'Linusgate': Debian Project Leaders Want To Ban Linus Torvalds For His Manners (linuxreviews.org) 236
Artem S. Tashkinov writes: 253 emails have been leaked from private (high-level) mailing lists of Debian, in which its representatives vocally complain about the talk Linus Torvalds gave at the most recent DebConf conference. Some people insist that he should be permanently banned from future conferences because the language he uses is inappropriate and infringes on the project's Code of Conduct. This could set a very bad precedent for the open source community, which has recently seen an influx of various CoC policies applied to a number of high-profile projects mostly after very vocal concerns from the people who barely participate in the open source community. Some observers believe that it's a plot by Microsoft to destroy the open source movement from the inside.
UPDATE: "Note: The complaints and the event itself happened in 2014," the article points out.
UPDATE: "Note: The complaints and the event itself happened in 2014," the article points out.
To the Debian outcriers (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't want to hear the naked truth, you're the one who have to fuc* off.
Re:To the Debian outcriers (Score:4, Insightful)
If you don't want to hear the naked truth, you're the one who have to fuc* off.
Irony: stating a group should be able to hear the naked truth, then needlessly masking one letter of the word 'fuck'.
Re: (Score:2)
History of the F word [youtube.com].
Re:To the Debian outcriers (Score:5, Insightful)
How about Debian fucks off instead?
This is a set of mails from 6 years ago being dug up now (presumably shit stirring as everybody's mentioned below. Around 2018 Linus himself admitted he'd gone too far and he's even added a CoC to the projects which seems like a bit of a mea-culpa. It does make me think that the CoCs aren't really being put in with proper mature thought. Is the language people use the most important thing or should the CoCs also include things like making sure people report any security problems they become aware of?
Linus met a bigger bully (Score:3, Insightful)
Around 2018 Linus himself admitted he'd gone too far and he's even added a CoC to the projects which seems like a bit of a mea-culpa.
Its not a mea culpa. Its a political necessity for someone not ready to retire and who doesn't want to get "canceled". In short, Linus met a bigger bully.
Re:Linus met a bigger bully (Score:4, Insightful)
Its not a mea culpa. Its a political necessity for someone not ready to retire and who doesn't want to get "canceled". In short, Linus met a bigger bully.
I suppose that's possible but I'm not totally convinced. Linus has a daughter and I got the impression around the time that he had been persuaded rather than effectively threatened. Never can tell of course, I suppose that could be a face saving explanation. Got any evidence for your comment?
Re:Next release: Debian Selfrighteous Snowflakes (Score:4, Interesting)
Has anyone actually read the comments in the Linux source code? It's full of colorful language, that doesn't meet the CoC. Shall we ban that as well?
Re: Next release: Debian Selfrighteous Snowflakes (Score:3)
Ancient History (Score:5, Interesting)
This is something which happened 6 years ago.
Why is this presented as news now? Just someone stirring up trouble.
Re: (Score:2)
You are right the eMails date are 2014.
Sorry no points I cannot vote you up / might somebody with points so nice to do this instead of me?
Re:Ancient History (Score:5, Informative)
You are right the eMails date are 2014.
Yes, someone just posted this a few minutes ago over on LinuxReviews:
Somebody is just trying to stir up some shit.
Re:Ancient History (Score:4, Informative)
Not only did the world not burn down, Linus actually accepted that he needed to change.
Accepted? As if he had a choice. (Score:3)
Not only did the world not burn down, Linus actually accepted that he needed to change.
As if he had a choice
Re:Ancient History (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. The summary talks about 'the most recent Debconf', no mention of 2014, it is dishonestly framed as somehow current, using weasel words to avoid direct lies.
This entire thread is flamebait/clickbait without this context.
This is purely aimed at getting people frothing at the mouth about Codes of Conduct, and massive shit stirring.
Pathetic.
If it started with ''six years ago, Linus spoke at Debconf, now some emails have leaked...' it would have been honest but basically a minor footnote in history.
Re:Ancient History (Score:4, Insightful)
Things are not *quite* that simple - I do remember Linus himself saying he needed to be a bit less inflammatory in his comments - something which was reported here at the time - and it may well have been around this time. It was certainly several years ago and I suppose this argument could have been a contributory factor. /. overlords have become very sloppy in their acceptance of submissions. I suppose you could say this story is a Dupe from 2014, although I no longer remember whether those emails were cited then.
Whatever, the whole business is years ago and another indication that the
Re:Ancient History (Score:5, Interesting)
That's how those "witchhunts" happen.
They will dig shit you said as a literal kid on the internet and whine until you get fired.
Re: (Score:2)
I suppose a small but vocal group of people who barely participate trying to tell everyone else what to do are, unfortunately, constantly newsworthy in these times.
Re:Ancient History (Score:4, Insightful)
OK. OTOH, I'm still upset about the way they included systemd, and that happened awhile ago, too.
Re: (Score:2)
It's almost as if we are married to them. The way they keep bringing up old stuff.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The Social Justice nutters having scored a victory not so long ago... are now doing what everyone knew they would do... going for the kill.
Never let them into any projects and never let their wretched codes of conduct in either. The code will be used to remove you from your own project.
The result will be you ousted and your project in flames as it ends up staffed with intersectional nutcases whose only skill is slander.
Re: Ancient History (Score:2)
Which is exactly what has happened to torvalds in the 6 years that have passed since this thread. QED
Re: Ancient History (Score:5, Interesting)
It isn't at all obvious from the summary that the events are from years ago. Quite the opposite, TFS reads as if these are very current events.
'Linusgate': Debian Project Leaders Want To Ban Linus Torvalds For His Manners
253 emails have been leaked from private (high-level) mailing lists of Debian, in which its representatives vocally complain about the talk Linus Torvalds gave at the most recent DebConf conference. Some people insist that he should be permanently banned from future conferences because the language he uses is inappropriate and infringes on the project's Code of Conduct. This could set a very bad precedent for the open source community, which has recently seen an influx of various CoC policies applied to a number of high-profile projects mostly after very vocal concerns from the people who barely participate in the open source community. Some observers believe that it's a plot by Microsoft to destroy the open source movement from the inside.
To me it reads like recent news and a discussion of a topic that submittard perceives as a very real, future threat.
Re: Ancient History (Score:5, Insightful)
So who exactly is Dr. Roy Schestowitz and techrights.org, and why should anybody care either way? Is there a known axe being ground here?
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe it's time that people get a mandatory feedback loop installed instead of going rail to rail, if you pardon my French.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Linux's driver support makes the BSDs look like a sad joke.
As I want hardware to work, I will continue to use Linux.
Twitter was a mistake (Score:5, Insightful)
Old news (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Old news (Score:4, Interesting)
Look at the date: Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 12:29:32 +0100 The world and even Linus has changed in the past six years. Nothing to see here.
I think what has changed here is that the names of those that complained 6 years ago have now been released. What happens from that is anybodies guess. If I ran a large open source project, I would probably use lists like this as purge lists for my project. You can pretty much bet that whoever complained the most or the loudest probably contributes nothing to the project except emails. Also, helps me setup email filters to send to identify irrelevant emails to send to folders I never read. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Re:Old news (Score:5, Insightful)
I think what has changed here is that the names of those that complained 6 years ago have now been released.
The summary claims it's about a speech that Linus gave at the most recent DebConf conference though, which is clearly false. It mainly seems like someone trying to start a flamewar about CoCs. Too bad we can't mod stories as flamebait.
Re: (Score:3)
Have we all lost the ability to tag stories? I seem to have.
Maybe I "abused" it, from the viewpoint of Slashdot staff, by tagging stories accurately?
Re: (Score:2)
I'd love to hear that speech though.
I remember this happening at the time (2014... damn), but my impression was that it was just bitc... uh, whinging about e-mails or something.
Re: (Score:2)
Is cancelling them the right thing to do? I thought cancel culture was bad?
Because losing ones job vs the git commit privs on an open source project is the same thing? Whataboutism much?
Re: (Score:2)
How about getting booted off Twitter?
I need to know where the line is because apparently being banned from Twitter is a crime against humanity.
Re: (Score:2)
Wait! (Score:2)
I need to make some popcorn for this discussion!
Re: (Score:3)
(posts above explain this is quite old news)
Re: (Score:2)
You had six years, I hope that popcorn had preservatives.
(posts above explain this is quite old news)
I know, but the age of news is quite irrelevant to a decent Slashdot argument. Check it out, this story about something 6 years old is the second most heavily commented on the front page, 78 posts bitching and counting, and the story's only been here for an hour or so.
*eats some of that popcorn*
Barely Participate? (Score:2)
...vocal concerns from the people who barely participate in the open source community
Tell that to my Coffee Mug [zazzle.com].
Re: Barely Participate? (Score:2)
Reminds me of this comic
https://i.redd.it/yktd04f3igu0... [i.redd.it]
who could imagine (Score:5, Interesting)
That BeauHD would introduce one of the social justice headlines to slashdot again.
Whomever pointed this out a few years ago, I don't know if I should curse or reward you. It's very clear BeauHD has very particular sources of news and social justice may even be more important than technology to him.
Be warned before clicking such links or giving merit to this junk.
Re: (Score:3)
That BeauHD would introduce one of the social justice headlines to slashdot again.
What do you mean again? Slashdot headlines have been consistently clickbait rubbish for years now.
Re: (Score:2)
yes, but now they're social justice clickbait links.
Debian Politics (Score:5, Insightful)
Debian has been lately going very political! Now Debian weighs in on issues like gender equality, proper language... Did they forget they are software project and not an activist movement?
I don't care about what they consider as "an issues". It honestly repels me what are they focusing on. If they continue I will look for some other friendly, tolerant Linux community that focuses solely on software.
Re: Debian Politics (Score:2)
Fuck tolerance, thats the phrase that started that ball rolling. How about just being Switzerland?
Re: Debian Politics (Score:3)
Its a metaphor, and in this case, social justice has no business in advancing technology. Hell the very concept of people getting butt hurt over words like fuck, I find annoying. Im not religious, so I find the stupid parable of the forbidden fruit, well, pretty stupid. So throughout society we deliberately invent words we are never supposed to say? Why invent a word if we are to never use it? Thats why they are called words. Thats what they do.
When it comes to advancing scientific research or technology,
Re: (Score:3)
I don't think social justice is really about advancing technology, but social justice has a place in technology projects.
If you think about it, Software Freedom is about social justice. The ability to truly own your equipment is democratizing. Take the router software situation for example.
Re: (Score:3)
gender neutral bathrooms, identity politics, whether or not kevin hart should be boycot for life for making a gay joke in 2003, how eating meat is a worse crime than the 6 million jews killed during the haulocaust.. all it serves to do is kick people out that might have been the epoc level genius that propelled you 3 dacades in just a few weeks. People are so caught up in this shit they forgot how to actually work. They're too busy being triggered every time they turn around. Nobody knows how to grow thic
Re: Debian Politics (Score:2)
Btw we did not go into the European theatre over genocide. We went in to support allies who were being invaded. The morality of genocide did not arise until much later. Your confusing hindsight with foresight. Most people had no clue.
Re:Debian Politics (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't it ironic that SJW's proclaim their movement to be about tolerance when they're one of the most intolerant groups in history?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Being intolerant of intolerance doesn't make a movement less about tolerance. I hope you're not a developer, because your grasp of logic would result in nothing but compiler errors.
Re:Debian Politics (Score:5, Informative)
Just stop. If I create a movement named the "Good Guys Gang" does that mean anyone who disagrees with whatever outrageous goals of my group can automatically labeled the Bad Guys? Because that's exactly what we're seeing today. "Antifa" mastering fascist tactics and practicing them nightly. "BLM" demonstrating they could not care less about black lives by abusing black cops and black conservatives while ignoring black-on-black crime, etc. Opposing either group or their communist goals does not make one an actual fascist or white supremacist, yet that's what they've convinced a number of very dumb people to believe.
Re: (Score:2)
"criticising those people who are actively working to correct it "
Right. Terrorizing people and burning down businesses is just them actively working to correct atrocities. Do you work for the Trump campai gn? You're doing more to get him re-elected than he is.
Re: (Score:2)
" dear leader has made the implication that wearing a mask is a liberal conspiracy"
Again, riiiggghhhttt... That''s exactly what "dear leader" is suggesting. Do you idiots even listen to yourselves? You have so jumped the shark with the BS that you are actively working against yourselves, losing more and more people every day who would otherwise agree with your larger points.
Nice job, by the way.
Re:Debian Politics (Score:4, Insightful)
>"Being intolerant of intolerance doesn't make a movement less about tolerance."
Actually, yes is can, entirely depending on the definitions used for "tolerance" and "intolerance." Just like being called "racist" for not agreeing with certain so-called "anti-racism" premises and actions, which is all to common now. Many who call for "tolerance" have no tolerance at all for other viewpoints. They simply label someone else as "intolerant" and try to shut them down.
Re: (Score:2)
I know. It's especially clear they are intolerant when you pretend what they are campaigning against doesn't actually exist.
Ironically it seems the people most upset by social activism are bigger crybabies than they call out the SJWs for being.
Re: (Score:2)
"Ironically it seems the people most upset by social activism are bigger crybabies than they call out the SJWs for being."
Firstly, your "social activism" is an entirely made up concept that can mean a hundred different things to a hundred different people. That phrase is meaningless, devoid of any reality, designed to attract the dumbest narcissists from the dumb pool. Secondly, WAKE THE FUCK UP! Stop being their useful idiot. Otherwise you'll be their cannon fodder four months from now after Trump wins
Re: (Score:2)
Being intolerant of intolerance doesn't make a movement less about tolerance
People who make this point become the most intolerable fucks around. Creepingly everyone they don't like is labeled "intolerant," whether deserved or not.
Re: (Score:2)
Debian isn't just a software project, it's a community. That's why it's so successful.
Re: (Score:2)
Did they forget they are software project and not an activist movement?
They can be whatever they want to be. Did you forget the large portion of the open source projects fundamentally *are* activist movements at their core?
Re: (Score:2)
I don't care about what they consider as "an issues". It honestly repels me what are they focusing on.
So you don't care what they think, but you care so much that their thoughts "repel" you. I'm beginning to think you are more your own problem than the Debian developers. I mean you judge software based on if the developers have opinions or not. What's your next trick? A sentence starting with "I'm not sexist, but..."?
Dead issue now, but instructive (Score:5)
As others point out, this was 6 years ago, so the particular instance isn't all that important now. However, it does bring up a few more general and still applicable questions:
If you call to ban someone from a culture that values not mincing words and is known for a rich vocabulary of swear words (perhaps related to not mincing words) because they didn't mince words and perhaps swore, shouldn't you yourself be banned for failure to show sensitivity for other cultures?
This is a general problem with codes of conduct once they go much more specific than "Be excellent to each other". Unless they are unusually well crafted and flexible as well as deferring to unwritten exceptions whenever required, they inevitably end up breaking because a circumstance arises where enforcing one rule intrinsically violates another. Human relations, especially cross-cultural human relations are way too complex to codify into hard fast rules.
OTOH, if they do defer to unwritten exceptions, they tend to devolve into a sort of dictatorship where the arbiter of the unwritten exceptions becomes, shall we say, uneven in their willingness to apply those exceptions, usually based (informally) on how closely the offending opinion matches their own.
Re: Dead issue now, but instructive (Score:3)
You just get done reading animal farm? Thats pretty much the entire takeaway. Do as I say, not as I do.
Re: (Score:2)
No, read it 40 years ago. I'm just observing things play out in real life with a few specifics. Not surprising that a social commentary might comment on something that remains relevant.
crybabies (Score:3, Interesting)
So I've watched the video they're complaining about.
Out of a dozen or two questions, a couple wanted to bait Linus about political correctness and he handled himself with dignity.
Because he doesnt agree with GPL 3? FSF zealots, hey he got the biggest laughs - suck it up.
Or maybe Ian Jackson is one of those crazy people that hate being called crazy - ban him from debconf? Insane.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Good ol' R 714 hasn't been made since the 70s. Even if you had some I don't think I'd experiment with taking one today, 40 years later. Probably better/safer to smoke a doob or take an edible.
Heck, I know a guy who had one in a baggie on his "wall of trophies, rememberences and cool shit from the 60s and 70s", right next to a genuine dose of purple microdot LSD and the butter knives he used to smoke hash. We were eyeballing those in the mid 90s and weren't thinking taking them *then* was a good idea, nev
I'm running as fast as I can (Score:4, Funny)
Natural progression (Score:5, Insightful)
>"This could set a very bad precedent for the open source community, which has recently seen an influx of various CoC policies applied "
Where does anyone think this would go or end? Once you start down the road of SOC, SJW, censorship, and other such grand ideals, it naturally eats itself alive because it is never enough and never satisfied. So many speaking of tolerance yet with no tolerance for what they don't like or believe. So many speaking of diversity yet with no diversity of what really matters- thought. So many speaking of justice with no concept as to what justice really means.
"First they came for my..."
Wrong name (Score:3, Insightful)
Fee fees are so precious (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe DebConf should arrange safe zones where people who self-identify as victims can go to escape perceived microagressions from speakers. A janitor's closet or something.
I'm thinking they can use the door marked EXIT ONLY.
Concentrate on Code (Score:2)
Not Code of Conduct.
The video that made Debian reps triggered... (Score:2)
http://meetings-archive.debian... [debian.net]
Link to the talk? (Score:5, Interesting)
Any link to the talk so we can see what this is all about?
Oh, this is about something that happened 6 years ago and not "the most recent DebConf"?
What even is the point of linking to debconf if you don't link to specific talk?
Get your act together.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, this is about something that happened 6 years ago and not "the most recent DebConf"?
I actually think TFA is talking about the recent DebConf and trying to stir up shit by relating it to 6 year old emails. But I mean seriously why should this be a surprise to anyone. Linus despite his genius has an incredibly abrasive personality to anyone or anything that doesn't suit him.
I mean it's not necessarily good marketing or politically correct to in the middle of a developer conference (not Debian in this case) to simply say fuck NVIDIA and give the finger to the camera.
There's a reason in many c
Re: (Score:3)
I mean it's not necessarily good marketing or politically correct to in the middle of a developer conference (not Debian in this case) to simply say fuck NVIDIA and give the finger to the camera.
There's a reason in many cases companies hide behind PR departments and don't let engineers speak to the public. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] :-)
Right, because people definitely prefer being lied to. He's honest. You can't deal with it because you have thin skin and think you are entitled to force the world to be wrapped in bubble wrap for you. People *hate* PR departments spin. Hate it. Oh, and Musk is an engineer, says hot takes, makes tons of money. Perhaps the PR department and lying to people isn't as necessary as you seem to think it is. Perhaps that's why you get so mad at Linus, he points out all the places folks like you are lying.
Re: (Score:2)
In another Universe (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sign of the Times (Score:2)
A 2014 story resurrected with inflamatory language? How 2020 -- fits in great with the cancel culture narrative. Anyone who believes news reports uncritically whether on the NYTimes or here on /. deserves to be duped. Humans are the apex predator, so some of us prey upon others. Societies are cnstructed to optimize predation. Fake news (fraud) is just one way.
hard to imagine (Score:3)
Re: hard to imagine (Score:2)
How can you say that when you haven't read the actual discussion?
It's all about Bill and 5G... right ? (Score:2)
Of course... and it's Bill Gates that's pushing this, because he wants to ask Linus to include 5G support in Linux so it can create a new corona virus. How about everybody stop making up conspiracy theories ?
I need an OS that works (Score:3)
I get to the whole feelgood bullshit about who says what to whom in my spare time.
Care to point me to an OS that cares about getting shit done instead of making people feel good? Debian obvious is a goner.
Debian really does move slowly (Score:4, Informative)
Even their controversies take six years to be released to the public....
transcript of the inflamatory opinions (Score:5, Informative)
Few people want to watch a 72 minute video so here is a transcription of the part
relevant to the story.
http://saimei.ftp.acc.umu.se/p... [acc.umu.se]
The first 47 minutes are Linus talking about wanting kernel changes to not cause userspace software to
stop working, a complaint that linux distributions break things and the difficulties involved.
The part that seems to me to have triggered the CoC complaint starts at 47:20, the
accusations start at 50minutes.
Part of the background to this is that a company called Tivo made a digital video recorder,
the box ran linux but would only run software digitally signed by the company.
People could get the source code for the software running on the box but could not
modify their tivo box, no fixing bugs or adding features.
The FSF wanted people to use a new software license, GPL3, to stop tivoisation
Linus said he hates GPL3. He understands the reasoning but thinks it should have been
a new separate license. He said that GPL2 means
"I give you source code, you give me your changes back, we are even".
He said GPL3 instead means "I give you source code and you can't use it on your device
unless you follow my rules" and does not want to impose that condition.
He said he considered GPL3 to be an attempt to sneak in new rules and did not like that.
"The FSF did some really sneaky stuff, downright immoral in my opinion."
Questioner in audience: "You are talking about Tivoisation?"
Linus: "Yeah, tivoisation was always my main dislike of version 3 and the FSF
was being very dishonest, saying hey we actually allow you to invalidate the tivoisation clause,
and and, they tried to, they literally lied to people and said hey so that means that
you can use GPL3 without the tivoisation part, right, how many people heard that particular
statement from the FSF? [requests show of hands] Ok, maybe they only tried to convinced me
with that one, but they did. and it was like, I'm not stupid, yes GPL3 allows you to say
ok tivoisation is not an issue for us but it allow someone else to take the project and say
Hey, GPL3 without tivoisation is compatible with the full GPL3 so I will now make
my own fork of this and I will start doing drivers that use the full version of GPL3
and where am I am I stuck then, I'm stuck saying Hey, I gave you the source code
and now I can't take back your changes. That is completely against the whole point of
the license in the first place.
The FSF was, I mean, the kind of stuff that was going on behind the scenes made me once
and for all decide to not have anything to do with the FSF again.
So if you want to give money to people who do good give it to the EFF, the FSF is
full of crazy bigoted people, that's just my opinion. Actually [Gesture: hands up don't shoot]
I overstated that, a bit. The FSF has a lot of nice people in it but some of there
are a bit too extreme.
Questioner in audience: "I wish the EFF cared a bit more about software freedom,uh so
do you think that tivoisation benefits me as a user somehow?
Linus: No, no I don't but that was never why I selected GPL2, this is my whole point,
it's not that I think tivoisation is something that you should strive for, it's something
that in my worldview, it's your decision, if you make hardware that locks down the softwaer
that is your decision as a hardware maker, that has no impact on my decision as a
software maker to give you the software, do you see where I am coming from?
I don't like locked down hardware but at the same time that was never the social
contract I intended with linux, to me, I mean, people may or may not realise that
GPL2 was not even the first license for linux, to me the important part was always
I give you software you can do whatever you want with it, if you make improvements
you have to give them back, that was the f
Link to the "problematic" talk (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So in your brilliant system of discourse, one cannot never complain about whiners because that is "ironic" ?
Re: Oh, look more victims (Score:3, Insightful)
No, that's fucking stupid. This is basically how the whole thing played out:
Random retard: "I believe that 2+2=5"
Linus: "no, you fucking retard, 2+2=4, and there are mountains of evidence to demonstrate as much"
Random retard: "Linus was mean to me and everyone should boycott him until he learns to be nice"
Greytree: "ffs, stop being a whiny cunt. We don't care about your feelings, we care about what's true"
Blank-canvas: "hurr durr it's ironic that you're whining about him whining"
You: "yeah, all thos
Re: (Score:2)
True. I don't want to be on, under, or even near an intersectional designed bridge.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm rather fond of the ones that consider gravity, load and wind, actually.
Re: (Score:2)
Either one is forbidden to complain about whining because something something irony.
Or one is not.
It's the latter, stupid.
Irony is an artistic concept, not even a legal let alone a technical concept. Nobody is forbidden anything because irony. They just look silly and get laughed at. The thing is eventually you just have to admit your argument is DEAD, deceased [youtube.com]. It is no more.
Re: (Score:2)
Ironic that someone claiming whiners should take it like a man, is whining.
Did you just assume his whining?
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Ironic that someone claiming whiners should take it like a man, is whining.
Reminds me of the phrase, "All those men whining about women sound an awful lot like whining women."
Re: (Score:2)
Okay, I'll play:
Ironic that someone is whining about someone complaining about whiners whining.
Re: (Score:3)
Microsoft has pulled some truly devious schemes in the past. Lets not forget that.
Re: (Score:2)
Because sometimes your head is stuck so far up your ass you are not sure what year it is?
Where have you been hiding?
https://theintercept.com/2018/... [theintercept.com]
https://www.expressvpn.com/blo... [expressvpn.com]
https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]
https://www.aclu.org/blog/nati... [aclu.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying [eff.org]
I think the current American "respect for privacy" would make any SS officer come in his Lederhosen.
Re: (Score:2)
And the fine summary states that the messages were from a private mailing list. Doesn't that mean anything to anyone?
It means the messages were private until they were leaked. Now they're not private any more.
If a conversation is private then it's not news.
It's not private any more.
We respect privacy in the US
No, we don't. Seriously, our society does not value or respect privacy. People are always nosy AF.
in order to come to a prudent solution, you must ask imprudent questions, and that can only happen if you have a guarantee of privacy.
Or if you just aren't a pusillanimous wimp. Grow up and learn to ask pertinent questions even if they make people uncomfortable.
The messages were private, therefore the story is someone violated someone else's privacy.
That part of the story is that some people thought some messages they posted unencrypted to the internets would remain private. Or put another way, stupid assumptions w
Re: (Score:2)
Debian is not just Open Source, it is Free Software.
Despite the efforts of the OSI to convince you otherwise, all Open Source means is that — get this! — the source is open. As established by the Unix community in the nineties, "Open" means documented and interoperable.
Linux and Debian are fundamentally about Freedom, specifically Freedom to use the software as you see fit. It's reasonable for them to be opposed to things that stand in the way of that, and one of those things is attacks on peopl