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Debian Open Source Linux

After 25 Months, Debian 10 'buster' Released (debian.org) 158

Posted by EditorDavid from the Linux-releases dept.
"After 25 months of development the Debian project is proud to present its new stable version 10 (code name 'buster'), which will be supported for the next 5 years thanks to the combined work of the Debian Security team and of the Debian Long Term Support team."

An anonymous reader quotes Debian.org: In this release, GNOME defaults to using the Wayland display server instead of Xorg. Wayland has a simpler and more modern design, which has advantages for security. However, the Xorg display server is still installed by default and the default display manager allows users to choose Xorg as the display server for their next session.

Thanks to the Reproducible Builds project, over 91% of the source packages included in Debian 10 will build bit-for-bit identical binary packages. This is an important verification feature which protects users against malicious attempts to tamper with compilers and build networks. Future Debian releases will include tools and metadata so that end-users can validate the provenance of packages within the archive.

For those in security-sensitive environments AppArmor, a mandatory access control framework for restricting programs' capabilities, is installed and enabled by default. Furthermore, all methods provided by APT (except cdrom, gpgv, and rsh) can optionally make use of "seccomp-BPF" sandboxing. The https method for APT is included in the apt package and does not need to be installed separately... Secure Boot support is included in this release for amd64, i386 and arm64 architectures and should work out of the box on most Secure Boot-enabled machines.
The announcement touts Debian's "traditional wide architecture support," arguing that it shows Debian "once again stays true to its goal of being the universal operating system." It ships with several desktop applications and environments, including the following:
  • Cinnamon 3.8
  • GNOME 3.30
  • KDE Plasma 5.14
  • LXDE 0.99.2
  • LXQt 0.14
  • MATE 1.20
  • Xfce 4.12

"If you simply want to try Debian 10 'buster' without installing it, you can use one of the available live images which load and run the complete operating system in a read-only state via your computer's memory... Should you enjoy the operating system you have the option of installing from the live image onto your computer's hard disk."


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After 25 Months, Debian 10 'buster' Released More

After 25 Months, Debian 10 'buster' Released

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  • Thanks Debian Developpers! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by godrik ( 1287354 ) on Sunday July 07, 2019 @12:46AM (#58884722)

    Woot! \o/ It's Christmas in July.

    I was actually waiting on the official release to upgrade a few of my machines!

    Thanks for all the fish!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kjella ( 173770 )

      Thanks for all the fish!

      "Debian: Thanks for all the good times but I'm GTFO."

      Probably not the best endorsement if you know the reference...

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      As the dolphins (hey, KDE's file manager is called Dolphin) leave the Earth, we wish to join them in thanking the Debian developpers and developers for 25 moinths of hard work. The wait I hope (as the torrent starts up in the background) has been worth it. We will have to watch how Ubuntu zark it up downstream and if Mint can again unzark it after that. But those are future release. Debian 10 is now!

    • I've been a debian user for 20 years now. First install was on a ppc mac.
      I'm not switching any time soon, so...

      Thanks!

    • Thank you DebVelopers! Pouring up a cognac for them now...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      I'm still using Jessie (v8) on my over decade old custom build PC with 2 GB of RAM, GeForce 8800 GT (512 MB of VRAM), 115 GB SSD, etc. I'll need to redo this box one day especially with its EXT4 partition setups so I'm going to avoid the newer software versions for now (only 408 MB free in its /).

  • still no packaging for lxd.

    the container ecosystem is filled with idiots

  • What a coincidence! Will it run and/or display graphics under the Windows Subsystem for Linux?

  • What about QVWM? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ModernGeek ( 601932 )

    Despite being the best, most lightweight, and easily customizable window manager that's actively maintained, QVWM still appears to be missing from the repositories.

    It is however, present in Arch Linux [archlinux.org].

    • As you may have noticed, Debian doesn't assume a particular window manager. So compile qvwm if you want.

      • Re:Any window manager you want (Score:4, Interesting)

        by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Sunday July 07, 2019 @09:40AM (#58885682)

        Just that they now default to Weyland and fvwm2 dose not support Weyland. Sure, for the moment I can still use X.org, but it looks like medium-term I will need a new distro. To be fair, I have been looking since the demented systemd decision anyways.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by reiscw ( 2427662 )

          I don't think you need to worry about x.org support going away. Too many applications still do not work well on Wayland. Debian will need to support X11 for a long time because many DEs that it ships (e.g. Cinnamon, XFCE) do not currently support Wayland. I would hold off worrying until you see major distros drop x.org support. I don't believe I've seen that happen yet, even with Fedora which of the major distributions seems to make radical changes first. That would be the canary in the coal mine, so t

    • Seemingly no one is working on it. File a request for packaging or an intent to package: https://wiki.debian.org/RFP [debian.org]

    • Looks like fvwm95.

    • It is ugly and dated.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by gwolf ( 26339 )

      QVWM was part of Debian between 1999 and 2009 (https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/qvwm), but was removed (see https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bi... [debian.org]), stating as the motivation:

      * Package is out of date
      * Buggy
      * Inactive upstream
      * Depends on imlib which will be removed with GTK+-1.2

      Having its last release over three years ago, and with its Web page pointing at an unconfigured nginx... I think it has not improved much in the last ten years :-|

  • apt-get --allow-releaseinfo-change update (Score:4, Informative)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Sunday July 07, 2019 @03:16AM (#58884944) Homepage Journal

    If you're coming from Buster/testing.

  • This article shows in detail why Linux will never amount to anything on the desktop. It comes with 12 compositors for two... graphical environments? What are we supposed to call Wayland? and 48 desktop environments.

    Newsflash! People buy computers to run _applications_: office tools, web tools, creativity tools, games. Not desktops. Desktops are just glorified program launchers, something that you briefly see between logging in and doing whatever you were going to do.

    Is Apple boasting how many desktop enviro

    • Seriously this (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I think we reached peak desktop around the Windows 2000 days (perhaps even NT4 before then). Simple, functional, it launches fucking programs, and a simple file manager. I think ReactOS kept this paradigm. Everything went downhill when we started to blend the Web and Desktop. And don't get me started on the Mac Finder which is and always has been an abortion. To this day it can't mount (or unmount) Samba shares without issues. Maybe cause Apple ripped out all Samba code and replaced it with their own. But I

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Piss off, or I'll make you memorize my .fvwm2rc

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dwywit ( 1109409 )

      I'm outta points, but you get a virtual +1 insightful

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Just because you don't understand what a desktop environment is doesn't mean it's not an important part of an OS. Hint: The pixels are not the important part.

      • Since when do you require any graphical desktop environment to run *nix? There’s plenty you can do from a console or terminal. Especially if ssh-Ing into a remote machine that may not support ANY desktop whatsoever.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      People like choices, it's prevalent in practically every industry:

      Auto -> Ford, GM, Fiat, Toyota, Nissan, etc.. with how many models each? When you break it down into categories, there's coupes, sedans, vans, trucks, and motorcycles. Why don't we have only 5 options to choose from, instead of 200+? Even each of those are configurable with options.

      Schools -> In the US, there are 1000+ universities, why not just have one large one? Surely one school fits the needs for everyone.

      Beer -> (Jesus, I

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Quarters ( 18322 )

        All of your hackneyed examples are at a meta level - more akin to picking an OS of choice. A window manager / desktop is a much more granular choice. It's more inline,"Imagine if the English language had no rule on reading order (left to right, top to bottom) - Every time you picked up a book you wouldn't know how to open it". Innovating on the reading order is irrelevant and stupid, as its only purpose is to allow you easy access to the prose - the content. If you don't like English reading order than lear

    • Re:Stop it already with the f'ing desktops! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Njovich ( 553857 ) on Sunday July 07, 2019 @07:16AM (#58885330)

      Exactly, monoculture and planning leads to the best results! Having competing ideas is terrible in terms of efficiency, just start out with the best one and build that. There is no need to involve the client in that equation, you already know what is best for them, so why would you need them to confirm that? You don't need KDE, so why would anyone else?

      Seriously, if you want a mac just get a mac. Your idea that what other people are doing isn't useful and that they should do something useful to you is patronizing. If you are so obsessed about efficiency, why are you spending time on Slashdot instead of doing something useful (like building an office tool, web tool, creativity tool or game as you suggest these other people do)?

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Exactly, monoculture and planning leads to the best results! Having competing ideas is terrible in terms of efficiency, just start out with the best one and build that. There is no need to involve the client in that equation, you already know what is best for them, so why would you need them to confirm that? You don't need KDE, so why would anyone else?

        Seriously, if you want a mac just get a mac. Your idea that what other people are doing isn't useful and that they should do something useful to you is patronizing. If you are so obsessed about efficiency, why are you spending time on Slashdot instead of doing something useful (like building an office tool, web tool, creativity tool or game as you suggest these other people do)?

        This is why Linux will always be a mixed bag of shit and jelly beans, because people want all the flavors and something to hold it together. Like The Homer of operating systems. There's a big difference between a Swiss Army knife and a kitchen junk drawer.

        If that's your thing for fun or profit, FINE, but brags about having the most "competing ideas" are going to be called out.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Not sure that's really holding Linux back. Most of the popular "for ordinary people" distros like Ubuntu an PopOS default to one desktop (GNOME unfortunately) and don't make a big deal of it.

      The real problem is the effort required. If you buy a computer it comes with Windows and it works. You know all the software, all the games, all the peripherals, all the hardware is going to work. Yeah, Linux is pretty compatible now, you can run a lot of games on it... But why would you, when your computer came with Wi

    • Re:Stop it already with the f'ing desktops! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Uecker ( 1842596 ) on Sunday July 07, 2019 @07:21AM (#58885344)

      At some point a couple of years ago I switched to X11/Xfce and never looked back. All the pain with these stupid UX experiments which completely broke my desktop every other year was finally over. A simple desktop which goes out of your way. This was quite a relieve.

    • The problem was already solved back in the eighties; everything else beyond that point has been inconsequential bling

      I was with you until this line. Holy shit do I not at all miss the early days of the desktop. The things you call "bling" many people would call necessary improvements to help clue the user in on what is going on. You say we solved the problem in the 80s? Well in the mid 90s the desktop changed to such a jarring degree with such universal improvements that basically the entire world adopted it for 2 decades to come.

      The problem isn't that people are writing desktops. One day they may blow your mind. The prob

      • Re:Stop it already with the f'ing desktops! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by dunkelfalke ( 91624 ) on Sunday July 07, 2019 @08:05AM (#58885442)

        He was off by a decade or so, but the general point still stands.
        The desktops of OS/2 4.0, Windows 9x, KDE 1.1 were quite decent and absolutely usable if a bit ugly. Then the "not invented here" and ux guys arrived.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by HiThere ( 15173 )

          KDE1.1 was quite usable, but I think that the KDE3 series was the best. With Gnome I have a bit of a problem Gnome1 was better in many ways, and allowed easier scripting, etc. Gnome2 was easier to use in the default configuration.

          I do not understand why anyone would prefer Gnome3, and neither KDE4 nor KDE5 was superior as a GUI, though underlayer interactions improved. But at the same time they broke to old underlayer interactions, so trying to use old programs with the new desktop can be frustrating.

          xf

    • Re:Stop it already with the f'ing desktops! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by theCoder ( 23772 ) on Sunday July 07, 2019 @08:06AM (#58885444) Homepage Journal

      This argument has been made before, but it's just as wrong now as it was then. No one (really) complains that there are too many types of cars, breakfast cereals, clothing, microwaves, smartphones, movies, or couches. People like different things and have different needs. Some people like horror movies, others like superhero ones, and others like romantic comedies (and lots of people like all three). The presence of a horror movie at the theater shouldn't hurt the enjoyment of a romantic comedy, and neither does the presence of KDE in a distro hurt your enjoyment of Gnome (though some might argue that Gnome itself might hurt your enjoyment of Gnome, but that's a different argument :) ).

      The only reason that Windows and Mac only have one GUI shell is because the operating system market is quite distorted (i.e., very few people decide to purchase as OS because of its features). And even then, there are various replacement GUI shells, at least for Windows (I'm not sure about Mac).

      GUI shells (desktops) do much more than run programs. Like text based shells, that is their primary purpose, but they also handle event notifications, program enumeration (like a task bar), program switching, window identification and decoration (i.e., borders and title bar), window placement (location and stacking such as always on top), window transparency, virtual desktops, and desktop zooming. And probably many other things I'm forgetting.

      If you think some of those things are not necessary (like virtual desktops or window decoration), you are probably using a less capable GUI shell. I find it very convenient to click a button in the task bar that toggles the window's always on top property, or makes it stay visible on all desktops. So much so that I have KDE place a real window decoration around various GTK applications that think they can draw their own window decoration correctly (the fact that they are missing those options means they are not). I find it nice that KDE gives me the ability to work with these applications. If I used a less capable GUI shell, then I would have to accept less functionality.

      In summary, more choices means more competition and generally more/better features. It is not "wasted effort" any more than have different genres of movies is wasted effort.

      • Re:Stop it already with the f'ing desktops! (Score:4, Interesting)

        by godrik ( 1287354 ) on Sunday July 07, 2019 @12:01PM (#58886126)

        I posted before so I can't +1 you.

        I don't understand why people get so revved up about the choice in desktop environment. If you don't care, then pick one and move on.
        I do mostly terminal work, so I opted for a tiling WM about 15 years ago. I picked ion3, and I now use its fork notion. It works great for me.

        On my machines, I still have an install of LXDE that is used as a default for other users that have classic enough graphic paradigms. Why do I care that there are other desktop environments? They don't matter to me. And they certainly don't matter to other users. Drop an average windows user in front of KDE or GNOME and they pick it up about as quickly as they would an other release of windows or macOS.

        The only argument that makes sense is that by having multiple environment, we split efforts. But I don't even think that is a problem. Having multiple WM and graphical shell means that we find bugs that we wouldn't otherwise. This serves as an incubator for ideas and I am pretty sure the basic window tiling features of windows come from developers who used tilingWM and thought they needed to bring this to all systems. Also, I doubt the creators of somethingweirdWM would actually contribute to KDE. They have a itch to scratch, so they scratch it.

      • If you think some of those things are not necessary

        No, I never said that. I said we need only one desktop, which we can call "the desktop". And then we can stop talking about it, and go do something meaningful with our lives rather than debating f'ing desktops, as if talking about program launchers is somehow lifting us up from the mud in which we wallow.

        I'd agree with you on the movie thing, except that I disagree that desktops are like movies. Applications are like movies. Desktops are more like ticket booths, where you buy a ticket for a movie. Some are

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          I said we need only one desktop, which we can call "the desktop".

          We also only need one kernel, one C library, one web browser, one word processor etc etc, and yet, we have choices of all of these as well. Do you object to that too, or is your objection levelled at desktops alone?

          If you don't want to make the choice, just accept the distro's default. If that default suits you, then good. If not, then pick another and be glad you were given the choice. And whatever DE you end up with, that is 'the' desktop, for you.

          And then we can stop talking about it, and go do something meaningful with our lives rather than debating f'ing desktops, as if talking about program launchers is somehow lifting us up from the mud in which we wallow.

          ...

          Except of course for the Linux Theatre, where the ticket booth is apparently the defining part of the movie experience.

          There comes a point when hyperbole becomes a strawman.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Misagon ( 1135 )

      I think it is great that there are many ways of doing things ...
      For me as a desktop Linux user, Linux is about choice: that I get to choose my window manager and my file manager and various desktop widgets such as pagers and launchers.

      The problem that has been allowed to grow is that each "desktop environment" is now so very vertical. There is in practice lock-in (which we were supposed to get away from by using open source!), and that apps made using different frameworks don't interoperate well.

      And then, t

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pjt33 ( 739471 )

      Is Apple boasting how many desktop environments they have? Is Microsoft? No; their desktop environments don't even have names

      Aren't they called Finder and Explorer respectively?

    • Is Apple boasting how many desktop environments they have? Is Microsoft? No;

      MS has 90% market share, APPL has 9%, so it is something else to blame for market share - not number of desktops they have.
      According to your "logic" apple should have close to MS desktop market share.

      MS started to implement features from KDE which are at least 15 years old, how is that happening?!

      On top of that: how many developers do you think work on a desktop manager - a few dozen, it is not thousands of people with wasted time and effort.

    • Desktops are finished. We don't need anymore of them.

      Science is never "finished" and people learn, in part, by experimenting. We don't need to accept your goalposts. Free software allows users to express themselves freely, and when people get software freedom they'll implement things you won't like (just as when people get freedom of speech they'll sometimes say something you don't agree with).

      ...surely not worth the collective intellectual might of the open source movement.

      That is one of the weaknesses of

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by deek ( 22697 )

      Those people that use a Linux system just to run applications, they're using the default desktop that comes with the distribution.

      Changing desktops has always been the domain of the power user. Debian is a distribution that is often used by such users. Having multiple desktops available in Debian just makes sense.

      Wasted effort? Not to the developer. They're scratching an itch.

      An open source developer does not wake up each day and say to themselves: "What software can I create today that people need?"
      An

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Have you ever heard of Android?

      Know how popular it is?

      Guess what it and GNU/Linux have in common? Choice and flexibility such as via multiple desktops (launchers), not to mention androids multiple on-screen keyboards. Apple devices were stuck in the early 2000's with their drab basic dumbed down user interface for years and years before they caught on to using custom keyboards.

      So, choice is apparently exactly what most people want. Android give you choice of launchers, camera apps, keyboards and people floc

    • You may be 100% correct -- but all the flame wars over the many different environments prove than an awful lot of people disagree with you.

      Some people likewise think that PCs are unnecessary because they have apps on their phone.

  • Sack the Gnome UX designers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by scdeimos ( 632778 ) on Sunday July 07, 2019 @07:03AM (#58885314)

    Clearly the Gnome UX designers aren't doing their job.

    Boot up the Live image from debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-gnome.iso and you're greeted with an 800x600 desktop. If you go to settings to change the display resolution you can't actually click the Apply button because it's offscreen to the right somewhere. You need to click-down on the Cancel button (drag out before releasing the mouse button) so that the Cancel button gets focus, then you can tab across to the Apply button and press enter to submit it. Argh.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by dwywit ( 1109409 )

      Don't even tell me about the release file nonsense.

      Torrent the DVD disc 1 iso. Use it to feed a new VM in virtualbox. Install, fine.

      apt update

      Your Debian CD (the ISO I just downloaded) has no release file. "No release file". Can't be trusted, so no updates.

      Really? The ISO I just downloaded can't be trusted? No wonder GNU/linux can't make headway on consumer desktops.

      • Don't even tell me about the release file nonsense..... The ISO I just downloaded can't be trusted? No wonder GNU/linux can't make headway on consumer desktops.

        Difficulties with downloading and installing the release file are nothing to do with headway on consumer desktops. Consumer desktops are pre-installed before you even buy the PC. Ever tried installing Windows from an ISO? It's a fucking nightmare.

        • wrong, most Linux desktops in this world are installed by the user on machines that have or had Windows on them.

          This continued lack of common sense and polish by Debian are the reason most people don't use it for desktops, they have their head up their ass.

          • wrong, most Linux desktops in this world are installed by the user on machines that have or had Windows on them.

            That's exactly my point. Linux is not a consumer desktop and won't be unless one day it is widely available pre-installed on PCs. It is a techie's desktop. The reason why Windows and Mac are supreme on the consumer desktop is not because they are easy to install but because they come pre-installed. The OP was trying to say that Linux fails on the consumer desktop because it is hard to install, but that is irrelevant to the consumer because he will not be the one who installs it.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dwywit ( 1109409 )

          "Ever tried installing Windows from an ISO? It's a fucking nightmare."

          I have, it worked. Win10, Hyper-v, and Win Server. It wasn't a nightmare at all. There were other issues, but not to do with installation, initial updates, and a usable machine.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Anonymous Coward

            "Ever tried installing Windows from an ISO? It's a fucking nightmare."

            I have, it worked. Win10, Hyper-v, and Win Server. It wasn't a nightmare at all. There were other issues, but not to do with installation, initial updates, and a usable machine.

            In my experience, Windows or Linux installation from an ISO requires a similar level of effort.

            Where Windows has the edge is that it comes pre-installed on pretty much every consumer machine.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by reiscw ( 2427662 )

      With Debian in my experience, you are better off not using the Live DVD. I don't think the Live DVD receives the same level of attention as the standard installer DVD.

  • No reason to see any systemd complaints here about Debian when Devuan is your answer. For sysadmins, if you know your way around Debian, you already know your way around Devuan. Time to put the Debian systemd griping to bed once and for all when the solution is so obvious.

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