All Chromebooks Will Also Be Linux Laptops Going Forward (zdnet.com) 135
At Google I/O in Mountain View, Google said "all devices [Chromebook] launched this year will be Linux-ready right out of the box." From a report: In case you've missed it, last year, Google started making it possible to run desktop Linux on Chrome OS. Since then, more Chromebook devices are able to run Linux. Going forward, all of them will be able to do so, too. Yes. All of them. ARM and Intel-based.
well with Linux in Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess it made sense to support Linux in Linux as well.
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2019 is the year of Linux on the desktop. (Score:2)
... thanks to and from Microsoft.
It eventually happened but not as expected =P
2019 is the year of Linux on the Windows Desktop. (Score:3)
2019 is the year of Linux on the desktop thanks to and from Microsoft. It eventually happened but not as expected =P
Yeah, Linux being an "app" on the **Windows Desktop** was not quite what people meant by "desktop". But hey, getting those *nix tool and utilities for Windows is nice, just like it was nice when they came with macOS.
Linux "on", not "in", Windows (Score:2)
I guess it made sense to support Linux in Linux as well.
Linux is available "on" Windows, not "in" Windows. Linux has been granted the same status that OS/2 once held. Microsoft offers a subsystem that runs Linux (ran OS/2) on top of the Windows NT kernel.
Also Linux on chromebooks is hardly anything new. Years ago certain chromebooks and chromeboxes had some esoteric distros. Even some really inexpensive ones that made fine Linux laptops for lightweight to moderate use. It is however nice to see more universal compatibility and more mainstream distro support.
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A POSIX subsystem has been around since the 90s.
They just improved on it. (because it had sat around neglected for decades.)
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WSL will have a full Linux kernel (Score:2)
Actually that subsystem doesn't run Linux at all. To run Linux directly on Windows you'd need something like Cooperative Linux. WSL does not contain any form of Linux whatsoever - it's just a translation layer like all the other Windows Subsystem interfaces.
You need to read up on the recently announced upcoming June release of WSL. WSL will be coming with a full Linux kernel.
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https://devblogs.microsoft.com... [microsoft.com]
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Finally, the year of Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
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Microsoft Windows is Chevy Chase, business is still hanging on like a dirty slut, but it will eventually get disgusted enough to leave as well.
My company is switching over to Windows 10. It's not going smoothly.
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Microsoft Windows is Chevy Chase, business is still hanging on like a dirty slut, but it will eventually get disgusted enough to leave as well.
This has happened multiple times.
Windows 3.1 was ridiculously behind the time in the early 90's. People didn't switch.
Then after the relative success of Windows 95, Windows ME was a disaster, Windows NT was user-unfriendly, Windows 2000 was late and too demanding on the hardware. People didn't switch.
Next time was Windows Vista, a terrible clusterfuck that was late and didn't do half the things it was supposed to. People didn't switch.
And now Windows 10. People aren't switching.
The only thing that kills Win
Windows 7 Revival (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting post, but I think you're not listing a few versions and distorting history to make a point.
Personally, I never liked Win 3.1 (I worked on OS/2 at the time) and felt it in terms of capabilities it was pretty poor - but a lot of people liked it and used it for a good many years. It introduced GUI applications to the populace at large and was fairly robust for properly written programs and was reasonably small (which was needed for the systems at the time).
Windows NT was actually pretty good and created a pretty stable platform for most companies that was easy to support by IT.
Windows 95/98/ME were a separate branch and were simply terrible and died a deserving death.
Windows 2k was the first attempt at bringing corporate and home users together after they diverged with Win NT and Win 95. I thought it was quite good but it required more memory resources than people had in their systems.
Windows XP really brought people together with a platform that worked well and was robust.
Windows Vista was shit from day one and nothing Microsoft could do would fix things. Instead of people leaving Microsoft, they stuck with Win XP
Windows 7 really is quite an excellent operating system and was something that continued to solidify users to Microsoft.
Windows 8 was best described as "meh", didn't change people's minds one way or another.
Windows 10 is at best "meh". I've had an unbelievable number of problems with it but they seem to be going away. When I talk to most people, they seem happy with it.
It's not that Windows is a consistently "dirty slut", it has periodically had good products that meet customers and IT departments needs in terms of working well and that bolsters the brand over and over. It's like if Chevy Chase said in the movie, "I love your tits, let's go fuck." followed by "I'm amazed by your success and the way your got around obstacles" and then "Have you ever sucked a Spaniard?" to then "Your beauty is only matched by your intelligence and style."
There are unacceptable versions of Windows but they are generally followed by ones that work and are supported by corporate IT. I think the average person who's been around feels like if something bad comes out of Redmond, we can keep what we've got and wait for the next version.
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I disagree, partially. Windows 95 was a giant leap forward from 3.1. Built-in dialup networking (no more Winsock), plug-and-play, and Direct3D support. Nothing better was available for home PCs until Win2k, but it wasn't until XP arrived in 2001 that Win95 became completely obsolete.
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Yes there were technology jumps with 95/98/ME that were critical to bringing better capabilities to the home user, but I never found them to be stable enough for me to consider using them. They just crashed too much and USB support (which was very important to me at the time) was marginal at best.
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The problem is that objectively better means little when it's too resource hungry. I remember OS/2 taking twice as much RAM to function properly (8 vs 4 MB) and it was a pretty big deal. I mean we were barely past the MS-DOS 640k limit and extended/expanded memory, getting the most resources to the applications was more important than multi-tasking, process isolation and whatnot. Same reason for the Win95/NT split, what corporate users wanted in NT would have killed the consumer line.
Also, win2k was not mar
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Looking at yours and Ichijo's comments, I think my comments were a little too specific to my needs, capabilities and approach - I wouldn't think twice about upgrading memory or going with a more costly OS (not pirating - I don't seem to remember they were *that* expensive, maybe 50% more than a boxed copy of Win9x) for my home system if it meant more stability and usability.
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Windows 10 is still a meh to me.
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And now Windows 10. People aren't switching.
After the Windows Vista mess came Windows 7, which was an improvement.
Looking at the way Windows is being developed now, there doesn't seem to be any reason to believe an improvement will be coming. It's just going to continue to deteriorate more and more, as Microsoft tries to make it a service and a medium through which to sell things. That's going to start driving customers away from Windows.
Of course, if the next Windows version is an improvement, then people will be willing to stay with it. That's
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The challenge with NT 4.0 was it had very limited hardware support.
For example, no USB support (there was unofficial support via a driver stack from Dell, of all places, that allowed keyboards, mice, flash sticks and printers to work with NT 4.0, but any sort of sudden removal would BSoD the OS) and DirectX was limited to (IIRC) 5.0, which of course killed it off from gaming.
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Windows 3.1 was pretty sad, it's true. But Windows 2000 was actually quite good, and the only big thing missing from Vista was the new FS we were supposed to get. It also was stupidly memory-hungry. And let's face it, Windows 7 is actually quite good as well. Even Windows 10 would be OK if not for the spyware problem.
Business never lacked desktop hardware for Linux (Score:2)
If anything Microsoft is reducing the need for Linux desktops. Many users aren't really looking for Linux, they merely want to run unix tools and utilities. When Mac OS X offered a BSD console with its complete set of tools and compatibilit
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Oh you instant gratification kiddies now a days. 8^)
If people would have walked away because they needed to wait more than a minute for the computer to boot we wouldn't have any computers.
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posting diatribes as an anonymous coward is for losers regardless of the topic!
wait, what did I just say?
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Linux is not a good OS... It has an insane "Code of Conduct" full of absolutely batshit insane language, meaning they have pushed out anyone with even the remotest sanity from the project. Left are only a bunch of insane coders who do insanity like systemd, hardcoded fallback to Google DNS servers, keylogging on the desktop to send to commercial third parties, compromised ISOs, horrible security issues because nobody checks that open source code in reality, absolutely nonexistent sane documentation/help/support, nothing runs on it, everything is inconsistent and shitty and broken and horrible. Asking for help is met with pure sadism. There are so many things wrong with Linux that it's meaningless to put yourself through the torture of trying to use it for (almost) anything. Even the true living nightmare that is modern Windows is *still* somehow better than Linux. It's an amazing feat how they could make something suck so much.
Just show me where the browser is and shut the fuck up about all this other bullshit. You act like I use a computer. It's nothing more than the machine I use to access social media and porn. Like I give a shit about privacy.
- 99.999% of End Users
High school AP Computer Science (Score:2)
You act like I use a computer. It's nothing more than the machine I use to access social media and porn.
[...]
- 99.999% of End Users
Your comment implies that only 1 out of 100,000 people are either employed as programmers or enrolled in a high school or college computing science course. I'd estimate the fraction as somewhat higher than that, particularly as more high schools shift "introduction to programming" from an AP elective to a requirement for graduation.
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Well said..
General purpose computers are designed for and by geeks, the only reason they became widespread is because they were the only way to do certain desirable functions like web browsing. As this is no longer the case and there are now better options available to consumers, expect the general purpose computer market to go back to being a niche for geeks.
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Don't complain, fork it, or fork older versions of it, and make your fork "right". If you can't find enough people to assist, then you are not articulating your vision well and need to go back to the drawing board.
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Make isn't without its quirks though. The biggest I've found involves a rule with more than one output. In a parallel build, Make will run the rule twice at once on the same inputs and outputs, once to make one of the outputs and the second time to make the other. These outputs are likely to step on each other while making the output. Only pattern rules appear to be immune to this, and I haven't found a practical way to turn every rule with multiple outputs into a pattern rule.
not entirely accurate description... (Score:5, Insightful)
google's still gonna be spying on you. no inexpensive and 'ungoogled' linux portable for you.
not only that, the minimal specs most chromebooks have will be strained by running both at the same time.
wake me up when google dumps their version of secure boot and allows you to completely wipe the entirety of the storage drive to install the linux distribution of your choice.
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I just did this. I wiped ChromeOS off my Acer C720, which goes off support next month, by installing new firmware, then Ubuntu 19.04 on it. Works great.
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Nice, my wife's C720 was EOLed as well... I have to do this soon too.
https://ankitrasto.wordpress.c... [wordpress.com]
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HELL YES I care! (Score:5, Interesting)
The login stuff... well, I guess it tells Google that you logged in, do you care about this?
Hell yes I care!
It tells google - and thus potentially the ISP, the NSA, the hotspot purveyor, and any number of other actors - governmental, organized crime, DISorganized crime, ...:
- That I logged in
- at THIS time
- on THAT I.P. address
- was thus about RIGHT THERE
- and all traffic from that I.P. address, until I log out or it's otherwise reassigned, is attributable to me.
No, that's not something I wan Google to know, and sell to all comers, and/or others to intercept.
And I'm just someone with occasionally politically-incorrect opinions. Imagine that for a dissident in some totalitarian country.
Or for someone working on a political campaign or for a political cause in the U.S.A.
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> > "The login stuff... well, I guess it tells Google that you logged in, do you care about this?"
> "Hell yes I care!"
+1000
One is not really running a "Linux machine" if it has to phone home to some other organization or corporation before you can use your OS of choice. Plus, do we REALLY know what else Google is doing in the firmware and "host" OS?
Don't get me wrong.. I think this move by Google is a great thing. And it will be very useful for a lot of people. But it doesn't equate to wiping Ch
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The work to support the hardware with drivers will enable better support for fully liberated chromebooks that have had google's shitty proprietary bios replaced with coreboot, such as with MrChromebox.
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You're not really running two tho, chromeos is already linux with a chrome browser so you're just running additional linux applications not a whole new os.
How long until old laptops are cleared out? (Score:2)
I'd like to be able to recommend a Chromebook to others seeking a compact Linux laptop, but I foresee practical problems with that until A. the major electronics showrooms conspicuously mark which Chromebooks do and don't run the Linux container (good luck with that) or B. the big box stores finally sell out of those that don't. So how long will it take for the likes of Walmart and Best Buy to clear older Chromebooks that don't run the Linux container out of the sales channel?
Re: How long until old laptops are cleared out? (Score:2)
Pretty sure this only applies to laptops released after today. Laptops released last fall all have crostini support (that's the Linux feature the article dances around the name of) but latest Chromebooks will have a newer kernel version which enables more features. Chromebooks never have their kernel updated. If you want the latest hotness wait for Chromebooks released in June 2019, newer production of old models will never get the update.
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Pretty sure this only applies to laptops released after today. Laptops released last fall all have crostini support (that's the Linux feature the article dances around the name of) but latest Chromebooks will have a newer kernel version which enables more features. Chromebooks never have their kernel updated. If you want the latest hotness wait for Chromebooks released in June 2019, newer production of old models will never get the update.
I bought an Acer Chromebook tab 10 recently, it had an update to allow me to use Linux on it. I've either got a new enough kernel already for a device that came out last year, or they have updated my kernel (unlikely) Either way, the implication is that one does not need a June 2019 or newer ChromeOS device to use Linux.
Re:How long until old laptops are cleared out? (Score:5, Interesting)
While this is a valid concern, there's actually plenty of Chromebooks already out there that already do this, and even more that will support it with a software upgrade. It sounds like they're just committing to ALL Chromebooks shipping with it going forward.
Here's information on the supported devices:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Crost... [reddit.com]
https://chromium.googlesource.... [googlesource.com]
I recently bought a Chromebook for my grandparent-in-law and it was very easy to find one on the list, and it already had support available out of the box, I just had to turn it on.
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it was very easy to find one on the list
So is the solution just to print out the list of Crostini-compatible devices (at home or at the library) and carry it into the store?
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Should be. I bought mine refurbished online, so I assume they're easy to find from most sources, though I can't say for sure that stores will have plenty because I haven't gone shopping at a brick and mortar myself.
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If you're buying a laptop, one big advantage of a brick and mortar over online is a chance to try the screen and keyboard first.
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Many people own a smartphone onto which they could load the list.
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Why do you ask questions like that? Answers to that are obvious! Are you THAT seriously autistic that you can't figure things like that out?
1. You either print it out, or write it down
2. There are these things called smartphones, take the list with you on that.
And you're going to tell me that you're such an edge case that you don't own a smartphone in 2019. You..are involved with tech...and don't use common tech. You don't even need a data plan so the cost of a plan isn't a barrier.
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What I'm saying is that this has become no longer an axe to grind.
Re:How long until old laptops are cleared out? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I want to wipe the drive and install a distro.
And you've long been able to do that by putting the Chromebook into developer mode. It works so long as nobody else has physical access to the machine to accidentally wipe it [slashdot.org].
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Yes yes, we know, because you keep mentioning it. Give it a rest already. Chromebooks are single user machines. One use, one chromebook, they're not meant to be shared.
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Yes yes, we know, because you keep mentioning it.
Not everybody reading the comments to this article has already read the comments to other Slashdot articles about Chromebook. Case in point: The comment to which I replied led me to believe that thereddaikon had not heard of developer mode.
One use, one chromebook, they're not meant to be shared.
That doesn't account for people who share a home with someone who doesn't already have his or her own Chromebook.
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Then a little bit of "don't touch my Chromebook, this one is specifically configured for developer use" should do the trick.
Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.
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Yes yes, we know, because you keep mentioning it. Give it a rest already. Chromebooks are single user machines. One use, one chromebook, they're not meant to be shared.
I have a Chromebook, It allows multiple user accounts, even a guest account.
It even has a quick "note taking" feature that does not require a login, just pull out the stylus and the default stylus app opens
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Start here [mrchromebox.tech]
DECIDE:
1) FULL UEFI
2) Legacy Boot area type package.
If 1), Disassemble chromebook and jigger the write protect screw, then boot chromeOS and do the magic button pushes to enable dev mode. Start the CHROSH shell, then run the firmware update script. Do the needful.
If 2), forego the write protect screw thing, but still put into dev mode, and run the script, and do the needful.
Then select a distro.
Full UEFI: Just about any distro you want.
Legacy Bios area install: Gallium OS works acceptably.
This has
Linux-ready (Score:2, Insightful)
I was excited until I read the article. Running Linux in a VM in ChromeOS on a chromebook is certainly not the same as running Linux on a chromebook :/
Container (Score:5, Informative)
It's not quite a VM, as you aren't running one kernel inside another kernel. Crostini is more like a container for GNU, as Chrome OS already runs on top of Linux.
The difference between this and the older Crouton stack is that you don't have to worry quite as much about someone else turning on your laptop, pressing Space then Enter as prompted, and triggering a powerwash [slashdot.org]. A powerwash deprives you not only of the work you did since last push but also of the use of the machine until you return home to reinstall Crouton.
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Give it a rest. Chromebooks are intended as single user machines. Take it with you, or simply say "this is my chromebook, this other one is yours. You don't use mine, I don't use yours."
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Magic 8 ball says "My sources say no."
Can Google extract data from the Linux system? (Score:1)
I can imagine there's a trove of data and sensitive tasks that you simply cannot do on Windows and possibly macOS, that could be collected. How can you be sure Google does not have a way in to the data on your Linux system?
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Since this is linux running in a container on Google's OS, you can go one step further: you can be sure they DO have "a way into the data on your Linux system". Whether they use that way is up for debate, but the way exists and can they can use it at any time they wish.
The era of being in control of your own computing device is drawing to a close. Get used to this as the model moving forward. Only "trusted" OSs can run on the metal. You are allowed to run whatever you want in a container on top, but the
Someday... (Score:3)
We’ll be able to run Linux on a laptop without relying on an emulation layer.
I know, I know... that sounds like crazy talk. But mark my words...
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Excuse me, but OP sounds like the opposite of a noob, unlike you.
Do they support jackd (Score:1)
Re:Potential game changer for me (Score:5, Informative)
Mac is not a walled garden. While it has a store, you are free is run any software you want from any source. It isn't Linux, but it is Unix. The command prompt is a few clicks away and most major Linux/Unix software runs natively.
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Mac is not a walled garden.
Ha ha, that is funny. You are a real entertainer, will you be here all night?
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I think the other guy's point is, you don't need to run Linux. Run the software that you need, since you're able to compile it natively on MacOS. (I guess you're shit out of luck if you need KVM or some other Linux kernel technology, but then I guess don't buy a Mac.)
I wish they had better keyboard layouts (Score:1)
GalliumOS? (Score:2)
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Yes, but will it run Linu...oh wait (Score:3)
"Termina VM" (Score:2)
It seems to me like you could take a traditional Linux application, package it with a light weight distribution like Alpine, and distribute it for Chrome OS.
It's probably not that simple, but it does seem like the more generally relevant use of this feature.
Steam on Chromebook (Score:2)
I wonder if this would let some Steam games run on Chromebooks. Many Steam games run on Linux and if you're running Linux on Chromebooks, you might be able to get Steam games running on your Chromebook. Obviously, storage space might be an issue. Most Chromebooks don't come with much local space as it's assumed that you'll be storing most of your files in the cloud. (Disclaimer: I've only just recently gotten into games from Steam, thanks to a Lego Humble Bundle that got me 8 Lego games for $12 - and I've b
Linux Adoption in Schools (Score:2)
This is an interesting milestone towards wider Linux desktop adoption because many school systems are providing chrome books to their students.
Google apparently has a "Chromebooks in Education" initiative. It feels to me like a slimely government deal that gets them sales but I'll take it over a similar deal from Microsoft.
https://www.androidcentral.com/chromebooks-education-everything-you-need-know
It's a step in the right direction (Score:2)
It's a step in the right direction, but it remains more than a little disingenuous. What about booting Linux natively, with full hardware access, no scary warnings or nags, and no stupid games? Until that happens, Chromebooks aren't running Linux, they are running containers.
Well, technically all Chromebooks are already running Linux because ChromeOS is a kind of Linux. But ChromeOS is a restricted, hacked, kind of Linux, with tons of Google's crappy, not peer reviewed code, and outside developers not welco