lot of work and effort by a lot of people because no one has all the answers. The author clearly felt that the best way to grow his site was to go public as soon as he could. With a lot of work and a little luck, it will grow up.
I think it should be taken off until the author knows at least some links to Kernel tuning sites - the author could at least put up some "Under Construction" signs...
Once again, you demonstrate your desire not to help but to criticize. What are those links? Do you know where such information is? Why aren't you sharing it? The site's author is trying to be helpful; I see no evidence of that from you.
I, too, was disappointed at the lack of information on this site, but I could see that it was a work in progress. It takes a real jackass to say that because something isn't finished it isn't worth spending time on.
Re:Linux Tuning (Score:1)
I see your point, but I was really speaking more on telling the individual what daemons can be disabled and how to do it, etc. Things which will optimize Linux for a single user with an Internet account, rather than a LAN user.
Linux Tuning (Score:2)
Re:No Vaporware for Linux please (Score:1)
Slight problem, however. (Score:2)
How is this going to co-ordinate itself with the kernel-doc effort being placed by riel@humbolt.nl.linux.org ?
Mindcraft/Microsoft will be laughing at this site. And it will fuel their FUD that everything under Linux is Alpha/Beta software in the public domain.
I think it should be taken off until the author knows at least some links to Kernel tuning sites - the author could at least put up some "Under Construction" signs...
Re:No Vaporware for Linux please (Score:4)
After 5 seconds consideration I'm come to the conclusion that www.linuxtuning.com is slow and unprofessional.
www.nl.linux.org/linuxperf has to my knowledge 50 volunteers and has been properly consulted through the Linux mailing lists - which seems the right way to get people who know what they are talking about involved.
There has been a delay with linuxperf because they didn't expect to get so many volunteers and what seemed to be a small project at first looks as if it will require more management than earlier envisaged. Thankfully, however, this will probably make for a higher quality and more complete documentation project over the long term.
Thanks for listening.
Mindcraft (Score:1)
-cpd
Re:The original effort (Score:1)
This one is just as blank as www.linuxtune.com...
Bummers!
Re:spreading ourselves thin (Score:1)
of control or even resources. Instead we get a flush of people doing similar things and the best of them survive. Often several reasonable projects fold together to make a really good one. Don't knock it - it works, even if in someways its about as efficient as plain standard evolution it has the same result in that the best adapted survive.
I think that all of these efforts should probably have a comments button for each page so that each vistor can add to the knowlege base - only solution would be to have a faq-o-matic style site which just grows and self edits by rating peoples comments - in fact
Re:Using root e-mail? (Score:1)
Re:C&B misunderstood (Score:1)
It's pretty easy to tell when some code is worthy of being released ("Ok, it does a reasonable subset of what it should ultimately do."), and I think it's also pretty easy to tell when a site is ready to go "live", although maybe it's less easy to give a concrete definition. I'd say it's somewhere beyond the point of having a few stubs and pointers to external sites.
Re:It seems a bit sparse on content (Score:3)
I've been thinking about this (fairly common) phenomenon lately. It's a small part of something larger; lately, we've seen a lot of people making big announcements about open source projects, registering a domain, setting up a flashy web page and a mailing list, etc., but it turns out that practically nothing has been coded: main()'s defined and stdio.h #included.
It sounds like good ol' vaporware, but I think it's something more than just that.
I've come to the tentative conclusion that this is some of the negative backlash from The Cathedral and the Bazaar. People end up with a poor understanding of the document (Slashdot is probably guilty causing a lot of this :/); often they never read the whole paper.
I am not sure which is worse: having read but poorly understood Cathedral and the Bazaar or not having read it at all. I'm wondering if it might be the former.
Think twice before you make an announcement like this.
Re:Root login (Score:1)
Re:Hrm (Score:1)
http://193.243.238.236
but this resolves to custard.org
Funny how some can get this but not others. Tought it was my proxy but must be some nameserver issue somewhere.
Re:Does it matter in Mindcraft's case? (Score:1)
Granted, tunelinux may or may not be the right answer for an end-all, be-all tuning resource, but had it existed (and yes, been chock-full of organized, meaningful, detailed information) there might have been one less FUD point to come out of the Mind-less-craft BS. (but maybe not
Re:No Vaporware for Linux please (Score:1)
Don't bust the guy's chops because he hasn't set a world record in the 100 m when he's running a marathon.
NO, Don't make it as slow as TechNet (Score:1)
Re:Using root e-mail? (Score:1)
It's just addressed to root. It doesn't mean it's not aliased/forwarded to somewhere else, possibly even to a completely different box. A little sloppy yes, but I think it's a little knee jerk to start worrying about security issues of posting the root email address. Almost every box has it.
Re:one of many (Score:1)
Re:Spellcheck? bitte! (Score:1)
British variant of OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZE
according to Merriam-Webster [m-w.com], but what do they know?
Not Scalable (Score:1)
Unfortunately, this model does not scale very well. I work in a support organisation, and having one or two subject experts doesn't work very well when every man and his dog is after them for answers or they decide to get sick or go on vacation.
IP address (Score:2)
Official name: www.tunelinux.com
IP address: 193.243.238.236
It seems to resolve now, but it didn't the first time I tried it
Re:Using root e-mail? (Score:1)
- an Anonymous Coward said,
"Don't assume that someone else must be stupid just because you don't understand what they're doing."
Well said!
C'mon folks, give the guy(s) a break. They are trying.... You're only whining. Do something good and help them out.
Re:Root login (Score:2)
Cute Page (Score:1)
Of course, it needs to be filled with all kinds of tips, and the search engine needs to work, but hey! It's a good idea!
Kudos to them.
Now, if only I had some tuning tip for them...
Re:sprading ourselves thin (Score:1)