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Red Hat Software Businesses

Red Hat Releases Starbuck 223

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-download dept.
An anonymous reader was the first to let us know that ftp.redhat.com has something new- Starbuck, aka Red Hat 5.9, aka Pre 6.0. Hopefully this thing will be on the mirrors.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Red Hat Releases Starbuck More

Red Hat Releases Starbuck

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  • RH 5.2 installed the crappy fvwm95, with the menus filled with garbage applications. Plus it's 386 optimized!

    Mandrake/Bero's whole purpose is to provide a version of RH that preinstalls and integrates KDE, and comes with a useful set of applications preinstalled. It's meant to be useable right out of the box. And, as you say, since the Bero merger they're going to make it Pentium optimized too.

    Given RedHat's GNOME ties, I can't see them ever providing the KDE preinstall/integration and app. support that Mandrake do.

    If you want to use Linux as a desktop OS, then Mandrake is a killer disribution! :)


  • Wow, a BattleStar Ponderosa (think: Lorne Green) theme to product code names!

    Next we'll be seeing "Adama", "Imperious Leader", and "Daggit" releases.


  • I think it's more likely that it's a reference to Battlestar Galactica.

    And, your .sig is blasphemous to the Talking Heads! :)
  • BG was not bad to begin with--it was kind of cutting edge for its day. They lost me with the "Battlestar Galactica Meets C.Hi.P.S" episode.
  • Is it me, or is the network install disk broken? It worked for my late february install of rawhide, but I recently tried upgrading, and now it won't connect to anything...

    Anyone had any luck with this?
  • Just make sure you're ctrl key is in the right place ... next to the A.

    -A

  • Netscape 4.51 does not run so happily until you put libc5.4 into its LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Otherwise if you try to run it against the libc5.3 library that comes stock with Red Hat you will get semi-random JavaScript crashes. This is similar to the problems you had running the old version of StarOffice under Red Hat.

    Actually, I plunked libc5.4 into its home directory, and put a script named 'netscape' in /usr/bin that set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to put the Netscape home directory first in the library search path then call the binary. I also had to do this with the rvplayer to make it work correctly (i.e., set it up with a LD_LIBRARY_PATH). The RPM on the real.com site did not do it for me, and the .tar.gz was linked against libc5.4.

    With that hack, 4.51 has been fairly stable (though it still occasionally leaks memory from the text input widget -- but far less than it used to). But obviously this is not something that Red Hat can do on a released version. Besides, according to several news sources 4.51 still has JavaScript security bugs that were fixed in 4.08. (But 4.08 still leaks memory bad in the text widget, sigh).

    -- Eric
  • Or at least put stuff you don't write specs for under /usr/local.

    It's not that hard, and well worth the trouble.

    (Yes, I _know_ you were being sarcastic)...
  • Posted by Asmodean_:

    Anyone know if Starbuck is glibc 2.1 based? Last time i tried upgrading to 2.1 I ended up reinstalling.

    Redhat is not a very good distro in terms of what they give, personally I always liked Slackware, but then again I've gotten into the habit of pretty much compiling everything from scratch anyway, so any distro will do for me.
  • Posted by Just Another Perl Hacker from:

    So... does that mean the NEXT release will be
    called "Ishmael"??
  • Posted by deskjock:

    I was doing evaluations of Java Charting Applets for work -- With NS 4.5 it crashed 18 of 20 tries...on totally different applets. NS 4.51 actually worked on 18 of 20....Imagine that.
  • Posted by aalain:

    Finally, I say goodbye to the need to create custom install-disks to be able to recognize an Ultra2.

    It's been a pain, but I have been running RH5.2 with 2.2.3. The upgrade from 5.1 with 2.1.x was painful, as I had to create a custom upgrade disk...

    Now, if only OpenSound releases drivers for the latest sound cards...droool....

    --Alain
  • wtfo.com has everything today, but it is SLOW

    I wish ftp.cs.buffalo.edu would get it - they're VERY fast for me. (Same backbone)
  • I've found ONE Starbuck mirror

    ftp.wtfo.com - SLOW.

    I've found many mirrors w/o starbuck:
    ftp.cdrom.com
    ftp.unet.brandeis.edu
    ftp.cs.buffalo.edu (Personal favorite mirror)
    ftp.cc.gatech.edu
    ftp.ilstu.edu
    ftp.eecs.umich.edu
    metalab.unc.edu
    ftp.tux.org
    ftp.codemeta.com

    In short, EVERY mirror I've tried. wtfo.com is a fluke.
  • From the mirrors, it's dead. Very dead. MAKE SURE you have a good copy of it before you try to install! (Installation will not show an error.)

    I was an idiot and backed up the wrong home directory on my system before doing a reinstall. (Didn't upgrade because I wanted to repartition.)

    I lost my mail filters, forgot how to recreate them, AND I lost all of my mail! :(

    Didn't help that I tried a RawHide a few days ago. BAD IDEA!

    Seems a bit glitchy to me, especially the default E theme. (The menu is obscenely tiny)
  • Gee, why would anyone want to abandon SCO?

    It's so much fun working on a machine that can't even compile "hello 1.000 world" out of the box.

  • Every line of code written at RedHat is released under the GPL. Hard to be a monster when you don't clench your grubby fingers around some IP rights. RedHat is also a nice bunch of people.

    By the way, I run Debian now. I still respect RedHat and I think it's the right distribution for a great many people. They are NOT Microsoft -- my suspicion is that the screwiness of certain parts of the filesystem is due to well-intentioned attempts at standardization, and that's the only stupid nit I really have to pick with RH.

    Adobe, Sun, IBM, Apple, HP, Compaq, and Cygnus all make a great deal more from their "freed" code than RedHat ever will; to call them "monsters" is disingenuous.

    Back under the bridge, you!

  • Adobe hasn't ever freed any code AFAIK.

    Sorry about that.

  • I've downloaded a bunch of stuff recently via the RPM database link they have on the front page. Unlike using the mirrors, it has a handy front end with alphabetic sort, etc.

    Of course, now that'll be slashdotted and I'll never be able to download from Red Hat again...

  • Woo Hoo! (Score:1)

    by Hall ( 962 )
    It's been said many, many times... use the mirrors! My local mirror (only a few short hops from my ISP) is Ohio State. Problem is, in this case, they don't have the starbucks section mirrored yet. ;-(

    Otherwise, they are always very up-to-date and more importantly, fast!

  • I've never seen Cheapbytes selling the "rawhide" version... I assume that's what this is or will become.
  • Sounds good to me! That's the best TV show on right now.
  • So what? Netscape 4.51 runs quite happily on a stock Redhat 5.2 installation. Those legacy libraries are there for a reason, namely apps that insist on using libc5.
  • They have had an unstable tree for quite a while..... Did somebody somehow miss the press releases on RawHide?
  • RedHat is using ProFTPD for their ftp server. I realize why and I have been using it for a long time as well, it is just a better, faster, more configurable server. They obviously think so, that is why their ftp site runs it. Why isn't it in their distribution. I even emailed them with this question but got no reply.....
  • That means no StarOffice. Shit. I know it's StarDivisions fault (not Red Hat's) - but when are they going to come up with a patch?
  • Why not 5.50 - the bugs in 5.10 are really irritating (in ps2pdf and when trying to create nUP printouts).
  • I _really_ hate this - how do you fix itÂ
  • Naaa, the next version should be Boomer, but they'll probably call it Buffy....
  • If you want GNU/Linux distribution based solely on quality then use Debian! Red Hat are too interested in pushing out another version out the door to roll in more cash!!!

    My experience of Red Hat has been that it SUX - plain and simple!

    Anyone in Australia who's used the Red Hat Pocket Book will understand what I'm saying here :-)
  • Cool... Red Hat made a good choice if this is really 5.9 (I haven't been able to get through yet to the site thought).

    They would be best to just ftp release 5.9 and do massive bug tracking, then _just_ bugfix for 6.0 without putting in new stuff... to speed up 6.0's release, and insure it is more stable, IMHO.

  • I know someone asked what was in it (kernel at least), I grabbed the package list [current.nu]

    for those who wanna see what is in there.

  • kdm, gdm, wdm, and all the xdm replacements are way alpha! I haven't got any of them to work at all. They all seem to work ok for normal GUI login, but none of them have a working chooser, so there is not much point in using them on a LAN.
  • Your probably missing this line in your XF86Config file:
    DefaultColorDepth 32
  • RPM directories are empty... If they started a mirror, they didn't finish it.
  • What's wdm, by the way?

    A cool looking login thing like login.app, kdm, gdm, etc... Can be found at ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/genec/ [mindspring.com]

  • "KDM works perfectly. If you can't get it working, maybe just read more manuals and howtos and don't post nonsense about the things you don't understand."

    Believe me, I understand it. It doesn't work. I have tried it, I have read the docs. Unless it's changed in the last 2 weeks, it is not finished.

    KDM works for general logins, and that's all. XDM is a tool to allow more than just general logins from localhost, it has a chooser implemntation, allows remote logins, and allows you to choose a remote host to login to also. KDM doesn't even include a chooser, and when you use -query or -indirect it cause X to respawn to the point where it could potentially distroy a monitor!

    I don't think you realize what xdm is, and what it does, and what kdm is missing. And your flame is was un-nessessary, considering you haven't looked at the man pages and how-to's yourself, becuase it's clear it's missing chooser.

    As a matter of fact KDM actually "invents" a chooser "2.2 Different window managers with kdm (chooser)" which is NOTHING to do with the actual xdm chooser! chooser allows a user to choose the SYSTEM to login to, not the window manager to be used. So, this was something where kde even went out of bounds with conventional X standards on.

    For a single un-networked system, KDM is fine I guess, but for LAN management of multiple systems, KDE isn't there yet, sorry.

  • Apart from the obvious goodies, I'm pleased to see the far superior GNU enscript replacing RedHat's traditional nenscript, and also fvwm-2.2. For those of you that abondoned fvwm for newer alternatives like AfterStep, Window Maker, BlackBox etc., I'd strongly recommend taking another look now 2.2 is out. Having tried all the alternatives (with the notable exception of Enlightenment), I'll be sticking with fvwm.

    However, the real problem is RedHat's continued neglect of DDD. Now it works with lesstif, there's simply no excuse not to include it. Yes, I know it's available on the powertools CD, but when every other conceivable development tool is shipped on the main CD, omitting a decent graphical debugger is criminal.

  • That's a negative at sunsite and at cdrom.com.
    anyone else have any better luck?


    --
    As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
  • Then we'll get Loren Greene, and then we can start on the Bonanza names.

    RH 6.2:Hoss, RH 6.5:Hop Sing


    --
    As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
  • KDE, GNOME, Windowmaker 0.51.2, 2.2.3 kernel,
    XFree86 3.3.3.1
    oh yes.
  • Mesa *would* be great.
  • Er, actually, 4.08 is available in both Communicator (web-mail-news) and Navigator (web-only) versions. I haven't yet seen a Navigator version of 4.5.
  • Clearly, this is a Battlestar Galactica reference and not a tribute to the Microsoft of coffee pushers. See, the last release was "Apollo", and he was Starbuck's buddy on the Battlestar...
  • Starbucks is great coffee for those of us who
    don't like the regular stuff. I can just taste the iced vanilla frapuccino right now...
  • I believe it's in there in anticipation of the new license. If the new Qt isn't out and working with the stable KDE release when we are ready to ship, I *believe* we will have to remove KDE.

    Basically, if there is a stable KDE release that works with a QPL released Qt, then we'll probably ship it. Otherwise, we'll have to pull it.

    I should probably verify all this before posting, but I'm pretty sure this is the state of things right now.


    --Donnie
  • "Ahab" is at least as possible as "Adama."

  • You won't regret it.

    ^A, ^E, ^P, ^N, ^K, ^F, ^B
    alt-B, alt-F
    shift-PGUP
    shift-PGDN

    That's a total of 11 commands, hardly a chore, and you will be flying around the CLI like a wizard with just those (no need to move your hands around to hit "home" or "del" keys).

    And you learn emacs to boot :-)

    Really, it's a shell thing isn't it? Why not have bash add a "PC Keyboard" key binding set, like it does for vi and emacs?

  • They send it to the mailing list, pretty funny message too, it's probably on linuxtoday.com, go read it... /Seva
  • Seems reasonably up to date; kernel 2.2.3, xfree 3.3.3.1 etc. May be worth me updating to get a "clean" linux 2 installation. I've been busily upgrading stuff (kernel, X, gnome) breaking RPM dependencies all over the shop. Telling RPM "I know better than you do" is a real PITA.
    --
  • This could also be a reference to Moby Dick, or to a certain coffee shop. Just what we need, another Starbucks !@#$#@E@#.

  • Now if I could only just ever log into ftp.redhat.com
  • I noticed the same thing, but never fear - there is a source RPM of initscripts-3.96-4.
  • What's with the netscape 4.08? 4.5's been out for quite some time...

    Otherwise, all I can say is kick-ass! new GNOME, new KDE, new e, new Windowmaker, 2.2.3 kernel... I'm going to be setting up my new machine in a week or two, and I know what distro's going on it :-)
    ----------------------

  • That wasn't really a question about whether or not netscape 4.5 is out. I know it is, because I'm using it. So to summarize:

    • Yes, all versions of netscape crash on mailto's.
    • 4.5 (and 4.08) are available in both libc5 and glibc versions. Officially the glibc version is unsupported, but it's there.
    • The libc5 version crashes if you look at it funny. Like, try loading freshmeat with it!
    • The glibc version crashes almost never.
    • Both are available as either a navigator-only or a full communicator package
    • 4.5 (even glibc) still leaks memory from the text widget, 'tis true. Don't try to write a long email in a web-based mailer!
    What my question was is, why the hell doesn't redhat have 4.5? And while they're at it, why don't they throw us a bone and include the glibc unsupported (but functional) one?!

    It's good to see GNOME and KDE together at last though :)
    ----------------------

  • Named after a coffee shop? I think not. I just assumed that it was named after the character from Battlestar Galactica.
  • I'm practically blind. I can't stand using a mouse for anything but what is absolutely required to get things done. Any release of any Linux distribution won't be on my systems if X is required for anything rudimentary. This includes package management.

    Also, the only Linux distro that has ever been clear-cut with regard to PPP for me is Slackware. I have a dynamic-IP connection to Concentric.net, and several local machines on a "domainless" network that uses the 172.17.X.X range for local addresses only. When I try to configure Red Hat for this environment, I always seem to have problems.

    When I find solutions for those two issues, I might switch from Slackware to something. At this point, it would probably be S.u.s.e because of YAST.
  • I have been to the umich site the wtfo.com site the german site and the japanese site. All of them have starbuck dirs but lack anything in the RPMS directory under i386/RedHat/

    Anyone find a full mirror site or is this gonna be like the release of 5.2, closed dirs all over the place ?
  • You need to install 5.9 so I can rewt you!
  • There are two major products to come out of Berkeley: UNIX and LSD.

    We do not believe this to be a coincidence.

    Of course it's not a coincidence! Both were produced under contract to the Defense Department.
  • Mesa, any sort of vrml, netscape 4.5, lyx, grace, ... I'm sure I can think of some more. I'm sure some of these will appear when there is support for decent hardware 3D.
  • ..if you're looking for starbuck and can't find it anywhere..

    152.2.175.120

    /pub/starbuck

    Jeff
  • I've moved my site from my main machine to my new FTP server - the new IP is 152.2.167.46

    (anonymous)

  • this only happenes with red-hat.
    Slackware or Debian and SuSE all compile fine and will allow you to compile everything well, Red-hat has been broken cince 4.1 and will continue to be that way.. If you wanna be a newbie use redhat if you want to be a power user use something else.

    Dont get me wrong, RedHat has a place, just like windows95 has a place. I just wish that redhat would have stayed with the standards instead of doing their own thing and making a distrib that wont compile 50% of the software out there. Backwards compatability is a good thing, and you dont really need to use the latest alpha libs.. wait till they are production releases and ignore the idiot programmers that publish software that requires bleeding edge libs.
  • Oh you forgot that the standard network and ppp stuff under red-hat is so stinking cryptic that you need to delete crap out of the rc.d dir's for a week to get it clean. redHat is so reliant on X for config it's not funny, but it's not designed for power users, it's designed for a desktop replacement in a computer-moron (Read NT Certified) environment.. I have yet to meet a MSCE that can use a OS that isnt point and click, so red-hat was designed to dumb down linux so MSCE's can understand it. It has it's place, it's a great product for it's place and It will do great as a workstation product. All my workstations use it, and all software is compiled on the servers (slackware of course!) to avoid the RED-HAT non reverse compatability problem
  • It would be fine if they followed a standard like slackware, debian and SuSe does...

    If 3/4 of the major distribs do it one way than doing it different is non compliant.

    I prefer to have skills that are transportable instead of being release specific... kinda like MS... noone else does it the way MS does, and redhat wants to do the same, otherwise the network admin guide would work under REDHAT
  • You mean follow Debian's example (ok... maybe not the time-frame on slink...). Debian always has the unstable tree as a "release", it just isn't publicized as much.

    --
  • Distributions are for the weak. I build everything by hand.

    Building everything by hand is great if you have to time to do it, however, it does take a lot of time that could be better used on code.
    That said, I hope RedHat gets their act together and gets back on the quality train. While they aren't the only distribution, they do tend to be the most visible (and the one that gets picked on), so for them to lax in quality is really a hit for everyone.

    --

  • i've found it's generally more than 2-3%. Also, it can speed up more than just the kernel. I know my copy of snes9x that I compiled w/ -O9 -mcpu=pentiumpro -march=pentiumpro had sigificant speed improvements, about 20fps. (I went from about 35fps to 55fps, that's a nice speed increase).
  • ftp://ftp.wtfo.com/pub/linux/redhat/ftp.redhat.com /starbuck
  • Was KDE out of redhat becuase it Qt wasn't open source, or becuase it was incompatible with the GPL?
  • It does not crash on "any sort of Java". I'm using it right now. It does crash, but it's certainly usable, and lots of java stuff works fine. It crashes less than Windoze does.
  • With a name like Starbuck, I assume this release includes a JVM?

    Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity

  • Anyone know if this will be offered on CD either by Redhat or someplace like cheapbytes?
    ------------------------------------- ---------------
    Jamin Philip Gray
    jgray@writeme.com
    http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~jpg2/
  • Put this in your ~/.inputrc and restart bash:

    $if term=xterm
    "\C-?": delete-char # xterm delete
    "\e[\C-@": beginning-of-line # xterm home
    "\e[e": end-of-line # xterm end
    $else
    "\e[3~": delete-char # linux delete
    "\e[1~": beginning-of-line # linux home
    "\e[4~": end-of-line # linux end
    $endif
  • Nothing more to say.
    You must admit redhat is quite popular,
    This one is defenetly a killer.

    GNOME, KDE, Linux 2.2.3, glibc 2.1...
    This is revolution, baby,
    not just bugfixes (planned for 6.0, heheh)

    Hopefully,
    A nice X installer will do everything for you.

    and, a question,
    what about upgrades from 5.2?
    I never upgraded a RedHat Linux,
    and I do have many of the packages listed
    (but I compiled them myself)
    Will the upgrade fuck it?
    should I just copy all my stuff and make a nice clean one?

    and another question,
    I have a PC with unsuppored videocard,
    will it be possible to use fbcon X without tweaking? I tweaked my PC enough and it just refuses to work properly.


    ---
  • It's because of the QPL,
    the reason that they didnt put it in 5.2 is lisencing problems.
    But since TrollTech/Qt is now QPL'd it gives redhat an excuse to put KDE in it.

    and ofcourse,
    sales is important too.
    (though I do not understand why putting kde when gnome is done and autoinstalled by default)


    ---
  • Well, about XF86Setup,
    it's just not friendly enough,
    and I rather edit the X config file myself.
    but I do like that stuff work out of the box,
    recompiling kernel/editing manualy is not fun.

    ezLinux is:
    1. beta.
    2. CLOSED SOURCE (not the kernel, but you get my point)
    3. IS NOT AVAILIBLE FOR FREE DOWNLOAD
    4. CANNOT BE FREELY DISTRIBUTED
    5. uses kde (i like gnome, do i have a choice - no)
    6. a copy of M$ Wind-ooz (registry???)
    7. many other bad things.

    It's the non-linux.
    unfortunatly, since I'm not familiar with any other frienly installers,
    I cannot recommend a better linux for my friends.
    Thats why I hope redhat will have GUI installer,
    and even more, that debian will have one.

    I have not updated everything,
    but i do like to be cutting edge (I have the new kernel, cvs gnome)

    I'm scared that the rpm's will have problems.
    I had such problems before (with gtk)
    rpm wont overwrite current libraries,
    and some rpm dependent on the library will not install,
    some will install but won't work properly.

    I think I'll keep this machine running 5.2 (argh)
    and save my newer machine for 6.0


    ---
  • were going to see the boys at Redhat labs go. sorry kde is policatly licesned wrong but were still going to go ahead and kill the other Distros cause we cant get off our ass and get GNOME working...


    btw anonymous female if your reading this then you should know your like my dram girl and stuff
  • Let's leave Cylon to the Microsoft distro... Chris
  • I'd love to see this kind of attitude succeed in a corporate IT environment *not*

    "well, sir, I know you told me to install AIX 4.2 weeks ago...but that's a lame idea, so I'm doing it MY way"

    heh

  • "Patch" in StarDivisionese = "another 70M download"

    -tak
  • Redhat folks are sendind it out... LSL said about 2 wks.
  • The thing is, using the Aladdin License definition of "proprietary", Netscape is proprietary (and I believe Netscape 5.0 will also be, considering the mail stuff is still closed due to some weird issues). We DO use Netscape.
  • All of You ! Stop trying connecting into RedHat !
    Let me in instead... ;-p
  • Does anyone know if you get GNOME by default
    rather than that wretched Win95-alike thing
    of 5.2 ?
  • Since the last one was Apollo?

    Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?

    Watch 6.0 be Boomer or Adama or something.

  • Well, this is exactly the type of thing
    RH needs to hear before they make it the official 6.0 release. Tell 'em "YOU FORGOT THIS! DUH!" and they may just go, "oh YEAH! What were we thinking?" And put it in there.

    Who knows, there may be a legit reason it's not there.
    Put DOOM Back in! Put DOOM Back in! *snicker*
  • I know it's not a mirror, per se, but if anyone is looking for the glibc 2.1 RPMs you can get them here:

    http://www.27.org/linux/redhat/glibc2.1/

    -B
  • Is it just me or does this sound a lot like Starbucks the coffeshop. Do you think they could get sued for copyright infringment. I mean both companies deal with Java. Plus what reference could they have been making, what other Starbucks is there.
  • "It also has nothing to do w/ coffee. :) "
    Well, like I said before it they both serve
    "Java" :)!


  • check http://www.redhat.com/mirrors.html

    everyone of those mirrors I've checked has it.
  • http://www.redhat.com/mirrors.html

    Every one of those I've checked has mirrors of Starbuck.

    Just for informational sake for all the people who actually think they could EVER get into ftp.redhat.com. That site is so slow and so busy its not even funny.

  • I'm in there right now, and these are the big things I see right now. I am gonna reply to this message with a directory listing of the RPMS so that it's not on the main page
  • Haha. Kinda silly, dontcha think? That the whole rest of the website doesn't mention it at all. But there it is, right on the main page in the little Slashdot segment.
  • Didn't read any classics in high school, eh? Starbuck is the first mate in the novel "Moby Dick", written long before the coffee chain popped up everywhere. I think Starbucks the coffee company might have a hard time if they wanted to get annoyed at RH over this.

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