Debian Developer Demoted, Quits After Two Decades With Project (itwire.com) 218
juul_advocate shares a report from iTWire: A developer who had more than two decades of service in the Debian GNU/Linux project was stripped of his status in December leading to him deciding to leave the project. Norbert Preining told iTWire in response to a query he decided that having been graded down to Debian maintainer was not something he wanted after all these years. He has now joined the Arch Linux project.
Preining said what basically happened was that the [Debian account manager (DAM) team] thought he was bullying members of the project. "I guess they are referring to my run-in with Martina Ferrari where she called me out in very strange and unfounded ways, which started a long lasting disagreement between her and me, and the blog post about Lars [Wirzenius, a project member] which was nothing more than a selection of quotes from Lars' own blogs," he added.
"Anyway, these were all old things, but DAM still prefers to paint me in the light of 'You have been bullying members of the project for years' (quote from Enrico Zini on the debian-private mailing list) and that I cannot communicate with the Community Team, which back then included Martina, and which has again hit me in the back by allowing other members in Debian (I refrain from naming them here, but will do in my blog post) to bully me, even in unrelated forums and on IRC. The bottom line is that Martina, Lars, and those others are close friends of DAM and CT [community team] and the 'leading circle' in Debian, and thus it seems that they are exempted from adhering to the same community standards." Preining said the situation that led to his demotion was "more or less" about political correctness, adding that he'll explain more about the events in a blog post later on.
Preining said what basically happened was that the [Debian account manager (DAM) team] thought he was bullying members of the project. "I guess they are referring to my run-in with Martina Ferrari where she called me out in very strange and unfounded ways, which started a long lasting disagreement between her and me, and the blog post about Lars [Wirzenius, a project member] which was nothing more than a selection of quotes from Lars' own blogs," he added.
"Anyway, these were all old things, but DAM still prefers to paint me in the light of 'You have been bullying members of the project for years' (quote from Enrico Zini on the debian-private mailing list) and that I cannot communicate with the Community Team, which back then included Martina, and which has again hit me in the back by allowing other members in Debian (I refrain from naming them here, but will do in my blog post) to bully me, even in unrelated forums and on IRC. The bottom line is that Martina, Lars, and those others are close friends of DAM and CT [community team] and the 'leading circle' in Debian, and thus it seems that they are exempted from adhering to the same community standards." Preining said the situation that led to his demotion was "more or less" about political correctness, adding that he'll explain more about the events in a blog post later on.
tl;dr (Score:2, Troll)
Douchebag quits and says you can't fire me.
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Douchebag quits and says you can't fire me.
So much this. From looking at the story, I'm only surprised they put up with him for that long.
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So much this. From looking at the story, I'm only surprised they put up with him for that long.
Which facts lead you to this conclusion?
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I would also like to know. The links provided don't give much more detail than the summary.
We live in a world where workplace bullying is a real problem, and causes real harm, and as such demotion/termination are justified responses to it. We ALSO live in a world in which people make false accusations of bullying for political reasons (or for reasons of personality conflict or differences of opinion).
I have no way of knowing which is more likely in this case. Did people accuse him of bullying just becaus
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Re: tl;dr (Score:2)
Is bullying a problem, though? Anecdotally, it seems like a lot of things are going to shit since we stopped bullying children...
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Down with this sort of thing!
What makes you think the developer in question was a douchebag?
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Second paragraph in the summary.
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Second paragraph in the summary.
What about it?
Re: tl;dr (Score:2)
Yep. the fun from Debian has been lost because making sexist jokes, or treating other people like shit is not allowed any more Details to follow. Sounds like he's a douche.
Re: tl;dr (Score:2)
Penis pareidolia. Look it up.
Re: tl;dr (Score:2)
I too thought perhaps it looked like a tampon, with the "W" as strings. Problem is easy to solve though. Make sure you have women involved in designing every logo. Then throw her under the bus when it comes driving towards you.
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Can you list the rights he’s standing up for? Which country do they apply to?
So I guess I still get to use his work (Score:3)
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Does Arch maintain a global repository for every piece of software they support in their distribution? How militant is Arch about supporting FOSS?
Re: So I guess I still get to use his work (Score:2)
I don't think anyone's as militant as Debian. They forked Firefox because it wasn't open enough.
jocks and nerds (Score:2)
Just as you thought things change when you leave high school, it's the same thing all over again in your adult life.
"High School Never End."
Developer Maintainer (Score:2)
Thoughts (Score:2)
I have a couple of thoughts.
1) Hooray!! This story SHOULD be on slashdot.
2) We need to do more to distinguish between people's actions and intents. MLK's 'content of their heart' if you will. Some people are assholes. Sometimes those assholes don't really realize their assholes. Some people are over nice. Some of them don't understand that they're overly nice. Both of these people need to respect each other for the good work they do, despite their faults. We shouldn't judge people for their entire li
Re: Thoughts (Score:2)
Sometimes those assholes don't really realize their assholes. That's because eyes face to the front while assholes face to the rear. Oh wait you meant "they're".
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Sometimes you NEED that guy in the back with an attitude and cheeto fingers. We may not talk about that guy in very flowery tones, but we need that guy.
No, you never need that guy. There's always someone out there who is a better programmer, and not an asshole. Dump the assholes, dump the prima donnas, find the people who are both good and have enough humility and respect for others to get along. Some of them are extreme introverts and don't have great people skills, but that's fine, as long as they have a good attitude, and some humility. And if you look (and pay them) you can even find extremely talented engineers who are also great with people, and exce
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The question is whether this is theoretical or intended to mean this guy in particular.
At least in the linked materials, he doesn't seem to be particularly an asshole. To give that impression, one person basically just put words in his mouth. He expresses that it's tiresome to have big drag-out threads where people without a horse in the race insert themselves into a conversation to joke about abstract concept of scaring people away from committing, which no human would take seriously. Basically it struck
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The question is whether this is theoretical or intended to mean this guy in particular.
The former. I didn't look into things enough to form any opinion about this guy in particular.
I feel like I hear about these unworkable assholes, but I haven't really run into one in my work at all in the open source world, and in commercial software I have seen *close* but generally still workable.
I have seen them in the commercial world.
Re: Thoughts (Score:2)
I managed to throw an entire development team out of the company I worked for at the time. They were doing java when the company policy was "Microsoft only" and just ignored the policy. That was fine until I needed them to build something with a Microsoft low code app and they refused.
In the end the primadonnas left, the rest got training, and they switched to visual studio. I still count that as a victory.
Re: Thoughts (Score:2)
I too would refuse to work in a MS ecosystem. I did that for years at the start of my career and I found it to be woefully painful for the stupidest reasons.
It's not being a prima donna to understand where your interest lies and to reject working on shit that makes you unhappy. That's just the benefit of having a career. You don't have to do anything you don't want to.
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No, you never need that guy. There's always someone out there who is a better programmer, and not an asshole. Dump the assholes, dump the prima donnas, find the people who are both good and have enough humility and respect for others to get along.
You are absolutely correct. Nobody has any duty whatsoever to tolerate anyone with an attitude not of their liking. Dump all the losers and find someone better.
Obviously it's not about an "attitude not of [my] liking". It's totally possible to work with people with whom you have personality conflicts, and the ability to do so effectively is called "professionalism". But there are assholes and prima donnas out there who think they shouldn't have to be professionals, because they're just so good they're indispensible.
They're not.
No jerks. Get rid of them. You can do better, and everyone will be happier and more productive without them.
Must be nice to get to pick and choose. Some of us actually have to work with dead weight and coexist with people we don't like.
It's management's responsibility to get rid of the dead weight and the net negatives. If your management isn't willing to do that, find
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"Anybody making public blog posts about internal drama should probably just be let go outright."
I agree with the sentiment above but you'd be surprised how often people are let go over internal drama that stayed 100% internal. Lots of fragile people with fragile, delicate feelings. But the moment internal discussions are aired publicly for outsiders to see, well that's when the line is crossed. It is important to both choose one's words and one's battles in life. Fight the battles worth fighting and eva
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Yes and no. Yes, we should personally judge people by their character and give them some kind of break rather than judging them by the worst thing they've done. But part of judging people by their character is seeing how they respond to criticism. If someone is told they're being an asshole and their response is to double down and insist they should be allowed to continue behaving as they please, that's a sign of poor character.
The act of judging others is sometimes where things go sideways. Everyone has a dual responsibility to be nice and to be tolerant of those who are not so nice.
It seems to be the case that some people have forgotten about the second part of the equation. The first without the second is no different than the second without the first. Both are equally important for effective collaboration and a functioning free society.
Sure, we shouldn't expect someone to fix all their problems immediately. People don't change overnight. But they at least need to acknowledge there's a problem and take concrete steps to change. If they simply insist the problem is with the rest of the world, and anyone who complains is being overly sensitive, that's a sign they don't understand the problem.
I sometimes get the false impression there is some kind of dispassionate godlike infallib
This is how it should work. (Score:3)
They don't like him, he doesn't like them - so he moved on. Doesn't matter who's "right" or "wrong", the marketplace will decide such things. I guess we'll see over time as certain projects become more or less successful based on how they deal with these situations.
Is it better to alienate and push away the very rare super-nerd talent that puts in tons of free hours doing very specialized work because they enjoy it, or is it better to alienate the PMs, community outreach, organizational glue types who are a dime a dozen. I guess we'll find out but I have my own theories....
That said - in the end I think the douchebaggery from either end of that particular spectrum is far more limited than many people imagine from reading these types of articles. For the most part, the vast majority of people in these organizations act professionally, neither being sexist/racist nor assuming everyone else is racist/sexist. So it's probably in the noise.
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I assure in the world of highly talented software development, there are not just asshole developers, and the snowflake people who manage them.
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Re: This is how it should work. (Score:2)
These issues should require video chat mediation. It's well researched that people interpret social media written communication way worse than person-to-person. Maybe this is priming from the FB feed, but maybe people just think everyone on the Internet is an asshole rather than a bad comedian.
Future of Debian (Score:3)
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Everyone is free to have his own opinion (sorry, his/her), and I am free to form my own opinion on Sarah Sharp by just simply reading the facts. I am more than happy that one more SJW has left Linux development, as the proliferation of cleaning of speech from any personality has taken too far a grip.
Coming to my home-base in Debian, unfortunately there is no one in the position and the state of mind of Linus, so we are suffering the same stupidities imposed by social justice worriers and some brainless feminists (no, don’t get me wrong, these are two independent attributes. I do NOT state that feminism is brainless) that Linus and the maintainer crew was able to fend of – this time
He was cheering that a "SJW was pushed out" and is upset that someone pushes him out based on his politics. How ironic.
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Yes, he was an asshole who let his own political beliefs get in the way of his job, and he got demoted. I'd do the same. There's a point where no matter how gifted someone is, their presence and their behavior is so disruptive that you're better off without him. And if he magically thinks he can be a derisive jerk on other projects, he's going to have a hard time.
Why the fuck would anyone be talking about SJWs and slamming other members of a project like this? That shows an utter lack of professionalism.
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I do believe Sage did at various points make it about that issue and argued that, though Linus did not make a distinction in whom he was an abrasive towards, it supposedly affected certain groups more.
Frankess be, whatever gender differences may or may not exist in how people react to blunt language, cultural differences are far stronger, and it it's typically more so a discussion of Europeans vs. North Americans, than males vs. females, in desiring blunter or more polite communication. — Of course,
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From what I remember about the Sarah Sharp incident: She left kernel development because Linus can be an asshole. But Linus is an equal opportunity asshole and nothing from her complaints were about politics or identity.
Sharp first kicked off about a joke Linus made about not crossing one of the other developers because he was so big that he might squish you and not even notice.
Sharp went to 11 on this as an indication that "threats of physical violence" were being advocated as a way to get code accepted. It was 100% nuts and she was allowed to rant about it for far too long before being shown the door. No project needs that sort of disruptive behaviour.
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Yes, he was an asshole who let his own political beliefs get in the way of his job
Bingo.
Why the fuck would anyone be talking about SJWs and slamming other members of a project like this?
You answered that in your very first sentence :)
People who have let this politics bleed into their work life have nearly invariably hit the point where they can't even parse the world in any terms but their politics.
To him, every ill he encounters is rooted in the enemies of his football team.
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On 4chan, they call it “living rent free in one's head”; I' surprised that term hasn't leaked out of 4chan much yet.
It essentially describes a state of mind where people constantly think about one particular antagonist they are obsessed with and take every opportunity to complain about that opposing force and interpret everything as though it be related to that. As in, one is letting one's enemy live rent-free in one's head.
It's really quite common that members of certain groups seem to constant
Re: Future of Debian (Score:2)
It was from their precursor 1chan on the Arpanet.
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Words you have never heard Linus use:
SJW.
Feminist.
This is just another pissed off shitstain screaming to the world about being made to account for the fact that the world is waking up to the idea that you don't need to coddle pieces of shit, and if you do, they'll change the culture around themselves to suit themselves.
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What Sarah did is literally akin to barging in on a couple of colleagues having a chat around the coffee machine and calling them bigots for making light-hearted inside jokes while talking about something work related
Please cite where she called them bigots.
It's really tiring to work together with people who have trouble differentiating social banter from serious remarks, so I very much get why Norbert was happy to see Sarah quit
So you're happy that someone quits . What does that say about you and Norbert?
So I wouldn't necessarily say it's SJW territory, but more due to a lack of certain social skills on Sarah's part.
No part of Sarah's complaints had anything really to do about politics. You and Norbert seem to make it about politics.
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Additionally, where did I say this was politics?
So you admit nothing she said has anything to do with politics yet you condone Norbert calling her a SJW and that you understand why he is happy that she quit. Do you understand how it seems like you are trying by any means to just his actio
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It seems like the woke push out the people who actually do real and meaningful work in exchange for virtue signaling
Could you explain this "virtue signaling" of yours?
Seems like a history of bad behavior here (Score:2)
Dead end ahead (Score:2)
Sexist Jokes? (Score:2)
Getting back on topic (Score:2)
Re: Getting back on topic (Score:2)
Systemd = SJW, SysVInit = developer
a single point that i found (Score:2)
is that he confused gender with sex in a (forum?) post
as i understand, sex is determined physically, by chromosomes and whatnot and can be determined objectively in a medical sense. Gender, however, is a social construct with little to no meaning overall. I'm a guy, but I could arbitrarily decide to identify as a she. Nothing of value would change in my life. How the hell would a pronoun change, change the way people interact with me, when they can *clearly* see and hear I'm a guy?
I still maintain to this d
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That may be so, but many people have insecurities (including many people working in the CS field - such as us). When we go on our daily lives as human beings, we try to be nice to other people and to cope with their various issues and quirks in a way that will not hurt their feelings. This is what we do as social animals, we try to find ways to mitigate conflicts with people that we are supposed to interact with on a regular basis. Of course sometimes we are clumsy and we do things that end up hurting them
Re: a single point that i found (Score:2)
We don't generally take being polite to the level of getting wrapped up in personal power fantasies. If my coworker asks to be called "his Highness" and I don't play along, no one feels I've done anything wrong, despite the fact that his Highness identifies as a cannabis king.
I read (Score:2)
I read a lot of the linked content. His original blog post wasn't terrible. It was mostly a posting of what other people had said on the kernel mailing list. He exposed himself with bad writing. If you're writing about a touchy subject then proof read and make sure your position is really clear.
The post by Martina Ferrari is odd. It's hard to understand exactly what she is attacking. You'd think she didn't really read the blog post but just skimmed out the meaning - which is exactly why you need to be reall
Toxic people are everywhere (Score:2)
Only when you realize that they're at different points of the same spectrum do you learn to ignore both of them.
Re: Toxic people are everywhere (Score:2)
I'm starting to think the word "toxic" itself is a big part of the problem. It's a dismissive designation that doesn't require any precision. It doesn't explain why some behavior is wrong or how to address it or how to resolve conflict. It's like the modern use of "Nazi" on Internet forums. It's not adding anything useful.
Sometimes two things can be true at the same time. (Score:3)
I understand that Linus can be a bit abrasive at times. Honestly, he probably should learn how to communicate that the code doesn't meet standards or is broken without belittling the developer.
But it is also true that hypersensitive people can destroy an entire team. It may be unprofessional to belittle others for their mistakes, but it is likewise very unprofessional to butt in on other people's conversations, to make accusations based on your misunderstandings, etc... Quitting a project because someone wrote something which hurt your feelings, especially if they weren't talking to you, or meant something else is the mark of someone who doesn't have the emotional control and self-discipline to do professional level work. If the only thing you create at work is drama, you're better off in Hollywood than working as a kernel maintainer.
There will always be people in society who are socially inept, or who have difficulty reading other peoples' emotions. As an adult and professional, you should be able to work with them, to understand their difficulties, and to focus on writing great code rather than getting caught up in how you feel.
Yes, jerks can be bothersome at times, and may make a few people unhappy. But SJWs are the tactical nuclear weapons of open source develoment - they're not satisfied until nobody is happy. They have the unique ability to drive away current and prospective talent, and to prevent any meaningful work from being done by the few who remain.
Re:A Lament (Score:4, Insightful)
And if this becomes like a lot of other older communities those with the hurt feelings will go on a campaign to have that person stripped of future mod points if not outright banned.
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The links this guy posted in his own defence are pretty damning. He's been calling people SJWs and generally disrupting things.
Arch are not going to benefit from his move there.
And if his statements were accurate? (Score:2)
The links this guy posted in his own defence are pretty damning. He's been calling people SJWs and generally disrupting things.
Damning? What if his statements were accurate, is the inconvenient or unpleasant truth no longer allowed?
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What if his statements were accurate, is the inconvenient or unpleasant truth no longer allowed?
Among the cancel culture crowd, whatever comment they object to, regardless of accuracy or intent, is no longer allowed.
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Damning? What if his statements were accurate
It would still be irrelevant. Invoking the label of SJW as part of your argument instantly makes you precisely the kind of toxic idiot the world could do without. Whether he's right or not is immaterial. Stupid people who don't know how to argue on merit are toxic to any work culture.
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The links this guy posted in his own defence are pretty damning. He's been calling people SJWs and generally disrupting things.
Did you miss the quotes in his blog post with the SJW in action causing disruption for no reason?
https://www.preining.info/blog... [preining.info]
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I mean, the thread was a funny exchange of jokes until SJW called everyone on violence and threats. I didn't saw any serious threats of violence, only jokes. Afterwards it became a useless discussion of what's allowed and what's not.
There was no name calling, no one asking to beat down somebody, nothing like that. Overreaction and disruption not necessary.
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The blog post you link to is about Linus telling another developer to be toxic, something which Linus himself apologised for and committed to doing better at in future. Turns out she was right, and Linus accepted she was right.
The blog is basically an appeal to authority, except that here the authority (Linus) has accepted that he was wrong.
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Social Justice Warriors is a term such people come need to describe themselves. It's not his fault that people don't like such people, that because an SJW is someone who will get in the way of getting anything done, nobody wants them around.
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He's complaining about people who made meaningful contributions and who helped foster a much more welcoming community at Debian. Linus Torvalds even took on-board what they said to reform the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML), and to improve his own communications.
Apparently, nobody wants him around.
Re:* coined to describe themselves (Score:4, Interesting)
That's disingenuous though. He used the term SJW in order to dismiss the comments out of hand. Whatever it's origin, it is being used as a pejorative. Martina didn't refer to herself as a SJW, he did.
Imagine being so fragile that when someone expresses the opinion that some comments are unnecessarily toxic you can't just agree to disagree, you complain that they have ruined your fun and you go off and sulk.
Eject the disruptive from either side (Score:2)
That's disingenuous though. He used the term SJW in order to dismiss the comments out of hand. Whatever it's origin, it is being used as a pejorative ...
Because of how this self identified groups conducts itself. They turned their label into a pejorative through their own extremism and zealotry. Their own portrayal of the micro as the end of the world.
... Martina didn't refer to herself as a SJW, he did. Imagine being so fragile that when someone expresses the opinion that some comments are unnecessarily toxic you can't just agree to disagree, you complain that they have ruined your fun and you go off and sulk.
Imagine someone being so toxic that if you refuse to accept their worldview they will disrupt the group in retaliation until the group acts in according to this worldview.
There are two types of disruptive personalities here. Organizations are best served by ejecting both.
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> Imagine someone being so toxic that if you refuse to accept their worldview they will disrupt the group in retaliation until the group acts in according to this worldview.
Do you know how many people and organizations you just described? It's hardly unique to the so-called 'SJW' - which I don't believe this person described herself as, it's a label people are giving her. Preining specifically. This entire article is very one-sided.
It's all too easy to dismiss people we disagree with by giving them label
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> Imagine someone being so toxic that if you refuse to accept their worldview they will disrupt the group in retaliation until the group acts in according to this worldview.
Do you know how many people and organizations you just described? It's hardly unique to the so-called 'SJW'.
Sure, but certain worldviews will accurately classify a person as SJW, or as you say a MAGA-ite.
which I don't believe this person described herself as
Actions can also accurately classify a person.
it's a label people are giving her. Preining specifically. This entire article is very one-sided.
But was it accurate? It seems so.
Linus: "Have you guys *seen* Greg? The guy is a freakish giant. He *should* scare you. He might squish you without ever even noticing. Linus"
Ingo: "So Greg, if you want it all to change, create some _real_ threat: be frank with contributors and sometimes swear a bit. That will cut your mailqueue in half, promise!"
SS: "Seriousl
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It's only "both ways" if the "alt-right" and "white supremacist" groups came up with those terms to describe themselves, then that backfired and became a pejorative that they're now trying to disown.
I'm pretty sure that both the alt-right and the white supremacists did, in fact, come up with those terms to describe themselves.
Re: Proofreading is a good trick, yes (Score:2)
Black people created "woke". Then the term got hijacked by White, liberal elites. And I don't think most Black people are too keen to use the "woke" terminology anymore.
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It's worse. She was complaining about Linus hurting other people's feelings even as those same other people were telling her their feelings weren't hurt.
I can't speak for them, but I do know that I find people claiming to know more about my feelings than I do to be offensive.
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It's not a recent change, it's just affecting more people as time goes on. I used to get mod points regularly until it mysteriously stopped about a decade ago. I still have excellent karma, I get moderated up more than down when my comments are moderated at all. I don't know what causes it.
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Presumably after years of Trump excusers and Russia / China apologists getting modded up someone at Slashdot finally cracked the shits and hit the red button for the good of humanity.
There were some dumb fucking morons with modpoints the past 2 years.
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We should be lucky anyone still gets mod points as there is a small chance moderation could cause someone's feelings to get hurt if they get modded down.
Don't worry, many states are on a spree banning things that make people feel bad about themselves and will ban negative /. mods soon... :-)
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Love that you think you're immune and that your actions make you bulletproof. Good luck, kiddo.
Re: Band for ... reasons other than... (Score:3)
Re: Band for ... reasons other than... (Score:2)
At the end of the day it's politics. Not performance run the show and determine who gets fired or promoted. Your job is no exception and consider yourself lucky.
My last employer regularly had meetings about me without me being invited by a guy who wanted my job. He won and with lunches with the CIO was going to be my boss and he demanded I answer his calls and report to him when he wasn't my supervisor. Let's say I started my new position 2 weeks ago as a result and quit. This douche was not going to be my
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This is awesome. When I first read your post, I was confused to how you could miss the entire part where this was two people using the emotionally and politically charged atmosphere at a work environment to screw over another employee for one of their benefit.
I don't know if you were intentional or just trying to counter the point, but not only did you explain how it would be viewed and therefore take down this employee but why we can justify our disdain for him or her in the process even though it would
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Both scenarios can and do happen. Sometimes assholes act like assholes and then play innocent. Sometimes people really are innocent but HR has a guilty until proven innocent policy. Actual innocence can be very hard to prove. That's why our criminal courts don't work that way.
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Yep - I had this happen at a previous job. It's real difficult to prove you did not do something. And even if you manage to (I managed), their friends can make the same accusation and then it's a "pattern."
The first time, I was out sick for the even that they said I said an inappropriate comment. No one believed them because I had a 10 year reputation of not making those kind of comments. The second time, they did better with the dates and it added credibility to the first one.
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Or the women could be right. Men, in my 30 years in IT, have historically belittled and put down the accomplishments of women in tech. Women, in many orgs, have only been able to get a head by "being one of the guys".
Re: SJWs fuck up everything (Score:2)
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Funny, I thought it was toxic arseholes that fucked everything up.
Yes, but toxic assholes are on both sides (Score:2)
Funny, I thought it was toxic arseholes that fucked everything up.
Yes, but toxic assholes are on both sides. The problem is that many bros and sjws don't realize they are assholes.
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Funny, I thought it was toxic arseholes that fucked everything up.
That's a perfect description of SJW. Declaring that all should follow uniform view of the world where it does not matter if you are bad at what you do.
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Oh my god, I can't imagine how terrible society would be if we all started caring about other people's feelings.
Re:How do you destroy society? (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh my god, I can't imagine how terrible society would be if we all started caring about other people's feelings.
A society built on caring about other people's feelings will be drastically different from a society that is built on rational decision making. Notably, such society would be a lot more violent, as anger is one of the more prevalent feelings and rational rules and laws constrain people acting out in anger.
Re: How do you destroy society? (Score:2)
This reminds me of the ridiculousness of "feminists" claiming men need to be in touch with their feelings, then dismissing any feelings the man might have like anger.
Re: (Score:2)
Too late. If you have to ask what offends someone, you've already offended them by not knowing. Shame. Shame. Shame.
You have it, I have it, isn't it our business? (Score:2)
You seem awfully hurt over other peoples' business.
If I have Debian and you have Debian, doesn't that make it our business?
Re: (Score:2)
> If I have Debian and you have Debian,
I think there are pills and treatments for that nowadays.