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Bungie Rejects Steam Deck's Linux, Threatens To Ban Destiny 2 Players There (theverge.com) 61

Posted by BeauHD from the empty-explanations dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: When will Bungie let Destiny 2 come to Valve's Steam Deck handheld gaming PC? It's looking like the answer is never -- because the soon-to-be Sony subsidiary has published a help page that not only says the game's unsupported, but outright threatens to ban prospective Steam Deck players (via Wario64). The help page has a new section titled "Steam Deck and Destiny 2," which reads: "Destiny 2 is not supported for play on the Steam Deck or on any system utilizing Steam Play's Proton unless Windows is installed and running. Players who attempt to launch Destiny 2 on the Steam Deck through SteamOS or Proton will be unable to enter the game and will be returned to their game library after a short time. Players who attempt to bypass Destiny 2 incompatibility will be met with a game ban."

To be fair, Bungie isn't the only one to reject the Steam Deck without necessarily providing a satisfying explanation -- Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney explained to me why Fortnite won't get updated for the Steam Deck last month, even though Epic's own Easy Anti-Cheat (EAC) claims game developers can enable it with "just a few clicks." And while both Apex Legends and Elden Ring now fully work on Deck despite using anti-cheat, it's also true that many other top multiplayer games have yet to fully arrive.
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Bungie Rejects Steam Deck's Linux, Threatens To Ban Destiny 2 Players There More

Bungie Rejects Steam Deck's Linux, Threatens To Ban Destiny 2 Players There

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  • Of course they're not going to support steam deck. It is kind of a dick move to ban people though. But if it's one thing I know about gamers if the game is okay they'll excuse pretty much any dick moves. But haven't helped Bungie if they ever screw up the game play enough to piss off their fan base.

    Honestly though I just didn't get destiny 2. It ran amazing on my hardware at the time and that was kind of a novelty but I just found a gameplay kind of repetitive. Not that I'm big on this kind of loot grin
    • They are not competitors, Destiny 2 is sold on Steam. They just refuse to support the Steam Deck.

      • Well there's a game I won't be buying on steam.

      • Bungie is owned by Microsoft, which wants you to run Destiny on a Windows OS, not Linux.

        • This is 100% false -- they are currently independent and in the process of being acquired by Sony. They were a part of Microsoft from 2000 until 2007, so your information is about 15 years out of date.

        • Even if that was true (which it's not) that ship have already sailed since they run Destiny 2 on Google Stadia as a native Linux build using Vulkan. Further Valve does not require them to provide a native port either, all that is required is to tell Epic that you want to enable EAC on the deck, the deck can already run the Windows version of the game just fine.
    • dick moves are the new black since that matters now
      otherwise it - - oh, i read its an actual pc, you dont have to break it and its a set hardware config ... im hoping to see some demoez .. (its still for rich kids who can pay €99 for an AAA game though)
    • I couldn't get into Destiny... installed it when I got it free... so boring. The enemies never felt like they had any weight or importance like they do in some games. It just felt like a shooting gallery against paper enemies. Run over here, kill things for a bit, run over there kill things for a bit. Uninstalled it in under 3 hours. Is it a good game? Probably. But it didn't hook me for even a second.

  • I guess they hate money. (Score:3)

    by preflex ( 1840068 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @07:29PM (#62320467)

    All they have to do is send an email to Battleeye, and they'd get more money. Instead, they do this.

    • They don't even have to do this, they already have a Linux native port using Vulkan that they run at Google Stadia...
      • Somehow, I suspect the ports running on Google Stadia servers probably don't implement anti-cheat. Call it a hunch.

        So no, this doesn't apply at all.
        • While certainly true, EAC does have a Linux version as well. And the EAC in their WIndows version only requires an email to Epic to enable it for the Steam Deck so it's not like this is impossible nor something that would require vast resources. I mean Apex Legends managed to do this just fine.
          • No, it's not impossible, obviously
            In fact, it's fucking nothing for Epic to do it.
            The real reason for this is "Fuck Gabe Newell".

            I was merely pointing out that a port for Stadia isn't really relevant. It doesn't run anti-cheat.
            Ultimately, their port for Android likely has everything they need for a straight linux port.

  • just a few clicks (Score:3)

    by ToasterMonkey ( 467067 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @07:48PM (#62320519) Homepage

    Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney explained to me why Fortnite won't get updated for the Steam Deck last month, even though Epic's own Easy Anti-Cheat (EAC) claims game developers can enable it with "just a few clicks."

    Sounds like a risk thing. I'm sure supporting another platform with anti-cheat software is easy, you only have to do nothing. It's got to be doing something on Linux, but the two platforms are so different. Maybe their anti-cheat on Linux doesn't have the same capabilities as on Windows and they have to weigh that against each game and what it's community expects.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tyr07 ( 8900565 )

      The linux community is super stronk when it comes to modify scripting and having complete control over how linux behaves. Probably scares the crap out of them as there are people in that community that know linux inside and out and make it dance to their tune. If people like that write things to get past cheating it would be a big challenge for them to combat them.

      Windows is locked down which can make them use reasonable reliable windows components to interface with and not get cheated out of their anti-che

    • [Expecting the next sentence to relay Tim Sweeney's explanation ... nope]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Sounds like a risk thing. I'm sure supporting another platform with anti-cheat software is easy, you only have to do nothing. It's got to be doing something on Linux, but the two platforms are so different. Maybe their anti-cheat on Linux doesn't have the same capabilities as on Windows and they have to weigh that against each game and what it's community expects.

      The problem is Linux is too powerful. Ask any kernel developer and you can make it such that Linux lies to applications. So if you have an anti-ch

      • And you can write Windows kernel drivers that do the very same thing. In fact there are tons of cheats being sold for Destiny 2 running on Windows right now. There are zero cheaters that would need Bungie to release Destiny 2 on the Steam Deck in order to be able to cheat.

      • The problem is Linux is too powerful. Ask any kernel developer and you can make it such that Linux lies to applications.

        No. Linux is no more powerful than Windows in this instance.
        Windows can be made to lie to applications just as easily as Linux can.
        Currently, DRM/Anti-Cheat providers throw their tendrils very deep into the OS. This can be done on Linux as well, it's just much harder because Linux is a moving target, thus there's no development done for it.
        Ultimately, DRM/Anti-Cheat isn't worried about the kernel lying to it. It must assume that it will, so it's in the difficult position of operating in a 100% untrusted

    • I'm sure supporting another platform with anti-cheat software is easy, you only have to do nothing.

      Cheats should be viewed like security... because they're literally the same thing. They're people exploiting vulnerabilities in the code to make the application do something it's not "supposed" to do.

      The exact same thing is true of security. If you're releasing a small app with a few hundred thousand users, you'll probably not be the target of malware. If you're Windows though, then you have nation states, criminal gangs, etc all clamoring to find vulnerabilities.

      A game like Fortnite or Halo or Destiny

      • I honestly disagree with the analogy between hacking Windows and cheating at an online game. The former is an attack surface that could grant backdoor control of thousands or millions of computers. The latter is a feature that would let a player skew a session of a group game. No computers would be compromised.

        If they could segregate the Linux players to play only with other Linux players, then the problem would be solved. There's no issue of backdoor control.
    • I'm sick of games thinking they should run in the kernel. They should not, and I hate that this behavior is being normalized.

      • And I hate cheating in online games. Like it or not there's too many shit cunts out there ruining it for everyone. Destiny 2 is a great example of a game that forced the hand of the developers. It *didn't come with anti-cheat*. The player base demanded it after cheaters completely destroyed the experience on release.

        I play single player games. No anti-cheat required. But play online it's basically a necessity these days.

        Note this isn't an excuse, the Steam Deck should be easy to support, but I get that it'l

        • But play online it's basically a necessity these days.

          The most effective anti-cheat is social. In a match with friends, you can ensure all friends have no cheats (or the same cheats) installed. Is online play specifically with strangers also "a necessity"?

          • it is if you're interested in a competative experience.

          • The most effective anti-cheat is social. In a match with friends

            This isn't the early 00s anymore. one of the biggest selling features of games is how massive they are when played. I was at a LAN party 2 weeks ago, sure a few games we played against each other, but more often than not we jumped online and together played team based games against random people.

            And that's before you consider the fact that not everyone schedules their gameplay in their calendars with their friends and sometimes you want to just sit down and hit the play button. I think a fingerless man can

    • It's not that, it's that EGS is a direct competitor to Steam, and Tim Sweeney wants Steam to fail. The list of EGS exclusive games is short and underwhelming. Fortnite is just about the only feather in EGS's cap, it makes no sense to give it up.

  • Gamers [generally] don't give a fuck who owns what developers. They just want to be able to play on their [preferred] devices. Some value portability. Some want to use their console with a big TV. Others want the comfort of keyboard + mouse. Bullshit politics like this -- banning players -- (due to greed) is what makes the games industry suck.

    It reminds me when companies ban gamers playing under Linux. It isn't a "problem" but an opportunity for a new platform to bring in more players. Looks like Bun

    • I guarantee the real reason this is happening is they've at some point in the past illegally taken money from Microsoft to support their anti-competitive monopoly logistics. And at this rate it won't be long now before it's no longer secret.

    • That, and I just don't get the stick up the ass that some of these studios have about the "purity" or whatever of the experience that want their customers to have. I didn't get it when back when Nintendo was suing the manufacturer of the game genie, and I don't get it now. In fact, many of the best gaming experiences I've had in the last several years (ZOMG Stellaris... it's going to give SMAC a good run for the money in sheer hours played.) have been very heavily modded in ways in which I'm sure would gi

  • Please don't lump these two together. The reality is that games like Destiny 2 always were going to be a problem for the Steam Deck as was any game which didn't run under Linux natively and used some form of anti-cheat. These historically don't play well with Proton. It may be "unsatisfactory" as an answer but it none the less makes perfect sense.

    But don't compare this to Epic's bullshit hypocrisy. Destiny 2 is a game that is based on Windows, Xbox and Playstation. It has the most limited of cross compatibi

    • Tim Sweeney's excuse about Linux kernel support on the other hand falls flat and can be exposed for the hypocrisy it is given his game runs natively on a Linux kernel (Android) already

      Nonsense. Sweeney never said it was impossible to support Linux. Sweeney said that it wasn't worth the cost to support Linux.

      If you have 1,000 Steamdeck users you gain 1,000 * $50 = $50,000. If you have to put a developer onto maintaining Proton's anti-cheat capability and that costs $100,000/year you're losing money. If that $50,000 in revenue also opens up a MASSIVE attack profile for cheaters, then potentially a $1,000,0000,0000 in revenue is at risk of gamers leaving your platform due to cheating.

      • Nonsense. Sweeney never said it was impossible to support Linux. Sweeney said that it wasn't worth the cost to support Linux.

        No. Sweeney is already using Linux, again the game already runs on Linux based systems. His claims of cost were directed at varying Linux kernels and yet Fortnight runs on any number of them already.

        Plus you missed the point I was making. The point is Fortnite is specifically billed as a game that is as widely multi-platform as possible.

        If you have 1,000 Steamdeck

        LOL Dude you're not really paying attention to the fervor surrounding the Steam Deck are you.

    • Destiny 2 always were going to be a problem for the Steam Deck as was any game which didn't run under Linux natively

      But it does run on LInux natively. It's been ported to Stadia. They could just drop-in the linux version of battleeye and ship it out to users. The only thing stopping Bungie from doing this is Bungie itself.

    • They have a Linux native version of Destiny 2 that they run on Stadia. It even uses Vulkan.

  • game ban so will steam give out full refunds?

  • Much as Tim Sweeny has got a lot bad press for this he's got the right of it.

    Enabling linux support and anti cheat is fine if you're willing to accept that cheating can still happen, but is low consequence.

    But there's nothing stopping you from writing your own linux kernel patch and installing that on a steam deck. If you can't trust the kernel, you can't trust anything that depends on the kernel. For something like fortnite there's a huge financial incentive to cheat, Destiny isn't as bad, but it's still

    • Tim got it wrong since Fortnite already runs on Linux kernels on millions of devices all which present the same risk.

      Please don't confuse what Tim says and what he does. Fortnite doesn't run on the Steam Deck because he has a hateboner for Valve.

  • The Steam Deck would've delivered a much better gaming experience out of the box, had Valve shipped it running Windows. All of the initial reviews of this thing so far have indicated there's all kinds of bugs and glitches galore, which isn't surprising considering Windows games can sometimes be glitchy even when you're running them under Windows.

    If you've bought (or more likely, still waiting for your preorder) a Steam Deck, you're probably well aware of the caveats. A lot of games aren't compatible, you'

    • The Steam Deck would've delivered a much better gaming experience out of the box, had Valve shipped it running Windows.

      No.

      First, remember that the whole raison d'être of Steam OS is to help Valve not being dependent on the Microsoft ecosystem.
      There's no chance in hell they would have even considered Windows as an OS.

      And it would not have been feasible in practice.
      Remember that Linux is extremely customisable, you see it running from extremely large HPCs (my day job consist running research code on one) all the way down to embed - there are such things as full blown GNU/linux running on a phone (my current daily driver [sailfishos.org]

    • Look at this from another angle: If the Steam Deck is enough of a success gamedev companies will have a financial incentive to make sure their games run well on it. This in turn benefits all Linux gamers making Windows less of a necessity for gaming. If say, in 5 years time most new games are compatible with Linux/Proton I could completely remove Windows from my home PC (or at least very seldom boot it)
  • Perhaps a useful compromise position would be to allow co-op PvE gameplay on the less-trustworthy platform, accepting that cheating there has minuscule consequences to the enjoyment of others, while preventing Linux users from joining PvP modes where cheating leads to whales rage-quitting.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by xalqor ( 6762950 )
      If the match making is effective, do they even need to check the platform? Players who cheat will, at a glance, just look like better players so they'll be matched with them instead of newbies. A second level could be checking for known cheats, or simply unlikely situations, and if there's a pattern of these over time then flag the player and match them only against other cheaters. That way everyone can enjoy the game the way they want to.

  • Security belongs in the server, not in the client.

    A server can not, ever, under any circumstances, trust the client. It is the server's responsibility to both authenticate the client AND prevent the client from doing bad things, rather than rely on the client pinky-promising that they won't be naughty.

    The Samba team highlighted that in the 1990s when they exposed the fact that Microsoft's SMB services relied on the client saying "Yes, you can trust me, I am authenticated user XYZ with these permissions".

    Mi

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