Dell start selling PC's with Linux 183
Well, starting this morning, DELL are starting to sell Linux pre-installed on selected workstations,
dell asks for additional 99$ for the installation. Full report from News.com is here. Speaking of pre-installing,
IBM just told Info-world reporters that they will keep selling Linux servers, but they
will "wait-and-see" about selling Workstation pre-installed with Linux. Am I the only one who
thinks that IBM need to learn about selling from Dell?
LINUX/IBM (Score:1)
Here's the IBM blip regarding server offerings:
"Toward the latter part of the second quarter, IBM will introduce support for Linux on its Netfinity 3000, 5000, and 5500 servers, as well as for its RS/6000 line of high-end servers, IBM officials specified Friday. IBM will also next month start offering Netfinity servers pre-configured with Linux."
Dell bites - buy from a REAL *nix friendly vendor. (Score:1)
www.linux-hw.com
www.penguincomputing.com
Learn from Dell? I doubt it. Try $249 on a SVR! (Score:1)
It was delayed for the last 10 days or so because all they had were the new 3Com 98xx (?) NICs and no Linux driver for them. How's that for being prepared?
The kicker to all of this is they charged us $249 for "system integration", ie, install Red Hat, and $37.92 for the software package.
I'm betting it won't even boot when it arrives.
I'll NEVER spend a penny of my personal money with them and if we buy more Linux boxen that I have influence over, I'm recommending going "off contract" to buy from a REAL Linux HW vendor... or get our buyers to negotiate a contract with VA Research or someone.
IBM Not Monolithic (Score:1)
Just because some bloke in IBM EMEA says they're taking a "wait&see" about Linux doesn't say anything about IBM US or Japan, or...
--Uche
Dell has prices messed up (Score:1)
I think Dell forgot to count their expensive NT graphics adapter ($1000 more than the permedia) in the base price of the NT Minitower, so it miscalculates the NT Minitower $1000 too low.
Hey, READ THIS! (Score:1)
Why not do the same thing with hardware?
How many people read slashdot daily? If everybody
that reads slashdot got together and formed a company, they could buy computer parts at wholesale. Do research on motherboards processors graphics cards, everything! Design a few very good computer models with LINUX pre-installed. Sell them at as little profit as possible. Support them. There must be Linux types all over the country.
Think about it. Who cares if Dell or anybody starts selling Linux PC's. Why wait on them. Compete with them.
Microsoft may or may not be worried about Linux. But it's here! It's growing.
Ignorance is the killer here folks. My brother was given qoutes on two computer systems. Windows NT and Linux. I said, "quite a difference in price wasn't there?". He said, "I had never heard of Linux, didn't even look at the quote".
Open hardware? Maybe! Don't whine, act!
who sells the hardware to dejanews? (Score:1)
Dell linux support (Score:1)
Here are the problems I see. First of all, the added cost. Some of this probably goes to linuxcare; after all, Dell probably can't provide reasonably priced tech support for linux because of the highly technical nature of most problems, and Dell's support is best prepared for "Where's the any key" type questions. But there's a decent chance Dell is REQUIRED to pay for the license of windows for each computer, whether it has windows or not. This would also explain the reluctance to provide refunds because of EULA disagreement. It would not surprise me if MS forced Dell into such a deal, long before linux became a real issue.
Second of all, is this a stock RH 5.2 install, or is it customized for each system? Are the programs compiled with pentium II optimizations? Are the packages the exact ones on a RH 5.2 cd, or have they been updated to the latest and greatest RPMs?
Third of all, linux inclusion is nice but I still wouldn't get a system with redhat. But when dell starts shipping systems with Debian GNU/Linux I'll beat a path to their door. SuSE and maybe even Caldera support would be nice, too.
Asterix
$99 ? Still MS Tax? support costs (Score:1)
ArsonSmith
leader of the speling impared
No large websites on linux?! (Score:1)
Business needs reason.. (Score:2)
Yeah, I too would like to see IBM offer Linux workstations, but I can't say that I'd see that happening very soon. The simple reason is reason.
IBM has a 5 headed chicken or the egg problem, when you consider their products, their customers, their ISV's etc.
A server is an easy match for Linux because the total picture is much clearer. A server serves stuff, period. It doesn't matter what kind of stuff you have to serve, it is all data, and server programs-a-plenty from PPP to RBDMS's exist for Linux. The server customer picture can be simplified as well. Many of IBM's server customers are familliar with big iron types of OS's. Linux is at least similar in behavior to these, with a much lower price tag. This, as well as the minimal software development for themselves, is an easy sell for IBM.
Workstations on the other hand are much more diverse. Similar to many corporate LANS which may have a one hundred to one ratio of users to administrators (except for NT shops), the diversity of workstation based tasks to server based tasks is greatly loppsided. This is the crux of the Linux workstation problem. The programs which IBM rely on to sell their workstations, just are not available on Linux. I know that more and more are released all the time, but where are the established products that businesses make decissions around? You will never see Autodesk bring AutoCAD to Linux. Nor will you see Pro/Engineer, Alias WaveFront etc. etc. etc. on Linux. Because of this, you may never see IBM selling workstations with Linux pre-installed, because their customers (current ones who spend money on their products now) would not buy a Linux workstation from IBM.
I can see the fire now, but please don't misunderstand me. You can't beat the bang for the buck of free software, but without all types of commercial software, Linux will always be relegated to the status of "Niche Server OS".
I'm convinced that overtures by Oracle, Sybase, Informix, and Corel towards Linux were motivated more by Billy G's movements deeper into their own markets. I also think that it's working to benefit the community as a whole, because server vendors are now bundling Linux, where only NT existed before.
We need some sort of Industry lobbying group that would concentrate on developers of workstation based programs. This is a much more difficult and diverse task than getting a word processor or office suite ported, as many of these developers are in vertical markets themselves. It would be a huge risk, a leap of faith for, lets say Unigraphics, to port their products to Linux. Yes, they develop them for many UNIX flavors, but a program for an operating system with as many different distributions as Linux, with infinite hardware configurations, and no telling how many graphics configurations that they would have to deal with. On top of that, a Linux port would cause serious strain on their relationship with M$. Many of these companies have this problem, as we all know that final budgeting decissions made by their customers, are constantly made by PHB's that require the M$ stamp of approval, and have the misconception that all UNIX machines cost ~$70,000, and are incapable of doing anything usefull like playing solitaire (Oh, bad flashback to former PHB).
$99? More like $1000!!!! (Score:2)
I am not sure what went wrong in your case, but
I tried the same.
To be more specific, the HD is 7200rpm, I included
the Harman speakers, had the Dell 21 inch monitor
the Performnce key board, the Logitech mousewheel
mouse, the rest is as you had it.
For Linux I get 3,661 dollars
For NT (subtract the 1 year service contract)
it's 3690.
So actually in this configuration Linux is about
30 dollars cheaper.
Of course, you could get the same stuff
for hundreds of dollars cheaper e.g. at Comtrade
(without an OS, though)
Somewhat unrelated, I recently noted that one
can buy laptops without Windows from Zenon
Technologies (www.zenontech.com)
No I don't work for either of them I just buy!
This is how the commercial nixes will FUD linux (Score:2)
1984 FUD: "No one will write any significant free software."
1989 FUD: "No one will write an entire complete free software system."
1994 FUD: "No one will use free software in their business."
1999 FUD: "No one will run their data center on free software."
What's next?
So What! Dell doesn't promote Linux (Score:2)
This is not a big deal folks. Dell probably is also installing Linux, not so much to help themselves, but to help M$. I mean, who was the largest apologist and defender of M$ at all the trial action and at the Senate hearings? Michael Dell, that's who. I looked for where I could purchase a system preinstalled with Linux and they've succesfully buried it, enough so that Bill probably doesn't give a shit that they are also offering it. He's sure to have his attorney's wave it around in court that there is ample "competition" to try and blunt any fallout from the trial. So, it's all bull really. If you've got to dig so deep to find it, then it's not really there as far as I'm concerned.
If I've got to call and request it from a sales rep. then it's not truly available. I visited the workstation area and Linux certainly was not available there in contrast to the earlier interview of Mr. Dell which claimed it would be there. There were only MS OSs listed there.
If IBM will have anything to learn from Dell, I hope it will be to actively promote Linux, as opposed to offering it with barriers standing in the way of a purchase.
Dell UNIX (Score:4)
Nice HREF (Score:1)
more senseless whining (Score:1)
I can see a couple reasons for the current pricing.
Cost of NT + $20? (Score:1)
But that doesn't make sense either, does it? The cost should either be the same as a Win98 install, or less. The price shouldn't be anywhere near the cost for NT (unless the extra charge for NT is zero..)
$20 and not $99 (Score:3)
The article mentions costing 20 bucks over the NT installation. This probably has to do with adding the LinuxCare support contract on top of the Microsoft pricing deal.
No large websites on linux?! (Score:1)
No one at all? I wonder who made this moron the authority.
Very small favors, but better than Micron ... (Score:1)
That is, my tape drive fails to be detected under Win95, with confirming evidence that the parallel port is not detected for the printer by Linux, means: remove Linux take out the second hard drive (Linux only on this drive) then they would consider my problem. [I would have to even do more than that to return to my as shipped configuration - just not worth my time.]
In my case, they immediately lost another sale for a primarily Win95/98 machine because it too would have a Linux partition.
I might consider a Dell later, but I would install my own copy - even with all the problems that can entail. Just a thought.
Smoking Crack. (Score:1)
$99 for Linux is > what Windoze costs... (Score:1)
Charging more for just Linux is rediculous, especially when you consider that all of the hard drives they stick into the machines are all cloned from a master drive image somewhere. Thus once you have the image, copies are no harder or easier to make than for Windows installed drives.
However, pre-installing Linux means that hardware has to work with Linux. This means no win-modems and the like and I would expect a higher cost here. But Dell said the extra $99 was for the Linux "installation" which means they're just ripping off the consumer.
One step, then another (Score:1)
Well, Dell started out with Linux on servers - pretty much invisible on the web site ordering thingy. Now we actually got a listing on the OS options for two workstations. I figure this is pretty good. Fsck Dell's motive. This is a good poke in the eye for MS. If this helps MS in the DOJ trial - which I doubt - it can't counteract the blatant self-destructive stuff MS has already done in that venue.
I see this as a good step in the right direction. Let's see what kind of response it gets. Quite frankly, if I had the money to order one of the 410 or 610 boxes now, I would, no hesitation.
BTW, Hendrix and beer at 6 am on a Saturday do wierd things to your mind.
DOJ versus M$ (Score:1)
For the most part, I agree with your sentiment.
The thing that has to be remembered about the current trial is that it is already over.
On day one of the trial, the DOJ presented his Billness with a very embaressing collection of "smoking e-mails". In short, they were telling his Billness "we know *exactly* what you have been doing and we have already decided on the *exact* number of teeth that we are going to punch out of your useless lieing mouth, so if your smart, you won't wate our time with useless BS..."
The DOJ already knows the extent of M$ criminal activities. The trial is simply being held as a pre-arranged media event to demonstrate to all of the hoplessly neieve "Microsoft true believers" that the DOJ is justified when they finally get around to nailing his Billness up to a tree. Events that have occured since the begining of the trial arn't relevent - the trial is about M$ activities over the last four years, not whats happened since the trial began.
The outcome of the trial was pretty much decided before it had even begun. The DOJ just hasn't told the rest of us yet.
My aplologies for the poor grammer and spelling, it's just that if I use the preview, it trashes my post ( yes, this is *definatly* beta right now ).
$99 ? (Score:1)
your'e right. why $99? you can just go get it for free! What a bunch of losers
Some facts instead of rumors - in defense of Dell (Score:1)
This is not my opinion, these are facts:
The $20 is an installation charge for Linux, not a charge for Linux itself.
Dell's list price for NT, Win '98, '95, or Linux is $0.
RH Linux 5.2 does not support all of the options available on a Dell Precision Workstation, therefore the configurations available are limited.
90 days of support through Linuxcare comes standard on Precision Workstations loaded with Linux for a charge of $0. Workstations loaded with Linux are not charged for NT support (see below).
1 Year of NT support comes standard on Precision Workstations that are loaded with NT for a charge of $199 (list).
Add up the above, and tell me if you still think you are being charged a high premium for Linux.
No large websites on linux?! (Score:1)
oh, come on, give Dell a break... (Score:3)
1) Dell "not perceiving a market for Linux" to
2) Dell "not perceiving a market for Linux workstations" to
3) Dell providing for that market.
That's a lot of movement in a few months. And Dell aren't stupid. They know that Linux development is probably going to be less fragmented than MS's in the coming year or so, what with the glacial move towards Win2K, and the potential for a corporate dissection by the courts.
For sure, Linux comes at a premium now, but that's due to economies of scale. And Dell isn't a company for the purist who wants a machine built from scratch; they build solid, reliable, top-end machines and provide top-notch support. They're your boss's choice, and if your boss sees "Linux" among the options, at $99 extra, (s)he's going to wonder what's so good about Linux that Dell make you pay extra for it...
I'm writing this now, on my 1997 Dell machine, running Debian. I've no complaints. Yet another step towards world domination, yet another line in the sand trampled over.
DejaNews runs Linux. (Score:2)
--
Error 598 (Score:1)
Too many inodes and shit.
There is demand. (Score:1)
love to see maya, discreet (now theres something
that will never happen, ive never seen a company
more dependant on wintel than kinetix), alias etc.
mostly irix people who like the better render times
of wintel boxen but miss the environment and
stability of linux. and MS haters who also refuse
to touch a mac (perception as a toy and a crappy OS)
"inodes and shit"? (Score:2)
A Single Data Point (Score:2)
1:00am up 87 days, 15:11, 10 users, load average: 0.02, 0.02, 0.00
This is not fiction, nor is it unusual. In fact, we've probably had busier days. The only reason the box didn't serve 3 million hits when we weren't looking was that our T1 connection was completely saturated the entire time. I can honestly say not a single minute that day did I, for some very odd reason, wish AIX had anything to do with _my_ workday.
I couldn't keep this back! (Score:2)
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'
[Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] The server appears to be not available.
/v3.asp, line 55
$99 for installation? What a crock. (Score:1)
I can make some assumptions as to why Dell would put a rediculous charge on a Linux installation, but I'm not one to speculate or toss out conspiracy theories without proper intoxication.
Mixed Reports on Pricing: What's the Real Deal? (Score:1)
Pre-installed Linux means no win-hardware => Good (Score:1)
huh ? (Score:1)
With Linux systems, they likely have to do their installations completely differently, probably with at least some mild human intervention.
who cares? (Score:1)
And if you install your own OS on a PC after you get it from the manufacturer, you are on your own, warranty and support wise. That's the main difference between factory installed and roll-your-own OS. And that's what Dell is charging for.
Money probably goes for support staff (Score:4)
It would be much too much of a pain to us and to them to treat Linux-equipped machines differently from MS boxes, and only have pay-as-you go support when everyone else is under warranty. They'd have to clearly identify machines with factory Linux, maybe even a special set of serial numbers, to tell who gets what support. And the cultists would probably whine about a Gates-led conspiracy then, too. So they have to have Linux trained bodies to throw at the phone bank in case some script-kiddie in Iowa talks daddy into buying him a redhat box, and then promptly blows it up doing something deeply stupid. Dell doesn't care if the end-user is an idiot, they'll still sell the machine. The normal Linux idiot filter, where by the time a person can get it to work he has to know at least a little about his machine, fails when its guaranteed to work out of the box.
Once they sell more boxes - and have metrics about how few Linux users have to call for Dell help - the margin will drop. Simple as that. The first people to buy will get charged more to pay to offset the risk Dell is taking, to add the staff before they sell the machines. As selling factory-installed redhat becomes part of normal business, and the folks needed become part of the normal staffing requirements, the cost difference will probably lean toward Linux' favor.
But you can still blame Bill Gates if you want, far be it from me to take away what little joy some of you get from life.
Dell UNIX (Score:1)
While Dell clearly didn't quite "get the Unix" market back then, they were one of the very few PC vendors that even tried to "get it." That, in it self, is reason to hold out a lot of hope for Dell.
And U thought we are sucker....a reply!!!! (Score:1)
BTW, Rob, if you want free discussions going on here, I challange you to keep this post instead of removing it Otherwise this message board is no better than a company sponsered board
I doubt that Rob removed your post. I doubt that Rob had anything to do with what happened to your post.
I am not going to come out of the AC (Thats my choice)
Being an AC is your choice, but it does have consequences such as not being able to automatically set your "viewing threshold" and see that your previous message had its score dropped to -1. This was most like done by a moderator other than Rob.
*Why* did a moderator drop your score? I don't know, but one guess is that it sounded somewhat belligerent. Had you not posted it as an AC, it would still have had a score of zero and would be visible by default.
I have a bone to grind with some of the posters here.. While saying that VA and Linux-hw use quality components.. they flame Dell for not using quality components. Do you all have evidance for that.
Kit Cosper didn't say anything about the quality of parts that Dell uses, he certainly didn't flame them.
No large websites on linux?! (Score:1)
$99? More like $1000!!!! (Score:1)
I did my pricing for mini-tower workstations for small businesses (fewer than 400 employees) and the price differential was roughly $920 in NT's favor. Other people compared desktop workstations for home users and got a $20 difference.
Another problem lies in the difficulty in doing an apples-to-apples comparison; the default configurations for Dell NT workstations is wildly different from the defaults for Linux workstations.
In any case, while I like Dell's workstation hardware (reliable, easy to configure) I find that Dell offers too many configurations to too many markets, with too much price fluxuation, depending upon the presumed target demographic group.
$99? More like $1000!!!! (Score:5)
For starters, the Linux version is sold on a different price page than the Windows 9X/NT version, and has *much* fewer options -- no dual processor options, no sound card options, misc other options missing. The options for the two pages are in different sequences, making comparison much harder too.
After grumbling a bit, I pulled up 2 browser windows, and side-by-side matched options for the following configuration:
Precision 410 MiniTower, Pentium II/450, 128mb ECC RAM, (1) 9gb SCSI HD, 21" UltraScan 1600HS monitor, Diamond Permedia 2 AGP graphics card, IOMEGA ATAPI Zip drive
The price for Windows NT: $3891
The price for Linux: $4809
What's wrong with this picture???
Pros, not cons... (Score:2)
b.) Depending on the options you choose, you CAN INDEED get a Linux-based system from Dell for cheaper than an NT system. Likewise, on certain options, they are more expensive on Linux. Dell has had to implement all new policies to support Linux, and some initial costs can be expected to help recoup from these. Just because the OS is (theoretically) free doesn't stop normal economics from taking effect -- somebody has to still stand there and either install it or copy from a drive image...
c.) Give them time... Once Dell has systems out on the market for a while, they'll work out all the bugs, and then more companies will jump on the bandwagon... I garauntee a lot of other companies are watching with some speculation on whether or not Dell will be successfull on this little venture. If we want other companies to begin to offer Linux (or for that matter, BeOS, FreeBSD, or any other MS alternative), we need to offer then a bit of support, and not start flaming them like mad. If the suits at Dell happen to be reading this, they'll be seeing very few positive threads here. Seems like all
Capitalism is not perfect but often works (Score:2)
Fake linux support (Score:1)
Actually, thats something I've been wondering about as well. Is Windows actually installed when you buy a 'puter from a large vendor like Dell, or is it just a copy of some pristine image? If it is then even if Windows comes pre-installed and you do access it when you turn it on to install linux you still haven't violated the terms of the MS license agreement (you didn't install it, the copy on the machine isn't even the copy covered by the license)
Don't Freak About the $99 (Score:4)
Is it $99 worth of difference? I don't know, I don't think very many people know for sure.
I'd be happy to pay the extra $99 (for a laptop -- I put my own desktop systems together) if and only if Microsoft doesn't get a dime of my purchase.
IBM (Score:1)
Conflict with CD-ROM??? (Score:1)
"1 component selection may require changes to other system options. Please check below."
The CD-ROM option said
"17/40X IDE CD-ROM for Windows NT"
but there was no option to change it. Is this their way of offering Linux without actually having to sell any machines since they would have this conflict?
It's for those who want it preinstalled (Score:1)
Good for them.
His website is not come.to (Score:1)
BTW, "The server appears to be not available"? Appears? How's that for an understatement by Microsoft...
"open source" hardware? (Score:1)
Via mail-order, I can order all the necessary components and build my own system at a price comparable to (or cheaper than) something that Dell would offer.
Granted, I think it would be a cool idea -- as a hobby. I just don't really see any practical value to it since the hardware market is so competitive.
--
Mark Fassler
fassler at frii dot com
This is how the commercial nixes will FUD linux (Score:1)
I'm starting to see this from all the commercial unix vendors - "linux is OK for low end server work, but our (insert commercial OS here) is more appropriate for high end work."
Not that linux would be appropriate for 1 million hits/day, sweet christ that's a lot of work. But how many people have a million hits per day?
There are some very high profile, busy sites running free unixes, yahoo, deja news, etc.
You're right I underestimated! (Score:1)
Slashdot get nearly a million hits per day, and it is all beta cgi scripts and only runs on a dual P2.
What about a quad zeon or alpha machine?
deja news is a rollover system isn't it? (Score:1)
Mixed Reports on Pricing: What's the Real Deal? (Score:3)
We've got one post up there that says the Linux-configured box is $1K more than the NT box, while some other posts say that the Linux box is $200 cheaper.
Could someone do a detailed comparison?
Schwab
No large websites on linux?! (Score:5)
Deja News is one of the top destination sites on the Web, with some four to five million unique users a month who generate more than 125+ million pageviews monthly.
Which would be about 3 million hits/day. Check netcraft, and you find - Linux/Apache.
They claim to process over a million articles a day as well. And it's a remarkably responsive site.
All the more reason...And U thought we are sucker. (Score:1)
We provide a service, that service is ensuring that the components we install in our systems are the best available. Have you priced a PC Power & Cooling power supply lately? Yes, they cost more than most other power supplies, but they last . Some of them have a 5 year warranty.
As far as the software, we know where it comes from, and we care where it comes from. I've used Linux since the early days of the SLS distribution (10 floppies). Yes, we've been in the trenches supporting and pushing the development of Linux for many years, unlike the opportunistic people out there who just want to sell computers, we want to sell Linux computers.
Now, if you would care to come out from behind the AC mask I'll be happy to discuss this in more detail as you like. Otherwise you'll be off the scope since I normally don't see AC posts. Thank Rob for the filtering!
--Kit
All the more reason.... (Score:3)
For example, we've got a client that has used 4 of our SMP boxes with 100+ GB of RAID storage to help replace a couple of mainframes. I'm sure the folks at VA have similar stories. We're both offering onsite service and you can get Linux installed the way you want. No hassles, no worries.
Before anyone calls either of us a "garage" business we've just signed a lease for a new facility and VA is in the middle of relocating. Neither of us are Dell (yet :-) but we're both a long way from where we started.
--Kit
$99 ? Still MS Tax? (Score:1)
Graphics (Score:1)
my debian machine (potato)
running xfree86 3.3.3.1 (get it from X task force site)
it's stable and beautiful.. wish 3d games work on this.. i suppose q3a would be the first
--
Support Costs May Be Higher Than You Think (Score:1)
I disagree that their support costs are going to turn out to be low, at least not at first.
It's not that Linux is harder to maintain than Windows. My experience agrees with others--Linux is more reliable, and once you get something working, it stays working.
The problem is the learning curve. A large percentage of Dell's customers will be starting with no Linux experience (or Unix for that matter). The fact that Linux is pre-installed will help of course, but Dell is going to have to deal with questions like "How do I get my ADSL modem working?", or "How do I install application X?".
It also won't help that there is a lot of good support on the Internet. Current Linux users are mostly Hackers, and they are, by definition, self-teaching. Future Linux users (not to mention your typical barely competent sysadmin) will not be Hackers, and they will need their hands held.
In order for Linux to realize the low support costs that should accompany its quality, a few things need to happen:
1. Linux distributions need to come with better documentation (Redhat--your book sucks!).
2. Installation procedures for Linux applications need to be simplified, standardized, and documented.
3. There needs to be enough experienced Linux users around that new users can turn to their co-workers, friends, and sons and daughters for help, the way they do today with Windows.
I predict a rosy future for Linux, but we all know that getting there is not going to be a cakewalk, especially when it comes to getting the general public involved.
I wouldn't let those clowns install Linux (Score:1)
Besides that, the only modem option available is a CRAPPY WINMODEM --- duuuhuh
So What! Dell doesn't promote Linux (Score:1)
wrath of the DOJ for too many years. IBM is
NOT going to push Linux on desktops till the
DOJ vs MS is in closure stage. Look at what
AOL consuming Netscape did. Hang in there
people, we don't want Linux from putting
Micros~1 behind bars! They must do time for
the damages done or ANY OS will have slim
change in hell at gaining much on the desktop.
MS-Ziff Davis will pummel Linux as soon as
the case is over.
Locutus
DOJ versus M$ (Score:1)
involved. In 1994, Microsoft was in the same
pickle and signed a weak agreement with the DOJ.
The Judge assigned to review the agreement, one
Justice Sporken, read it and saw that it would do
nothing to right was was already done and he
rejected it. Janet Reno, took the case from
Sporken and handed it to on Justice Jackson who
was told to sign it by Reno.
In other words, it ain't over til Fat Billie is
sing'n the blues. And we are not safe until then.
Locutus
And if those guys are too expensive ... (Score:1)
It's an improvement (Score:1)
-- Donovan
Who cares if there's stil an MS Tax? (Score:1)
Once a lot of people start buying machines with linux preloaded, it will be almost impossible for MS to use these defacto per-processor licensing agreements without the DOJ hitting them ( they're still staggering away from their last bout ... at'em, Boies !!! )
This news is not earth shattering, it is just another small step that linux is making into the mainstream. However, it is making small steps so rapidly that I dare not blink for fear of missing one (-;
Cheers,
--Donovan
They're better off going a linux shop (Score:1)
http://www.tcu-inc.com
http://www.swt.com or
http://www.aslab.com
or whoever. The Dell machines are nice , but an LVD SCSI machine is a real overkill for about 99% of users. To summarise, I would recommend these things to a developer (or a gimper / povray user ) with a large budget, but not a typical home user.
On the other hand, the afore-mentioned linux shops guys sell desktops in the more reasonable $1500 range, which is about what you'd expect to pay for a quality consumer desktop ( tcu-inc sell AMD based machines in the sub 1000 range )
This is a positive step in that Dell is beginning to embrace linux as a desktop OS. The next step will be for them to embrace it as a mainstream desktop OS and start installing it firstly on their Optiplex lines and secondly on their Dimension lines.
Cheers,
--Donovan
TCU-inc beat them AND preload linux (Score:1)
CHeers,
--Donovan
And if those guys are too expensive ... (Score:1)
NONE of the linux shops put "crappy hardware" in the machines, in fact if your budget for a machine+monitor is $2000- , VA will give you a *much* lower quality machine than some of the other guys. Take a look around and see if any of the linux hardware shops put "crappy hardware" in the machines. On the contrary, the place I just purchased from uses quality components from the board to the video card to the case to the modem
I would understand your "point" about "peace of mind" if VA were substantially more generous in their service and/or used substantially better parts than the other dealers. But they are not.
Have a nice day.
-- DOnovan
TCU allow you to pick any board (Score:1)
cheers,
-- Donovan
Elford, the Cheap TCU-Inc charges $50 for Linux (Score:1)
No. They are just a tad pricey. (Score:1)
Seattle motherboard, Celeron 300A CPU, 5G IDE HD (what brand ??? ) , 64MB RAM, 8MB G200 video.
$1395.
Add $179 for a modem.
For a comparable price, the other linux vendors could give you a penitum II-350, a hard drive twice as big, twice as much memory, a ZIP drive, and a better motherboard.
FUD and motherboards (Score:1)
The registration has two parts. You register at their site, and you have to type in the details when you install.
Let me tell you most board comming from Taiwan cost next to nothing.
WTF are you talking about ??? TCU use Intel boards as the default. Your conspiracy theory about them using "cheap" Taiwanese boards to cut costs just has no substance. Especially when you consider that they will ship a system with ANY board you choose. BTW, I've yet to see a linux shop use an LX board in their pentium II systems. FUD again.
( BTW, the "cheap" asus p2b series IS FCC class B compliant. So are the inwin cases. And they get better reviews than the intel boards ... see Tom's guide or any other review. )
About the "if you go to servers" ... who cares ? I don't want to buy a server. We were discussing "workstations". Dell are offering a fair deal , but it's only a fair deal if you are in the market for a killer machine. Their precision workstation is nice, but it is very high end. The linux shops offer a broader product range.
Thin end of the wedge (Score:2)
Firstly , the small vendors who are linux based have gradually taken the following steps ...
- Supported linux on slightly overpriced , high end servers and PCs ( VaResearch comes to mind
... ) - Supported linux on reasonably priced high grade consumer desktop models ( eg LHS, Penguin, SWT, ASL )
- Made low cost AMD systems available ( tcu-inc )
Meanwhile, we have seen similar trends from the major PC manufacturers, who seem to be taking steps to make sure they don't lose the linux users to linux friendly shops. In the last few months, Dell has taken the following steps:- Offered linux to anyone who will buy in
- Offered "linux compatible" workstations
- Installed and supported linux on workstations
Does anyone else see a pattern ? I am betting that Dell will have linux on their consumer lines before long, and the pricing will be less discriminatory.cheers,
--Donovan
more senseless whining (Score:1)
You speak of captialism. Well in modern day times that means hitting a price point the consumer will eat up. This does not mean setting a price point that falls outside the range of consumer acpetance.
Now look at the surrounding environment of linux being installed on deliverable commoditized workstations.
What you find is a level of user expectation that is going to see a 99$ addition to the base unit and not grasp why they shouldnt just get an extra 64 meg of ram instead.
Linux folks who know enough about linux to get over the 99$ tag will not be having linux preinstalled on a DELL in the first place, so your talking about an entirely differnt market.
They should make it not only attrative but set the price so it seems its a give away. Why? Becuase then dell gets to be Firstest with the Mostest linux sales...which if you can see down the road will mean they will get mad bizness from folks who will be looking to jump on the bandwagon.
Pricing too high early on will mean they wont get the flood gate reaction buy. If they ran a LINUX FOR JUST 30$--JOIN THE REAL COMPUTER REVOLUTION AT A GREAT PRICE--deal then you would see folks going krazynuts koko.
Why waste a great marketing ploy with a bad price point?
Money money and the hordes to come (Score:2)
This whole "LInux INstalled on a PC at deliver"
will only fly IF its a good thing for consumers, and they are all about the bottom line.
Linux heads and the like will do the install themselves, I mean what died-in-the-wool *nixer would use a preinstall of the os with out spending more time tweeking with it, oin which csae you might as well have installed it yourself.
So to sum up MAke IT Attractive to the Consumer or this is going to go the way of 3d game controlers
Fake linux support (Score:1)
And of course if they price them such that they are more expensive, or less desirable in other ways, then they can say, "Well, we offered them, but there was not enough interest." What creeps.
This is not a Good Thing, it is a Scary Thing.
$99 for a free os. (Score:1)
Business needs reason.. (Score:1)
I don't see them NOT doing that, once an easily installable Linux exists for the new systems.
D
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Economies of Scale (Score:2)
Don't discount the economies of scale in trying to figure out the "real" cost to Dell of supporting Linux.
If you sell computers, and
80% of your customers want operating system "X" (98)
19% of your customers want operating system "Y" (NT)
1% of your customers want operating system "Z" (Linux)
,your overhead costs for OS "Z" is going to be much higher even if OS "Z" can be obtained for $200 less than X and Y.
Ramping up an organization as big as Dell on Linux is not inconsequential. There are integration costs, testing costs, sales person training, legal costs, new business relationships to manage, reprogramming the order systems, de-standarizing the winmodem, teaching people how to pronounce and spell "Linux", and so on.
If I were them, I would charge the early (mainstream) adopters extra just so I could afford to ramp the organization up.
(Besides, they are not selling to the OC-Celery homebrew crowd. They are probably targeting small business and big corporate accounts, where a pre-install is definately worth $100 in labor costs.)
--
$99 ? Still MS Tax? (Score:1)
Probably not though.
One small step for a nerd/one giant leap for a PHB (Score:1)
I wanna Linux PC (Score:1)
so I am the famous benprogrammer who is on top of the Slashdot page.
I'm famous, so what?
Anyway, I not only want to get rid of these messages, but also I wanted to say that I really need an Linux PC.
The only thing I can get here is a PII 350, which I need a BX chipset motherboard for and some DIMM 7ns 100MHz SDRAM, etc.
This is going to cost me.
So, what about this quote: "you can run Linux on an 486DX-66."
OK, try finding one over here.
Good luck, you'll need it!
do they still charge you for windows? (Score:1)
No large websites on linux?! (Score:1)
I think that is running linux and apache,
and had about 350 million downloads of trailer 2
at about 25 meg a pop, in the place of one week.
Is that good enough?
No large websites on linux?! (Score:1)
thought I should better check
www.starwars.com is running Apache/1.3.4 (Unix) on Solaris, according to netcraft.
oh well I admit it I was Wrong, but how does one eat ones words when they are on a screen?
Dell UNIX (Score:1)
Thanks for nothing dell. (Score:1)
Umm... can we put the price of win98 (which we won't be purchasing) towards that 99 dollars...? Something tells me the answer is no. Instead- we're still paying for windows, and we get slapped with a ridiculous 99 fee- linux or windows, from dell's perspective the installation is hardly any different. If I recall correctly, you used to be able to get linux on a dell for $175. I guess it's on sale now.
more senseless whining (Score:1)
You didn't expect them to install it for you for free did you? Get a grip!
a little shady.. (Score:1)
Also, the price at first looks steap because by default, they are packing a 21 inch moniter with it.. by selecting a 17 inch moniter, it automaticly reduces the price by like $400.
All in all though, I did a side by side comparison of two boxes... One with win(lose)NT and one with Linux. The linux box came out to be 200 bucks cheaper... not that bad really. But, I also noticed how they didnt have nearly the amount of options as they had for the loseNT boxes... Raid being one of them.
Yeah, IBM sold 600 PCs Linux pre-installed (Score:2)
How many of you are going to buy a Dell Linux Box? (Score:1)
Cheers
Ports of UNIX apps (Score:1)
I would like to see this happen too, but right now there's just not as much desktop demand for Linux as there is server demand, probably because to managers, the perceived benfits are less for desktop systems. Eventually critical mass will be obtained but it may take longer than it did for servers.
Some more Pros... (Score:2)
2.) Regardless of the price relative to other Dell machines, these prices (at least for the Xeon machines) are a bit lower than VA or Penguin Computing. I'm not saying we shouldn't support Linux friendly vendors - I, for one, would rather buy my machine from VA or Penguin - but the point is that their pricing is actually competetive against what's already out there. Over time, competition will lower prices to the level of Windows machines.
3.) Many companies (including the one I work for) buy all of their PCs from Dell. Having Dell visibly support Linux may help increase the level of acceptance of Linux in companies like these.
Dell's behavior has often been less than great when it comes to supporting non-MS alternatives, but we don't have to pick nits(sp?) and flame the hell out of them when they make a stab (albeit a somewhat clumsy stab) at doing something right.
No large websites on linux?! (Score:2)
Ever heard of Dejanews [netcraft.com]?
the link is to the netcraft survey page of the site
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