Six Ground-Breaking New Linux Laptops Released in the Last Two Weeks (beehiiv.com) 84
In the last two weeks, six new Linux laptops have hit the market (or were announced). "The Linux hardware scene is getting better by the day," writes the site FOSS Weekly:
- Star Labs teases its new StarFighter Linux Laptop with a 4K (10-bit IPS) display.
- MNT Research introduces a "more affordable" 7-inch mini Linux laptop, the MNT Pocket Reform.
- KDE's Slimbook 4 is here with AMD Ryzen 7 5700U processor and a better battery, starting from $1,000. "Buying from Slimbook supports KDE development too," notes Gaming on Linux, adding that there's a choice of 14 or 15.6 inch displays.
- TUXEDO's Pulse 15 — Gen2 (also with an AMD Ryzen 7 5700U processor) has a 15-inch HiDPI WQHD 165Hz display, along with eight cores and 16 threads. (And the Register notes its twin cooling fans, "allowing them to overclock the chip and run it at 35W," and a choice of distros.)
- Pre-orders have opened for the Roma — the first RISC-V Laptop (which may ship in September). Ars Technica reports they're offering "free Silicon upgrades" — that is free system-on-a-chip and system-on-module upgrades for its quad-core RISC-V CPU. And there's also a companion NPU/GPU, notes a blog post at RISCV.org, "for the fastest, seamless RISC-V native software development available." (As well as "early access to next-generation laptop and accessory upgrades at generous discounts or for free.") The blog post calls it a "Web3-friendly platform with NFT creation and publication plus integrated MetaMask-style wallet."
- System 76's "Lemur" Alder Lake- and coreboot-powered laptop arrives with 14 hours of battery life.
Good news, everybody! (Score:4, Interesting)
Okay, so I picked the Tuxedo model for no particular reason. Other than a penguin on what would have been the windows key, nothing seems particularly ground breaking. Except...
- no disclaimers about limited support for linux
- pretty reasonable documentation base
- decent job of handling the driver ecosystem
- no immediate red flags
Seems like an honest effort to create a decent user experience. In fact, the best thing I can say about it is that it appears... routine. And that's not just fine - it's preferable.
What's not to like? I'm sure the folks here will tell me.
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Okay, so I picked the Tuxedo model for no particular reason. ...
Ya, but can their specs be trusted. Just look at the screenshot on their page [tuxedocomputers.com] (center, right). They've simply hard-coded the specs:
var highres_screen = true;
var highly_efficient_AMD_Ryzen = true;
var huge_battery = true;
var quiet_cooling = true;
var UBC-C_with_DisplayPort = true;
Who knows what's really in that thing! :-)
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Static site generators are great.
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var UBC-C_with_DisplayPort = true;
Who knows what's in that thing, indeed.
I'm unfamiliar with UBC (in this context), and I can't for the life of me imagine why they're assigning true to C_with_DisplayPort subtracted from it, or what they hope that to accomplish.
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I was a little concerned about some of their market-speak when I read deeper into their specs.
= runtimes of up to 18 hours (idle mode with minimum display brightness).
In practical use with medium display brightness and 1080p video streaming runtimes of up to 10 hours can be expected.
= Screen defective pixels (per million pixels) Totals shown are for 3.86M pixels:
Error typ 1: persistent pixel = 7, Error typ 2: permanently black pixel = 7, Error typ 3: defective subpixel either
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While I generally don't do that for the battery, I have used it while waiting in the hospital for several hours without any problems.
No dimming of the screen, wifi active, VM's running, IDE running, etc.
While it won't get 18 hours under load, it should last an entire workday
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Using "var" implies to me that they may change while I'm using it. I'd be really disappointed when they suddenly set highly_efficient_AMD_Ryzen to false.
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It looks really great and then they went and made a bizzaro keyboard layout with the enter key all wrong and who knows where pipe and backslash went.
They're trying to make us keyboard warriors crazy.
Standards (Score:4, Interesting)
Even with laptops (Score:3)
Even with laptops Linux geeks that can't work together to create one or two really good distributions that work, and everything is bulletproof and doesn't need users to tweak configuration files, they have to make a multitude of laptops that are all 70% and are a pain in the ass to use.
MOD parent UP: Create a good Linux distribution. (Score:1)
Re:Even with laptops (Score:4, Informative)
There are dozens of "really good distributions that work". Pick one.
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There are dozens of "really good distributions that work". Pick one.
That's actually the hard part. It typically involves a lot of distro hopping and I am not a fan.
Or, you can pick the distribution you are familiar with, or something more bare bone like Debian or Arch and tweak the config files. That's what I do.
These Linux laptops are usually pre-installed with a distro that is compatible with all your laptop hardware, so you have that part done for you, and it is great. However, software-wise, it may not fit you (ex: gaming), or you may have a peripheral that don't work.
Re: Even with laptops (Score:2)
No he's not wrong how is a lid switch so out of the ordinary that a text file has to be edited in 2022
Theres always fucking something that doesn't work in Linux and its always some piddle shit thing wasting your time
You can take a big standard no frills office box and something fuckin dumb isn't going to work and thats the first cut
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He and you are both wrong and lazy. There is no excuse in 2022 or 2012 or 2002 for that matter on buying anything new that isn't fully supported in Linux. The fully documented lists have been out that long! Linux on laptop site .net started in 1995! I've never had a problem.
Used laptops are the only possible challenge.
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So they do this trouble for you.
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No, instead I went out and bought a Thinkpad, loaded Ubuntu on it and moved on my merry way.
Perhaps not buying a Linux hostile laptop may have been better for you. The reason you have to make changes like that is because your hardware vendor did things which are non-standard, and so have to be dealt with. The vendor also gave you drivers that managed that behavior in Windows, so you don't even notice that it was done in non-standard ways.
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This is why, as a Linux user, I wouldn't recommend people install Linux. Unless they have done their research and bought the correct supported hardware they're likely to run into issues.
Wierdly in the mid 'aughts I don't remember this really being an issue (at least for desktops), things seem to have gotten worse - maybe it's the advent of things like wifi becoming pretty standard in modern desktops.
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Of course they can. We have worked together to produce multiple good ones ;)
They are all subpar (Score:2)
Why choose subpar hardware?
Linux support for most laptops hasn't been an issue, and it isn't enough of an issue to buy from these companies most of which have no real track record.
Why not just get better hardware from a more establish company? Something like the Asus ExpertBook (24 hour battery, weighs less than a pound, charges with a USB-C cable only (no block), built in display port/hdmi/ethernet etc) or one of the smaller Dell XPS models?
To support Linux? Linux is fine. Don't confuse "supporting linux"
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Exactly, the price is jacked up higher than if it had Windows.
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Economies of scale are a thing, both for NRE and recurring costs. A huge company like Dell or HP or Lenovo can churn out a new laptop by consulting hundreds of similar designs they've done in the past, and then order parts in thousand-unit and larger quantities. A boutique builder, whether they're Linux-based or have any other specialty, can't do either of those things.
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I'd be surprised if any of these guys were building those laptops themselves, or doing the full design themselves.
More likely they went to an OEM in China and specified certain components, keyboard layout, ports and so forth. The OEM customized one of their existing designs for them.
The exception is that RISC V one. Maybe they did the motherboard. It will be a low power chip, relatively speaking, so the cooling and power supply design are much simpler. I bet the case is OEM though.
Re:They are all subpar (Score:5, Insightful)
>"Why not just get better hardware from a more establish company? Something like the Asus ExpertBook (24 hour battery, weighs less than a pound, charges with a USB-C cable only (no block), built in display port/hdmi/ethernet etc) ?"
Because you don't know if it can or will work properly under Linux when you get it. For example, I just looked at that Asus ExpertBook B1. Asus doesn't mention or list Linux anywhere. I would be forced to subsidize Microsoft and yet no know if the touchpad work right? WiFi? Web Cam? Ethernet port? Microphone? Sleep mode? F-key toggle? 3D graphics? Card reader? It is very common for newer laptops to have "gotchas" in them that haven't been worked out under Linux yet. I have had many laptops over the years, not a single one of them, new, worked 100% with Linux. Not one. There was always something unsupported or flaky, at least for a while, sometimes years.
Like you, I would rather buy a "regular" new model laptop, I just wish there were GOOD resources for knowing how it will work under Linux. So these "Linux Laptop" companies are just saying "hey, we KNOW everything on these will work properly with Linux." And if you call support because something seems to be broken, they won't hang up on you if you are not using MS-Windows, or send you some stupid EXE file you must run for diagnostics, or firmware, or documentation. And that does have value to many people.
Could HP/Dell/Asus/Lenovo/etc do that? Sure. But, generally, they don't. And when they rarely do, they pick only one or a few models, not likely being the one you want. And sometimes they even cost more for the privilege of not being forced to send some of your money to Redmond.
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To make matters worse, you often won't get detailed specs... Eg you will be told "802.11ax wifi" but not what chipset it uses, and the manufacturer might change the chipset for each batch so two laptops with the part number can have two different chipsets for a specific component.
Different models of component are not directly equivalent. Some don't have linux drivers, some have unreliable drivers even for windows, some are unreliable or buggy at the hardware level, performance varies, power consumption vari
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It does matter, on linux the chipset might make the difference between "has drivers available" and "no drivers", but on windows while you're guaranteed to have some semblance of drivers for the preinstalled version it can still significantly affect performance, power usage, heat buildup, stability etc.
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>"
This isn't reddit.
Asus doesn't mention or list Linux anywhere
So what? They don't need to. It's not relevant to 95% of the demographic they are trying to sell to.
*Most* hardware works anyway, and it's not hard to spend 5 minutes searching for any problems that may be present, and in general hardware support isn't a problem anymore.
I would be forced to subsidize Microsoft
So? You subsidize the R/MPAA everytime you buy media. Who cares. It's the price you actually pay that counts, not how it is divided up. Besides, you can always sue to regain the cost of that license if you really care that
Not wanting to fund anti-user lobbying (Score:2)
You subsidize the R/MPAA everytime you buy media. Who cares. It's the price you actually pay that counts, not how it is divided up.
How it is divided up matters to people who do not want to financially support companies with a documented history of lobbying national governments for greater restrictions on individual users. To many people, "we don't want a cent of the purchase price going toward the next SOPA" is a consideration.
Re:Linux laptop (Score:5, Informative)
Ah, you've never been the first to get a laptop's hardware fully working under Linux and had to send the patches upstream. Days usually, if the drivers even exist for the chipsets and no blobs are required.
On the other hand, most two year old laptops are just fine and a great value. Because someone else has done the work.
When HP tests their hardware with linux and advertises it that way, then you'll know it's a linux laptop.
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I've long since given up using Linux on laptops, and I've been running Linux since 1991. I just run Windows and use Linux inside a VirtualBox virtual machine.
I can't be bothered with drivers and "send[ing] patches upstream," as you say. Closing my laptop lid at night and waking up to a dead battery only happens twice before you know something's desperately wrong with Linux on laptops, and don't get me started on CPU power management and crappy accelerated graphics drivers.
Life is too short to tolerate Lin
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To be fair, modern hybrid sleep or whatever they call it on Windows has been broken for a couple of years too. It sometimes works but there is a decent chance you will open your bag to find a red hot laptop and dead battery waiting for you.
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Life is too short to tolerate Linux on a laptop.
Life is too short to tolerate anything else on a laptop.
I buy well supported, quality laptops and it works just fine. You get better long term support too: my laptop is apparently 3 years away from being EOL'd by Microsoft. In fairness, it might not survive until then, but if it does, I'll probably still be running Ubuntu 18.04. If it makes it to the EOL of that (2028), then I can definitely install 22.04, no word on whether 26.04 will support it.
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I haven't had to do that since the 90s...
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It used to be the case that Linux laptops were often just the Windows versions with some hardware removed because there was no Linux support for it. Lenovo did that, don't know if they still do but you would get a Linux Thinkpad that was identical to the Windows one, only they removed the fingerprint sensor, NFC, SSD encryption and anything else they couldn't get a Linux driver for.
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Quit being a contrary cunt. We all know what the subject means.
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Nope, been using Linux on laptops for 24 years and haven't had a problem. Pretty easy to buy what is known to support Linux and there are a lot to choose from.
It's like you whiners won't lift a finger to make sure you're buying the right thing.
I just realized, you're a prime candidate for Windows. Or Mac.
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I assume 100% working since it is preinstalled with working hardwares with their drivers.
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But do any have touch screens? (Score:3)
Re:But do any have touch screens? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do you want to get fingerprints all over the thing you look at all day long? And doesn't the act of touching put your fingers themselves in the way of what you're seeing?
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"Never stopped Jean-Luc Picard or any of the other Star Trek characters."
Newsflash: Picard and the rest are fictional, and so the computers they use. They're designed to look good on screen, not to be usable. What they do in the show can not be replicated in real life. Every attempt to create an LCARS UI skin has been a miserable failure. There's a reason for that.
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I always thought having weapons activated by touch controls was a bad idea.
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I always thought having weapons activated by touch controls was a bad idea.
Quite: it forces them to get close to the exploding consoles. At least with voice activation they could stand a safe distance away,
Blame Paramount (Score:2)
Every attempt to create an LCARS UI skin has been a miserable failure. There's a reason for that.
And last time I checked, the policy implemented by Paramount's legal department was one of the reasons that a skin emulating LCARS UI was impractical. See a comment by Marxist Hacker [slashdot.org].
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For most use cases I really don't get the appeal of touchscreen laptops.
I remember when touchscreens started becoming common in the Windows world. I'd watch people using them - they'd be working fairly quickly with their keyboard and trackpad, then it was as if they shifted into slow motion whenever they had to reach out for a target on the screen. Maybe it makes sense on a convertible laptop; but in general it's hard to see how the touchscreen is preferable to clicking with the trackpad.
Re: But do any have touch screens? (Score:1)
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But one thing I've learned, is that a lot of evil happens in the world of desktop development because people think they know the best workflow for everyone else.
So I say keep adding those touchscreens. If they're functional for
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That's one of the first things I disable on laptops.
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Exactly, I don't buy laptops without touchscreens anymore. Yeah it's impractical for most of today's applications, but I need one for testing and prototyping touch UIs anyway. (If Apple can pull it off, why can't the open source community?) My favorite laptop design is the Thinkpad Helix, but my 2013 model got long in the tooth, always generated too much heat for its size, and the display is not as good as today's models. What I want is a detachable like the Helix, with an ergo keyboard layout (reduced
Why? (Score:2)
The 6000 series started shipping (in tiny quantities) in Feb and are now getting wider releases. There's nothing wrong with the 5000 series CPUs, it's just kind of dumb to not use the latest tech that's significantly more power efficient for "high end" laptops.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Why are they releasing new laptops with AMD's 2021 CPUs in them?
Well one of them has a RISC-V but performance is probably going to be pretty awful and it won't run x86 software (unless there's some decent Rosetta2-style emulation they're doing?), but hey they're marketing it as a "Web3-friendly platform with NFT creation and publication plus integrated MetaMask-style wallet", so I guess if you want one of whatever that is then this is the laptop for you!
Think of the potential profits! (Score:1)
Comparison with existing products? (Score:2)
You're paying for a warranty (Score:2)
Most are probably on-the-curve laptops shipped with a warranty that the hardware supports X11/Linux. What you pay for is the warranty.
Umm, quick question. (Score:2)
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You do realize that the so called "Microsoft Tax" you mention is exactly the opposite - right? Microsoft and all the other Window Based Utils and Apps PAY to have their software installed on the laptop you're buying - therefore REDUCING the end cost you pay. When you buy a Linux only laptop, not only is the cost higher because they manufacture a piddling small amount of units, but they also don't have any of the deep pocket software vendors bribing their way onto the linux laptop. Personally, I'll buy a
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You do realize that the so called "Microsoft Tax" you mention is exactly the opposite - right? Microsoft and all the other Window Based Utils and Apps PAY to have their software installed on the laptop you're buying - therefore REDUCING the end cost you pay.
So you're saying Microsoft actually loses money from OEMs because they are the ones that pay the OEMs for the software and not the other way around? Windows laptops are cheaper beause of economies of scale around drivers, testing and support.
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Wouldn't it be better to put this time and effort into Linux divers that support hardware that already exists?
There are two approaches. One is to obtain the hardware first and then create Linux support for the hardware. This fails when the manufacturer of a component refuses to offer adequate documentation. The other is to deliberately choose components from cooperative manufacturers, as demonstrated by the products described in the featured article.
Other than MNT are any of these open hardware? (Score:2)
Don't buy Tuxedo (Score:2)
These are just Clevo laptops. Mine comes with a finger print reader that will never be supported by linux.
The company is a joke. To download drivers you need to log in andmfind yourmorder... only sometimes your account jist happens to vanish.
I am now running Win10 on my 'linux' laptop... it's the only windows in my household.
Erm (Score:2)
And of the list, the slimbook looks fine I guess though I bet the hardware is just some OEM laptop. Some of the others like ROMA look like vaporware, and I would describe the MNT Pocket as a sick joke.
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And you can blame them if something breaks.
For an end user maybe not so important, but for contractors/companies?
And... Slow clap (Score:2)
Where are the mouse buttons? (Score:3)
None of these laptops appear to have any mouse buttons. I try to turn off tap to click on laptops I use that have trackpads because I don't like how I can accidentally click when moving the mouse (or even if my thumb gets too close to the trackpad). Plus, I like to do silly things like right click and middle click, as I am using Linux after all. With two mouse buttons, a middle click can be done by pushing both at the same time. Other than pasting in X, middle clicking is good for opening links in new tabs and for closing tabs.
So a question for those who have one of these zero button laptops that everyone is selling now -- how do you actually use it? I've heard you can two finger right click, but that seems awkward and unreliable. Do you just not middle click and suffer through alternatives? Do you have to keep an external mouse all the time?
It seems silly, but the user input and one of the most important aspects of a laptop for me, and every laptop I look at is substandard in this regard.
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So a question for those who have one of these zero button laptops that everyone is selling now -- how do you actually use it? I've heard you can two finger right click, but that seems awkward and unreliable. Do you just not middle click and suffer through alternatives? Do you have to keep an external mouse all the time?
You can multi-finger click for middle and right click. Takes some getting used to. Personally, I like me some buttons, but it's actually not bad when you get used to it. It doesn't tend to be
What I Want (Score:2)
But will they run Windows? (Score:2)
I figured that people ask if Windows laptops will run Linux it is only fair to ask if Linux laptops will run Windows.
8^)
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Probably, but nobody is going to pay extra for a Linux laptop and put Windows on it.
I bought an old Chromebook and put Kubuntu on it, because it was never dirtied by Windows.
nipples? (Score:2)