Linux Interoperability Is Maturing Fast Thanks To a Games Console (theregister.com) 41
Liam Proven writes via The Register: Steam OS is the Arch-based distro for a handheld Linux games console, and Valve is aggressively pushing Linux's usability and Windows interoperability for the device. Two unusual companies, Valve Software and Igalia, are working together to improve the Linux-based OS of the Steam Deck handheld games console. The device runs a Linux distro called Steam OS 3.0, but this is a totally different distro from the original Steam OS it announced a decade ago. Steam OS 1 and 2 were based on Debian, but Steam OS 3 is based on Arch Linux, as Igalia developer Alberto Garcia described in a talk entitled How SteamOS is contributing to the Linux ecosystem.
He explained that although Steam OS is built from some fairly standard components -- the normal filesystem hierarchy, GNU user space, systemd and dbus -- Steam OS has quite a few unique features. It has two distinct user interfaces: by default, it starts with the Steam games launcher, but users can also choose an option called Switch to Desktop, which results in a regular KDE Plasma desktop, with the ability to install anything: a web browser, normal Linux tools, and non-Steam games.
Obviously, though, Steam OS's raison d'etre is to run Steam games, and most of those are Windows games which will never get native Linux versions. Valve's solution is Proton, an open-source tool to run Windows games on Linux. It's formed from a collection of different FOSS packages, notably: [Wine, DXVK, VKD3D-Proton, and GStreamer]. The result is a remarkable degree of compatibility for some of the most demanding Windows apps around [...]. You can view Garcia's 49-page presentation here (PDF).
He explained that although Steam OS is built from some fairly standard components -- the normal filesystem hierarchy, GNU user space, systemd and dbus -- Steam OS has quite a few unique features. It has two distinct user interfaces: by default, it starts with the Steam games launcher, but users can also choose an option called Switch to Desktop, which results in a regular KDE Plasma desktop, with the ability to install anything: a web browser, normal Linux tools, and non-Steam games.
Obviously, though, Steam OS's raison d'etre is to run Steam games, and most of those are Windows games which will never get native Linux versions. Valve's solution is Proton, an open-source tool to run Windows games on Linux. It's formed from a collection of different FOSS packages, notably: [Wine, DXVK, VKD3D-Proton, and GStreamer]. The result is a remarkable degree of compatibility for some of the most demanding Windows apps around [...]. You can view Garcia's 49-page presentation here (PDF).
and what about the aint-cheat and DRM that Linux (Score:3)
and what about the aint-cheat and DRM that running on Linux can trip off in games?
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It works well in games like Elden Ring. Support is possible but it varies by developer.
Re:and what about the aint-cheat and DRM that Linu (Score:4, Informative)
Can confirm, Elden Ring works well and I was suprised.
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Basically Proton is Wine with Valve's patches for all that shit. It works surprisingly well. It doesn't work for everything perfectly, but that's made up for by the fact that the store has a new set of icons to tell you which work and which don't, as well as a website [protondb.com] listing helpful user anecdotes about such, including often, tweaks and fixes for stuff at the fringe. They've done actually very well at targeting newer and high-profile games, so the support cross-section isn't just centered on obsolete stuff
Re:and what about the aint-cheat and DRM that Linu (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, probably also worth mentioning that not everything lacking the "full Steam Deck support" icon is not actually working, either. I've noticed several of my older games still work great despite not getting the official designation; I assume just because they're older and nobody but me has tested them any time recently. (Some of these games have "Remastered" versions for sale that are marked as working, so I'd suspect that might have something to do with it.)
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Essentially, Windows is getting less and less compatible to itself anyways. So DRM needs to back off more and more.
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Ironically what may bring about the Year of the Linux Desktop is Windows.
Linus Torvalds spoke about this a couple of years ago at a Debian conference. He pointed out that he releases binaries for his diving app for Windows and Mac OS, but not for Linux. Reason being that Windows and Mac binaries are universal and will probably still work 20 years from now. For Linux you need to release at least half a dozen different binaries for different distros.
Not even just one binary for each distro. You need one for U
Re: and what about the aint-cheat and DRM that Lin (Score:2)
My understanding is that wine and proton are meant to faithfully re-create the Windows API. That presumably would include whatever APIs these DRM and anti cheat systems use to do what they do.
That said, there are likely games out there that explicitly check for Wine and refuse to run on it (I have no idea if being able to detect Wine is a thing the Wine developers added intentionally or not but I don't see any reason such functionality should exist)
Re: and what about the aint-cheat and DRM that Lin (Score:4, Insightful)
AFAIK you can detect Wine directly as it does not try to hide. And obviously, Wine will not run any Windows kernel drivers. But quite frankly, I will not buy any games that require kernel drivers either and neither should you.
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Well, countless malware instances say this could easily be hidden. But Wine is not malware and has no reason to even try.
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At this point it's a publisher decision, as Valve has worked with Anti-cheat developers to ensure Proton can support them. The big anti-cheats are VAC (which is Valve's own and fully supported for ages), Battleye (Supported since 2021 [gamingonlinux.com]), and Easy Anti-Cheat (Supported since 2021 [gamingonlinux.com]); the latter two only work if the publisher enables them.
Publishers don't always enable, particularly the big multiplayer (Call of Duty / Battlefield / PUBG / Destiny) and Asian Gatcha games, but some do (Apex Legends, Halo, GTA5);
New convert (Score:4, Informative)
I've wanted to switch to linux for a while but gaming was holding me back. Finally switched after the deck was released, and it's great. All the games I care about run great, only one old game and some stuff that must have been bundle trash are incompatible. Google "steam deck pc environment" or something like that and you might find their page for setting up a PC for compatibility testing. Basically Manjaro linux with plasma, and turn on a compatibility setting in Steam.
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Yep. Windows is going down the drains. And the supposed replacement, namely some "Cloud Windows" will probably be even worse. I mean, these cretins had a master key for their Cloud recently stolen from them and the whole of Azure could have burned down. Why are we putting any eggs into that basket?
ugh (Score:2)
Adding case insensitivity is not "maturing".
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I somewhat agree. I was miffed about this too; finding out it would refuse to use microSD expansion in any other mode, but I can understand why they'd do that to make targeting Proton support easier for Windows production houses.
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Since when is Arch entirely different from Debian? (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, since when is a Window Manager a major part of a Unix-like OS? This is not Microsoft crap we are talking about here.
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That does in no way make them "fundamentally" different. It makes them different in some implementational details. You need to look up what "fundamental" means.
Re:Since when is Arch entirely different from Debi (Score:5, Informative)
Package management is pretty fundamental to a distribution.
Arch and Debian differ in a lot of ways. Not just the package management. They both use Linux kernels, but different builds with different patch sets. And in Debian the Linux kernel is optional, it also has a FreeBSD kernel and the GNU/HURD. Arch uses systemd as the init daemon, Debian gives you a choice between that and several others. Both come with KDE Plasma as one of their desktop environments (KWin is KDE's window manager), packaged differently. Both use GNU tools.
They also differ in the ways they configure networks, and how they handle command alternatives.
There are more differences between them than commonalities, but what they have in common, they have in common with almost all operating systems that aren't Windows.
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Well, you may ramble, claim invalid and irrelevant things and generally make a fool of yourself. Does not change the fact that you are wrong.
In order to be _fundamentally_ different, you need a different architecture. So Linux and Windows would be "fundamentally different", but even Linux and MacOS X would probably not be. That you like using idiotic hyperbole does not make you right in any way.
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Your dumb semantic argument doesn't make you smart enough to deserve down-modding me with sock puppets. In the context of [Linux distros] they're fundamentally different. In the context of [all operating systems] that wouldn't be as easy to claim, but that wasn't what we were talking about. You defined goal posts outside the playfield just so you could pretend you're smarter than all of us.
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(And by the way, that's fucking rude.)
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I reserve the right to be as rude as I like to big-ego idiots. Which you are.
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Oh yea, sure, I'm the big-ego idiot but you're the one having a argument over bullshit semantics while sporting your free karma-bonus modifier. Right. Ask yourself this: Do you think I really don't have one?
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Well, you need to work on your reaction when you get caught saying something dumb. By now I suspect you do so often, because you have a _fundamental_ problem there, namely you are clearly a Dunning-Kruger left-side case. try as you might, you are simply fundamentally wrong here.
Incidentally, I have never used sock-puppets for anything. I have personal integrity. You probably do not know what that is. Look it up.
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Unlike you, I wasn't using hyperbole. Nor did I get personal. I only stated facts.
I did include the fact that Mac OS X has more in common with both Debian and Arch than it does with Windows.
Even Android has more in common with Mac OS X than either does with Windows.
If you want a fundamentally different architecture, Debian supports more different architectures than Arch and Windows combined.
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And fail again. This is about _software_ architecure, not hardware architecture (of which Debian supports several).
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And for some reason you assume that Debian doesn't support more than one software architecture.
Time has changed, as have my views on WINE (Score:5, Interesting)
Used to I would say "If WINE is the answer, the question was stupid."
Some articles here on SlashDot also influenced my views on WINE. Some of those pointed out that OS/2 failed because it ran Windows software and if you can run the Windows version why bother making an OS/2 version?
What has really affected my view on WINE, especially when it comes to Windows gaming, is Linux games themselves.
I have long been a Linux gamer. I bought half of Loki's offerings back when they were around, I actually got in on the Ubuntu store when that was around and bought their games (that was a nightmare when you typed apt-get update). I am now in the GoG and Steam action for Linux games.
The very nature of Linux and the very nature of video games has let me down.
They're opposites. I have long told people you never learn Linux. As soon as you learn something they change the underlying software so what you know is now useless. Games on the other hand, they're release it and forget it sometimes, and that's not really a bad thing. Most of my old Linux games are incredibly difficult to play now. Too much has changed under them.
Take for instance Victor Vran. It's not that old of a game. I can (and have) download the version available on GoG right now and put it on my system. Errors galore. Turns out encryption and security stuff in Linux you wouldn't think a video game should need has improved, not the out of date game doesn't know how to run. I looked up fixes. These fixes largely center around getting out of date security components and putting them on your system, probably not the best of ideas. How did I get the game to run? I finally said "Fuck It' got the Windows version and I'm running it with Lutris using Steams Proton version of WINE but it's the GoG Windows version of the game.
I'm about ready to give up. Turns out games have to be actively maintained, the classic closed-source game release just doesn't work long term with Linux.
I am NOT a fan of Flat-Packs, Snaps, etc. However when I start to think of them as a game cartridge I begin to embrace them a bit. I still don't like typing "mount" and seeing hundreds of mounted file systems - I do use my computer as a work-horse and I don't need SNAPs mounted all over the damned place.
I think it's time we develop a "virtual game cartridge" (such a thing does exist for a tinyOS) for the modern era. I'm okay with it being a SNAP type thing, but we need a front end that mounts this shit on your OS and unmounts it when you're done. Only one at a time (unless you wanna pull a Sonic and Knuckles). Linux is it's own worse enemy when it comes to gaming.
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I never did totally buy the idea the Windows compatibility killed OS/2. It contributed, but IBM, MS, and a few others had at least as much to do with it. It's too bad, the competition was good for both of them.
I don't mind the mount output, and think that the SNAP/flatpack style setup is a decent way to go for things that are not distributed with the distro. I do think it would make sense to mount/unmount on demand though. And perhaps add an option to clean up mount output. I can see how it could be annoyin
I Don't Believe It (Score:2)
My luck running Windows games on Linux (Mint Cinnamon) with Steam has been, and continues to be, lousy. I've never had a single real success story to report. Examples: Civ 3 Complete gets through the setup screens but crashes when the game begins, Tempest 4000 crashes immediately, No Man's Sky installed and seemed to run OK at first but then spontaneously bogged down into a slideshow. At this point I can't see buying Windows game on Steam on the theory that it might turn out to be the first wonderful ex
Re:I Don't Believe It (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds like you have a particular bottle-neck in your system somewhere. The slideshow has me questioning if it's your GPU not being up to snuff (or possibly being in a single lane slot when it's a 4-lane card). Crashing as soon as the game begins and the Steam Interface becoming unresponsive causes me to question if maybe you've got a questionable stick or RAM.
My serious system is a Ryzen 7700x with an Nvidia GeForce 3060 and it runs most Windows games smooth as glass using either Lutris and whatever version of WINE I feed that game or running it from Steam. In most cases I may as well be running Windows though i do occasionally see something the reminds me I've got what amounts to a nasty hack turned elegant running.
My 11 year old Lenovo W540 on the other hand has an Nvidia Quadro (from the 11 years ago era) and an Intel video chip in it. Even at that age it runs MOST of the games I try to play on it rather well. Some games just won't load, the Nvidia chip doesn't have enough vRAM for some games to be happy and sometimes I'm just better off using the built in Intel chip for various reasons, but even THAT thing runs most of what I throw at it fine. I play modern 2D games - like the Shantea series just fine, even the graphically intense Cuphead and Giana Sisters games run great on it. I've done 3D as well, but granted it does best with previous gen 3D games.
Go to ProtonDB.com and do a system info dump - create an account and dig around, it will tell you how to do that. Copy/Paste the dump here. Turns out I deleted my laptop so I can't paste it, and my desktop dump is out of date, but who cares, I'll paste it here. Do the same, I'll look it over, maybe some of the other nerds too, and we'll see if we can't figure out why it sucks for you.
Desktop Dump
Computer Information:
Manufacturer: ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC.
Model: PRIME X670-P WIFI
Form Factor: Desktop
No Touch Input Detected
Processor Information:
CPU Vendor: AuthenticAMD
CPU Brand: AMD Ryzen 7 7700X 8-Core Processor
CPU Family: 0x19
CPU Model: 0x61
CPU Stepping: 0x2
CPU Type: 0x0
Speed: 5573 Mhz
16 logical processors
8 physical processors
HyperThreading: Supported
FCMOV: Supported
SSE2: Supported
SSE3: Supported
SSSE3: Supported
SSE4a: Supported
SSE41: Supported
SSE42: Supported
AES: Supported
AVX: Supported
AVX2: Supported
AVX512F: Supported
AVX512PF: Unsupported
AVX512ER: Unsupported
AVX512CD: Supported
AVX512VNNI: Supported
SHA: Supported
CMPXCHG16B: Supported
LAHF/SAHF: Supported
PrefetchW: Unsupported
Operating System Version:
KDE neon 5.26 (64 bit)
Kernel Name: Linux
Kernel Version: 5.15.0-1015-nvidia
X Server Vendor: The X.Org Foundation
X Server Release: 12101003
X Window Manager: KWin
Steam Runtime Version: steam-r
Steam ending Windoze 8 support (Score:2)
So I picked up a Steamdeck during the recent sale, performs slightly better than my tower (which I can't upgrade more).
Glad to have controller style access in addition to docking for keyboard/mouse and the gaming has been flawless.
That said, getting my three mouse buttons usable isn't seamless (but no option to use the five other buttons). Getting software installed is not turnkey. Even installing Arch Linux version of a utility doesn't completely function, it doesn't load its interface despite listing th