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Red Hat Software Businesses

Red Hat at Dell? 73

Posted by CmdrTaco from the looks-pretty-official dept.
NikoDemous writes " Red Hat Software has certified a line of Dell Workstations and Servers as compatible with Red Hat Linux. We've heard some talk of this for some time so does this represent a rift in the Win/Dell relationship?"
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Red Hat at Dell? More

Red Hat at Dell?

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  • "support" is all that matters to some (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Of course they're only going to give "official
    support" to certain "safe" configurations, especially at first.

    A lot of people don't use Linux or other OSS
    only because the "lack of support", and Redhat/Dell is giving it to them.
    They no longer have that lame counter-argument.

    "Official support" was never an issue for the
    kind of people who normally install OSS; I mean,
    these are the type of people who still make good
    use of discarded 386 boxes and the like. This
    move by Dell is for the "but who do we sue?"
    types. Everyone else can do what they've always
    done: get a box with the configuration they
    want and install their (free) OS of choice,
    regardless of "support".
  • Posted by WebGuy:

    First, let me say I work for Dell, but I do not speak for Dell.

    When I came to work for Dell, my chief complaint was that they were too close to Microsoft. I think that is still very true. I think Dell just sees an $opportunity$ here (yes, the almighty dollar rules). Also, Dell is always looking for ways to distinguish itself from other vendors, and this is one of many ways that Dell is trying.
    --
    Chris Stoffel
    Webmaster - Positively Pixar [ourfamily.nu]

  • You go, Dell!

    I've personally never had any problems with a Dell system, but it seems some folks here have...

    I say who cares - a commercial vendor such as Dell selling systems with Linux installed rather than Windoze is a victory in my book!

    Let's hope this comes to fruition.

  • I've never had any.

    But hey, use your brains. If the box comes with a WinModem, order a different one. If it comes with something that you don't like, change it.

    As for the hardware and such otherwise, I've never had a problem.

  • RedHat 5.2 doesn't support SMP out of the box, so it could be that Dell isn't supporting any custom configuration. This could also explain the lack of RAID controller support (though it could also be that the RAID setups they sell aren't compatible with Linux)

    -Falcor
  • Well, we do use better parts, better interfaces and more reliable components, so sometimes this means that it will be a little more expensive, if you were to take a truly comperable model from dell or the rest, you'll find that we are price competitive.


    Chris DiBona (I work for VA)



  • As someone looking to purchase a P11 400 or 450 anyday now the idea of it coming ready loaded with linux is not one of my requirements. Basically I am looking forward to getting a new box, creating new partitions and installing the OS exactly as I want it and under my own control. Granted I know what I am doing and that install-your-own-os is not really an option for all the tens of millions of new-users expected over the next few years but still it isn't as much fun is it?
  • Will they pre-install other distributions..or at least give you a blank computer and a CD..or even just the computer? If not, it's still good news for Linux in general but not particularly for me since I don't want a copy of RedHat. And I'm not looking to buy a new system right now.. :-)

    Daniel

    (PS: do they charge you for Linux and Windows or do they skip the Microsoft tax this way?)
  • "Doctor, what's the diagnosis?"

    "The patient seems to have suffered catastrophic failure of the sense of humor. It is almost certainly fatal, and there is no cure."

    Daniel
  • Currently, our department (University of North Dakota Chemistry) is considering buying a dual Xeon system for number crunching. There is a big debate about VAResearch vs. Dell (Dell has a deal with our school, University of North Dakota). Larry M. Augustin (of VAResearch) is willing to work with us, if the people here in charge of the decision would only get off ther butts and call him. Dell has shown no interest in supporting something like we want, but now makes this announcement.

    Looking at $6,000 to $12,000 boxes all over the place, wondering what commercial Fortran compilers will do for us, what will be better, NT, Linux, Single Xeon 2M cache, dual 1M Xeon systems, all kinds of details that are very specific to the data arrays of the calculations, and leaving many unanswered questions. Double the price, double the preformance? Maybe, maybe not, maybe better compilers are the answer, maybe not, maybe we should just get another SGI. It's a total mess of a decision here. And, right now, since the real "cheifs" (pointy hair bosses) are making the decisions of who to even gets to talk, it get's even tougher.

    I tell you, Dell not supporting more graphic cards, and not supporting Dual will play heavy against them in our decision. At the same time, "loyalty" plays it's ugly hand in favor of Dell for no good reason.

    Some times, even when it looks like good news at first glance, it only makes the situation worse. The "Pointy Hair Boss" syndrome seems to play more heavy into these decisions than anything Dell or VAResearch can do/say/support. It's all well and good as far as Linux PR goes. But when you need the box NOW, and avaliability of Dell's limited support is coming "in a few weeks," and you can't even get the pointy haired bosses to TALK to the suppliers, this news just makes me wanna scream.

    Sorry, I think I am babbleing incoherently now, I'll shut up, I just had to vent. Larry, if your out there, I am still fighting for you guys here, I hope I get them to pick up the damn phone. (Damn the phone, which BTW, Dell isn't answering today when they called to get details about the Dual's and Linux. Strike TWO for Dell.)

  • Seriously, the supported hardware is very disappointing. I was starting to think VAResearch was in trouble what with the mainstream manufacturers supporting Linux, but seriously:
    1) Max one CPU? For a server?
    2) No RAID? Be real.
    That mix essentially rules out any high-end performance and any high-end availability. Gateway, IBM, etc. had better do better, because this little support for servers is tantamount to none.
    --
  • Another question is if RedHat will start making two different kernel RPMs (one with SMP, one without), or just compile the default with SMP enabled for their next release, since an SMP kernel shouldn't be a big performance hit to those without SMP machines.
    I think that's a good idea. I've brewed my own kernel RPM's to build my stripped down kernel before, and it's a pretty trivial task, so there is nothing stopping them from doing so.
    --
  • I doubt it. the OEM version probably just means "preinstalled". They may include some propriotary software like on the official redhat cd's, but I would be pretty sure that you can download any Free software package included on that machine from the Redhat ftp site. I would be very surprised to find otherwise. Besides, even if it wasn't, nothing could stop you if you wanted to upload such a package to a website, so I don't see how this is a violation of the GPL. I think that statement is more or less trying to make Dell look distinguished (if that's possible).
    --
  • Maybe it's because RedHat 5.2 uses Linux 2.0.36, which ships with SMP disabled. Sure, you could (gasp!) recompile your own kernel (preferably 2.2, which has *far* superior SMP support), but RH is probably playing it safe and waiting until they release RH6 (which should use Linux 2.2) to start certifying SMP systems. At any rate, it's tough to "certify" a system where your OS, out of the box, doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the second CPU.

    Another question is if RedHat will start making two different kernel RPMs (one with SMP, one without), or just compile the default with SMP enabled for their next release, since an SMP kernel shouldn't be a big performance hit to those without SMP machines.

    -Jake
  • Dell and the rest were all bowing to M$ pressure until the DOJ put M$ on trial. Go DOJ!
  • But like I said, without the DOJ antitrust trial, this would have never happened. So even if Dell is bowing to M$ pressure to support Linux to aid M$ in the trial, this would never have happened without the trial.
    It is not too far fetched to think that Mr Dell would have done Linux if that is what Bill Gates asked him to do.
  • ...TO HELL WITH DELL!!
    I work for a VAR so that makes 'em competition.

  • Ha HA heeee he ha ha ha lol rotf ha he he ha ha he he gpl software ha he he breath gasp he he he monopoly?.. heh HA HA HA he he crazy .. breath GASP..

    *gasp* See earlier post "MS Employees making Fake posts in Forums?" He he HA CAN'T be serious.. He he ha ha lol..

    He ha ha ha Dictator Bob Young? he he ha ha rotf he he he...

  • He he sniff.. I kinda figured.. but some times you just can't be sure,
    he he..MS propiganda looks about as rational as that to me... all that static blurs the line. I guess there is still hope for me, I did find it really funny.

    *giggle*

    (keeping your threshhold at -2 does weird things to your brain!)
  • The inclusion of Dell could force other 2nd and 3rd tier OEMS to start shipping Linux. For example the guys who put out like 5000-10000 boxes a month. I believe this would create the needed intertia for more end users....One the other hand

    This provides a convenient way for M$ to say, "Look even Dell is shipping Linux" and after the trial Dell can say, "We will continue to ship Linux per special demand in required minimum quantities of XX, but we save our "enterprise hardware" for NT" again....more FUD??

    Nick
    LSG


  • Anyone have any idea how well linux will support all the funky things like temp sensors, fan faults and what not?

    I havent heard anything on this front, I would imagine that all the calls would (formerly) have to had been reverse engineered. I dont know how hard this would have been for these Dell's (or even if these paticular models have these things) before.

    Actualy Ive only been up close and personal with one pc server, a netfinity 5500, at a Novell show yesterday.

  • I just got off the phone will Dell techinical support. The web page is worded a little confusingly. The page mentions a "special release" of Red Hat linux - specially tailored for these workstations (note - not servers). The lack of support for Dual-CPUs refers to *that special release* of RedHat linux.
    Actually, Dell isn't even offering the support, they have a deal with RedHat. You buy the support from Dell, but you talk to RedHat when you need it.
    The tech rep did not know if a more "advanced" release of RedHat was in the works for Dual-CPU support, RAID support, etc.
  • I am also disappointed that Dell's "supported configurations" do not include either SMP or RAID. If you take away SMP and RAID it would seem to be more of workstation than a server, at least by today's standards.

    Vendors like VA Research have been offering SMP and RAID solutions for quite some time, so it is obviously viable. I believe I read something recently about MegaDrive RAID controller drivers for linux. They make good, expensive RAID enclosures. Also, many people have pointed out that SMP on Linux is natively supported quite well.

    The only reason I would guess Dell isn't offering these options is that they are tied to part suppliers (in the case of RAID hardware) who do not yet support Linux. Perhaps they are also waiting for an official RedHat 2.2 Kernel distribution before they officially support SMP.

    I'm glad they are becoming more serious about Linux, but lets see a *real* server configuration please. I hope it won't be too long.

    -OT
  • When I went to the custom configuration page for the Poweredge 6300 the default setup is for no OS, and if you want WindowsNT server it's an additional $799.

    I bet the margins on these things are large enough that Microsoft's pricing leverage isn't as powerful.
  • Actually, I have a dell and its perfectly compatable as is. Back when I ordered it (late 97) Winmodems were the standard, but could be upgraded to a regular USR Sportster for something like 20 bucks....which any sane person did.

    Dell is kindof a cruddy company, buy the boxes they do make are pretty nice....the fact that mine had managed to survive me and still keep smiling is testament to that.

    In retrospect, I should have gotten a Micron or just built my own....I was just feeling lazy.
  • In my experience Dell has built some very solid high performance machines.

    On the other hand I still have a bitter taste in my mouth from Michael Dell testifying on behalf of MS. Remember how he said that they had always offered to install Netscape or IE?

    I forget which senator(?) had his assistants call dell 5 times asking if they could get netscape installed on a new machine. The answer was no each time.

  • i work at a HUGE corporate shop that
    is exclusively dell for windoze boxes...

    wanna take a guess what they said when i needed
    something for NT?

    you guessed it!! "im sorry sir, but we dont
    support NT on your box, since it wasnt preinstalled" ... lamers!

  • Is there a reason they don't support 2 processors? I can't think why they wouldn't.
  • It's hardly a violation of the GPL. You can't get the exact combo of stuff in Red Hat 5.1, except by getting Red Hat 5.1, But it's still all free. You could gather all those files together on your own, but why? Who would bother distributing the exact same thing for the same price, when Red Hat is already doing it?

    Besides, all any Wintel hardware vendor does is slap some hardware & software together, make sure it all works, and ship it. It's the same thing a Linux distributor does: bundle the OS and lots of apps and utilities, and make sure they all work together... but with the addition of hardware/drivers.

    If you just order up 200 units of various models desktop machines and 50 units of various models laptops with whatever random hardware the vendors are dishing out, and then try and put Linux on it, chances are you will have problems. You'll find out that the installer can't see your hard disk properly, or that (real world example) the Hitachi laptop ethernet controller and sound chip are supported only in bleeding edge releases that it might take a couple of days/weeks to track down. These aren't insurmountable problems, but they take some time and expertise to fix. For a linux geek that's OK, but for an MIS that's a catastrophe. He ordered 250 machines and it took weeks to get them all working. At least in the Wintel world, they wait a couple of weeks before randomly corrupting their Registries :)

    So they like the "value-add" that comes from knowing that when they order a system, that hardware configuration definitely works as installed and shipped. They don't want to futz with altavista and dejanews trying to find a beta driver for that new card, they want to pay a field-tech monkey to take it out of the box, plug in all the cables, turn it on, and start running installers.

    Of course Wintel OEMs sometimes fall down on their asses and fail to provide the value I just described, but that's the whole reason they persist when you can slap your own PC together from parts catalogs for less. It's the delta between the pile of parts, and the definitely-working system (h/w and s/w) that the Wintel OEMs provide.

    VA Research is in exactly the same place, and they're apparently doing a more complete job of it. Don't freak out and accuse Dell of being evil and clueless - they're entrenched deeply in the Wintel worls, but are moving cautiously in the right direction. They're no heroes or anything, but after a few months, when they find out that supporting Linux is a viable business, they'll undoubtedly take on the "risk" of supporting something other than a vanilla configuration.

    In the meantime, just be sure to tell Dell that you're ordering from VA Research instead of them, and why :) That will tell them that there is demand for real servers (SMP/RAID) and that they are losing that business to a competitor.
  • Dell sent us source code for their RAID driver
    last year, so we could compile an SMP version too.

    Why they don't just release the source, I do
    not know.

    Cheers, Andy!

    http://www.wizzy.com/andyr/
  • It's more than likely that Microsoft asked Dell to support linux to help support their contention that there is competition in the OS market. It will be interesting to see if Dell really supports linux or if it's just offering it to help their buddy. Personally Wintel is getting old I propose Windell. Well see if I'm right. I ope I'm not!!

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