Lenovo Begins Selling 30 Linux ThinkPads and ThinkStation PCs (zdnet.com) 74
"More top-tier computer OEMs are now offering a broad assortment of Linux desktops," reports ZDNet.
"In the latest move, Lenovo, currently the top PC vendor in the world according to Gartner, will roll Ubuntu Linux 20.04 LTS out across 30 of Lenovo's ThinkPads and ThinkStations..." While Lenovo started certifying most of its laptop and PC line on the top Linux distributions since June 2020, this is a much bigger step. Now, instead of simply acknowledging its equipment will be guaranteed to run Linux, Lenovo's selling Ubuntu Linux-powered hardware to ordinary Joe and Jane users.
Previously, you could only buy most of these machines if you were a business and had specified you wanted Ubuntu on a customized bid. Now, nearly 30 Ubuntu-loaded devices will now be available for purchase via Lenovo.com. These include 13 ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series Workstations and an additional 14 ThinkPad T, X, X1, and L series laptops, all with the 20.04 LTS version of Ubuntu...
No one's predicting a "Year of the Linux desktop." Companies such as Dell and Lenovo aren't predicting such a game-changing event, but they're selling largely to enterprise companies, which have seen the virtues of using high-end Linux desktops for powerful, forward-looking technologies such as AI, ML, containers, and cloud-native computing.
"Our announcement of device certification in June was a step in the right direction to enable customers to more easily install Linux on their own," explains Lenovo's vice president of PCSD software and cloud — but now they're going even further.
"Our goal is to remove the complexity and provide the Linux community with the premium experience that our customers know us for. This is why we have taken this next step to offer Linux-ready devices right out of the box."
"In the latest move, Lenovo, currently the top PC vendor in the world according to Gartner, will roll Ubuntu Linux 20.04 LTS out across 30 of Lenovo's ThinkPads and ThinkStations..." While Lenovo started certifying most of its laptop and PC line on the top Linux distributions since June 2020, this is a much bigger step. Now, instead of simply acknowledging its equipment will be guaranteed to run Linux, Lenovo's selling Ubuntu Linux-powered hardware to ordinary Joe and Jane users.
Previously, you could only buy most of these machines if you were a business and had specified you wanted Ubuntu on a customized bid. Now, nearly 30 Ubuntu-loaded devices will now be available for purchase via Lenovo.com. These include 13 ThinkStation and ThinkPad P Series Workstations and an additional 14 ThinkPad T, X, X1, and L series laptops, all with the 20.04 LTS version of Ubuntu...
No one's predicting a "Year of the Linux desktop." Companies such as Dell and Lenovo aren't predicting such a game-changing event, but they're selling largely to enterprise companies, which have seen the virtues of using high-end Linux desktops for powerful, forward-looking technologies such as AI, ML, containers, and cloud-native computing.
"Our announcement of device certification in June was a step in the right direction to enable customers to more easily install Linux on their own," explains Lenovo's vice president of PCSD software and cloud — but now they're going even further.
"Our goal is to remove the complexity and provide the Linux community with the premium experience that our customers know us for. This is why we have taken this next step to offer Linux-ready devices right out of the box."
Cheaper? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they any cheaper? If not, you might as well get the windows license for resale down the line.
Let's blame Trump for this... (Score:3, Insightful)
Lenovo is likely doing this because they can see the writing on the wall: in the future they may not have access to Microsoft products to load onto their laptops, just like Huawei found they no longer have access to Android for their cell phones. Better to start diversifying their systems now rather than getting caught with their pants down later.
Just 30 units? (Score:2)
That's a pretty small run.
Re:Cheaper? (Score:5, Interesting)
>"Are they any cheaper?"
I don't know, but probably not.
>"If not, you might as well get the windows license for resale down the line."
It depends. I, for example, have no desire to have any MS-Windows software on any of my computers, ever. And I keep machines for a very long time, so resale isn't much of a factor. So even if it is not cheaper, I would have no use for a license tied to my machine and would rather that money not go to MS and also my machine not counted in the millions of machines that don't run MS software but are counted as such. Some of the money might also go toward a LInux distro company. In this case, even though I have no interest in Ubuntu I would much rather see them get some money or credit than MS, regardless of what distro I install (which would likely be Mageia, Fedora, Mint, or Centos).
Re:Cheaper? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Exactly, even if they ship it with Ubuntu, one would have more confidence that it could run Slackware for example. As for Windows, I have that definitely running in a qemu/kvm VM with hardware pass-through if needed for games etc.
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Are they any cheaper? If not, you might as well get the windows license for resale down the line.
Why would they be? Microsoft probably demands higher royalties to run Linux than they change for a Windows license.
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Bloatware subsidizes the cost of the Windows license, with no Windows license, no bloatware - if the bloatware pays more than the cost of the Windows license, the Windows version could cost less (be more profitable) than the same system with "free" linux.
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Support is nice (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Support is nice (Score:5, Informative)
No, they're upstreaming it all and even supporting firmware upgrades through LVFS.
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Or it will be like they did before, support a single Ubuntu LTS version and then abandon the updates, no tarballs, just a very old deb that you may be able to unpack and manually insert into the kernel for some time.
This is what's happened with every "Linux laptop" so far: Linux pre-installed by the manufacturer means some distro has been forked-and-forgotten by the manufacturer. Linux drivers provided by the manufacturer means binary blob drivers provided by the manufacturer.
If you care about Linux, you do not want a "Linux laptop." You want whatever premium Windows laptop the most Linux developers are using.
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Re:Cheaper? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cheaper? (Score:4, Interesting)
No.
The issue is that Manufacturers want to pay as little as possible for Windows licenses, so what they do is they agree that every computer of a given model will ship with Windows, and in return MS offers them the lowest license cost and contributes to the advertising of the computer model as shipping with Windows. (That's why the Windows logo appears on websites and in advertising.)
Manufacturers occasionally offer systems without OS licenses, but it is more trouble than it is worth - typically - since most end-users want/need Windows, and most corporate buyers that enroll in Software Assurance or similar programs need the computers to have a base Windows OS license, since software assurance offers UPGRADE not bare-metal install licenses for the current Windows version.
MS offers free Windows licenses for systems that are low-spec (screen size, ram installed, etc.), that was a way to eliminate those pesky Netbooks.
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For a long time it did not. That's why all netbooks were essentially the same, and their specs never seemed to change. Eventually the computing world moved on and Microsoft succeeded in killing the market. Though maybe Microsoft didn't anticipate the Chromebook thing - if they had they may not have been so quick to kill off the netbooks, many of which did run Windows.
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That is the rub. One reason OEMs have had trouble with Linux on PCs is because MS, a genuine monopoly, fined and sued companies if they had a machine that could run MS products but did not have a license.
Once upon a time, Walmart tried to make the Linux PC mass market. A revolving door of no-name products and distributions. None of which caught fire. None of which were sold as system bundles with compatible printers, monitors and so on. No recognizable pre-installed software to drive sales and no after-market software product on the shelves either. Leaving potential buyers completely in the dark. Mind you, this was about 20 -25 years out from the launch of the IBM PC.
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Probably more expensive! (like the super lightweight Porsches that cost more than ones with air-con and radios.)
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Are they any cheaper? If not, you might as well get the windows license for resale down the line.
Yes, they are slightly cheaper.
Re:Cheaper? (Score:4, Funny)
Why would you pay less for a better OS? That's not how it works.
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People's definitions of "better" varies, both by person, and by use case.
I'd prefer to never use anything other than Linux or possibly a *BSD for any server.
But, while certainly usable, Linux desktops, to date, do not offer the consistent and polished experience that Microsoft and Apple are generally able to provide.
I use Linux on the desktop anyway, but I would not expect most of the mass market to do the same.
Re:Cheaper? (Score:4, Interesting)
One can hope that they come with slightly less broken firmware.
I have an X1 Gen8, Windows version running Fedora, and the power management throttles the CPU+GPU every 30 seconds. If you try to watch video on it, it reaches 800MHz after a few minutes, and eventually hits 400MHz. Needless to say this does not help playback smoothness. The "solution" is to install throttled, which detects said throttling and fixes it, every 30 seconds...
Other almost required tools are thinkfan to get reasonable fan performance, and tuned (with settings from powertop) to save about 10W when idle. This brings battery life up to barely acceptable.
I am very interested in whether all this is required on the Linux version with pre-installed Fedora, or whether they simply preinstall the unbreak-tools.
Re:Cheaper? (Score:4, Informative)
You can't easily resell the Windows licence. These days they don't come with a licence sticker, there is simply a code burned into the BIOS somewhere.
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Even if the Windows and Linux machines are nominally the same model, they may use (e.g.) different wireless cards from time to time, only one of which has first-class** Linux support. If you buy the Windows model and the wifi is flaky or non-functional in Linux you have no recourse; presumably they will ensure the ones with Linux pre-installed get the right wifi card and/or the correct version of any other 'variable' hardware.
** I.e. full-functioning driver in the mainline kernel
Re:Cheaper? The maintenance will be (Score:2)
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I kind of doubt it. It's pretty rare to see Thinkpads and Thinkstations at retail anyway, except for places that sell used/refurbished equipment. The other computers that Lenovo sells are common, but generally the Thinkpads/Thinkstations are sold mail order, or sold in bulk to businesses.
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At $8,699 each, does it matter? (The cheapest one listed in TFA was over $2,400, the most expensive one almost $20,000)
Only 30? (Score:5, Funny)
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When all 30 are gone, Znet hires a new editor?
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Better act fast if you want one.
I just checked their website, and there were only two ThinkPads and five ThinkStations left.
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Silicon Valley approach: Let's cross that bridge if we get there - why worry about something which may or may not become a problem.
Way cool - if it really works (Score:5, Interesting)
I've owned three Thinkpads, run Linux on all. Twice it meant wiping the original OS (DOS, Win, OS/2, whatever) but the last one came with Linux preinstalled. Great! Except it was a modified distro with kernel hacks and workarounds that created their own issues, and the vendor never provided updates to fix them. I ended up wiping and installing yet another distro. The fact that Linux was pre-installed was, in the end, of little, if any, benefit at all.
So the real question is not whether Linux is pre-installed today, but rather whether the vendor will continue to support (ii.e. provide updates) for the machine for, say, 4 or 5 years from now.
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Good point. This is one reason why I like my Raspberry Pi 4 so much. They keep upstreaming code to mainline and everything just keeps improving software-wise.
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Excellent point indeed, you may as well wipe it with several random data writing passes anyway and install the OS you wish. mke2fs -c -c is good for that and test the drive for consistency as well. I understand this is not for the average customer who just wants something that works out of the box although.
Re:Way cool - if it really works (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the benefit is indirect: if it encourages manufacturers to get Linux drivers built, all distributions can benefit.
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I think the benefit is indirect: if it encourages manufacturers to get Linux drivers built, all distributions can benefit.
If, and only if, those drivers make it back into the mainstream kernel (which would be perfect). It seems not to be the case as some users report specific kernels which lack upgrades after a while. So it's actually worse than not supporting Linux and forcing you to install it from scratch.
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Do you need this? I don't ever recal upgrading the drivers that came with Dell for a Windows laptop. If the driver starts out working, then why change it if the hardware hasn't changed?
Re:Way cool - if it really works (Score:4, Interesting)
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I've owned three Thinkpads, run Linux on all. Twice it meant wiping the original OS (DOS, Win, OS/2, whatever) but the last one came with Linux preinstalled. Great! Except it was a modified distro with kernel hacks and workarounds that created their own issues, and the vendor never provided updates to fix them. I ended up wiping and installing yet another distro. The fact that Linux was pre-installed was, in the end, of little, if any, benefit at all.
So the real question is not whether Linux is pre-installed today, but rather whether the vendor will continue to support (ii.e. provide updates) for the machine for, say, 4 or 5 years from now.
Forget Linux, I want to hear about the laptop with OS/2 installed on it!
I think I might still have that OS/2 Warp box somewhere...
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During these nine years I've never seen a driver go stale.
The only part I've needed to change out a couple of times was the battery and a couple of years ago I swapped the HD for an SSD and put a large HD with a caddy in place of the removable optical drive.
In hindsight I'm so glad I went for a top-line laptop because it's still running great.
Great, hope the price will reflect no MS license. (Score:2)
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Yeap, never add any problems installing Linux on thinkpads but the last time I did this was when IBM still owned the brand. Thanks for the update.
The first install I did on a thinkpad was in 1999, on a corpo owned laptop. I would run the Windows required for work OS in a VM and switch it full screen when corpo tech support came to my desk to install stuff etc. They never realized that Windows was running as a host under a Linux hypervisor. That was VMware work station for Linux without any virtualization op
If only... (Score:1)
If only someone else with money would make a nice counter bribe to Adobe, so they would release their software on Linux.
But given that it looks like the bribe moneis are coming from Apple, itâ(TM)s going to be really expensive to do so.
No "year of Linux on the desktop" joke? (Score:1)
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And no Will it run Linux jokes neither
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Thirty models or total count (Score:2)
Do they come with consumer level support? (Score:2)
A lot of the laptops sold to enterprise on which Linux gets installed are supported by the enterprise which bought them. Consumer support has been Windows. Will Lenovo support Ubuntu 20 for "Joe and Jane", their parents, and grandparents?
I hope they find 30 buyers (Score:1)
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You nearly lost me when you said Ubuntu (Score:2)
but I read on knowing that if I bought one of these, the first thing I'd do would be to wipe Ubuntu and install Debian or CentOS. I have tried many times to get to like Ubuntu but every time they seem to take a leaf out of Redmonds book on how to screw up an OS and do something totally stupid just because they could.
Re-inventing a wheel that wasn't broken seems to have been tried many times and mostly, they have failed.
I applaud their effort to make using Linux easier for converts from the swamp that Window
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Ubuntu server does something I really don't understand. During the install if your hardware clock isn't set to UTC time it will bomb out with a cryptic error message. It asks if you want to view the logs so you say sure. Of course the log is about a megabyte of verbose text that repeats every error except the one that causes the install to fail.
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That's the sort of thing I had in mind but that's a new one on me though.
Never Seen That (Score:1)
if your hardware clock isn't set to UTC time it will bomb out with a cryptic error message.
How is that possible? How does it know what time zone the hardware clock is set to?
The Hardware clock is a time and date with no other reference. If Ubuntu is bombing out on some UEFI bastardization of the hardware clock, then that's another issue. One that I've never seen on VMs, Dell, SuperMicro, HP...
But, Ubuntu can't have an issue with the hardware clock. SO, what sort of janked up rig are you running?
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At least installing another DE like cinnamon would be a quite good start.
The one that comes with ubuntu makes it look like some awful oversized tablet instead of a personal computer.
Anyone Seeking Out Linux Would Self-Install (Score:2)
And drop the price since there is no Windows tax.
Lenovo Linux updates better than Android devices? (Score:2)
How well will Lenovo execute on its commitment to Linux devices?
If you look at their Android Upgrade Matrix [lenovo.com] there are only three tablets still advertised as receiving Android updates - despite a fair chunk of the list of phones and tablets still being available for new sales in various locations.
Finally! (Score:2)
The year of Linux on the Desktop has come.
Alternative Headline... (Score:1)
Ten Years Later, Lenovo Reattempts What Dell already Failed and Gave Up On.
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Except Dell hasn't 'failed and given up'. Their XPS developer range, available with Ubuntu preinstalled for a number of years has had a refresh just today, and they are now saying Ubuntu will be available as a option on the entire XPS range, not just the developer versions.
https://arstechnica.com/gadget... [arstechnica.com]
Fingerprint Scanner? (Score:3)
I have a 6th gen X1 Carbon running Linux Mint. I have had good luck with just about everything except for the fingerprint scanner. It'd be nice if Lenovo would finally release a functional fingerprint driver/library/whatever for Linux.
Pricing (Score:3)
I always find it odd that PC manufacturers offering Linux pre-installed only seem to do it on the more expensive end of their offerings. Am I the only Linux fan in the world that likes to have an affordable option?
My last two Linux laptops were cheapos. One of them a Chromebook from the cheapo clearance rack. I just like having a cheap laptop with a decent keyboard to take notes with, do some writing, and maybe a little web development from time to time. I see no reason at all for spending upwards of $1500 for huge processing power when the most taxing thing I'm going to do is run a text editor on it.
Of these thirty offerings, will any of them come in under a grand?
2020 Year of Linux on the desktop? (Score:2)
Linux desktops or linux/docker developer machines? (Score:2)
Is there a point to linux developer machines now that there is Windows 10 WSL2? No one likes the Windows patch cycles but they get tier 1 support from most application vendors and they are the main PC gaming O/S. The Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 has removed any need I had for Linux desktops or VMs.
Mint/Cinnamon Would Have Made Sense (Score:2)