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Linux Apple Hardware

Linux For M1 Macs? First Alpha Release Announced for Asahi Linux (asahilinux.org) 108

Posted by EditorDavid from the ARM-wrestling dept.
"Asahi Linux aims to bring you a polished Linux experience on Apple Silicon Macs," explains the project's web site.

And now that first Asahi Linux alpha release is out — ready for testing on M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max machines (except Mac Studio): We're really excited to finally take this step and start bringing Linux on Apple Silicon to everyone. This is only the beginning, and things will move even more quickly going forward!

Keep in mind that this is still a very early, alpha release. It is intended for developers and power users; if you decide to install it, we hope you will be able to help us out by filing detailed bug reports and helping debug issues. That said, we welcome everyone to give it a try — just expect things to be a bit rough.... Asahi Linux is developed by a group of volunteers, and led by marcan as his primary job. You can support him directly via Patreon and GitHub Sponsors....

Can I dual-boot macOS and Linux?

Yes! In fact, we expect you to do that, and the installer doesn't support replacing macOS at this point. This is because we have no mechanism for updating system firmware from Linux yet, and until we do it makes sense to keep a macOS install lying around for that. You can have as many macOS and Linux installs as you want, and they will all play nicely and show up in Apple's boot picker. Each Linux install acts as a self-contained OS and should not interfere with the others.

Note that keeping a macOS install around does mean you lose ~70GB of disk space (in order to allow for updates, since the macOS updater is quite inefficient). In the future we expect to have a mechanism for firmware updates from Linux and better integration, at which point we'll be comfortable recommending Linux-only setups....

Is this just Arch Linux ARM?

Pretty much! Most of our work is in the kernel and a few core support packages, and we rely on Linux's excellent existing ARM64 support. The Asahi Linux reference distro images are based off of Arch Linux ARM and simply add our own package repository, which only adds a few packages. You can freely convert between Arch Linux ARM and Asahi Linux by adding or removing this repository and the relevant packages, although vanilla Arch Linux ARM kernels will not boot on these machines at this time.
The project's home page adds that "All contributors are welcome, of any skill level!"

"Doing this requires a tremendous amount of work, as Apple Silicon is an entirely undocumented platform," the team explains. "In particular, we will be reverse engineering the Apple GPU architecture and developing an open-source driver for it." But they're already documenting the Apple Silicon platform on their GitHub wiki. We will eventually release a remix of Arch Linux ARM, packaged for installation by end-users, as a distribution of the same name. The majority of the work resides in hardware support, drivers, and tools, and it will be upstreamed to the relevant projects....

Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon Macs without a jailbreak! This isn't a hack or an omission, but an actual feature that Apple built into these devices. That means that, unlike iOS devices, Apple does not intend to lock down what OS you can use on Macs (though they probably won't help with the development). As long as no code is taken from macOS to build the Linux support, the result is completely legal to distribute and for end-users to use, as it would not be a derivative work of macOS.
An interesting observataion from Slashdot reader mrwireless: It once again seems Apple is informally supportive of these efforts, as the recent release of OS Monterey 12.3 makes the process even simpler. As Twitter user Matthew Garrett writes:

"People who hate UEFI should read https://github.com/AsahiLinux/... — Apple made deliberate design choices that allow third party OSes to run on M1 hardware without compromising security, and with much less closed code than on basically any modern x86."
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Linux For M1 Macs? First Alpha Release Announced for Asahi Linux More

Linux For M1 Macs? First Alpha Release Announced for Asahi Linux

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  • The Ultimate Oxymoron (Score:4, Funny)

    by rudy_wayne ( 414635 ) on Saturday March 19, 2022 @01:50PM (#62372253)
    "a polished Linux experience "

    Or maybe they meant to say a Polish Linux Experience?
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        Mac people have a hard time believing that more people use Linux for a desktop than Mac. With the release of native M1 distro, it will be interesting to see how many people use Linux on the M1 hardware vs MacOS.

        • Mac people have a hard time believing that more people use Linux for a desktop than Mac.

          Don't know what you're smoking but every bit of data I can find shows way more Mac users.

          https://gs.statcounter.com/os-... [statcounter.com]
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
          https://earthweb.com/operating... [earthweb.com]

        • According to Statista, in December 2021 the desktop operating system marketshare was:

          73.71% Windows
          15.33% macOS
          2.09% Linux
          2.18% Chrome OS
          6.68% Others/Unknown

        • maybe that's because they are right...

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jwhyche ( 6192 )

            Well if you want to believe they are right, go for it. Many people believe in things that are not true. As I said in another thread, "If you are going to have delusions, might as well make them grand."

            Back to the original question. Now that I think about it I really don't see a native Linux being that much of a threat to a M1 based MacOS. Most Mac user buy Mac because they want the Apple experience. Where most Linux users want better hardware support as well as better diversity of said hardware.

            • Well if you want to believe they are right, go for it.

              It's not a matter of "belief". There is evidence that there are more desktop Mac users than Linux desktop users. Theses are facts. Server-wise Linux has more installations than any other OS, but not for desktop usage.

              Many people believe in things that are not true. As I said in another thread, "If you are going to have delusions, might as well make them grand."

              That seems to describe you more than anything else.

        • Mac people have a hard time believing that more people use Linux for a desktop than Mac.
          That is incorrect. You have a hard time proving such nonsense.

          With the release of native M1 distro, it will be interesting to see how many people use Linux on the M1 hardware vs MacOS.
          We use both obviously.

          Buying a Mac to run only Linux on it is as stupid as buying a Mac to only run Windows on it.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jwhyche ( 6192 )

            That is incorrect. You have a hard time proving such nonsense.

            Still having problems with reality are we? Believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to believe that Mac desktops are 20%, 50%, or hell, 98% of the market, go for it. I know of at least one Amiga owner who thinks the Amiga is going to make a staggering come back. If you want to live in some fantasy where Macs dominate, be my guest.

            • No, you're just wrong [statcounter.com] and refuse to admit it.

              . If you want to believe that Mac desktops are 20%, 50%, or hell, 98% of the market, go for it.

              On desktop, Windows is about 75% and MacOS is about 16%. Linux is about 2% These are facts. You seem to want to ignore basic facts.

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by jwhyche ( 6192 )

                Wrong.

                • You seem like you are just full of denial aren't you?

                  • Dude haven't you seen the store shelves lately? Full of unsold Windows and Mac machines!

                    Why do you think there are no Linux machines to be found there? Because they are all sold out! They sell out as soon as they try to put them on the shelves so that's why they're nowhere to be seen. Trust me though, everybody uses Linux on the desktop, it's just a tiny minority of people clinging to the past that use Windows and Mac.

                    • LMAO. I have NEVER seen a Linux machine for sell by any major retail business, including Best Buy and others ! What kinda drugs are you on ?

                    • Dude haven't you seen the store shelves lately? Full of unsold Windows and Mac machines!

                      Why do you think there are no Linux machines to be found there? Because they are all sold out! They sell out as soon as they try to put them on the shelves so that's why they're nowhere to be seen. Trust me though, everybody uses Linux on the desktop, it's just a tiny minority of people clinging to the past that use Windows and Mac.

                      Wow!

                      Put down the pipe, willya?

                      Prove it, or STFU.

                    • You forgot the sarcasm tag.

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by jeremyp ( 130771 )

                      Woosh

                      [some other crap to get through the filter]

                    • Feel like your sarcasm detector may have run out juice there, my friend ;)

                    • LMAO.

                      Glad you enjoyed it. I know this is Slashdot so perhaps I misjudged the level of whackjobs around, I'll strive to do better and add the sarcasm tag next time.

                    • Indeed I did! Sometimes I forget that this is slashdot - a haven for many disconnected from reality - and that some participants here genuinely espouse views like that :P

                      I feel like I'm doing a kind of "sarcasm apology tour" here now.

                    • Feel like your sarcasm detector may have run out juice there, my friend ;)

                      Been a long day!

                      Car troubles

            • Still having problems with reality are we? Believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to believe that Mac desktops are 20%, 50%, or hell, 98% of the market, go for it.

              Yes! I personally prefer to believe what you believe which is that Linux is 98% desktop market share while Windows and macOS fight over the remaining 2%. The Year of the Linux Desktop arrived a decade ago, nobody is using Windows or macOS anymore. The reason why you don't see any Linux desktops and laptops on store shelves is because they have all sold out and only the Windows machines and Macs that nobody wants remain available. Microsoft and Apple are on death's door!

              • Still having problems with reality are we? Believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to believe that Mac desktops are 20%, 50%, or hell, 98% of the market, go for it.

                Yes! I personally prefer to believe what you believe which is that Linux is 98% desktop market share while Windows and macOS fight over the remaining 2%. The Year of the Linux Desktop arrived a decade ago, nobody is using Windows or macOS anymore. The reason why you don't see any Linux desktops and laptops on store shelves is because they have all sold out and only the Windows machines and Macs that nobody wants remain available. Microsoft and Apple are on death's door!

                I think somebody forgot a sarcasm tag.

          • Mac people have a hard time believing that more people use Linux for a desktop than Mac.
            That is incorrect. You have a hard time proving such nonsense.

            With the release of native M1 distro, it will be interesting to see how many people use Linux on the M1 hardware vs MacOS.
            We use both obviously.

            Buying a Mac to run only Linux on it is as stupid as buying a Mac to only run Windows on it.

            So, multiple sources with no dog in the fight agree that there are many more Mac desktops than Linux; but you (with no factual backup) still bleat that they are all wrong.

            Got it!

            • So, multiple sources with no dog in the fight agree that there are many more Mac desktops than Linux;
              There is no such source. As no one can know how many of each kind exist.

              • So, multiple sources with no dog in the fight agree that there are many more Mac desktops than Linux;
                There is no such source. As no one can know how many of each kind exist.

                IIRC, they estimate from Browser traffic.

                • Yes, but that is not a very reliable way of measuring.
                  However I agree that there are most likely many more Mac-PCs than Linux-PCs.

                  • Yes, but that is not a very reliable way of measuring.
                    However I agree that there are most likely many more Mac-PCs than Linux-PCs.

                    Unfortunately, considering the completely decentralized way that Linux is Distributed, it is likely as accurate as it gets.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by dhuv ( 241988 )

          I think that most people who buy Macs will continue to run MacOS.

          I used Linux on the desktop since 1998 and finally got a Mac from work in about 2013. My wife always had a Mac so I knew how to use it but I always had hardware meant for Linux (Thinkpad). Running Linux on the Mac was terrible (even with slightly older hardware). Two really big reasons: 1. Battery life. 2. Trackpad.

          After I got my Mac, I did miss some customization options but soon realized how well the Mac desktop works. They have added quite

      • Re:The Ultimate Oxymoron (Score:4, Informative)

        by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Saturday March 19, 2022 @02:19PM (#62372323)

        Ubuntu still does buggy things even after three years of updates. Open office or Libre office or whatever ships with Ubuntu will disappear if you minimize the window. It won’t show up on the taskbar, but hit the windows key to see all open programs and it’s there. My scroll bar regularly disappears in Chrome until the window is resized and then the bar is magically back. On every laptop in the company if you change the IP address it won’t take effect until you click the switch to disable and reenable the interface. Dumb shit like that.

      • Sleep/Hibernate still is a game of chance. Video drivers are limited in performance and function and only feature a subset of their usable, Windows counterpart, and people are STILL having the same graphical problems decades later with a black screen when starting X11, incorrect/broken display modes, shoddy multi-monitor support. Playing a Bluray is so tedious, almost no one does it. Backward compatibility is a turd like its always been, let alone cross-distro compatibility, so hopelessly inadequate, produc

        • To be fair, unless you're putting together a HTPC or something that's expected to play physical BluRay discs, not many PC owners even bother with BluRay (or, *gasp* DVD) anymore.

        • Sleep/Hibernate still is a game of chance.

          No moreso than anywhere else. I've not had a Linux machine have a problem with it in probably 10 years. On the other hand my office mate's windows desktop...

          Video drivers are limited in performance and function and only feature a subset of their usable, Windows counterpart,

          I don't, personally, know a single person who uses high end NVidia GPUs on Windows. Sure the people I know using top end ones like 3090s and V100s in the cloud are doing deep learning, but Window

  • FYI- using UTM (https://mac.getutm.app), I was able to run ARM versions of Debian, Ubuntu, ArchLinux and (ugh) Amazon Linux 2 at near native speeds on an M1 Pro. Sure the graphics may not be optimized, but pure computation and/or non-gui installs ran quite well.

    Apple supplies the Virtualization framework now which may be a better way of going about this. Their sample code for doing Linux only supports console (no graphics).

  • At some point Apple will have its own post-ARM proprietary CPU instruction set. It is only a matter of time.

    Then what?

    Tim Cook does not care about Linux. What interest does Apple have with sticking to ARM? Eventually they will extend it.

    • I am not sure what difference that makes for extending ARM instructions when the core of macOS and the toolchain for compiling software is all open source anyway?
      • My understanding that while Darwin is open source, Apple does not necessarily release all MacOS APIs through Darwin. I have not worked on Darwin to know how much of it encompasses MacOS.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jeremyp ( 130771 )

          The macOS APIs are totally irrelevant if you're compiling an alternative operating system kernel.

          • The APIs are relevant if the hardware has functions which are not exposed in Darwin but does exist in MacOS. For example, M1 and Apple AX chips have hardware encoding/decoding of h264. If Apple does not release them in Darwin, how does an alternative OS kernel use them?

    • An ISA change seems unlikely in the foreseeable future. It's no easy task to make such a change. ARM seems to be working pretty well for them, and I'm sure Apple will stick with it unless there comes a good reason to change, as they did with m68k, PPC, x86, then ARM. Around 11 years for PPC, 16 years for Intel, and now ARM. Even if ARM is extended, the architectural licence requires cores to be compliant with ARM architecture.

      Tim Cook doesn't need to care about Linux. Apple still sells a Mac, and it's tiny

    • At some point Apple will have its own post-ARM proprietary CPU instruction set. It is only a matter of time.

      Then what?

      Nothing? You build from source, then make an installer ... and we right where we are right now.

      • Their code will likely be encrypted too by that time, similar to AMD SEV. So there will be nothing to reverse engineer without getting the decryption key out of the hardware.

  • First reaction , good . secound thought "they're letting the riff raff in".
    Time will tell

    • First reaction , good . secound thought "they're letting the riff raff in".

      It's been possible to run Linux on Mac devices for at least 20 years. With a boot manager like rEFInd [wikipedia.org], you've already been able put most any distro you want on an Intel Mac - my 2015 MacBook Pro has dual-booted Mint for some years. Back in the PowerPC days, Yellow Dog Linux was well known.

  • Linux For M1 Macs

    Why bother making that? I mean, besides the ubiquitous "because we can". I honestly can't imagine a usage case with enough users to justify the porting effort. Anyone who wants to run Linux knows that you can buy three of literally any other piece of hardware with better performance specs for the same price. So you are limited to, what, the segment of Mac users who were given one by a well-meaning relative who thought "more munnies must means better" and who then wants to use the computer for something

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 )

      I think, right now, "because we can" is the best answer. Most Mac M1 buyers are going to buy M1s because they want the MacOS experience and Apples support. I honestly can't see anyone running out and buying such limited hardware as M1 Mac to run Linux on it. Not when there systems out there that are not as limited, have better performance, while being better priced.

      Now down the road several years, when Apple abandons support for M1 Macs, I can see people turning to a Linux based distro to get more use

      • . I honestly can't see anyone running out and buying such limited hardware as M1 Mac to run Linux on it. Not when there systems out there that are not as limited, have better performance, while being better priced.

        Can you list such a system that you have mentioned that satisfies all 3 of the criteria you've oulined?

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by jwhyche ( 6192 )

          Virtually any Ryzen 3 R7/R9 system.

          • So list one then.

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by jwhyche ( 6192 )

              I guess you didn't get the memo. I no longer do peoples research for them. Open your browser, go to Amazon or Newegg and type in the search "Ryzen 3." Limit your search to r7 or r9 systems. You will get a whole list of them that answer your question.

              • "I no longer do peoples research for them."

                So, make a claim with no evidence, brush off demands to pony up with "look it up yourself."

                Got it.

              • I guess you didn't get the memo. I no longer do peoples research for them.

                You made the assertion that "Virtually any Ryzen 3 R7/R9 system" was "not as limited, have better performance, while being better priced". Now you are saying you will not back up what you wrote..

                Open your browser, go to Amazon or Newegg and type in the search "Ryzen 3." Limit your search to r7 or r9 systems. You will get a whole list of them that answer your question.

                This is called shifting the burden.

                • Re: (Score:3)

                  by jwhyche ( 6192 )

                  Your question was answered to my satisfaction. There is no reason for me to do otherwise. I showed you how to get the information you asked for. That too, is enough for the reasons of answering your question.

                  If you chose not to take advantage of that. I fail to see why that is my problem.

                  • Your question was answered to my satisfaction.

                    What question? You made an assertion. You will not back up your assertion when asked for evidence.

                    There is no reason for me to do otherwise.

                    Other than supporting your assertion with evidence? Otherwise we will have to assume you will present no evidence of your assertion.

                    I showed you how to get the information you asked for. That too, is enough for the reasons of answering your question.

                    No you did not. You shifted the burden of proof when asked for evidence.

                    If you chose not to take advantage of that. I fail to see why that is my problem.

                    Take advantage of what? You made an assertion and when asked for evidence, you are dodging it. That is YOUR problem. Given your reluctance to present any evidence, can we assume you will never present any? Ca

                    • Re: (Score:3)

                      by jwhyche ( 6192 )

                      Whatever. You have been given the instructions to answer your own question. I see no reason to continue here.

                    • Your continued reluctance to list any "any Ryzen 3 R7/R9 system" only underscores you will not support your assertion when given multiple opportunities. We can only assume that you not know of any evidence or that you know that no such evidence exists. Ignorance or dishonesty, which one is it?

                    • Whatever. You have been given the instructions to answer your own question. I see no reason to continue here.

                      You are pathetic.

                      STFU and GTFO.

                    • https://www.merriam-webster.co... [merriam-webster.com]

                      SRSLY.

                    • How is his behavior not shifting the burden of proof? If there is ample evidence that "any Ryzen 7/9" build does what he claims, it should be easy.

                  • Your question was answered to my satisfaction. There is no reason for me to do otherwise. I showed you how to get the information you asked for. That too, is enough for the reasons of answering your question.

                    If you chose not to take advantage of that. I fail to see why that is my problem.

                    Hahahahahahahaha!!!

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by jeremyp ( 130771 )

                    There is no reason for me to do otherwise.

                    There is one reason which is: you don't want everybody else to think you're full of shit.

              • I guess you didn't get the memo. I no longer do peoples research for them. Open your browser, go to Amazon or Newegg and type in the search "Ryzen 3." Limit your search to r7 or r9 systems. You will get a whole list of them that answer your question.

                You are the one that made the claim. Now that someone calls you on it, you try to hide behind typical Hater behavior.

                Pathetic. But all too typical.

            • Lenovo IdeaCentre.

              • Please list which one that is "not as limited, have better performance, while being better priced" than a M1 Mac. The only Ryzen 3 R7 is priced at nearly $1k which is more than the cheapest M1 Mac. The lowest desktop Lenovo do not have processors that would have "better performance" than an M1

                • Better performance at what exactly? Running x264/x265? Cross compilation? The 5600G IdeaCentre 5 will likely beat the Mac Mini comfortably and is cheaper.

                  Not at lower power consumption, but gotta make some compromises to work on an open system which won't almost certainly pull the rug out from under you in the future. Tying the success of open source computing to Apple is fucking retarded.

                  • Better performance at what exactly? Running x264/x265? Cross compilation? The 5600G IdeaCentre 5 will likely beat the Mac Mini comfortably and is cheaper.

                    CPU Monkey says not "comfortably" as it depends on the benchmark. [cpu-monkey.com]

                    Nanoreview [nanoreview.net] says the same thing.

                    Not at lower power consumption, but gotta make some compromises to work on an open system which won't almost certainly pull the rug out from under you in the future. Tying the success of open source computing to Apple is fucking retarded.

                    Apple releases open source Darwin for all MacOS versions

                    • The second link is for Max, no Mac Mini for that yet.

                      I of course did pick a couple benchmarks where the 5600G is likely to shine, especially x264/x265 encoding.

                    • The second link is for Max, no Mac Mini for that yet.

                      I of course did pick a couple benchmarks where the 5600G is likely to shine, especially x264/x265 encoding.

                      It's called a Mac Studio.

                    • Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] says you are wrong: "Darwin forms the Unix-based core set of components upon which macOS (previously OS X and Mac OS X), iOS, watchOS, tvOS, iPadOS and bridgeOS are based." The kernel for Darwin is XNU.
                    • The second link compares the laptop M1 Max chip which beat out the desktop 5600g. The point is the 5600g did not "comfortably" beat out the M1. Also I am unable find a price for your computer as that model does not appear available. I cannot say that it is "better priced" when there is no price listed.

                    • Works for me : https://azerty.nl/product/leno... [azerty.nl]

                      I would match the Max against a 3950X workstation, which used to be available for around the same price as a Max studio ... but availability and prices have gone a bit wacky for PCs of late.

                      https://tweakers.net/pricewatc... [tweakers.net]

                    • Works for me : https://azerty.nl/product/leno [azerty.nl]... [azerty.nl]

                      So I can only get the IdeaCentre5 5600g in the Netherlands and it will not "comfortably" beat the M1 Mac Mini much less the M1 Max

                      I would match the Max against a 3950X workstation, which used to be available for around the same price as a Max studio ... but availability and prices have gone a bit wacky for PCs of late.

                      And the listing price for this theoretical 39650 workstation?

                    • It won't just comfortably beat the M1 Mac Mini in handbreak, it will blow it away. GCC cross compiling for embedded targets or x86 it will comfortably beat it and avoid you a ton of headaches trying to use a native GCC on M1. Which is all I said in the beginning.

                      The price last year for the 3950x workstation I linked was 2000 Euro, little cheaper as the Max Studio here.

                    • It won't just comfortably beat the M1 Mac Mini in handbreak, it will blow it away.

                      Handbrake which was still in beta this time last year?

                      GCC cross compiling for embedded targets or x86 it will comfortably beat it and avoid you a ton of headaches trying to use a native GCC on M1. Which is all I said in the beginning.

                      I am not sure that many people use M1 for GCC cross compiling. It seems you are trying to use whatever test you want to shoe-horn the term comfortably.

                    • The Handbrake developers got a pre-release mini and Apple directly contributed patches (which Apple did not themselves contribute upstream). It is about as far along as can be expected without being first party software.

                      The first question I asked was "Better performance at what exactly?". I was just picking a couple important niches to show it's hardly a blowout. On normal benchmarks they match close enough. Now what will actually happen for people making their money on producing H.264/H.265 content and com

                    • The Handbrake developers got a pre-release mini and Apple directly contributed patches (which Apple did not themselves contribute upstream). It is about as far along as can be expected without being first party software.

                      And how does take away from the fact that Handbrake is very new to the M1 chip and has not had the decades of optimization that x86 has had.

                      The first question I asked was "Better performance at what exactly?". I was just picking a couple important niches to show it's hardly a blowout.

                      Some what call that "cherry-picking".

                      On normal benchmarks they match close enough. Now what will actually happen for people making their money on producing H.264/H.265 content and compiling large code bases for non Mac targets, will just have a Threadripper box on top of a Mac laptop/desktop. Cause time is money and power is cheap, so just buy both.

                      For most people buying a Mac they will not be cross-compiling gcc. That was my point.

        • It depends on what kind of performance you need. If it's multi-core performance then there's plenty of choice of CPUs [cpu-monkey.com]. Many of those feature above the M1 Ultra in single core performance [cpu-monkey.com] too.

          Despite Apple's claims about its GPU performance the top end SKU gets smacked down [extremetech.com] by the 3090. Which is a similar story to when Apple announced the M1 Max and claimed it could perform on par with the 3080 Ti mobile. I have a Razer Blade 15 and pre-ordered the Macbook Pro M1 Max only to find Apple made some very disinge

          • My point was that he needs to qualify his statement of "Not when there systems out there that are not as limited, have better performance, while being better priced."
            • Oh yeah, totally agree. I mean that statement is both true and false depending on the circumstances, that's why I'm keeping my M1 Max but it's not replacing my Razer Blade.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by spth ( 5126797 )

      Linux For M1 Macs

      Why bother making that? I mean, besides the ubiquitous "because we can". I honestly can't imagine a usage case with enough users to justify the porting effort. Anyone who wants to run Linux knows that you can buy three of literally any other piece of hardware with better performance specs for the same price.

      No. If you want high memory bandwidth at lower power, and can live with non-upgradeable RAM, the M1 is currently the best option.

      The M1 Ultra gives you 800 GB/s, the M1 Max 400 GB/s.

      On AM4 you get 50 GB/s. Sure you can spend the money an M1 costs to buy an EPYC or Threadripper, but those will need far more power.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dfghjk ( 711126 )

        "No. If you want high memory bandwidth at lower power, and can live with non-upgradeable RAM, the M1 is currently the best option."

        Except that this is an entirely contrived "want", no one wants "high memory bandwidth at lower power", it is totally meaningless except to system designers themselves.

        "On AM4 you get 50 GB/s. Sure you can spend the money an M1 costs to buy an EPYC or Threadripper, but those will need far more power."

        Which you will have to do absolutely nothing to provide.

        Embarrassing post, Spth,

    • Linux For M1 Macs

      Why bother making that? I mean, besides the ubiquitous "because we can". I honestly can't imagine a usage case with enough users to justify the porting effort. Anyone who wants to run Linux knows that you can buy three of literally any other piece of hardware with better performance specs for the same price. So you are limited to, what, the segment of Mac users who were given one by a well-meaning relative who thought "more munnies must means better" and who then wants to use the computer for something useful.

      Anyone who wants to use a computer for something other than a backroom server sure as hell isn't using Linux.

      Unless they are a Linux fanboi.

  • OtherOS? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon Macs without a jailbreak! This isn't a hack or an omission, but an actual feature that Apple built into these devices.

    For how long? Sony had an OtherOS [wikipedia.org] feature on their PS3, until they removed it with a firmware update. Anyone who considers the availability of this "feature" as a commitment from Apple is hopelessly naïve.

    That means that, unlike iOS devices, Apple does not intend to lock down what OS you can use on Macs (though they probably won't help with the development).

    This is merely wishful thinking, and a good indication that you shouldn't invest your time or money. Without hardware docs, Linux will always be a second class OS on Apple hardware, and subject to removal at a whim.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Apple have never locked their macos machines to prevent installation of third party operating systems. Even on the old 68k and powerpc macs it was possible to install linux or bsd. There's no reason to believe they would start now.

  • And OpenBSD, too: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-a... [marc.info] Looks like the support will be in the OpenBSD 7.1 release expected this spring.

  • Its the usual problem with Apple. You usually cannot duplicate the spec for much less than they charge. In this case you can't get the combination of performance and low power.

    But the question is whether the limited configurations they offer include the one you need. Usually if you start from what you need, you'll find that you can get it for 60% of what Apple charges for a machine which is not what you need.

    Just for curiosity I went to quietpc.co.uk and configured a few possible systems. Very quiet, ve

  • Been a Mac user for over 25 years and it does what I need, probably can do more than what I need. I'm not a power user like most Mac users. So WHY do I even NEED Linux ? I DON"T want to have to fiddle with an OS to get things working. Most Mac users and probably Windows users, common day people, will never think about installing Linux. I think you need a specific reason to want it and most of us don't !

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dusanyu ( 675778 )
      How long will apple support the First Generation M1 hardware? there is a point that after wich Linux will be the only option if you like your laptop but want to keep the OS on it up to date.
      • Apple releases open source Darwin in addition to MacOS. To me it seems that Darwin contains the framework of MacOS but does not include everything. Work still needs to be done to make Darwin an alternative to MacOS by a community.

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