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Berst Calls Linux a Bad Bet 167

Posted by CmdrTaco from the sounds-of-fud dept.
abcess writes "Here's a link to the story. link It seems to me like they're starting to try the same stuff they did when other OSes started challenging MS, saying good stuff about them, but then saying, 'but they really have no chance'. "
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Berst Calls Linux a Bad Bet More

Berst Calls Linux a Bad Bet

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  • ZD has been bad forever -- the first I can remember is their absolutely glowing reports about Windows, buying into every single piece of MS fud, starting way back in the early part of this decade. Glowing reports on Windows 4.0 (which eventually became 95) began being issued in early 1994 from PC Magazine. ZD ought to have been bought and renamed Microsoft Press at the time, except that I'm sure they were bought under the table. From the tip of the iceberg of MS PR deals, the things that did come out, such as MS PR people writing bogus letters to the editor, MS telling employees to spout MS glory in open forums, MS acting to squelch information and competitors I'm sure that the #1 PC-oriented glossy rags were their first takeover target. Screw those people -- don't give them the hits.
  • This guy just reeks of Microsoft. Enter his name in AltaVista's photo search for a few pics of him before he got his "new look".
  • What Berst doesn't understand is that because of the free nature of Linux, while it may lose popularity it can never "die". If Microsoft were to close up shop tomorrow (we can dream, can't we?) quite a lot of Windows users would be left out in the cold. If Linus were to quit and Red Hat and Caldera and S.u.S.E. and VA Research and Pacific HiTech etc. were to close up shop tomorrow you would STILL have the source code and the Internet to fall back on. It's the nature of the system - there is a build-in safty net in having the source code out there. Berst is backpedaling a bit from "Why you should use Linux", which does go to show that he's willing to say whatever the mood of the moment encourages - perhaps this high and beautiful wave in popularity Linux is experiencing is beginning to see some backlash. There are certainly plenty of entrenched IT guys that have a vested interest in NOT seeing Linux take off.. "I'm sorry, this is a Linux shop. Your Windows NT skills are not needed. NEXT!"
  • Notice how they keep Berst tucked away on the web. Print mags still look at the web as being where they can dump shit and nobody'll notice it, or if they do they won't be expecting much.

    Normally I'd slam ZD here, but we just got ZDTV and they've actually got some Linux devotees. In fact, I saw a show a few weeks back where they ran through the install process(!) on the Screen Savers. They talk about Linux all the time, had Gasse on last night... ZD finally doing something right.

    Off subject, but join the people who will never trust Toshiba again since they won't uphold their basic contractual obligations (re: EULA) here: http://acm.cs.uwec.edu/~mizesh/openletter.html [uwec.edu]

    ----

  • I'm a Mac tech, and I am going in to work today to upgrade a machine for a client. This woman has given us so much grief it's absurd- she is aggressively dumb- brings in computer without modem to have its Email setup looked at. Then brings in just the modem without the very weird cable it uses, or the power adapter- all the time getting madder and madder at _US_.
    This woman cannot set up a Mac. Will not even try. That is why I would like to be able to give her a Linux box so totally transformed into a kiosk that it can only check Email. Done properly, she'd never return with a problem! (well, one can dream). Who says linux is only for techies? It might just be the idea platform for setting up luser-kiosks so people with no clue can still check their email without ever dealing with computer issues. Such a kiosk would have to be inflexible, preconfigured on controlled hardware, and cheap. I could see Netwinders finding an extra market just as this sort of kiosk, once you got rid of all the configurability. Set it up so unless you hold down magic keys, like you do to get into Open Firmware, it always boots to the handholding, no-options mode. The special key combo gets you to bash or something, so the admin can do the one-time setup. Hell, you could have it boot specially off a CD so the important stuff would be read-only! It could have just a CD-Rom and a floppy to hold the prefs, no HD! (that might also make it very quiet and nice to live with).
    I want one of _those_ for my customer from hell. Not a Mac (too flexible!) not Linux proper (bwahahaha) not Windows (also bwahahaha, but more of a pain). But what I want could and would be _based_ on Linux.
  • More accurately, it is the technical elite that keep the computers working for the masses, rather like janitors (says Chris, putting off heading to work for more keep-computers-working duties and longing for a linux internet kiosk- hell, I'm gonna do an essay just about that, explore how it could be done)
    If the geeks say something is a technical disaster, know what that means? If they quit working like dogs to keep it running, it'll just fscking fall apart. Well, that's Windows (and to some extent the PC). And everybody knows it. But everybody assumes _WE!_ are just going to keep propping it up forever...
    Look, people, if Windows loses the huge masses of geeks out there patiently reinstalling it for people and wrestling with demented wizards, it will _die_ because it will _choke_ on its own technical problems. It relies on people being willing to pick up after it. I'm losing patience with this- and with the assumption that of course the technical elite is best used as janitors to clean up messes made by Microsoft, served to uneducated customers, and arrogantly dumped all over the place in big piles of steaming lossage.
    We will never do ourselves out of jobs, because there is _always_ a place for people who put extra effort into thinking, designing, coding. Most people don't do that, they pay others to think.
    So we might as well think in terms of: how can we build plug-in and go Emailboxes and the like, WebTV only from linux, for all the people who can't or won't be technically competent? I always say these people are Microsoft's rightful property- but if that assumes that _I_ will always be available for tech support duties, I am strongly tempted to quit that job which I never agreed to take on! And that goes double for the more seriously PC-supporting techs at the shop I work at: they're awful tired of dealing with the crap.
    Think about it. What would happen if Microsoft _did_ have to deal with cleaning up their own messes? If only MCSEs were willing to reinstall Windows all the time, or deal with issues? If all the overworked technical elite low-status geeks just quit dealing with Windows? A disaster area, that's what- Microsoft do not _educate_ their people to repair Windows effectively, but to advocate and sell it effectively, even if that means becoming certified by parroting marketingnuggets that actually do not work in practice, but sound good! (see the O'Reilly book, or genuine NT experts with hands-on experience).
    Let's move in the direction of cutting them loose to fend for themselves, shall we? HOW MANY of you put in paid or unpaid time to _support_ Microsoft products because your own friends, family or workplace uses them? You are irreplaceable support for Microsoft when you do this. Stop doing it >;)
  • I say this because... I've yet to see anything substantial come from J. Berst except rumors, naysaying and retractions.

    HOWEVER, I have seen much positive coverage of the Linux phenomenon from ZDNet. They are really beginning to understand Linux.

    Give credit where credit is due says I! Needless to say, J. Berst has a bad credit report these days. :(
  • Posted by Nino the Mind Boggler:

    I must have missed that bit.

    Seems to me he was saying "Use your head, not anti-MS fanaticism when placing your bet." That, and it's too early to tell if Linux will supplant NT.

    It also seems to me that some /.ers automatically assume that if Berst writes _anything_, it's automatically bad. Can you say prejudice?

  • Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:

    Linux will either destroy ms, or at the worst just continue in a relative fringe the way it is now. It can't fail because it is not run by corporations. Does Linus or the kernel devel team care if Berst invests $50g in redhat? No. No one does. If redhat becomes the #1 software company linux will continue. If every linux dist. company dies tomorrow, linux will continue. If Linus and co. dies, linux will continue. There is no stopping it!
  • Posted by Russ McD.:

    Ghandi once said:
    "First they ignore you.
    Then they laugh at you.
    Then they fight you.
    Then you win."
  • Posted by patg:

    Wake up and smell the Linux!!!!
  • Please just stop posting his crap. What makes him important anyway?

  • 1. Write an obviously flawaed and ignorant
    editorial about Linux.

    2. Send a link to editorial to the Slashdot
    submissions page.

    3. Sit back and wait for the angry to come
    through and watch your site traffic go through
    the roof.

    4. Tell your advertisers that your site is
    frequently visited by thousands of Linux
    users and other IT professionsals.


    That's right folks, keep click on those ZDNet
    links so they can laugh their way to the
    bank.

  • I think if Rob can somehow combine Jesse Berst, KDE, and religion into a single story we can break the 500-post barrier!

    TedC

  • Shouldn't that be "Jesse Berst Sucks/This Poll Sucks/ZDNet Sucks."

  • For an explanation of this phenomenon have a look at this advertisement [stone-dead.asn.au] from a Monty Python book.

  • I tend to agree. He was saying not to go with
    hype and emotions, to carefully, rationally choose what's best. Nothing wrong with that.

  • The survey of the Linux kernel developers (why in the hell would they lie about their age)?

    Perhaps you mean the "sizing the Linux market" survey? Yeah, it's guess work, but fairly reliable. Of course, you don't have any way to refute the stats, huh?

  • no, it didnt... remove the "him and" from the sentence and see if it still makes sense, that is the acid test.

    "Dad ran out of the house to get [him and] me."

    do you often say
    "Dad ran out of the house to get I"? I hope not.
  • It seems like the /. readership has to re-learn this "hard lesson" about Jesse Berst about every 6 months or so.

    Don't feed the bears.
  • If some business does attempt to fork the kernel, I'm sure the community will respond with 'extreme prejudice' to that organization.

    This is one of the things that bothers me from time to time about Linux becoming more mainstream. Right now this is impossible, but as the non-technical user base of Linux grows, more and more people will be willing to use what's popular, no matter the technical difficulties with it. (they probably use Windows already) Heck, look at the 60% (?) of the market that RedHat already has; I can imagine them having enough market leverage to fork things in a year or two. Even unintentionally. (for example, IIRC the __register_frame_info bug in RedHat currently renders it incompatible with distros that have fixed the problem)

    Daniel
  • "Jesse Berst's AnchorDesk: Your source for tech ignorance"...

    ^D

  • Yet some PC users are making similarly outrageous wagers on Linux, the underdog in the operating-system wars.

    Who exactly are these users and how are they going to be hurt? The only people that could get hurt are those providing services, not the average user.

    Perhaps he's talking about business users who require the support of Oracle etc... But it is pure FUD to suggest that good companies like Sun (Which still supports SunOS 4) and Oracle would renege on their customer commitments.

    It is true that the vendors may have reason to be cautious, but the user...hardly/p?

  • Oh yes, everybody at Ziff Davis are all in collusion on this! They're trying to get the hopes of the Linux geeks up, and then they dash them against the rocks!

    Oh get a grip. There are several dozen different reporters and opinion writers and each one is going to have something different to say.

  • its funny, he relates it to OS/2 and Macs, saying Macs became a proprietary backwater and OS/2 died out. But what he doesn't realize is that the source is out there. Once its out there, you can't stop it.
  • Jesse says
    "Bet Lightly on Hot OS"
    says betting on it is like 100-1
    says "people bet on the underdog. Many lost their shirts."

    Tell me how "Linux is a Bad Bet" is an irrational summary of these statments.

    Note: there is a limit as to keep the title brief.

    He (I'm assuming) decided to summarize the article's content. I guess he wasn't up to your standard. Please forgive the erroneous error that has caused you grave harm and distress.

    Then...get over it!!!
  • :-)






    Just kidding!

    Sorry guys I just couldn't resist. I am bored. Berst is just looking for a story and nothing else so don't worry. Berst is a journalist and not a computer consultant. Go ask a few microsoft loyalists what they think of zdnet and Berst and they will tell you the same things that linux users say. Just ignore him guys. He has no crediblity in either os camps. The article mentioned that you should not select linux for emotional reasons but rather technical. He is right. Linux still has major scalability problems with 4 or more processors compared to other unix's. Also NT is great for the computer novices with tiny networks because its quick to setup and easy to administer. Linux would drive a non computer nut crazy. I use linux at home but I avoid it at work and use solaris or aix. Linux 2.2 is alot better with 2-4 processors but it is still behind solaris and aix and the performance of linux is very far behind solaris in 4-10 cpu systems. I think linux is great as a cheap alternative to home users and college students but to a bussiness the price difference between linux and solaris is peanuts. Bussiness's dont buy software but solutions that may include software. Computers earn money and dont save money to them. If i am working on a project to save 750,000$, the price of the os in the server is peanuts and solaris is my choice. Face it guys. If money was no object, would you use linux? Berst was not talking about NT but rather other unix solutions. relax!
  • Read this http://www.zdnet.com/enterprise/linux/opinion/0,59 54,2216064,00.html .

    This article tries to show that linux is as split up as unix. It also shows that the distributions are incompadible with each other and that its a big headache because no one company owns it.

    Microsoft marketing department: Thank you! Here is your check. Good work!
  • ZD isn't stupid. Berst is, but the editors aren't. OK, maybe they are.

    But they do know that Microsoft pays for advertising in their crapola magazines and Linux doesn't. Linux rage (in their estimation) is getting out of their control, and they're trying to rein it in to secure their profit base, pure and simple.


    --
  • "Linux == Microsoft killer" leads at 38%


    --
  • A horde of enthusiasts is hard to ignore. Every poll they have had has been slammed 2:1 for Linux and against Microsoft.

    You think people don't pay attention to these numbers? You think pretty polls might have something to do with all the high-end product offerings we've been graced with this year?
    I do. And every new product boosts the penguin in people's estimations, which leads to more confidence, which leads to more followers, which leads to more skewed polls.

    Toiling on code is of course central, but for every developer there are 500 user-enthusiasts who have the function of getting us attention. And attention is good.


    --
  • of course most Linuxites are 16-years old with absolutely no revenue

    There were a few polls about this a while back that contradict this claim. Also I'm twice that age making twice the average family income. Not that age matters. I wish I was 16 again learning with Linux and having to relearn everything in a way that will not be outdated 3 or 30 years from now.

  • "Jesse Berst is an ass"

    At least Rob has a sense of humor and is humble enough to put something like that on /. polls. The usual 10% minority seem to vote in that slot. If Mr. Berst had this selection, his job would be up for review very soon and MS stock could not save him. hehehehee!!!

  • If any other journalist in the world wrote this, I'd be far more concerned. And I do mean ANY. Even, say, the guy who wrote the Y2K article for the Weekly World News. Or the advice columnist for some porn magazine.

    But time and time again, Jesse Berst has demonstrated that he clearly wouldn't know a clue if it sneaked up on him and chomped his naughty bits. He's simply incapable of comprehending the idea that Microsoft could do any wrong, or that anyone else could do any right.

    Months ago, I tired of amusing myself with mental games like "what color is the sky in Jesse's world?" and "how many suns are there in Jesse's sky?" Since then, whenever I configure any sort of news-handling software, I explicitly tell it to ignore anything from him.

    He's just not living in the same reality as the rest of us - even the other journalists. He makes points by fiat, and fails to note that virtually everything negative he says about whatever product is competing with Microsoft is usually at least equally true of Microsoft's own products.
  • Not flaming or praising this dude (although he has a tendency to make me shake my head in disbelief....), but does anyone know this clown's background? Or is he just "lucky" enough to have landed a spot as a journalist in an IT trade mag?
  • Notice the selections on their reader poll:

    1. Destined to be a Microsoft killer
    2. Small chink in Microsoft's armor
    3. Plaything for techies
    4. Better OS/2 than OS/2
    5. Not sure

    Note the large difference between 1 and 2. So we have to decide if it's a "killer" or a "small chink"? This is a common pollster's tactic. Moderate thinkers (like myself) might not think that Linux will be a "killer," but might coexist with Microsoft. Thus, moderates might be pushed towards the "small chink" response, which is worded favorably for Microsoft.

    Beware statistics FUD! It's the worst of them all...
  • There is also a poll there - anyone feel like slashdotting the results? :-D
  • I agree with you. Although Berst has no clue other than the "point-and-click" mentality, he does have apoint about Linux breaking into factions. People who use and love Linux now don't care that much about different varieties - it just gives us more choice. Also, most Linux users know how to customize it to our needs already. However, business and end-users want someting they know will work (which still amazes me because Windows rarely does) and something they do not have to maintain (they just want tech support :). If there are 4 or 5 Linux factions out there and not all are compatible with each other, then the Linux world is going to be in lots of trouble.

    If people just keep a clear head and apply some reasoning, this sort of thing will not happen. I know one thing - I haven't "pledged allegiance" to any distribution and I probably never will. I just like Linux.
  • The Mac could have won -- if Apple had licensed the OS. Instead, it faced an insurmountable price disadvantage.

    OS/2 could have won -- if it hadn't required 3 times the amount of RAM as Win 3 and hadn't supported Win3 so well that there was no point to writing OS/2 apps.

    Java could have won -- if anybody could figure out how to write a commercial-grade app in it.

    Unix unification was never a threat to anything but NT -- nobody was going to cut their prices enough to compete with Win9X.

    Linux doesn't risk any of those pitfalls. It has others, but the GPL preserves it from institutional lapses and the Open Source development model will help it overcome technical threats.

  • The man is partly right. Linux is not going to kill Microsoft. A combination of Linux, Java, a general movement towards open-source, and shifts in the market might do.

    He is also right that noone should spend 50000 on Linux just to be on the bandwagon. It has to be part of a coherent strategy. You can say just the same for any OS. First find out what you want, then decide what to buy.

    I find the total fanaticism of some Linux users both disturbing, and embarassing when I have to tell other people what I use.

  • I wasn't betting that Linux would kill Microsoft - I was betting that Linux would fulfill my computing needs, now and in the future. Even if none of the promised software support comes from the major companies, such as IBM, I will still have won.

    As to Microsoft, they will ultimately die of their own poison and lies.
  • listen to what Brest is saying, let's do not try to automaticly classify it FUD.
    what he is saying is that people should consider Linux, but not to run Linux just because everybody do.
    Maybe as a linux fan i don't like to hear it, but there is something in what he is saying.
  • Berst just wanted the /. effect...
    Here's the latest ZD Usurption: ZDTV's LinuxSuperguide... [newsalert.com]
    Remember Paul Allen recently plopped down a $54,000,000 investment in ZDTV via his Vulcan Ventures which makes him a one-third investor...ZDTV is expected to reach 9 million homes by the end of the year and what better way to cash in on Open Source and Linux then to coax the /. effect to the TV...
    Hmmm....
  • That Jesse always pulls this typical hit-and-run style of journalism when he needs to draw hits to his banner ads for his column?

    That is the long and short of it folks...

    Not to mention that ZD-Net is owned by SoftBank, the same SoftBank who provides technical support for almost all of Microsoft products....

    So much for journalistic integrity..although ZD-Net isn't taken seriously by anone in IT anyway...

    Nicholas Donovan
    Linux Systems Group

  • And despite the enthusiasm for Linux' open-source concept, it carries the danger that Linux will be fragmented, just like the Unix effort of past years.


    Windows 3.11 (yes people use this)
    Windows 95/98
    Windows NT 3.51
    Windows NT 4.0
    Windows 2000
    Windows CE
    Windows CE
    Windows CE (have to repeat, how many versions of CE?)

    Fragmented, eh?


  • They missed "all of the above". Gamers will continue to buy PC's for a long time. It amounts to utter destruction of Microsoft in many server markets (compare ISP's running Linux to ones running NT). So far that's added up to a small chink. It's a plaything too, but particle accellerators are serious machines that are playthings for physicists. I dunno what to make of the OS/2 argument but I suppose I can buy it given IBM's buy-in now.
  • Berst just like posting mildly inflammatory articles that look quite controversial, so that his page gets slashdotted . Good hitcounts, lots of readers == success. Remember "fired for choosing linux" ? this article on careful reading was more of an insult to the pointy-haired bosses of the world, than it was to linux, but after reasoning in a fairly sensible manner, he came to some fairly silly conclusions. This article is quiet similar: balanced and sensible reasoning, but meanwhile, he is trying to make his *conclusion* sound "extreme" so that he can make all the linux users mad.

    Jesse IMO is a very smart man. Sometimes, he "plays dumb", if he thinks that will enhance his hit count. Read the article carefully and you'll see that it (mostly) makes a lot of sense, though the title and some of the conclusions are designed to grab attention.

    Watch ZDnet get slashdotted. On hits, this article was an outstanding success. Suckers.
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi

  • Umm, Just becuase Windows and NT dominate the market place, it in no way means they are better or even good. It simply means that Microsoft has a monoply over OS's (right now). out of the few ISP's around here, a couple use Linux/BSD and a few use NT... The NT managed ISP's all suck rocks, but I never have any problems with my ISP that runs everything on Linux.

    Its funny how people can take the fact that NT is on more computers to somehow mean it is automatically better then anything else..
  • There's a lot of FUD there. I think Berst does make one good point- factionalism. I'd hate to see Linux go the way of the pretty recent *nix seperatism (SCO, BSD, etc.) The reliance on a central kernel which cannot be modified privately cuts down on this, but really.... how long before we've got a RedHat kernel against a Debianized kernel against S.U.S.E. with an exclusive license to Netscape 2000 or some such nonsense? It's not inconceivable... until people start suing each other over breaking the GPL instead of just badmouthing violations...
  • That's exactly what I was thinking! One column he comes foresquare on the side of Linux ... the next he treats it like rat poison!

    D
  • 40% when i checked it last...let's go for 50!
  • most everyone posting a flame against Berst here needs a reality check. how defensive is the linux community?! sheesh... he's not attacking linux, only saying don't go for linux because of, e.g., redhat's hype... i'd rather have companies switching to linux because it's the far better alternative... not because it's "hip" or because redhat sounds kewl...
    *bow*

    the ultimate combo: tux and the chameleon
  • Now, before you Linux-lovers whip out your flame throwers, let me say this: I like Linux. Microsoft needs all the competition it can get. Linux is good for consumers. Can you support an OS just because somebody else needs competition? The guy has no idea what the real benefits of Linux are...
  • There is FUD here I agree. The guy is just missing the point. Linux has not been designed to kill M$ like OS2 or Jabba. And this is what makes it viable. You cannot be viable with a negative stand...

    At the same time using Linux or FreeBSD or whatever other FreeOS means simply that part of the money that would be payed into M$ pocket will be payed for somebodys brain to maintain the stuff. If it comes cheaper good. If it comes more expensive - bad (pure business common sense).

    So overall the guy has hit the point partially:
    5$ - cool
    50,000 - bad (this compares to a single salary).

    He simply forgot the next step called 500,000$ ... This amount of money justifies paying 100,000$ for a brain. And this is the main problem in this article. No idea if this omission is intentional or not... Most likely it is...

  • The focus here is all wrong. The linux community is whole heartedly behind Linux and push it for all it's strengths. However it's biggest strength for the server environment is it's largest weakness in the desktop arena. The average computer user has a hard time groking that they have two mouse buttons that do two different things, they aren't ready to edit any config files, let alone dip into some source code and debug it...

    Where linux shines, and shines well is the Server environment. The company I work for used to have 2 novell servers and 2 NT servers. We currently have one NT server left and it is slated to be nuked and Linuxed soon. We left NT due to it's high cost, poor reliability and poor performance.

    Jesse is right in one aspect, Betting on Linux to kill MS is not going to happen, MS is doing that themselves, I think that Linux is simply going to step forth and shine like it can, right into the shoes NT was trying to fill (and failing as NT was).

    I personally threw together a webserver box in a little less than an hour, I had no problems getting this done and only had to re-boot once, all these little factors show and the IT Proffessionals will (have) see (seen) this and Linux will prosper.

    Zanthor
    http://www.tibbs.net (Don't bother, it's empty, I still gotta put SOME content there...)
  • Ignore the press, good and bad. It's all FUD one way or the other. Focus on the code, focus on the goal. Work to better your understanding of Linux and its many tools. Keep a cool head, avoid flames, and Just Do It :) Don't let the media play you for a fool. Don't let them control your emotions.
  • Another day, another heaping hunk of smeg from Ziff-Davis. Yawn. As I mentioned before, I've loathed Ziff-Davis ever since they bought and folded Creative Computing (remember them? the very first computer magazine ever?). They understand nothing but greed, and never will understand anything else. The only thing we should do is point and laugh at them.
  • Yes, IT professionals should base their OS decisions on technical merit rather than popularity. Unfortunately, they usually don't; after all, how do you think they got into the Windows NT mess in the first place?
  • Just to back up your case.
    I work for IBM, in the IGS dev dep.
    IBM is only supporting OS/2 for germany, go figure it took off there.. No New dev products on os/2, instead everything is being ported to NT, and everything more then 4 years out for release ported to linux.

  • Heh. (Score:1)

    by jwriney ( 16598 )
    I never meet a single one, and I know a lot of Linux users.

    Well, my name's John, nice to meet you.

    See there? You just met one.

    --jwriney
    John Riney III
    jwriney@awod.com
  • Berst is just too consistent as a Microsoft booster. I've read his badmouthing of MacOS and OS/2, and now this unwarrented attack on Linux. He's got to be taking MS money, either behind Znet's back or with its cooperation. It seems to me that reporters have gotten in a lot of trouble for this sort of thing. Is there anybody out there in a position to look into this?

  • It was Berst, not Petreley. Petreley has actually had some interesting things to say about Linux and OSS/Free Software. Not that I necessarily agree with him, but he at least appears to think things through a bit.

    ZD makes money from advertising. Micros~1 advertises a lot. Who would bite the hand that feeds them. I used to enjoy PC Magazine, but I know I was reading Windows journal. As far as credibility, I think it is difficult in general to trust the ad-based commercial media. ZD, Berst, Dvorak, et al included

    Jason Dufair
    "Those who know don't have the words to tell

  • Check out the results page [zdnet.com] of the poll and hit reload a few times... The first option is soaring :-)

  • Don't check out the comments at the bottom. Suffice to say that the large majority are saying that the article is crap.

    Of course, I went over there before reading the comments here about how this is all a plot to get ZDNet hits.
  • Yep, I don't see the problem with this article either. I once cheered for the Amiga platform, but abandoned it in favor of x86 PC's long before the commodore went out of business. There is not point in putting your money and spirit on a _dead_ horse.

    Linux on the other hand is far from dead, but from a corporate perspective it is definitely an outsider! Sadly, the concept of denial is not too alien to a lot of linux supporters. One should hope they grow out of their infancy soon - they represent a tarnished spot on an otherwise great OS and community.

    Just my $.02
  • What I love about this is the blatant way they destroy their own, ah, credibility:
    "Despite this progress, Linux still has weaknesses and dangers, as we've pointed out in the past. Click for more."

    So you click for more. And all you get, all you find is the same *claim* repeated over again that there are "more" problems besides the claim that it's a problem that there's no "commercial entity" to turn to for support (itself a false claim to begin with, persuading no one).

    Digging their own grave.
  • OH yes, this is certainly true. I just love when the same says different things in the same article! "I like linux, linux is good." "Don't use it." Huh?

    I see him saying more of "I like Linux, Linux is good, but if you want to cover your ass, think really hard and carefully before deploying it at your workplace (or being the one to recommend deploying it there)."

    Which, much as we may dislike it, actually makes sense. If you work for a boring corporate monolith or a pointy-haired individual, making a recommendation for a change is putting your ass on the line. If anything goes wrong with it, or the higher-ups just aren't satisfied with it, you could be in trouble.

    Most people really like to avoid trouble.

    And yes, it's really easy to say, "these folks should get better jobs", but that isn't always an option for them. For someone who wants to try to get Linux in place at their workplace but is worried about financial security, Berst's comments are relevant.

  • In the both cases, you spend money for hardware and the labor to set it up and install clients on PCs.

    In the Linux case that's all you spend.

    And actually, in the Linux case you can spend a little less on the hardware, since Linux will handle quite a bit more mail traffic per unit time than NT will. This is one of the problems that keeps bedeviling Hotmail -- Microsoft keeps hassling them to make it work on NT (instead of, I think, Solaris, which was in place before they got bought by MS). Every time they try NT again, Hotmail performance drops through the floor again.

    I'm on a mailing list for Qmail (a sendmail replacement/competitor/alternative), and every so often we get a bunch of questions about "is there something wrong with my mail queue? There are lots of messages stacked up and undeliverable." Then it turns out they're all destined for Hotmail.

  • Micro is going to be dethroned, and while it probably won't die out completly, it will fade from its behemouth status sometime in the future. That will require another OS to take the place of windoze. Whether it is linux or something else remains to be seen, but there is much that can be said about the open-source movement and the tremendous development base that Linux has. Thus guy sounds like his greed is enough to keep as part of "The Machine."
    -davek
  • Jesse seems to have missed the point rather badly, which is suprising in that he made the point quite eloquently previously.

    That is, you use the right tool for the right job. Jesse seems to miss this point when he recommends MSFT over Linux, as he argues that it really cannot win.

    His arguement is chock full of reasoning by incorrect analogies and many other well known logical fallicies. Well, I guess this is to be anticipated, as there is no linux gravy train for journalists...

    Seriously, if Jesse wants support for Linux, my company would happily sell it to him, as would a number of others. Single point of contact, multibillion dollar corporation that will not be going away any time soon.

    One shouldn't make decisions with their heart, as he did (or wallet?). The decision needs to be based upon sound reasonable practices and information. With that in mind, there is little reason to deploy an NT server, where a less expensive to implement and maintain, and more stable Linux platform would do a better job. The same is true on the desktop.

    Joe

  • Seeing how the media is, I am not suprised. It's probably not Microsoft at all, just the media needs something to talk about. Besides, HE who has the power and money talks in the papers.
  • a) It'll never work.
    b) It might work but no-one would want to do it.
    c) OK, someone might want to do it, but they'll be
    sorry.
    d) I always said it was a good idea.

    I think we've reached (c) - just one more to go!
  • Looks like linux is doing just fine.

    First they ignore you
    Then they laugh at you
    Then they fight you
    Then you win.

    Or--
    Linux who?
    Not a chance.
    Well, maybe someday.
    I knew it all along.
  • I'm sick of Berst's cheap attention grabbing headlines.. certainly gets a few responses here.. but I suggest people unsubscibe to the newletter / forget the site altogether and read some quality!

    Past rubbish includes.. 'Is Java dead?' etc etc... The Fleet Street of online IT media..

  • Ok...so the buisness men who don't know shit about shit about shit about computers come out and say "oh no! never as popular as windows!" WHO CARES!? What these people fail to remember is that people our age want to be k-r4d h4x0r5...and how you gonna gain the respect of your peers? Run linux and only linux. These kids will be the sysop's and developers of the future...they will run linux..not windows...so basically...the next generation of computer users will help linux replace windows...and the companies they work for will have to adjust! sp0rk!
  • I have been waiting for this to start. Microsoft has a lot of friends in the Computer Media as a result of the enormous wealth they have spread around. (And don't forget it was OUR money.) Do you really believe that the media will embrace a platform that might leave them paupers? Ask yourself who will win and who will lose if Linux market share shoots up to 50 percent? OS/2 and Mac have been the target of very effective FUD for years. Linux will be too.
  • >So Buddha walks into a pizza parlor and says:
    >"Hey, make me one with everything."

    Then Buddha pays with a $20 bill, but gets no change back. Buddha asks for his change and the pizza dude replies:

    "Change comes from within."
  • i really don't care, i know that my system runs like a dream (which is what linux is), it was so hilarious, i was in a computer lab this morning, this girl beside me was in windows, and it crashed twice, in just 15 minutes. One time it was because "Windows is out of virtual memory!" and who knows the other time it just blue screened and then she reboot. All she was doing was viewing websites in MS IE. If people want to use an OS that crashes, i don't care, i know i've got the best one, i guess they just like their crashes and half-assed control over their computer with a PoInT aNd ClIcK oS.
    my 3 cents is better than your 2 cents.

  • FUD (Score:1)

    by bitwize ( 137998 )
    One of the rules used by Mac fanatics in their arguments is that a person or institution has no credibility unless and until they praise the Mac. For example, PC Week is a biased publication that sold out to the PC crowd where as macspeedzone.com is honest, fair, and rational.

    The above post seems to apply that rule to Linux as well.

    Linux is a great OS. But due to its hacker-oriented nature I don't see it becoming a cookie-cutter-clone, "it just works out-of-the-box" type of deal any time soon. It's like a box of Legos that YOU have to shape into whatever suits you best, not a pre-assembled gimmick. People with ingenuity and a sense of wonder will be drawn to it. People who just want to shop online or do basic word processing and stuff like that will be repulsed by it. Linux has a market segment that it appeals to. (I won't say "niche" because it marginalizes it; Linux could easily appeal to more than just your typical computer geek). So do OS's like MacOS and BeOS. Windows has so degraded in quality that anyone who knew better wouldn't even consider it.

    It's getting people to know better that's hard. And I think that's what Petreley is saying.

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