South Korean Government Planning Linux Migration as Windows 7 Support Ends (techrepublic.com) 144
An anonymous reader shares a report: With just seven more months of support left for Windows 7, the South Korean government is planning to migrate to Linux, according to the Korea Herald, which notes that the Interior Ministry will begin "test-running Linux on its PCs, and if no security issues arise, Linux systems will be introduced more widely within the government. The Herald quotes the Interior Ministry as indicating that the transition to Linux, and the purchase of new PCs, would cost about 780 billion won ($655 million), but also anticipates long-term cost reductions with the adoption of Linux. The report doesn't mention a specific distro, instead "hopes to avoid building reliance on a single operating system." "Before the government-wide adoption, the ministry said it would test if the system could be run on private networked devices without security risks and if compatibility could be achieved with existing websites and software which have been built to run on Windows," the report stated.
How will this be maintained? (Score:1, Funny)
Unlike Windows which has AD and GPOs which make massive amounts of machines a manageable task, with the ability to delegate and sub-delegate, how can you manage Linux boxes? The CM tools on Linux are great if you have 5000 disposable web servers and follow the "cattle, not pets" methodology in DevOps, but there is nothing in the Linux arena that comes close to the tools in Windows.
Re:How will this be maintained? (Score:5, Insightful)
I find it far easier to install software on a package-managed Linux distro than any Windows or OS X box. I only need to type the name of the software I want once...
Rather than searching, downloading, and manually installing.
Re: How will this be maintained? (Score:2)
Is that how you think the same application gets deployed to 1000 workstations? The users install it manually? I'm glad I don't work where you do.
Re: How will this be maintained? (Score:2)
Ageeed; you wouldn't do that for 1000 users. You'd use other tools to deploy updates, like having a local apt repository and cron jobs on their images. Or whatever your flavor of fun is.
But it's a heck of a lot easier the first time around.
Re: How will this be maintained? (Score:2)
I don't know why you think those kinds of tools don't exist on Windows
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It's more that you have to jump through hoops to make them useful, whereas virtually every Linux distro comes with package management ready-to-go and automatically accessible. The App Store for OS X fulfills the same need, but again, they were late to the package management party.
I should say, had to, because it appears that Windows has some sort of package management: https://blogs.technet.microsof... [microsoft.com]
But then you have to use Windows 10...
Linux has had this working sanely for decades.
Re: How will this be maintained? (Score:2)
What software are you talking about and what are the hoops you have to jump through?
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Sadly it is where I am. Sccm is there but we don't have approval to do anything and it's easy to give me a ticket to call 12 random people to do these and install activex because it needs to be done now
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Yes, I have. Most of them are very useful, but for me, apt-get is absolutely useless. You see, it's designed to install, update and upgrade
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Ever heard of ssh, shell scripts, apt-get, etc? Yes, I have. Most of them are very useful, but for me, apt-get is absolutely useless. You see, it's designed to install, update and upgrade .deb packages on a Debian system, and I use Fedora, based on RedHat. Instead, I use dnf, which is the RedHat equivalent. In the future, you might give a little more thought to making your suggestions distro-agnostic.
That's what the 'etc' was for, dipshit.
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Re:How will this be maintained? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How will this be maintained? (Score:5, Funny)
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And Linux is the perfect operating system [wikipedia.org] to do that with!
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Bitter, are we?
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I'm sure there's some friendly guy from India who will be happy to remote in and fix all the issues.
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somehow major corporations have been using linux for desktops for many years though. It's baffling!
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Re:How will this be maintained? (Score:4, Informative)
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Over ten years ago I was a system administrator looking after Linux servers for a Canadian government department. I managed the users using multiple LDAP, a master and multiple backup slaves. Similar machines were grouped together based on function and what network they were in. I could give a user permission to access a particular machine, something I rarely did, a machine group, or multiples of each.
Previously each person was given a separate account on each machine. They would have to set a password on
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Fun fact: Chances are that AD server you love so much is actually just OpenLDAP because it's cheaper and does the same thing.
Re:How will this be maintained? (Score:5, Insightful)
If Windows is so great then why are most servers by far running Linux? Why is the internet almost totally run on Linux? Why do all supercomputers run Linux? Why are most movies made using Linux render farms? Why is mobile dominated almost totally by Linux?
Because Windows has no compelling advantages in serving platform-independent information from a network. Internet protocols and services are well defined, so why pay the per-processor cost of Windows? Likewise, supercomputers these days are made up of lots and lots of standard processors run in parallel (render farms are essentially a specialized form of supercomputer). Linux makes sense here because there are no per-processor licensing costs AND you can modify the kernel as needed. This is the same reason Linux does so well in appliances and smartphones.
Windows really only has the desktop, plus server services which integrate with the desktop, like Exchange servers. The vast majority of existing client-facing software is written for Windows, partially because it's easier to do so, but mostly because of simple market share. That ecosystem still matters a lot. Not as much as before, given how much more prolific web-based software is, but it does matter.
It's not that Linux is unsuitable for the desktop. It's just that Windows has a pretty big advantage in market share and availability of applications, so it's a chicken-and-egg problem that's extremely hard to break through. You'll recall that even Microsoft couldn't break into the smartphone market because of this, despite eventually offering a pretty good phone OS, and trying desperately to leverage their dominance on the desktop (which mostly just annoyed their desktop users).
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It's really just that Microsoft hangs on to the desktop desperately by fair means or foul. But in the end, Windows is a net negative on the desktop too, with its awkward posturing against the interests of end users, spyware, vulnerabilities, etc, etc. Microsoft will lose the desktop to Linux as well.
Sheesh, Microsoft even lost their own web hosting space to Linux.
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Microsoft will lose the desktop to Linux as well.
Yep heard that one in 2009. Oh and in 1999 too. You must be one of those people who actually think people give a shit about spyware, and that vulnerabilities that cause grief to end users has to do with the OS rather than exploiting the dumb user to click install. Linux won't save anyone from themselves. Quite the opposite. Windows gives you enough rope with-which to hang yourself. Linux additionally gives you the choice of colour.
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Chill. Maybe you need some reading material. [reddit.com] Just relax, it won't hurt.
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If Windows is so great then why are most servers by far running Linux?
Define the server. Are most servers providing directory services within an organisation running Linux? No. Are most servers providing groupware running Linux? No. Are most servers doing an independent little side gig like hosting a customer facing website running Linux? Yeah of course they are, but then you look back into the organisation and you're back to Sharepoint (no Linux), federated Skype servers (no Linux), or better still outsourced to MS for Office365 (no Linux).
It doesn't help to generalise serve
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Cool story bro. What does that have to do with a government organisation rolling out servers within their organisation? Use your brain for once.
Cue MS (Score:5, Interesting)
Cue MS to march in with "incentives" and "studies" showing how it would supposedly be cheaper both short and long-term to upgrade everything to MS-Windows 10....
I hope South Korea succeeds. And not so much from a financial perspective, because I think that is secondary to freeing themselves from proprietary software. It won't be easy, but of all the large-government movements to replace MS-Windows with Linux, I think this one has the best shot, to-date.
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I hope South Korea succeeds. And not so much from a financial perspective, because I think that is secondary to freeing themselves from proprietary software.
Its the apps that are important not the operating system. They might use the Microsoft Office web app to maintain compatibility. Don't assume Microsoft will no longer be getting any money,
Re:Cue MS (Score:4, Interesting)
>Its the apps that are important not the operating system.
They are both important. Presumably, if Korea is willing to look at other operating systems, they might also be willing to look at other applications, too. In some cases, moving to web-based, in others, changing to an open-source tool, in others getting a vendor to port it, and in still others use emulation stacks or hosted apps.
>They might use the Microsoft Office web app to maintain compatibility.
Certainly an option, as long as MS tries to be open/inclusive. Not as much of a "win", though, but it is great to have options.
>Don't assume Microsoft will no longer be getting any money,
I am making no such assumption. Hopefully MS will be able to make money on products customers WANT, running on the platform of their choice, instead of things they feel are forced on them.
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... changing to an open-source tool ...
Moving to a "replacement" office suite, be it commercial or FOSS, is a little more complicated than most assume. Yes Office file formats are supported so in theory you can import export as needed. However in practice this is too often a little quirky. For reading Office documents, not much of a problem. But as a creator who has to share with others, or one who has to collaborate with others, things get more troublesome. There are often formatting and other minor quirks. Perhaps OK for casual stuff but it c
Office formats are only theoretically supported (Score:1)
EVEN TO OTHER VERSIONS OF OFFICE. Worse if you have the wrong fonts, different fonts or a different driver for your printer, windows will change the layout on the page ANYWAY. But the fact is that Office supports other MS Office formats WORSE than OpenOffice does. The only format Office canonically supports is its own current version, no others.
Re: Office formats are only theoretically supporte (Score:2)
It's not 1999 mate. Documents created in Office 2007 open fine in Office 2016.
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The easiest way to corrupt a MS Office document is to pass it along between a few users who are using a mix of various other versions of MS Office. Corruption practically guaranteed.
Re: Office formats are only theoretically support (Score:2)
If you say so
Re: Utter bollocks (Score:2)
Wow you read an awful lot into two sentences that didn't say anything about OpenOffice (from wonderful OSS Oracle no less). For the record there's nothing wrong with either that or Libre Office but you've got no idea if you think they're a straight replacement for MS Office, especially in large organisations.
Re: Thanks for saying I can read. (Score:2)
Oh no someone questioned my religion, I'd better give them abuse. For the record I hope SK succeed but it's not going to be easy for them.
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M$ is screwed and the US government screwed it. No other government should trust M$ because of targeted updates not anonymous updates that can be altered to hack computers that get the update based upon the user of that computer and from there and from notebooks et al carried into secure premises. The only way for governments to achieve any real security with an Operating Systems is to house their distribution on their servers and keep in up to date as they deem appropriate, after windows anal probe 10, M$
Re:Cue MS (Score:4, Insightful)
They might use the Microsoft Office web app to maintain compatibility.
Won't be necessary, Libreoffice is more than good enough, that is for the stragglers that aren't already using Googledocs and the like.
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Haha. Go do my job as a senior support analyst with VPs that freak out if their precious freebusy or shared group mailbox doesn't mount in Outlook?
A government as huge as SK has lots and lots of MBAs who do sophisticated financial analysis with spreadsheets over 200,000 rows easily!
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Congratulations, you're a museum piece, got to hang you up on the wall by the neck with a brass plate underneath "Last of the Excel Diehards".
Depends on why they're switching (Score:2)
But they might've decided a foreign company running the software on their gov'ts computers is bad juju. In that case they'll complete the change unless Microsoft starts bribing politicians, which might be hard in S.K. given their recent history with bribery.
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When South Korea decides to do something they generally carry it through all the way. Obviously, they had enough of Microsoft and assessed that Linux will work better for them. Really it's not necessary to enumerate the reasons why.
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Only south korea is hopelessly locked in to internet explorer, so chances are what they've decided to do is publish a story to try and get a discount from microsoft...
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Which Internet Explorer would that be? The one that was end of lifed years ok, or the one that is basically Chrome? :-)
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I would think the 1997 ban of encryption requiring IE 6 specific activex controls for any commerce or banking has long been replaced due to the populations use of smart phones.
No one wants to turn business away to a competitor
ActiveX Controls (Score:3, Insightful)
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That had to be replaced a half decade ago by now? SK beats Western countries in smart phone adoption which would require SSL and HTML5
Calling it (Score:1, Flamebait)
Should be great. It worked out perfectly in Germany after all...
In 10 months time, I will link to this post when the article title reads "South Korea to switch from Linux to Windows 10".
It worked 100% fine until MS bought a pol. (Score:4, Insightful)
It was canned by a politician. You know, those people you insist are evil incompetents when they aren't fluffing the ideology you like. That politician was wined and dined and bribed by Microsoft to drop it.
Re:Worked for Germany! oh wait . . (Score:4, Insightful)
It was a new political Party which took control and they don't like freedom and are pro-business. So with the help of Microsoft this new Party came with a plan to replace Linux with Microsoft.
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It did work for Germany and they saved lots and lots money
It's really not about the money, it's about not being spied on and not getting owned by every virus that blows in the front door.
Re: Worked for Germany! oh wait . . (Score:2)
Yep. All Microsoft needs to do is offer some big Windows licensing discounts and a few campaign contributions to key legislators.
This project will then surely die before IT figures out a replacement for that one oddball application that only works on Windows.
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I have great faith in the ability of Koreans to engineer whatever they need to make a particular plan work. China will be looking closely at this.
But... (Score:2)
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Oh, that's easy.
https://alternativeto.net/soft... [alternativeto.net]
New Platform = New IT (Score:1, Insightful)
In the end, running O365 on Linux through C
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the biggest hurdle will be getting the IT support staff up to speed and competent enough to handle the switch.
Ever noticed how the vast majority Windows admins are button clicking droolers, while Linux admins actually know what they are doing, and are invariably make better Windows admins than than the so-called Windows admins do, if they choose to go slumming that is.
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Because for years their marketing pitch has been that windows doesn't require the expensive admin staff that are needed for unix or novell. And people believe that, so you have lots of people with minimal knowledge who claim to know windows but don't dare touch linux.
Anyone claiming to be a linux admin usually has plenty of experience to back up that claim.
The reality however is that windows is actually far more complex than linux once you look below the surface, so all these cheap incompetent windows admin
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FTFY.
Neiother did you. Microsoft did. (Score:2, Interesting)
And paid the politicians to can the scheme, which was working fine.
TmaxOS dead? (Score:2)
I'm skeptical (Score:2)
If they haven't started migration already - and the article says they are only starting testing with 7 months of complementary support left - I doubt this will make much impact - as at the end of the year the quick fix for most of their customers (gov employees) will be to leverage the existing infrastructure and simply migrate to Windows 10.
I think most enterprises like ours are 90% migrated off Windows 7, but we started a year ago and only have 10,000 endpoints it's probably not going to happen this year
This is an empty threat (Score:1, Insightful)
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br> Well, when Munich tried to move off Microsoft, Ballmer had to move their European Headquarters there in order to bribe the local government. ref [theregister.co.uk]
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You really don't get Koreans, do you.
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More likely than South Korea switching, is ... (Score:2)
Microsoft calls the White House, the White House calls Pentagon, Pentagon calls South Korea, and suddenly Linux is no longer on the table, for various "technical reasons".
security issues (Score:2)
What does "if no security issues arise" even mean? Security issues arise every day, in any OS.
let me predict the future (Score:2)
They'll find they have too little time to upgrade until Windows 7 goes out of maintenance, and then they will scrap the project and buy Windows 10.
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I can install Linux on a PC in 20 minutes, and teach a user the basics in ten.
Re: let me predict the future (Score:2)
Great, now they only need to clone you 10000 times to install all the machines and provide support to all the users afterwards.
$655 Meeeelion?? (Score:1)
How much do they figure is going for new computers to replace the Windows 7 ones? Seems like their new distro is a real resource hog. My newest PC is 6 years old.
Great discount from Microsoft! (Score:2)
Watch this July. MS will throw in a free Office365 tennet and consulting similar to how Munich got a sweet deal lol.
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> And does anyone (not kidding themselves) honestly believe you can train government workers from Windows to Linux?
Easily.
End users do little more than launch apps and use those apps. Hardly matters what OS they are using.
Most admins know, at least, some UNIX/Linux.
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Give 'em XFCE with a panel at the bottom of the screen and most of them won't notice it isn't Windows 7. The important thing is to have a nice image for the wallpaper.
Based on a true story.
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That about sums it up
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Well, the entire internet including all the major Portals migrated to Linux and stayed there, and 85% of the smartphone ecosystem, 100% of HPC, all consumer electronics smarter than a toaster, etc etc. It's really unsurprising that major governments are starting to jump on the train.