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Linux on CNN Tonight 130

Posted by justin++ from the good-press?- dept.
Thank my mom for this one: tonight on CNN's CNN/Fortune program, there will be a story about Linux. You can read about the show here. For those of us on the east coast, it will air at 10PM. Don't know about other time zones. From the promo, it looks as though the piece will be positive, and possibly oriented a tad towards the (potential) investor.
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Linux on CNN Tonight More

Linux on CNN Tonight

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  • Umm.. .your one to talk, if you dont like it, code for GCC.. try and remember ITS FREE!!! and its only as good as you make it!
    I really cant stand people that knock free software thats really kick a**.
  • I know, I know, I'm an incorrigible geek. >:)

    Cheers.
    -- SG
  • It sure ain't WILLOW BAY. That's way too phony. Any ideas?
  • ...but I didn't know LinuxCare is Red Hat's main competitor. :-)

    More screenshots would have been nice, especially showing GNOME with themes or KDE. They should have loaded up a boatload of apps, put them on 4 virtual desktops, and Ctrl-tabbed between them. *That* would have wowed people!

    Anyway, it was reasonably accurate. *Probably* the best peice Linux has had on mainstream TV (though I haven't seen any others).
  • I haven't really seen or heard any "mainstream" non-print media coverage of Linux with the exception of the NPR piece. I'll be watching with my popcorn and beer, for sure.
  • A nice refresher for those who haven't yet drawn
    the distinction between the preprocessor and the
    compiler.

    I've already drawn that distinction, however, and
    my question stands.

    There would _have_ to be dependencies that reach
    back to the preprocessor stage, though. Imagine:

    #ifdef Heheheh
    #define FOOBAR
    #endif

    #include "duh.h"

    int
    main ()
    {
    /* blah, blah, blah */
    }


    Now, if there were no dependencies on symbols
    from the preprocessor, how do you rectify the
    situation where something in duh.h depends on
    the symbol FOOBAR being defined?

    Precompiled header files would be more difficult
    in this situation. Perhaps we should start a
    technical discussion about this? My email addr
    is coreybrenner@hotmail.com, if anyone would like
    to yacc (heheh) about this further. I think it'd
    be a cool thing to add to GCC/G++.

    --Corey
  • Hmm, the last time I did Windows programming I remember encountering an odd bug..my program was mysteriously segfaulting in a location where no segfault should occur. Reliably. I made no changes to the code, recompiled it, and *it worked*. Of course, finding what was going on was made more difficult by the fact that my debugger would periodically crash (and since in Windows the compiler, editor, and debugger are one, this took down all my work..) And naturally, after 30-50% of those crashes, Windows decided to bluescreen..

    I prefer a system where the compiler, debugger are less buggy than my program.

    Daniel
  • While I have used M$VC++ (yech) of various generations (only because my boss made me, I swear! :), I haven't played much with it's precompiled header stuff. But back in the days of good old Borland C++, I did notice that #defines and such before the #includes did not force a rebuild of the precompiled headers, unless the conditions, definitions, etc changed since the last build. It appeared that it was keeping track of the list of includes, and also all current state of things leading into the includes. Anyway, perhaps it wouldn't be necessary to propogate changes like to mentioned, but just recognize that the "pre-#include symbol dump" doesn't match. I don't know if that made much sense...

    Ben Shakal
    argo AT sixg.com
    --
  • I can see your frustration. Cutting just a few minutes can make a huge different on a big STL project.

    I don't know why they haven't added precompiled header support to GCC.

    I think someone mentioned PGCC has it. I used to compile my kernel myself and it's great but I don't know much about it.
    Everything runs much smoother though.

    You might want to look into it.
    Goodluck.

  • In answer to your question yes we sell, use and support Mandrake-Linux. Give it a try if you havn't already done so. It's good stuff!


    Take Care,

    Nick
    LSG
  • Does it bother anyone besides me how popular society thinks that Redhat and GNU/Linux are the same entity? It would be look thinking Compaq is Windows because when you get a Compaq and turn it on, it says ``Windows''.

    As a user of a S.u.S.E., I find this especially bothersome as S.u.S.E. is ``prettier'' out of the box than Redhat, and would probably attract more newbie users. I don't want to start a distro war; Redhat is a great company with great employees/hackers and great products. But Redhat is not GNU/Linux and never will be!

    It's also a misnomer to imply that Redhat is the primary source for Linux. Most people have either ordered CDs from Cheapbytes or Linuxmall or have downloaded it from a place like SunSITE, er, excuse me, MetaLab.

    Cheers,
    Joshua.

  • SAGLE (Score:1)

    by ninjaz ( 1202 )
    If you need a "holy-grail" of GNU and Linux, Debian and Slackware are the only choices... But Red Hat is way more in line with FSF philosophies than any other for-profit distribution that I'm aware of.
    Regarding Debian and GNU, the licensing philosophies of each do differ a bit. For instance, GNU is about making lots of GPL software, and LGPL software. Debian is about DFSG Free software (which a number of licenses fall under, not only GNU GPL) ... Of course, Debian and GNU do have a very good relationship, evidenced by Debian/Hurd and RMS's activity on the debian mailing lists.

    Good luck with Debian 2.1 .. :) I've been running it in prerelease form for some months now, and it has been excellent (as every release has been since I started using it at 1.1.)
  • Whats so wrong with being stuck at 21? I mean come on, there are worse ages to be.

  • It was bad timing because it had to conflict with the Grammys and the Juanita Broderick coverage on MSNBC, CNBC, and Fox News. I know I missed it.
  • it has a lot to do with it. i use compilers all day long, and would *love* for my compiles to run faster. this really is a weakness of gcc (great though it is in so many other ways), and a weakness of the standard compiler is a weakness of the whole system.

    i believe that objective-c may actually have implemented something like this, in which case there might GPL code for it floating around, or an obscure option.
    __

  • CNN (Score:1)

    by Deadtime ( 19083 )
    CNN is promoting the Linux story all over their network and on Headline news.
  • There is also a GNU/Hurd system--and for a while the cygwin tools were called gnu-win32. There was also a thread on debian-devel recently about starting GNU/Solaris and GNU/FreeBSD distros. I think the Debian Weekly News has more info..

    Daniel
  • Man, the Anonymous Cowards are thick tonight.

    I did some development of a rather huge database application back in the days of DOS using Borland C++ 3.0. I also saved a hell of a lot of time with precompiled headers.

    This would be a *nice* feature for gcc/egcs. How does one convince the developers, however?
  • Do a "ps ax" and note what is running on your machine "right now". I do that periodically and note that usually the *only* GNU software running is bash which could be replaced by zsh or something else. I appreciate GNU and there is more GNU stuff on the system than what is running at any one time, but to give GNU special credit and leave out all those other authors is unfair. The *Linux* kernel is central to the OS and is always running and I see no reason to complicate matters for old users, new users, and the general populace with GNU/Linux. Again, I appreciate the importance of GNU in the history of free/open-source software but enough is enough.
  • A couple of minor factual errors, but overall it was a highly positive piece on Linux. Touched all the right notes to appeal to the suits. Sure, it focused excessively on Red Hat, but the format of the show almost requires that.

    In any case, good publicity for Red Hat is beneficial to all Linux distributions because it raises awareness of Linux. I'm sure Red Hat users would be easier to convert to Debian than Windows 98 users would be. I'd be happy to see Red Hat leading the charge into the mainstream, with the other major distributions riding their coattails. There will always be a group of elitists who swear by Slackware (not that I have a problem with Slackware) and bitch about all the "lusers" getting in on the action, but the beauty of Linux is that they'll be free to carry on as they always have.

    One other thing about the show: it skipped over many obvious opportunities for FUD. Sure, they mentioned the lack of retail sources for Linux software, but that's a very real concern for 90% of their viewers. Meanwhile, they said nothing about the embarassing infighting that's been sprouting up in the Free Software (or Open Source - I support both terms) community, like KDE vs. Gnome, Red Hat vs. other distros, GPL vs. everyone else, or ESR vs. RMS. I'm hoping that as Linux becomes more visible and mainstream, people will realize that most of these little civil wars are being carried out by a handful of extremists, while the people who are doing the real work are content to contribute to a great product that can benefit everyone.

    Derek
  • Cool story -- they didn't make any serious errors, told me something I didn't know, and we even got to see Linus 2.0 :-)
  • I have a number of problems with the above quote but for crying out loud, how long is Linus going to be 21?

    Didn't you know that he wrote Linux when he was 13?

    Gergo
  • I enjoyed watching the CNN show but I didn't like the fact that they only mentioned Redhat. I guess the reporters didn't know much about it but just heard of Redhat.

    It's great exposure for linux so I can't complain.
    But it would have been better if they mentioned that there's a lot of GNU software and other distros.

    john
  • That is not the official Linux. I believe it or not got that box from OfficeMax for free!! It was one of those $39-$39 rebate deals where you only pay for the sales tax and postage stamp. The differenc is the 3rd disk which contains free Linux software as opposed to commercial demos. Frankly I'd rather have the free stuff than a demo
  • You may be able to realize a great speedup in
    compilation times by adding:

    #pragma interface

    to your headers and:

    #pragma implementation

    to your code. I don't know how this will inter-
    act with templates, though. Doesn't egcs build
    a template database like the Sun compilers?

    --Corey
  • Linuxppc installs great over ADSL. Finally something to thank PacBell for...
  • must be one hell of a cook!!
  • Linux is new to the mainstream, and as such, it's understandable that they use what they perceive to be the most reliable product. As people catch on to the fact that Linux is Linux is Linux, I expect either the market share to become more evenly distributed or that $50 price tag on the Red Hat boxes to drop considerably.
  • Posted by OGL:

    I just got done watching it, and despite being somewhat redhat-centric, this was a great piece of television. Was it just me or were a LOT of the desktops they showed running window maker? :)

    -W.W.
  • Touche'. Good point. I do use glibc and that had not occurred to me. ;-)

    The way I look at it, though, is "what's really important, the software or the credit?" If it's the software, there's no need to clamor for attention. If it's the credit, then it undermines the whole premise of the movement. Again, I should say that GNU has been invaluable to the cause and still is. I don't want to trash GNU. But I don't think anyone should be bullied into paying tribute. We are members of the same team and team mates don't act that way. I fervently hope that Linux can avoid the fragmentation that has plagued UNIX over all these years. If I thought that calling Linux GNU/Linux would help matters I would do it, but the important thing is *sharing the same goals*, not placating individual desires for getting the credit. Without a common cause, our cause is lost and I'm not ready to give that up.

    Thanks for the observation on shared libraries.

    And everyone, please, let's try to work together for a common cause, as much as is humanly possible. (And, yes, "humanly possible" is a *very real* limitation. ;-) )

    -Steve

    P.S. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to free/open-source software.
  • Sorry, but I have no reason to criticize Linus's beer belly. I put on an similar amount of weight between our first and second children. Guess what? If you're a hacker, and father, and athlete, something has to go. You can't stop being a father without killing your kids (although at 5:00AM, the possibility becomes much more attractive), and choosing between hacking and athletics, well, the athletics went.

    But there's hope. Babies don't stay babies forever, and when they get older, while they still need as much attention, you can concentrate it and actually Get Some Exercising in.
    -russ
  • Having used VC++ a fair amount years ago, I remember precompiled headers basically being the HUGE amount of MFC dependencies being compiled into a big object. The first compilation of a program is fairly time-consuming, as you're compiling ass sorts of MFC bullshit. The resultant object is usually around 2MB!

    So this leads me to believe that what he's saying is that a COMPLETE build of his source, assuming he has the precompiled header, is 2 minutes under VC++ as compared to 25 minutes under GCC. I find this very... improbable. Troll away, lamer.
  • Yay for Justin's mom.
    -
  • Is drawing attention to that fact that you think Linux sucks what you want. It is pretty obvious that you aren't going to get any constructive help. That's like going up to someone and saying "You are an idiot, help me." Posting this on a mailing list or newsgroup would be a lot more constructive.

    Just my two cents.

  • I'm guessing that your code consists of many small source files with some pretty hefty header files. 25 minutes sounds like a bit much for 100k lines. I've encountered the same sort of problem, but with less code.

    Though I agree that VC-style pre-compiled headers would be a nice addition to GCC, I think there are ways to work around the problem.

    First of all, check your dependencies and try to get rid of nested includes. For a containment hierarchy, I find that using pointers and forward class declarations (rather than explicit instances) is an effective way to avoid bloated headers. I'm willing to bet that many of your source files are including a lot of things they don't really need.

    Second, try to consolidate some of your smaller source files. I know a lot of people like to code one file per class, but if you bunch together small related classes into moderate-sized source files (like 1000 lines each), it might help.

    Finally, (and this is not pretty), create an alternate build option for linux whereby all your source files are compiled into a single object. This would be the quickest and most effective way to cut your total compile time by a factor of 10. Obviously, this is only an option if you're doing a complete (or major) rebuild.

    I know that none of the above is really answering your question that well, but this is what I would try. I'd be curious, myself, to find better workarounds.
  • Methinks I smell some fish...

    Machine differences...
    Make file not put together for optimal compilation...
    There are ANY number of reasons this could be a problem.

    Why not use the same make file and then benchmark it?

    Or just keep your head in the sand and continue to complain while your boss replaces you with someone who really knows how to do the job.
  • Can someone put a soundfile of the "their operating systems suck" quote ?
  • No. Object files are a compiled .cc file. Precompiled headers are a compiled .h file. (more or less ;) ). AFAIK gcc doesn't support this..not an issue for me but evidently it is for him. (/me wonders why no-one's added it to gcc yet..)

    I've used some Windows compilers. Precompiled headers are nice. I guess that he feels they're essential.

    Daniel
  • PGCC [pgroup.com] is a commercial C++ compiler that supports precompiled headers. They also have an NT version as well as a Linux (and other UN*Xes) version which could make your cross platform issues easier to deal with.

    Remember, gcc != Linux. Please consider not insulting your target audience next time you ask for help.

  • Starcraft works fine

  • When? (Score:1)

    by cduffy ( 652 )
    The original (not BroodWars) ran great for me back when I played it... except for the sound, and (from a posting I spotted on c.e.m.w) that's fixed now.
  • This was a good article on Linux. It would of been nice to show that more than one company is making some profit of it. Though it was only an article to show that it exists. The Linux people interviewed were protrayed with a good light.

    Hope we can see this, or better articles on Linux and other Open Source initiatives.

    My dream, to see job advertising for Linux experience or knoledge and next to nothing for Windows 1900.

    Iain
  • Yeah, $0 down and $0 a month is a real burden...

    Unless you want a JDBC driver ($2000) it's FREE.

  • Anyone know if there will be a RealVideo stream of it anywhere or anything? Otherwise, I'll have to try and go down to the single TV in my entire dorm that has cable, and see if I can find CNN (although I don't know if there'll be tons of people down there trying to watch something else.. that'd be annoying..)
  • Sometime late tomorrow, there will be a transcript and an AVI of the segment from the show for people to download and geek, er gawk at *smile*. Check back to /. for the download site.
  • So if everyone thought that SuSE was "GNU/Linux" you'd be happy? Doesn't SuSE ship with KDE 1.x which is based on Qt 1.x (i.e. the version of Qt with the objectionable license)? How unGNU...

    SAGLE (SuSE A'int GNU/Linux Either)

    If you need a "holy-grail" of GNU and Linux, Debian and Slackware are the only choices... But Red Hat is way more in line with FSF philosophies than any other for-profit distribution that I'm aware of.

    In case you care, I run Red Hat although I'll probably give Debian 2.1 a spin.

  • Linux is "new", according to Willow "Hi! I'm Mrs ABC!" Bay

    "God" is either pregnant (congrats!), or working on one hell of a beer belly.

    MS have tried to push NT, at places that were smart enough to choose Linux. Good luck with that!

    The official (CNN sez so) pronunciation for the Tubby Deity is "LINE-us".

    Yeah, I know that no other distros were shown (AFAICT), and there was no sign of RMS :), but Robert Young is a fun Face of Linux (as, of course, is the Tubby Deity).

    --

  • Angband kicks Nethack butt. :) So much so, I got my non-geek girlfriend hooked on it... We sit around at night, I read, and she plays Angband... heh.
  • For a few bucks, they'd be glad to add PCH support to gcc.
  • Watched it, recorded it, watched it again! It was great! Yeah, too Red Hat-centric, but wtf. I just LOVED the part about the City of Medina using it to store all the plans for Bill's house on a Linux server (I live in Seattle, just across Lake Washington from Medina). They failed to mention, though, that the City's server runs Caldera, not Red Hat. Can you believe that Bill didn't GIVE them a computer, just to avoid what's turning out to be a hilariously bad piece of negative free press for M$?

    Anyways, thoroughly enjoyable. I just sat there grinning and giggling like a fool. Bob Young looks like he's having a ball, too. :)

    Oh, and piss off to all you whiners who complain about the piece. Get over it. It was fun, relatively accurate, it slammed Microsoft, and it described the most basic differences between Linux and M$ (freedom and stability) in ways that Joe Average can understand, even if they've never touched a computer.
  • how cool - told her to wait a year (runs on winmine & such) then go!

  • Nice nice (Score:1)

    by aXi ( 6533 )
    I hope no fudding included.
  • Posted by DarkYoda:

    They slaughtered linux...
    they are not even worthy to speak of linux...

    ~SbD~
  • Ok this is BS. My company codes a LOT of custom apps. for clients using C, C++ and Ada95. These are easy to bind to GTK. (haven't tried QT but I've heard it's cool to develop on as well)

    I can say definitively that GNU compiled apps are leaner, meaner and are written in REAL C, C++ (M$ doesn't do Ada much to their demise ;-) )

    Visual C++ etc. is garbage. Way to much proprietary extensions and code bloat. I've had programmers interview that have only used Visual C++ for development and they are amazed that it's actually possible to compile and link from a command line. I hire programmers who know ANSI/ISO coding not M$.

    Nick
    LSG


  • Well, they didn't really even mention the word distribution. Just that Red Hat was one place to get Linux. They really didn't mention another company. The only other company they mentioned was the newly created LinuxCare which doesn't make distributions only supports them. I think LinuxCare is going to be one HOT company. Can anybody say IPO?

  • Ouch! (Score:1)

    by edgy ( 5399 )
    Don't do that!

    Why not tell him that if he's willing to run different software that works just as well, and if he's willing to get used to another operating system, that it would work.

    If you want Linux to make it you've got to put a little bit of work into it.

    But it's very much worth it.
  • Linux is my main development platform at work, and it's an operating system that the software doesn't even officially support. Any company that really wants to be free of the grip of microsloth, all the programs needed are out there.

    -davek

  • I have ran into this same problem with my very large STL project. I have brought up the idea of adding precompiled header support to the egcs group twice and got shot down both times.

    Precompiled headers do make a large difference. I can vouch for that. Almost all other Unix platforms I develop on have support for precompiled headers in their native compiler.

    My suggestion to you is either to deal with it or buy a commercial compiler for Linux that supports precompiled headers. Also, you may want to look into the -frepo option. This helps compilation and linking of templates. It sped my STL project up from about 25 minutes to about 10-15 (didn't time it lately).

    Good Luck.

    "In true sound..." -Agents of Good Root
  • Linux popularity can't be judged by the number of programs sitting on a shelf in Best Buy or the local computer shop as they suggest!

    Linux users would be unhappy with an "off the shelf" product, because they have grown use to getting the "latest greatest" version of every application they use by downloading it off the internet. Do you want to walk in and buy GIMP version 0.95 when you can just set your system to download a much newer version while you sleep?

    The internet is an integral part of the Linux culture, and it will take time before people get use to the idea that the Internet is also a primary (not secondary) source of software. The linux community knows this, the buisness world doesn't want to acknoledge this.

    If linux is to be analyzed by the buisness world, it should be analized in other contexts, not the traditional one. Possable opertunities are things like a publication buisness. I know more people would be interested in buying a monthly "subscription" (for $5 a month?) to the most recent version of the top 200 GPL titles for Linux on CD insted of buying stuff off the shelf. People like Time/Warner and all the publishing giants are the ones who stand something to gain, with thier publication subscription machienary in place... So, analyzing Linux in the "traditional" buisness context is idotic, because linux and gpl software will never be a "New version every two years" market like Microsoft has made for thier OS and software.

  • They could have the report given by a quadrapalegic Scottsman on a horse and please all.
    --
    Aaron Gaudio
    "The fool finds ignorance all around him.
  • Very impressive. Although, of course, Redhat seems to be only distribution.


    "...their operating systems suck" -Linus
  • This brings up a good point, in a way. What are
    the technical aspects of precompiled header file
    support? Is this just a dump of the preprocessor's
    symbol table with a dependency lookup, or is there
    something more insidious?

    I'd not mind seeing this feature in GNU C/C++, and
    while I can think of a lot of reasons to not use it,
    I can't think of a single reason to not support it.

    Anyone want to fill me in?

    --Corey
  • hmm, was it just me or did that seem like just one big shameless plug for Redhat???
  • Posted by Skip Franklin:

    Whose idea was it to put this on at the same time as Southpark? CNN's schedulers must not watch Comedy Central. :)

  • yeah! (Score:1)

    by smcd ( 634 )
    i don't like to gripe, but i suggested this story to cnn over a year ago and they're only airing it tonight. do they even listen to the public? it's not like they get many suggestions for stories, right?! jeez.
  • I don't understand why people are so bothered by this. Now I would rather people know the truth as well, but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Redhat does a pretty good job of marketing. I've NEVER heard anyone from Redhat claim that Redhat IS Linux, and I've read many of the Bob Young interviews. If anyone want's to contradict that point, I'd suggest that you provide links to back up the point.

    I've heard people make this complaint before and they sometimes seem to imply that Redhat is under some obligation to plug other distributions besides their own. I'm not accusing jerodd of this because it looks like he blames society for this misnomer over Redhat. I think what tends to happen is that outsiders who don't know any better, assume that Redhat is the producer of Linux because it is the most visable distribution. I don't think this is through any fault of Redhat. I think that people who get serious about installing Linux generally find out about other distributions early on before they develop any brand loyalty. Personally, I'm a big supporter of diversity, so I think it's great that other distros are out there, and I would dread the day that any single distro completely dominates the market. By that same token, while I'm a KDE user, I highly respect Redhat's decision to support GNOME development. As long as there is choice, we're never gonna be as limited as a windows user.
    --
  • ...are out there. Read non-gcc, non-egcs, non-pgcc. They cost money, o'course, but you'll get your pre-compiled headers.

    Don't remember where I saw them, mind you... but do look into it. (Also ask Cygnus what they'd change to add PCH support to egcs).
  • I promised that I would never leave my roots and I'm sticking to that so here I am. From the perspective of a company CEO, this was a very positive news feature.

    I do disagree with Bob Youngs perspective that Linux is not for the end user yet. Thus far a combination of KDE (or gnome) with Star Office and a good email program is all most people need now days.... The Linux power user still knows how to get to his/her tools and is not restricted from them. I like the way KDE works well with Star Office for the end user effect of ease of use combined with a productive, robust environment.
    1999 should be a very good year for Linux.

    Cheers,

    Nick Donovan
    Linux Systems Group
    New York
  • I'm in the US. Missouri, to be exact. St. Louis
    to be precise. :)

    I'd be willing to relocate if... the price is right! ;)


    --Corey


  • Just a thought, I have compiled wine on a dual PII 266 and it takes approximatly 10-16 minutes from scratch. Considering WINE is composed of gigantic chunks of Windows and Linux code (most of possible api and some hardware calls of both) it should be one of the longest compiles out there.


    What are you building? Do you do a clean make every time? Do you need to do a make clean in order to compile correctly? Is the code 100% ANSI, or are there Windows specific features in it? If there are Windows specific calls in there how are they cross compiled, through wrapper(s) or preprocessor statments? Which is your native platform, and which is the port? Did you know there are other compilers availible for Linux?


    Since you have now made this a public thing, I sure many would like to learn from your mistake(s). Why don't you post the makefile and details? I will likely not be able to help you but I am sure somone can.

  • I know that Bill Gates has personally been posting to slashdot.org.

    He just cant keep away from the [reply] button.

    Cheers,
    smithdog
  • Was what the RedHat man said.

    Are we listening yet?
  • I must have missed this. They said on the show that Oracle invested in Red Hat. That true? I know Intel and NS did, and that Oracle is porting software, but did they make a $$$ investment?

    Erik
  • Actually, GNU is supposed to be a self-contained operating system, with HURD as its kernel and the various GNU utilities. It just happened that all the GNU utilitities came about without a completed kernel, and so they got incorporated into the "GNU/Linux" OS, as Linux had the kernel with no utilities. I just call it Linux though, because there's no ambiguity (there's no such thing as Solaris/Linux or Windows/Linux [thank god!]).
    --
    Aaron Gaudio
    "The fool finds ignorance all around him.
  • I've been waiting for Red Hat to release version 6.0 before I took the dive and seriously tried out Linux (I had a stint with it before on my P100 using Red Hat 5.0, but felt that version had a few problems that made it more trouble than it was worth). Now, I'm going to pick up a copy of Red Hat Linux 5.2 at the first available opportunity.



    Looking forward to the land of stable computing,
    Grave
  • Yep I thought so.

    How come you are selling off so much M$ stock?

    Could it be that you know the end of empire is at hand?

    Cheers,
    smithdog

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