Microsoft Previews Linux Containers That Run In Windows (theregister.com) 93
Microsoft has released a public preview of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) containers, adding a built-in command-line tool and API for running Linux containers directly inside Windows applications without third-party software. The update also introduces faster file access, improved networking and memory management, plus integration with Defender, Intune, and VS Code. The Register reports: WSL has always been a handy way to run Linux workloads from Windows, and is particularly convenient for Linux developers who must comply with corporate edicts to use a Windows device. The CLI for end-to-end container workflows furthers this. Microsoft stated, "WSL containers make it easier for developers and organizations to build, test, and run containerized workloads while benefiting from the security, manageability, and integration of the Windows platform."
Alternatively, you could run your preferred Linux distribution natively, but that might not be an option, particularly if an organization is keen on the "security, manageability, and integration of the Windows platform." And this is an important point. WSL's existing Microsoft Defender for Endpoint (MDE) has been updated (in private preview) to be aware of Linux container events, and there are settings in Intune for managing WSL containers. Support is also in a pre-release version of VS Code, where the Docker path in the dev container settings can be changed to wslc.
There is also a new default file system for WSL container that Microsoft claims makes Windows file access twice the speed. So, going from terribly slow to just slow? We'll wait until general availability is reached before passing judgment. There's a new default networking mode to improve compatibility and better memory reclaim techniques. However, none of these tweaks will be enabled by default in WSL. Microsoft wrote, "Since these changes touch mission critical paths like file system access and network, for now they are enabled just in WSL container."
Alternatively, you could run your preferred Linux distribution natively, but that might not be an option, particularly if an organization is keen on the "security, manageability, and integration of the Windows platform." And this is an important point. WSL's existing Microsoft Defender for Endpoint (MDE) has been updated (in private preview) to be aware of Linux container events, and there are settings in Intune for managing WSL containers. Support is also in a pre-release version of VS Code, where the Docker path in the dev container settings can be changed to wslc.
There is also a new default file system for WSL container that Microsoft claims makes Windows file access twice the speed. So, going from terribly slow to just slow? We'll wait until general availability is reached before passing judgment. There's a new default networking mode to improve compatibility and better memory reclaim techniques. However, none of these tweaks will be enabled by default in WSL. Microsoft wrote, "Since these changes touch mission critical paths like file system access and network, for now they are enabled just in WSL container."
Why isn't this called (Score:2)
Re: Imagine.,. (Score:2)
If it would warm up some hot grits maybe
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Really? Office in your browser would qualify?
Porting is such sweet sorrow.
Other way around (Score:5, Interesting)
I would really prefer the other way around, invoking Windows containers for the few Windows apps that I am stuck running.
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Same. About one of the few real use-cases for containers.
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I honestly can't recall the last time I ran a windows app on my Mint box...I think maybe I was trying to install Snagit a couple of years ago, but it wouldn't install properly.
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But that is for me the only usecase.
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Re: Other way around (Score:3)
I have one for space cadet pinball...
Re: Other way around (Score:2)
Da da da da da
Da da
Da da da da da
Love that song
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I would really prefer the other way around, invoking Windows containers for the few Windows apps that I am stuck running.
You have been able to do it for ages. Two relatively streamlined recent options are Winapps and Winboat. However, there is little interest and not much community support on these solutions, and although one could in principle have everything, they require some tinkering to have GPU passthrough. Also, you need to have a window system running, which gobs up a lot of RAM just by itself.
Th
Ain't nothing like the real thing baby. (Score:5, Insightful)
Running Linux in a Windows container is dumb.
Run Linux natively or run Windows in a sandboxed Linux container.
Windows is not to be trusted.
I sense a disturbance in the Microsoft force.
Could it be fear of Linux on Microsoft's part?
Microsoft has a lot to lose if Linux becomes more widespread, but it is loss of control of the user experience that they fear the most.
Re: Ain't nothing like the real thing baby. (Score:5, Interesting)
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Microsoft hasn't "embraced" anything, they just realized there's higher quality software they can use for free because of the hard work of others.
Embraced: "enthusiastically accept a new idea, belief, or change"
So you say they didn't embrace something, but then proceed to give an example of them embracing said thing?
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The English language is full of varied meaning, connotation and words sometimes have more than one definition. It's really a marvellous thing.
But thanks for your redundant and value-less contribution.
Re: Ain't nothing like the real thing baby. (Score:2)
The only VM with good Windows accelerated graphics performance is VMware, period. It feels gross to write that, but it's true.
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That's basically why docker
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Microsoft has a lot to lose if Linux becomes more widespread, but it is loss of control of the user experience that they fear the most.
Probably. The only explanation why they are even doing this is that the technological superiority of Linux is now so bad that Windows simply cannot compete anymore.
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This. And configure the containers so that it takes regular snapshots, so that you either always start from the same snapshot, or are able to roll back after a crippling Window update or malware outbreak.
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As for Microsoft's intentions, I would suggest it's because the reality is they've lost the war. Most of open source tools and cloud developme
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Windows is not to be trusted.
You got that backwards. The lockdown and provided tools for management of windows is precisely why it *is* trusted in corporations. It's far easier to manage systems and lock down users than on Linux where management is a bit more of a wild west of applications.
Now you personally at home, that's a different story. But then you're probably weren't running something cross OS platforms in a container anyway.
Microsoft has a lot to lose if Linux becomes more widespread
Microsoft currently make more money from Linux than Windows. Azure is its biggest division and Linux is
What year is it? (Score:1)
WSL has been available for years. What's new here?
Re: What year is it? (Score:3)
Re:What year is it? It Replaces Docker CLI. (Score:3)
Here's the simplest example/use-case (from within a Windows ecosystem): You setup a webhook on your git repo. The webhook is actually a script build 'agent' (unscheduled task) which spins up a Linux container via CLI script, fetches the
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To try to make containers made on WSL incompatible with Docker.
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I would not trust microsoft to not try to change how containers are supposed to run. To try to make containers made on WSL incompatible with Docker.
Newsflash: Docker DOES NOT OWN the concept or any implementations of 'containers.' And Microsoft is NOT trying to replicate Docker's CLI-accessible implementations of 'containers.' Quotation marks around 'containers' due to them already being sandboxed virtualized compute instances (VMs) and the likes of Microsoft, VMware, Oracle, Red Hat, IBM, and many others before them having already created/developed the entire ecosystem around systems virtualization.
Trying to establish Docker as the pioneer of virtu
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Eiher that or Work on User Problems/Features (Score:2)
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Yeah, I was surprised to see that the Intel ProSet utility is blocked on Windows 11. Specifically, you can't use it to enable multiple VLANs on an Intel wired network card. In my personal use case I typically have WHP disabled and am running VMware Workstation. The only option at this point is to use a Hyper-V vSwitch, and I really don't want to turn that mess back on again.
hahaha (Score:2, Interesting)
you could run your preferred Linux distribution natively, but that might not be an option, particularly if an organization is keen on the "security, manageability, and integration of the Windows platform."
Are the security, manageability, and integration in the room with us?
1) Microsoft just pushed an update which fixes a bunch of Windows problems, but fucks up Office, they obviously did zero integration testing.
2) This update was mandatory, it could not be declined by any means, even though it was known to fuck things up. So much for manageability.
3) Don't even fucking get me started on security when Microsoft doesn't even know what the fuck happened at least the last two times there's been a serious securit
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I advocate for Linux; however, I also have to be realistic. Try patching Ubuntu 24 LTS and then check what vulnerabilities are still left with the note "no patch available". It is currently over 100. That will not fly in any organization that cares about security.
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And how many vulnerabilities in Windows 11 have "no patch available"? The problem is that we can't know what the number is because it's all closed source and MS doesn't want to show their dirty laundry. Sure, we know some via open CVE's, but there are others that I'm sure MS knows about that aren't on the list. I will say that if I search for "open CVE's on Windows 11" I get a list of about 2800.
I don't worry about missing Linux patches all that much because I work on stuff behind firewalls with no incoming
I'm OK with this. (Score:2)
Re: I'm OK with this. (Score:1)
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Just a list of instructions to install Docker on the cli in WSL.
Devs are expected to be able to follow instructions and use the commandline
Why would anybody sane do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Containers already need almost full system administration, even is many people are in denial about that. Running Linux containers on underperforming, unstable, insecure Windows is about the peak of stupidity.
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For some of them, yes. But why the denial in the others?
WIndows is useless (Score:5, Interesting)
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Windows has failed, the experiment is over, Windows is a joke, and no professional would be caught using it, if they want to be taken seriously.
The problem is government. OK, nobody takes government IT seriously and for good reason, but they still need to interface with the government constantly. Since every fucking governmental entity in the USA is based on Windows and IBM, we're all forced to be able to interoperate with those. Microsoft has deliberately made their Office suite non-interoperable with false standards that require epic effort to duplicate to a working extent.
Local governments use Windows to interoperate with State govs. State govs
Re:WIndows is useless (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is government. OK, nobody takes government IT seriously and for good reason, but they still need to interface with the government constantly. Since every fucking governmental entity in the USA is based on Windows and IBM, we're all forced to be able to interoperate with those. Microsoft has deliberately made their Office suite non-interoperable with false standards that require epic effort to duplicate to a working extent.
This is absolutely true, and it drives me nuts! There is no reason to use broken, locked in file formats. Just before xmas, I emailed a government client a ODT file, and holy crap.... that literally triggered a security review meeting. "Why did you do this????" what? I use LibreOffice, that's why, it wasn't an attack, and I can't open MS Office on my computer, even in the browser, it's broken due to privacy extensions.
I've worked with senior IT in the US and Canadian government, the number of times I've seen them boot up Windows, then remote to a Linux or Unix box, make me laugh. Luckily, with the push from the EU, this might start changing.
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LibreOffice can save files in .docx format. Why didn't you?
Our state government has a policy on document formats to be used:
Office Open XML format (ISO/IEC 29500-1:2016) for document, spreadsheets and presentations (e.g. docx, xlsx, pptx for Microsoft Office 2008 applications), or
The Open Document Format (ODF) for electronic office for text, sheet, presentation, and graphics (ODT, ODS, ODP, ODG) International standard ISO/IEC 26300-1:2015.
Not a bad effort IMO, and potentially a reason why GP send in via ODT format.
Re: WIndows is useless (Score:1)
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Agreed to all of that. But there are enough fake professionals around to keep Windows alive and MS getting richer on it, even if Windows is more and more crumpling in reliability, performance and security.
Re:WIndows is useless (Score:5, Interesting)
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Nice! That is even worse than what I thought and I try to keep current on MS incapability and non-caring. And yes, I have an idea how much effort such a recovery is.
I think we really need liability when a vendor pushes out crap like that. Of course, this would kill Microsoft fast and hence it is probably not going to happen soon. In the meantime, the enshittification will continue.
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I can't find any reference to this. Not saying it hasn't happened, I just don't see it on the internet. A link would be useful.
I've had Linux kill a motherboard (would boot, but fans and sensors didn't work so it would overheat and crash pretty quickly) setting up lm_sensors.
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I believe it has happened, but it has zero to do with Windows. Both Windows and Linux provide methods for UEFI updates. PC vendors provide pretty rubbish updates, and motherboard vendors provide pretty rubbish UEFI implementations. I have zero reason to think that the GP made this up, but it also has zero to do with Windows itself.
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BitLocker is ano
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That's not a Windows bug, Windows actively has an interface to update UEFI. The problem is with the UEFI implementation. There's countless examples out there of people corrupting UEFI from Linux as well, which also provides an interface to update UEFI.
Along with that bug, it can silently activate BitLocker, and not back the key up, bricking the system. This has happened at our company, multiple times, and do you think Microsoft ever rushed in to help? Not once!
You sound like a tiny company to a) not have support, and b) not already have bitlocker active on your devices. I'm not surprised they don't rush to help.
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I answered the UEFI point in a different reply, so need to address it here.
They don't have the option to provide support or not. They provide a closed system, that is broken, breaking, failing, and then never provide support. Microsoft's support is almost a feat in incompetence and fraud, and I k
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I have never worked anywhere in my entire career where Windows wasn't the standard, dictated OS. Linux at home, Linux on the server, but there has always been a Windows PC on my work desk. Unfortunately.
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Same, sadly.
It's fine for our developers but apparently too damn tricky for mere mortals like myself.
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Let's assume my work wanted me to use Windows. Apart from the insane memory requ
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Imagine if you installed Linux / Unix, and then had to install a Windows VM / Container to get anything done, it's ridiculous, and it's just wasting time, resources and causing IT constant headaches.
You just described the last decade or so of Apple Mac in business outside Silicon Valley..
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And windows is completely useless in this sector. All the languages and tools are Linux/Unix based.
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>"I have never worked anywhere in my entire career where Windows wasn't the standard, dictated OS. Linux at home, Linux on the server, but there has always been a Windows PC on my work desk. Unfortunately."
Well, where I work, Linux is the standard on all machines- servers (10+) and desktops (270+). Has been for decades. And I am not even counting the switches, routers, door control system, HVAC control, electronic signs, sensors, access points, etc, all of which also run Linux. We do have a few MS-Win
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When I went to work for post-acquisition Tivoli (IBM) they issued everyone two PCs, for the most part a pair of PPro 180s, one running Windows 2000 and one with OS/2 so that you could use it to run ACME, a screen scraper GUI for RETAIN. You had to keep Windows so that you could run Notes, but if you just used a 3270 emulator and learned to use the application directly (which was often necessary since ACME updates would lag RETAIN) then you didn't need OS/2 any more. So yes I had to have Windows, but then I
heh heh (Score:2)
My personal mod troll is SO MAD I EXIST.
Rent free all day, all night. They never stop thinking about me.
How is this new? (Score:2)
I could already run Docker Desktop, using WSL for the virtualization layer. What's the advantage of this? Is it only the "without third-party software"?
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The irony (Score:2)
Yo Dawg! (Score:2)
Linux containers that run in Linux!
Who Is Using This? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not bashing anyone nor implying anything. I genuinely want to know the answers and reasons for this.
First, who is using WSL for more than desktop use? If you're using WSL on the server/backend, what are you doing and why did you not choose native Linux?
Who is going to use this new container product? What will you run in Linux containers under Windows and why?
If your corporation mandates the use of Windows, why are you touching Linux? Why not develop for Windows native?
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First, who is using WSL for more than desktop use?
MSFT engineers that cannot use Linux or Mac.
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I'm not sure anyone would be using WSL for a server / backend for anything other than testing / development purposes. This approach doesn't make much sense.
As for the container, the question is, why not? As it stands you can already run Linux containers under windows. A popular use case is AI tools, a lot of which are built around python and target Linux environments and are containerised.
But the question is ... Docker already runs Linux containers on Windows, so why do you need Linux in a container in WSL
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I can’t see why anyone but Microsoft would use this for production, and then not for any real reason. I assume the software development and maintenance effort is relatively minor.
Other than things like Windows preference and organizations populated by Windows-only administrators, the only use case I can see for containerizing Linux under Windows would be for environments that want or need Linux functionality beyond what WSL can provide (I’m not sure what that would be) but a
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In our shop, it is the .NET developers. Whole lot of mid folks that never leave the MS ecosystem.
Like hauling your Porsche in a dumptruck (Score:4, Funny)
Running Linux in containers under Windows is like hauling your Porsche around in a dumptruck.
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That's an unfair comparison. Porsche belong in a dump truck. Linux doesn't belong in a container.
Frankenstein's Containers (Score:1)
This sounds truly awful. The thought of integration with Intune and Defender just brings on the nausea in all kinds of unpleasant ways.
Why *anyone* would be using Windows for container workloads is a bit of a mystery, although I suspect that this is a half-baked precursor to convincing people that utilising AI-orchestrated container ensembles on Windows is a "fun and funky" thing to do. No doubt the MS stans out there will find some cognitively dissonant rationale for why this is cool and rad bro.
Some Olymp
Free Linux with a $$$ Windows license (Score:2)
Microsoft never embraced open source software with the idea of giving users a free ride.
A Stupid Idea (Score:2)
Why would anyone want to do this? Run an unreliable, bloated, privacy-invadfing mostrosity and then graft a good OS on the side of it? It's like screwing a Ferrari to the side of an old Chevy station wagon.
competition (Score:2)
Microsoft would do anything to prevent users run Linux natively and discover Windows isn't really needed.
Windows port of FreeBSD's Linuxulator? (Score:2)