Why Aren't People Abandoning Windows For Linux? (slashgear.com) 966
- Updates on Linux are fast and "rarely call for a restart" -- and are also more complete. "Updates are typically downloaded through a 'Software Updater' application that not only checks for operating system patches, but also includes updates for the programs that you've installed from the repository."
- Windows "tries to serve a variety of markets...cramming in a scattered array of features" -- and along those lines, that Microsoft "has gradually implemented monetization schemes and methods for extracting user data." And yet you're still paying for that operating system, while Linux is less bloated and "free forever."
- "Because less people use Linux, the platform is less targeted by malware and tends to be more secure than Windows"
The article also touches on a few other points (including battery life), and predicts that problems with Windows are "bound to get worse over time and will only present more of a case for making the switch to Linux."
Long-time Slashdot reader shanen shared the article, along with some new thoughts on why people really stay with Windows:
I think the main "excuse" is the perception of reliability, which is really laughable if you've actually read the EULA. Microsoft certainly doesn't have to help anyone at all. I would argue that Windows support is neither a bug nor a feature, but just a marketing ploy.
Their original submission suggests that maybe Linux needs to buttress the perception of its reliability with a better financial model -- possibly through a new kind of crowd funding which could also be extended to all open source software, or even to journalism).
Not 'free' (Score:5, Insightful)
It does not come 'free' with the PC/Laptop. Even though they will need to pay eventually (upgrades/subscriptions) people still see it as free.
Re:Not 'free' (Score:5, Informative)
Chrome OS can run exactly one application (Score:4, Informative)
Chrome OS is made to run one application: Google Chrome. If you want to run an application other than Google Chrome, you need a different operating system. And if the Chromebook you own was manufactured before Crostini, that isn't likely to happen.
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Chrome OS is made to run one application: Google Chrome. If you want to run an application other than Google Chrome, you need a different operating system.
That's one view. Another is that the web is the platform that matters. I'm finding that there's less and less that I can't do with web apps -- particularly when you include Chrome apps that can work just fine offline (though the amount of time that I am offline is similarly decreasing). This, of course, is the ChromeOS team's view.
Also, don't forget that Chromebooks can now also run Android apps. That's still a little rough around the edges, but getting better, fast, and Android app developers are starti
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I have owned my Pixelbook for almost 1½ years now. Before that, I had a decked out fully-featured Linux laptop. Ever since I started using the Pixelbook, I have touched my old laptop maybe three times -- once every six months.
To be honest, my Pixelbook is the nicest Linux laptop I have ever owned. And it requires the least amount of maintenance. Pixelbooks get all the newest ChromeOS features first, but other modern Chromebooks such eventually have the same integration with Linux. Things work amazingly
Re:Not 'free' (Score:5, Funny)
Press Space then Enter to lose all data (Score:3)
Most Chromebooks support Android apps
Only if they're from Google Play Store. In order to sideload Android applications onto a Chromebook, you have to put the Chromebook in developer mode, and a Chromebook in developer mode will prompt whoever turns it on to wipe all data [slashdot.org].
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Why don't I abandon M$ for a Linux distribution. Windows came with the hardware years ago, I paid for it, why would I throw it out. So it lasts as long as the old computer it is running on it lasts. Will my next computer be Windows probably not. Will I run Windows anal probe 10, absolutely not. Thinking of a switch on a monitor to run Playstation and Linux or a might tool around with Apple, never current era Appled (last Apple Apple IIe, so I need to find out one day, you really have to run them a whole, co
Perception of lack of security updates (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows makes a BFD of updating your computer or scanning for mal ware.
Ironically the fact that updates are a big deal on Windows machines makes people aware of them. They are aware when one exists and if they haven't done it. This intrusiveness gives you the sense that as long as you stay updated Microsoft will keep your machine happy and healthy.
Linus doesn't provide that feeling.
You are never really aware if the "kernel" (scary) is upt to date or what that means or how to tell.
So it's daunting.
A linux distro with a security CLippy would give people more confidence something was out there keeping them safe and healthy
Re:Perception of lack of security updates (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh yeah. Updates. You mean those Debian updates that come every 3 years or the Ubuntu ones that come every 12 months?
WTF? I guess you've never used them. Security and minor feature updates are available in the repo every few days.
Re: (Score:3)
Ironically yes I think they do. Would you have preferred your mother not reminding you to take your lunch to school every damn day? Asking if you registered for the SATs? Annoying as hell but it also gave you the feeling you weren't entirely without a support network. people were watching your back. Linux is very insular and isolated in expereience. Am I doing this right? Am I up to date? did I accidentally install a bad service or misconfig something when I ran apt-get install trustmeSucker from th
Available apps, Network effect, Switching cost (Score:5, Interesting)
Primarily, there are a lot of people that need an app or utility that is only available for Windows.
Some will argue that there are FOSS replacements for the functionality provided by these apps but most of these FOSS replacements are not Linux specific and run under Windows too. Someone wanting to save money by using Gimp does not need Linux.
Secondarily there is the network effect. As the dominant OS Windows just has more people you can ask questions, ask for help. Same for those dominant non-FOSS apps.
Related to this is virtually any hardware gizmo you might want to buy will be supported by Windows. Linux, maybe not.
In short there is a cost from switching to Linux, software availability, what others are using, compatibility,
Regarding things specific to Linux
To be VERY VERY clear, the above is strictly discussing the typical user desktop. If you want to discuss embedded or server environment, of *nix based workstation use, things are quite different than the consumer desktop.
Re:Available apps, Network effect, Switching cost (Score:5, Interesting)
I was recently in a situation where I needed to maintain fields in an Excel spreadsheet based on incoming PDFs.
The Excel spreadsheet was via Dropbox, contained macros and the free online version of Excel could just about handle it. The dropbox app under Linux also permitted LibreOffice access, I just had to be careful updating when macros came into play.
PDFs were more of a problem. Adobe no longer supports the PDF reader for Linux and several of them arrived in a form where Okular (or LibreOffice) simply could not read them. Some of them rendered badly under Okular, some others looked ok but were missing fields. In the end I had to look at the PDFs under Windows to be sure I was seeing what had been written.
I looked up PDF readers for Linux a couple of years back, around the time Adobe dropped Linux support and there was no other reader back then which could read everything. This is of course Adobe's fault, they kept on adding bells and whistles to their PDF specs until it was a monster full of security holes. Adobe's fault but that does not help someone in that situation.
Re:And Linux users want 'free' (Score:5, Insightful)
A myth. It is well known that Linux users are generally willing to pay more than average for game titles. [compoundtheory.com] I do not doubt that Linux users also earn more on average.
A vanishingly small minority of Linux users refuse to ever pay for software. Contrast this with the mass hordes of Windows users who habitually steal their software, every last bit of it.
Re: And Linux users want 'free' (Score:4, Insightful)
The proposition was "Linux users want free". Which is bullshit. Linux users want freedom, there's a slight difference.
Using Linux is considered illegal tinkering. (Score:5, Funny)
When you buy a Microsoft computer, you agree to use only Microsoft products, including the Windows App Store. Installing Linux is illegal tinkering, and if we catch you doing it, we will delete your data.
- James Kelly, Senior Microsoft PR Executive
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Would love to see him give the same speech to his daughter's boyfriends.
2019... (Score:5, Funny)
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Optimist. The next realistic chance is 2020, when Windows 7 goes out of support.
At that point, I hope some people like me who really hate Win10 will jump ship. I'm planning to for what it's worth. My new year's resolution for 2012 :-)
Re:2019... (Score:4, Insightful)
If that abomination known as Windows 8 couldn't drive users to Linux, don't kid yourself that a little issues like end-of-support lifetime for a very popular version of Windows will do the trick. Remember, we've already gone through this with Windows XP. Experience tells us that most home users will just keep using Windows 7 until their PC dies, while corporations still not ready to switch will pay extra for longer support.
Why? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's got nothing to do with systemd. Most users don't know or care if the system is running systemd or init. It's only an important topic for system admins.
The reason that people are not abandoning Windows for Linux is pretty simple. Windows is a much better, and supported, general purpose operating system for the desktop. It has more tools for doing general office work, desktop publishing, and video editing that Linux has. This is just the nature of the beast.
But that doesn't make Linux useless for the desktop. I've noticed that Linux desktops tend to occupy more specialist niches. An this is where the Linux desktop shines. You can completely customize it for the individual task. The fact that it comes with tools to do this out of the box is a bonus.
Severs is a different story. Outside of active directory I really can't think of many things that Windows Server outshines Linux on. Linux simple makes a far better general purpose server than Window Server does. Infact if it wasn't for AD I doubt that Windows Server would have the presents it does.
Re: Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Re: Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Most people would disagree with you including Microsoft themselves.
Also, seems to me you are comparing a special built Ubuntu-derivative with a non-standard file system that had no business running on a production server in the first place with a commercial grade OS.
Third, there isn't a million viable Linux distros, but four distros that give reliable paid server support; Ubuntu, RHEL, CentOS and SuSE. Everything else is to be considered as experimental/non-supported and should be avoided unless you really know what you are doing.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Arguably, DFS-R is better than any of the Linux alternatives for replication of data between offices.
Biggest reason on the desktop is the same as it was 15 years ago: people like Outlook,
Re: (Score:3)
I would disagree. I've used windows DFS and found it to be cumbersome and unreliable. I set up a glusterfs between several nodes on linux and it was elegant and reliable.
Of course these are just my experiences, doesn't mean your experiences are any less valid.
Re: (Score:3)
Same with DFS on this end. I tried it on Windows 2008R2 ,10 years ago. I remember the link being unreliable and slow. I imagine it has come a long way since then.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Funny)
I have to make the obvious reply:
People who "like Outlook" are sick and need help.
Re: (Score:3)
This is fine. I suppose that allot of ones point of view depends on how much experience one has with the operating system.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
While the parent is funny, it does raise a good point.
Systemd is a great example of the idiotic religious-level infighting that happens constantly between linux "enthusiasts".
Do you know what impact Systemd has to the average user? Fat. Fuck. All.
Do you know what DOES have impact on the average user? A bunch of nerds getting into screaming matches with each other over ultimately pointless details.
People get their panties in a twist over the most bloody idiotic things, like colour schemes and font choices. Meanwhile people who just want something that works throw their hands up and nope over to something that will give them less perceived headaches.
Like it or not, every single one of us represents the image of Linux, and our collective inability to see things with a little perspective is just one of many reasons how people are being actively pushed away from trying linux.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you know what impact Systemd has to the average user? Fat. Fuck. All.
This. Absolutely 100% this.
I thought "I wonder what this Systemd thing is that they're arguing about?". I googled and found an answer on a website called linux.com which I assume is authoritative on the subject. It said:
It's tempting to let personalities get in the way. As fun as it is to rant and rail and emit colorful epithets, it's beside the point. For lo so many years Linux was content with SysVInit and BSD init. Then came add-on service managers like the service and chkconfig commands. Which were supposed to make service management easier, but for me were just more things to learn that didn't make the tasks any easier, but rather more cluttery.
...and at that point I sighed and stopped reading. That attempt at an answer sums Linux up for you. You ask a question about a term, and the answer includes at least five more terms you need to look up. If you don't understand why this is a problem, you don't understand what the "average computer user" wants and/or needs.
OS means nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
The OS doesn't really mean anything at all. The OS only exists to run software which solves specific problems to get jobs done. On paper Linux looks like, but in the real world, it just consistently falls short for desktop usage. It does GREAT in the server world, due to the reliability and performance, but these are less of a concern on the desktop.
On the desktop, we need the ability to accomplish tasks by individuals that are not computer experts and dont have experts sitting around them constantly to ask questions to. Having done tech support in a small business of people who are not tech savvy, routinely being asked how to dial an international phone number, or reply to an email, or send a FAX, these are not tasks that the Linux ecosystem are suited for.
Linux is built for tech savvy people by tech savvy people. Linux is chock full of software engineers, but lacks UX engineers in all aspects of the ecosystem.
Re:OS means nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
It is because Linux doesn't run the software users want.
If you want to play games, run windows sure there are a reasonable amount of games for linux but all major PC games support windows.
If you want to use photoshop run windows
Most good Linux applications are ported to windows anyway.
Also windows comes preinstalled on your computer, so no matter how easy it is to install Linux, and it is fairly easy, it is easier to do nothing, so if you are just running a web browser why bother? I suppose it the simplest way of getting rid of all the adware that comes preinstalled too.
Re:OS means nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
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It's not just that but the point of an OS is to offer APIs so programming is easier.
It is much much much easier to write quality programs for Windows than Linux. This is why all the game platform is dominated by Windows, so is office software.
Windows API's and quality programming should never be in the same sentence. Both OS's require a learning curve to understand their perspective API's, so if you started learning to code in Windows, that will be more familiar to you. However, there is an awful lot of crap code that comes out with the Windows API's. At least with Linux, there is an entire community to check your code and help improve it. As far as gaming, the main reason has more to do with marketing and not the API's. The simple economic
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Every once in a while I try out Linux on the desktop; the only consistent part of the experience over the years has been that it's terrible. Installing software is terrible. The package managers are terrible. It's a complete dumpster fire. A couple times ago I had mixed success with using .deb packages. Then last time, my success rate with "double clicking a .deb file" went to zero - they'd just hang on the taskbar doing nothing. The forums told me to sit and spin; apparently I should have been looking
Re:OS means nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no idea why you're downloading and double-clicking .deb files. We've had package managers for a long time now. Your issue isn't that linux doesn't work well, it's that it doesn't work like you think it does. That speaks nothing to how well it works, and everything to difficult it is to teach people that microsoft's way isn't the best way to do things.
As much as you gave me shit for irrelevant issues, yours of configuring samba is likewise. You're not who this thread is about. Pretty much any average user can download and install linux, and do most of what they currently do in Windows out of the box.
It's sometimes rather baffling how disconnected from what users actually use their computers for the average slashdotter is.
Re:OS means nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
The software I wanted hadn't been updated for a while, and all there was on some old website was either source or a .deb file to download. Since I just wanted to run the software (and not have a fun romp through a bunch of old dependencies), I took the deb. That whole part seemed pretty reasonable, and it seemed to be installing. And then it hung, icon lingering on the taskbar, process gone.
So I gave up and installed it from the command line. But I was curious if I'd messed up somehow, so I checked online. I found forums filled with miserable angry nerds who were mad at the question. The underlying problem has apparently existed for years. Nobody, like, doubted that the installer was broken. That seemed to just be accepted reality: of course it doesn't work. Why would you even try that? Sure software center (or whatever) might try to do something when you click on a deb file... but you can't really think that'll work, right? You are dumb. You need to learn how a real OS does things. Great.
On the other bit, connecting to a network so you can get some files is not some crazy arcane thing, and it's pretty easy to do that with Windows. Technology wise, Samba works fine for doing this job - once I gave up on the UI, it worked fine. So yeah... maybe I'm crazy, but I think it makes sense that there's a UI for configuring Samba in a Linux distro. But I don't think anyone involved cares whether it works, and it doesn't. (Or didn't, anyway, that one was actually a problem from years back).
Re:OS means nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
And you've never encountered old windows or mac software that hadn't been updated in a while, and consequently was painful/impossible to install on the latest version? The internet is littered with such things.
Re: (Score:3)
Not all software is available in package managers. For example, Chrome isn't there in Ubuntu. I tried to search for "steam" but the web site just gives me an error.
Hardware compatibility is still an issue too. Couldn't get my document scanner to work and there doesn't seem to be any equivalent to the document management software that NEC provides with it. Maybe there is some software but I couldn't find it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The OP you replied to is EXACTLY what this thread is about. Hell you didn't even have to read the article in this case. The headline "Why Aren't People Abandoning Windows For Linux?", is quite sufficient to give us an idea what this thread should be about. JMZero posted his reasons why, you then proceed to 'blame the victim'.
Maybe another reason people aren't moving to Linux for the desktop experience is having to interact with its zealots.
It's everyone else that is wrong! (Score:3)
I have no idea why you're downloading and double-clicking .deb files. We've had package managers for a long time now. Your issue isn't that linux doesn't work well, it's that it doesn't work like you think it does. That speaks nothing to how well it works, and everything to difficult it is to teach people that microsoft's way isn't the best way to do things.
Maybe this needs to be said more bluntly, you can get all your facts right, but in the end nobody cares! Suzy in purchasing has and never will think abo
Autodesk software (Score:5, Informative)
That's it, really. I need to be able to run AutoDesk AutoCADD, Inventor, and Revit. If someone can demonstrate those (with all their built-in components, rendering, and plug-ins) running nicely with full capabilities on any type of Linux, I will happily make the switch.
And no, FreeCADD and Blender are not valid substitutes. Sorry.
Re: (Score:2)
I tried in the last month to get Fusion working in linux. I gave up. So I have a dual boot for the Autodesk and adobe suites.
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It's more fundamental than that: people don't care and Windows is installed when they buy their machines.
Linux is fractious (Score:5, Insightful)
Lots of distributions. Lots of ways of doing things. Systemd or not. rpm or dpkg or portage or one of the other dozen or so package managers. Lots of old documentation hanging around telling you to do things that don't work any more. Binary drivers or not. X11 or Wayland. GNOME or KDE or neither.
Putting aside the argument of wasted effort, it's just confusing for the average user. Even those of us who are capable of navigating these waters may easily grow tired of the hassle.
Re:Linux is fractious (Score:5, Interesting)
Thank you. Came to say something similar. Every day on here someone talks about a video or audio driver which doesn't work and the hoops they had to jump through to get something to work. Somewhat.
"Oh, it's not bad. Just go to xyz/fjg and do wth~ to unload the driver. Then go get the 2.4.1a version. If you get anything higher your video will look like Don King's hair. Then unload the driver into yur\opq\mnb and set the parameter to . . ." And on and on and on.
And which distribution? There are what, 200 different flavors of linux? The person has to do research to figure out which one might be the easiest for them to use, but if they're essentially computer illiterate they stop when they see all the choices.
People want something which works. For all the whining about Microsoft and Apple, their software works. Linux, not so much.
Re: Linux is fractious (Score:5, Informative)
Your an idiot. Linux is Easy to use. Problem is lack of software. I can't use any OS that doesn't have putty.
"Your" either trolling, misinformed or just stupid. https://www.ssh.com/ssh/putty/... [ssh.com]
Re: Linux is fractious (Score:4, Informative)
Why can't it be all three?
Re:Linux is fractious (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm using Kubuntu on my laptop right now as I type this and I have to say that you are so unbelievably and short-sightedly wrong that it's incredible.
It is NOT easy to use. There is not one single distribution that is easy to use. It's relatively easy for ME to use, and presumably easy for you as well, but I've been using computers for several decades. I am a software developer and a sysadmin. I also know how to set the dip switches on an internal ISA modem to their appropriate IOMEM and IRQ values.
Having the skills to do that puts us at an advantage so overwhelming compared to the average person, that picking up some obscure OS and using it is as easy as cooking microwave popcorn.
Linux is only "easy" if you stay within the confines of a specially curated garden so small that Apple is jealous. And even then it's not all kittens and rainbows. Open up Discover now and look for, say, Visual Studio Code. Which version do you pick? Do you use the regular install? The snap version? The flatpak version? Do you honestly think the average user is going to have any idea what those even are?
At a broader scale, how is the average user even going to know TO use Kubuntu? I went through 5 different distros just to find that one that gave me the least grief for what I was trying to accomplish. A snowball has orders of magnitude better odds of surviving in hell than an average person will have the ability to know which distro to pick.
And never mind edge cases, like trying to get it working properly on a laptop configure with Optimus graphics. Assuming you don't have issues installing the drivers, you literally need to log in and out to switch between video chips. I'm sorry but that's idiotic. And no, I don't care that it's "Nvidia's fault". Avg joe user certain isn't going to care. All they will care is that they have to jump to needless hoops in Linux that they wouldn't have to do if they were using Windows or Mac.
This is why something like ChromeOS is winning. Because it's one single known quantity that is consistent across everything. Doesn't matter what Chromebook you buy, it has ChromeOS, and it will act the same no matter who made the hardware. Also, the hardware may vary but never to the point where issues like the one I described above will ever come into play.
Hell, even as a techie, I still find myself getting frustrated when I have to drop whatever I'm doing and do a deep dive into the OS in order to do something that I would never have even considered needing to worry about in another OS. For example, I've managed to lose complete access to my trackpad because I had tried out the "disable trackpad when mouse plugged in" option. Kubuntu somehow thought my trackpad was simultaneously a trackpad and a mouse at the same time, and disabled it. I had to plug an external mouse in to recover because I couldn't even disable the option until I did. That sort of problem is inconceivable in the Windows or Mac worlds.
The point is, the aspects of Linux that us techies cherish and drool over, are the exact same ones that alienate the general populous. The issues that are annoying to us are insurmountable to the average person. And the level of arrogance that too many tech people have, blind them to glaring faults that alienate the average person.
Re: (Score:3)
Wow. Have you met an average computer user ever in your life?
You're trying to configure niche graphics and write code, which makes you not an average user. Everything you posted here was, "I have to do really complicated things that most people don't need to do on my computer, and that's hard." Yeah. It is.
The average person surfs the web, writes some documents, uploads photos, and watches youtube and netflix. And curates their Instagram.
It doesn't really matter which OS you use to do these things at this p
Re:Linux is fractious (Score:5, Funny)
You're trying to configure niche graphics and write code
Actually it sounded like he was trying to play a game and finish a shitty highschool assignment.
Because windows works well enough (Score:5, Insightful)
For the vast majority of users windows works well enough. And their PC / Laptop came with windows.
So there is no incentive to change.
Re: (Score:3)
For the vast majority of users windows works well enough. And their PC / Laptop came with windows.
Linux is a lot easier than that these days. TBH installing something like Linux Mint on a new machine is easier than installing Windows and much much quicker.
There is no known Linix Installer that is "easier" than pre-installed Windows.
Installing Windows 10 on a new PC is trivial, Linux is incrementally (but not excessively) harder - off the top of my head, Ubuntu asks about percentage of disk usage, permission to make changes to the HD and something about GRUB. In contrast, Windows asks you to pick a drive and then it's off to the races. For a technical user, the installs are about equivalent, for a non-technical user, Windows gets the edge in my opinion.
Because of one thing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Just my 2 cents
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah it's the consumer's fault that Linux is fragmented, has little to no mindshare outside tech people, demands arcane knowledge to do many simple things and has a lot of condescending tools that would rather make people asking for help feel stupid than making the effort to educate them.
Not Practical / Cost Efficient (Score:5, Interesting)
I manage a small network for my parents. My dad is a lung doctor, and my mom is a nurse [stinarsleepmedicine.com]. I cannot get their current EHR system [amazingcharts.com] to run under Linux (WINE) and wasn't able to get their previous EHR to run under Linux either. So, for them, I do not save the thousands of dollars that were required to be spent when Windows XP was deprecated, and thousands of dollars again now that Windows 7 is approaching it's end-of-life because I cannot run one critical desktop application under Linux.
We evaluated OpenEHR. It would have required substantial modification to be able to collect, and present, patient data in the manner that would have been useful to their medical office. My software development company could have provided these modifications. As could another, more experienced, software development company that supports OpenEHR. We came to the conclusion that those modifications would be more expensive, and risky, than the commercial licensing, and constant Windows replacement costs. The commercial solution was ready, out of the box, and (not very well, but still) supported.
Until Linux offers better desktop application replacement support, there will be many corporate environments that depend on Windows application which cannot be migrated. WINE is not easy to get everything running under.
The software development company [noventum.us] I use relied exclusively on Linux, and open-source software for our developments. However, that does not mean it is a good solution for everyone. Saying "everyone should use Linux" is just as wrong as saying "everyone should use Windows." There are different use cases for different technologies, and attempting to shoehorn everyone into a one-size-fits-all approach doesn't (in my experience) lead to a good outcome.
Games (Score:2)
I want to play video games and they develop for windows first and linux as an afterthought. Proton is nice but its not native support nice.
I might, next year (Score:2)
I might stop using Windows when MS stops offering security updates for Windows 7 (in January, unless things change). I have never heard of a single feature of Windows 10 that is attractive to me. Almost everything I see and hear about it makes me actively not want it.
I've already had, for several years, a dedicated Linux desktop that I use almost daily. I have peccadilloes with Ubuntu and Gnome that I'm sure I could fix if it were my primary OS. I mostly hang on to Windows because of proprietary software su
Too many distros (Score:2)
Which people? (Score:3)
It seems to be happening at least in USA (Score:2)
Someone call the cops, animal cruelty! (Score:5, Interesting)
Cause slashdot is beating a dead horse.
Joking aside, Linux support has gotten better from the days when posting on a forum would be met with RTFM. It's still not enough to get folks to turn away in masses to Linux. I honestly don't know what the answer is.
It's not games. Valve went as far as to create their own flavor of Linux.
It could be apps. I find that MsOffice is still better than everything else out there. I'm great with Gimp simply because I'm too cheap to pay for Adobe products, but adding stroke to text is still a lot more difficult than it has to be (select layer, convert layer to path, etc)
It could be hardware compatibility. Some of the more "pure" distro's refuse to include binary drivers.
It could also be my cousin Vinny, who is sort of defacto tech support for aunt Jenine (I really don't have an aunt or cousin named that)
Maybe it's the ease of entry as a professional. Windows 10 basic cert is easy, Linux, not so much.
Maybe it's something I just heard in my Security+ training, that GUI's prevent mistakes.
Maybe it's the accountability, you know who you're dealing with, there's at least some central number to call for support, instead of a fragmentation of 10 different companies.
Maybe it's the government, who still swears by windows for a lot of things.
I really don't know. I know I'm typing this from Windows, in a chrome browser. I have my reasons. Having been on slash since the beginning, this question is just never answered. It's almost like Incels asking, "Why can't I get laid?"
It's the Apps, man (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux is wonderful for sure.
But it's basic issue with toppling Windows dominance over the desktop is Apps. Plain and simple.
Until developers start pushing out major Apps for Linux, it's going to remain in the shadows, running all the backend stuff like it always has. Linux simply has no hope on the desktop until it gets the App support from major companies, like Windows enjoys now.
Which leads to the second problem for Linux. Fragmentation and poor compatibility from distro to distro. There's just no standard for developers to follow, that would ensure their stuff will run as desired on any given Linux desktop. There's ton of different UIs, different display servers, different system tools, different locations for common stuff. Even the basic libraries installed on any given Linux desktop are rarely the same as they are for another one. Different versions of just about everything plagues Linux's viability for big corporation's developers.
Even Steam can be a bit of a chore to get working properly on a Linux desktop install. You gotta make sure the right libraries are in. And even when you get it working, there's absolutely no guarantee any of your games will work. They might. They might not. Windows does not suffer from this issue. You buy a piece of software/game for Windows. It will work. Period.
Don't get me wrong, Linux's various distros have come a long way in addressing compatibility and dependency issues for their software repositories. But, from my view, it's still too much of a disaster for big corps to make the investment in developing their big App suites for Linux.
Once big name corps, like Adobe and Microsoft for example, start pushing out Linux versions of their flagship products, Linux will have arrived. But until then... we're stuck with Windows.
Because everything is spying on us, so fuck it. (Score:2)
In theory the one benefit OSS/F software can offer us is better security. Those who are able have been willing to pay the price of a little inconvenience for that. In professional settings, against casual attackers this still holds true. In daily life? No. The attack surface is too big, the job of securing things too complicated, the likely attack is more often social engineering than technical, and state level actors can compromise the system at lower levels outside the scope of the kernel. They can
Because Microsoft gave Win 10 away (Score:3)
Free isn't enough. It needs applications. For end users that means Office (lots of folks still use the native version) and games. Steams' custom WINE doesn't run everything.
Too many hassles (Score:2)
I've been using computers since the late '70's. Am an Embedded hardware and software Engineer.
Each time I build a new PC, I install Linux and give it a try. But every time there's a show stopper.
Mostly unable to run my Engineering programs, PCB design, etc.
But also a vague feeling that it was written by amateurs.
Poor documentation, configuration files scattered everywhere, childish images and colour schemes.
Inconsistencies with the GUI.
Whatever, I'm certainly no fan of Windows. I keep hoping that something
Let's not underestimate the power of inertia (Score:2)
It's been 70 years since the standardization of the metric system, which is arguably superior to Imperial units in every way -- but Americans still use the latter, because it's what they were taught, and what they know, and what they are comfortable with.
It's been 38 years since the standardization of the Dvorak keyboard layout, which is faster to type with than the Qwerty layout, and yet very few people use Dvorak, because Qwerty is what they were taught, and what they know, and what they are comfortable w
Re: (Score:2)
Why I dont' run Linux as my primary Desktop... (Score:3)
I don't run Linux as my primary native desktops (but do run it on my laptop and in a bunch of VMs). The primary reasons are:
- I rely on Quicken (not the online "my financial data is only one hacker away from being published" or "my data is gone because the vendor disappeared or just decided to delete it due to a 'retention policy' " version) and it's not available/supported on Linux (yes, I tried to run it on WINE but it was unusable from a performance standpoint and, anyway, then it's only one Quicken or WINE update away from breaking on an unsupported platform).
- I also rely on HR Block tax software (again, not the online "my financial data is only one hacker away from being published" or "my data is gone because the vendor disappeared or just decided to delete it due to a 'retention policy' " version) for my tax prep every year and, again, no Linux version exists (and, for a variety of reasons, I need to look back at taxes for many years beyond the "norm" so "working today" is not good enough).
- While BSOD used to be a modestly regular occurrence on Windows even just 15 years ago, I haven't had it happen for years on Windows (Win 8.1 Pro now), Ubuntu updates break my systems from time to time (which is one reason I run them in a VM -- just restore a checkpoint and try to isolate the problem by selective updating) - I currently have several VMs that I have to remember to uncheck the GRUB updates when doing updates or the system won't boot (yes, I'm sure I could figure out what's wrong, but it worked fine just a few months ago and I've got other things to do than dig into code that I will never update or contribute to).
Perhaps, when forced to Win 10, I will downgrade to a single Win desktop with RDP access for the family for use of essential "Windows Only" software -- but that will depend on the state of Linux desktop then (and, my hopes are not high).
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Graphics, Outlook and Excel (Score:4, Interesting)
For many users, Outlook and Excel are the reason. Granted, the Outlook web interface is pretty good, but it does not quite equal the native client. With Excel, the Linux alternatives are poorly known and a point of (often unjustified) concern. I'll add that the Excel interface is generally better than the open source alternatives as well, particularly with things like column fills and conditional formatting.
Finally, let's think about graphics and sound, which are still sketchy way too often on Linux after all these years. Just a month ago, I watched a skilled Linux sysadmin spend days trying to get a 3-monitor setup to work properly. He ultimately succeeded, but what a nightmare!
This again ? (Score:5, Funny)
How many times does it have to be explained before it finally sinks in ?
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more . . . . .
It isn't because we like Microsoft. It isn't because we hate Linux.
( I use both depending on what I'm doing )
We don't abandon Windows for one simple reason:
MANY OF THE APPLICATIONS WE USE DON'T EXIST ON LINUX.
It's the same damn problem VR has. Developers don't want to commit resources to something that so few use while, at the same time, so few will consider it because very little is developed for it.
Some have Linux versions ( like Maya ) but, for the most part, many of the professional / commercial applications I use on a daily basis do not.
There may be some open source alternatives but, none of them quite stack up to their established commercial brethren.
This, and only this, is why ( like it or not ) I am f*cking stuck with Windows.
In case you're curious and you want to go find me some free, open-source version *** that performs as well as any of the following ***, here's my list:
The entire Adobe CC suite
Maya & various Maya Plugins ( covered, it works in Linux too )
Zbrush
Rhinocerous 3D w/ Brazil
Substance Designer / Painter
Keyshot
Capture One Pro
Cubase Pro
Sibelius
Various Musical Instrument Libraries
The driver that ties my synth to the DAW
The day all the above developers create a Linux version, I'll switch.
Until then, Windows it is.
Software is the biggest obstacle (Score:3)
I have used Windows 10, macOS, Linux (lots of flavors, including Mint, Debian, Fedora, Manjaro, and various Ubuntus). Right now I am reasonable convinced that Windows is the best solution for me, although I miss Linux often. The biggest issue for me is the availability of software. Here are some immediate ones that come to mind:
1) The software I use to prepare my taxes (the browser version is more expensive if you can believe that)
2) Skype for business (necessary for my work at my university)
3) Acrobat Reader (necessary for some tax paperwork that requires submission by PDF)
4) Microsoft Office
5) iTunes (because I have an iPhone)
I bought a lifetime license for Crossover Linux because I wanted to support the Wine project. Wine will allow me to get by with an older version of Office (rather well, actually) and some other useful software (like the Epson wireless projection utility). The other items on my list don't work well with the latest version of Crossover. Many of the programs that I run in Linux (Thunderbird, Geany, Eclipse, wxMaxima, Octave, VLC, just to name a few) have Windows versions that work exactly the same way.
Windows also has better search from the start menu for documents and applications, something that only KDE seems to do well, and KDE has its own problems. Don't get me wrong, I spend a lot of time removing all of the asinine parts of Windows 10 from a Powershell session when I do a clean install, but that's not much different than the scripts I use to configure Linux distributions after I install. The addition of the Windows Subsystem for Linux also provides a lot of missing functionality (although it is much slower).
I know the VM solution will probably come up here, but I feel that if I have to use a Windows VM for certain tasks and a Linux host for others, I'm forced to configure two systems for my personal machine and that's time I don't have.
The Rings (Score:4, Interesting)
I've thought about this recently, and it goes something like this: I think there are some rings which help categorize whether using Linux makes sense...
Ring 1: Development Applications.
IDEs
Text editors
Compilers
Ring 2: Server Applications.
Web Servers
Routers/Firewalls
Storage/Data Transfer
Databases
Ring 3: Lowest-Common-Denominator Desktop Applications.
Desktop Window Environments
Productivity/Office Suites
Web Browsers
Mail Clients
IM Clients
Audio/Video Players
Ring 4: High Level Desktop Applications.
Audio/Video Editing
Architecture
Finance Software
Legal Software
Medical Software
Point of Sale Software
etc....
Rings 1 and 2 are things that software developers tend to know a lot about, making it very easy to code them well. In most cases, software fitting into those categories are superior to Windows-only applications. The LAMP stack is basically the default for web hosting at this point, and plenty of software-based routers run on Linux or BSD while doing that on Windows is almost comical to suggest.
Ring 3 is pretty mature in general at this point, but it's pretty easy to need a particular function in Excel that isn't available in Calc or some such. The more complex the needs are for a particular application, the more likely the Linux equivalent is going to be a bit of a problem. Even if it can handle it, the learning curve makes it undesirable without an even bigger reason to do it.
Ring 4 is hit-or-miss. Content creation creeps along on Linux, but it's far from mature, and lots of plugins aren't available for the platform. Plenty of line-of-business software *needs* some sort of commercial support, and it's the chicken-and-egg problem that everyone runs Windows because their vendors require it, but none of the vendors make Linux software because virtually none of their clients are running Linux on the desktop. Lots of high profile use cases simply require Windows (or possibly OSX) because there's no reason to develop for what will likely be a support nightmare, and even if one vendor tries to standardize support on Ubuntu, everyone's SoL if the next vendor standardizes on CentOS.
On the dubiously-good side for Linux adoption, the everything-in-a-web-browser trend makes the number of software titles requiring support to decrease as time marches on, making it easier to switch. However, anybody arguing that it's easy to switch has clearly never worked in tier 1 tech support.
It depends on the use (Score:3)
If all you do is email, web browsing, word processing and spreadsheets, linux is fine
For CAD, CAM, electronic design, PCB layout, image editing, video editing, music production, and other specialized stuff, you NEED windows
Please don't tell me that there are alternatives for all of these on linux. Yeah, they exist. but they are not even in the parking lot of the ballpark of the same quality
If you need Cubase, Altium, Solidworks, etc... there is no choice
Microsoft networking is crap (Score:3)
I have heard that Microsoft used the BSD stack for their networking. If so, msft must have worked overtime to make it suck. BSD has good networking IMO.
Workgroups, homegroups, only having selective versions of Windows that can join a domain. It's a mess, and getting worse.
Aside from that, in my experience, msft networking just does not reliably work. Copy a large number file from one box to another, and many of the files may get dropped; or it may crap out halfway through. There are ways to do this more reliably, but you should not have to use special hacks.
I was recently asked to help somebody move her files from an XP box, to a Windows 10 home version box. She wants the XP box set up so she can go through it, and copy what she wants where she wants. Should be nothing to it, but it's actually a pain. Put both versions of windows on a workgroup, have full admin privileges. But windows will not allow some directories to be shared. I am not the only person who has noticed this. Windows forums are filed with similar complaints.
Msft offers help pages on this sort of thing. But msft's documentation simply does not work. Msft instructs users to follow a particular procedure, but the OS will not allow it. Crap documentation for a crap OS.
I am not looking for help on this. Just posting my opinion.
Re:Come on now (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. Until any version of Linux can run Photoshop or Capture One (or as someone below said, AutoCAD), or any other mainstream software which people use on a regular basis, people are not going to use it, even if it's free.
People want to either insert a disc or download the software and get it to work. The first time.
Until this massive obstacle is removed, Linux will be relegated to its insignificance in the personal computer market.
Browsing, media, and emulation work on Xubuntu (Score:4, Informative)
All I want is a computer that can securely have a browser, run emulators for my old school video game roms, play my mp3 collection and play all my movies ripped from DVDs. Can Linux handle all these basic tasks?
The Xubuntu operating system runs (among other things) Firefox browser, VLC media player, Mesen and FCEUX for NES ROMs, Mesen-S and bsnes-plus for Super NES ROMs, and mGBA for Game Boy and Game Boy Advance ROMs. Install Wine, and it also runs BGB for Game Boy debugging, j0CC-FamiTracker for composing chiptune music, and OpenMPT for composing sample-based sequenced music.
Re: (Score:3)
Even if people wanted to distributing non-trivial commercial software for Linux it's impossible without releasing a dozen different versions to target a sufficiently wide range of distros and versions.
I thought you just needed to make a build for Flatpak or perhaps for Steam Runtime. What am I missing?
Re: (Score:2)
The rise of steam, mmo's, always online drm and f2p games means the average pc and software consumer is a fucking moron.
No, it means that the average pc gamer is a fucking moron. The average PC and software consumer has probably never heard of steam, mmo's, and f2p games.
Re: (Score:2)
The rise of steam, mmo's, always online drm and f2p games means the average pc and software consumer is a fucking moron.
No, it means that the average pc gamer is a fucking moron. The average PC and software consumer has probably never heard of steam, mmo's, and f2p games.
I don't think it means either of those things. Steam works better for a lot of people than boxed games did. No more lost or scratched discs, lost CD keys, no more infinite updates whenever you have to reinstall. Built in cross-game chat. It's not perfect, but it helps more people enjoy more games.
Re:Were you not paying attention... (Score:4, Interesting)
The last thing you want to do when you home is spend energy trying to figure out why your computer isn't working. So it isn't a case of deliberate ignorance, it is a case of being worn out at the end of the day and not wanting to deal with another problem. Windows is a know entity that works well enough. The barrier to entry for linux is that everything looks different and acts different enough that people don't want to have to be retrained, especially then they have to use windows at work and Linux at home.
Don't talk when you don't know anything (Score:2)
People ARE abandoning Windows for Linux... (Score:2)
Windows 10 has been the single best thing Microsoft has ever done for Linux. Well, that and the Vault 7 malware release from the NSA. That was the day I stopped using Windows 7 and went back to Linux. But even my dad decided to finally abandon Windows for Linux after Microsoft forcefully "upgraded" his machine to Windows 10 without his permission and then failed to properly put back one mystery DLL after downgrading back to Windows 8.
Lots of people are using Linux on their phones and tablets these days. You
Re: People ARE abandoning Windows for Linux... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Windows users don't realize you have a plethora of desktop options, including making your own if no others appease your likes. It is the most common reason I hear people say they wont switch
Re: (Score:3)
With Steam Play, A shit ton. There is also a good hand full of native AAA titles there is a wiki somewhere dedicated to it if your're really curious. Steam is the best thing to happen to Linux in a long time, they are giving incentive to the people stuck on windows for gaming a reason to switch and abandon the torture.
Re: (Score:3)
Native games or through Steamplay with Proton? I'm primarily use my PS4 for games, but I have tried a couple of games through Steamplay: Star Trek Online and Fallout 3.
Here's a database of games tested with Proton, which ones do or do not work. The number of working games keeps increasing over time
https://www.protondb.com/ [protondb.com]
And here's the native Linux/SteamOS games page on Steam:
https://store.steampowered.com... [steampowered.com]
Re: Because Linux sucks. (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.pugetsystems.com/l... [pugetsystems.com]
https://davidyat.es/2016/09/08... [davidyat.es]
https://ubuntuforums.org/showt... [ubuntuforums.org]
https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/... [reddit.com]
https://bufferoverflow.io/gpu-... [bufferoverflow.io]
http://vfio.blogspot.com/2015/... [blogspot.com]
https://www.se7ensins.com/foru... [se7ensins.com]
There is literally 100 guides to this, whoever told you you need more than a $100 GPU and a cpu that supports VFIO lied to you and you should never trust another word they say.
Re: (Score:3)
This is a flat out lie. Install chrome, uses GPU out of the box for rendering, same with Firefox which comes preinstalled on 90% of distros.
Re: (Score:2)
You don't compile on binary Linux distro. You just install and then the installer does its thing and the program is ready. You can get a source distro like Gentoo Linux if you want to learn. Most people can use Debian stable or just some other distro that fits their need.
Most people also just have phones or smart tablets today. They don't use normal PC's today. Most phones are using Android today and that is a Linux distro in it self.
Re: (Score:3)
You don't compile on binary Linux distro. You just install and then the installer does its thing and the program is ready.
Provided the application that you want to use happens to be in your distribution's repository. Many distributions reject certain categories of application on principle. For example, Fedora rejects video game console emulators out of fear that Nintendo might cause Red Hat to spend money on a legal defense.
Re:Because Linux sucks. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have been a Linux user for many years with quite a few different distros and I have to agree with the other guy. I am running Xubuntu right now and nothing 'just works'. A lot of the programs I want to use don't have documentation. Sometimes you have to read the source code even to know what the program is for. In general Linux program documentation is just utter rubbish compared to most Windows programs. They almost always assume that you have the technical expertise of someone who writes compilers for a living.
Very few program installers bother to add menu or desktop launcher entries and it is by no means easy to do that manually. Many programs are from somewhat to very out of date if you try to just do an 'apt install x' and Ubuntu flavours have one of the best software repositories in the Linux world. Really only Arch Linux can compete. So you have to google the program and hope they have a ppa and many don't and even when they do they are sometimes out of date and when you try to install an out of date ppa it screws up the entire software installation system until you fix the problem which is by no means easy or straightforward.
Installing programs on Linux is often like wrestling an alligator naked. It's almost always a massive massive struggle and yes it isn't that unusual for you to be expected to compile from source and without any instructions on how to do so. Sometimes you get lucky and there is a Snap or Appimage or Flatpack which makes the installation more like Windows, sort of automagical when it works which it doesn't always. Frequently such packages cause problems when you actually try to run the program because the program was not originally written with that sort of installation in mind or because the installer hasn't been updated for 3 years.
Overall I like Linux better than Windows, but that is only because Windows sucks so very very badly because Microsoft is one of the worst software companies on the planet. But Windows at least has consistent single click installs that really do almost always just work and when someone bothers to write a Windows program they nearly always at least tell you what the program is supposed to do and very very often even tell you how to install and run it. I hate to say this but I think at least some people who love Linux love it because it is so difficult to use. I think it's kind of an ego thing. Like they want to feel superior to the retardo Window users who would not have a chance in hell of running even the easiest 'desktop' Linux distro. It makes some people feel so very elite, but that's not what an operating system is for.
After the Windows 10 OS-as-Adware debacle I decided to finally make a serious effort at doing everything except gaming in Linux, but the people who write Linux software don't make that easy. So many of them are like, "Uh yeah I wrote this free program (it's free so stfu and don't complain!), but I don't give even the slightest fuck if even a single person besides myself ever uses it. Really. I. Don't. Care! So go read my uncommented source code with 100 different source files if you want to know how to use it or how to install it (compile from source baby!) or even what it is actually for. If you want to know why I wrote it you can go fuck yourself. No really. Go buy commercial software if you don't like it. Oh there is almost never any commercial software for Linux? Then go run Windows if you want documentation." That last bit is my point. Windows developers usually write docs or even manuals (Manuals OMG!).
I have spent weeks trying to figure out how to compile from source a linux web server I really would like to use, but I can't for the life of me figure it out. It is a massive puzzle or mystery. And no there isn't a binary available. So I had to just give up. There is however a Windows version available and I am pretty sure installing *that* version of the server would be a piece of cake. I have a Linux server though so that doesn't help me. It is open source and I have the source code so I could presum
Re:Because Linux sucks. (Score:4, Insightful)
anyone with an IQ of 120 or less is going to have very serious problems installing and using it and that means most of our species.
I've got a USB stick in a drawer with a Kubuntu install on it. Plug it in, boot up, click "install", and it does it in about 10 minutes. If that's scary, you can click the other tile and just run it off the USB stick. It's like 85% as good as installing it.
Making that bootable stick is the hardest part. You have to download a program from the internet, insert a USB stick, and run the installer.
Most of our species aren't doing more on any device than what you listed. And anyone doing more than that is going to have to learn something, even on Windows.
Re:Because Linux sucks. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's like 85% as good as installing it.
You see it's crap like that that gives Linux a bad name. No it's not 85% as good. It's barely 20% as good. It gives you a nice OS wonderfully out of date with a complicated system to store resident files while at the same time being painfully slow.
Running Linux from a USB stick has it's place but claiming it's 85% of anything even remotely resembling a desktop workspace just serves to reinforce the idea that opensource zealots are just pushing an agenda rather than actually presenting a serious product.
Re:Because Linux sucks. (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you are me. You buy a modern XPS, the same one that dell sells with linux. Only you buy it with windows because it was cheaper (wtf why was it cheaper?). Then you download the latest ubuntu and put it on a usb stick. It fails to launch, so you google and find out you need to add kernel options in order for the install to work.
So you do that and now you can get it to launch, but it's so slow it's almost unusable. You struggle through that and finally get your install. Then you realize that even though you have 16GB of ram, for some reason it only made a 1gb swap partition and now you can't just close the notebook lid and come back to it later, because what you come back to is a kernel panic.
So now you start over and do a custom format to get the right sized swap partition. This time everything works but 3-4 times you get a kernel panic on resume and you don't know why. More research determines it's because your notebook has a nvidia/intel hybrid graphics and even though nvidia is disabled it's still loading a kernel mod that is causing this instability. So now you are in the terminal and you need to add kernel options that you worked for others until you find the one that works for you.
Now you finally have a working notebook and you think, "This is totally ready for my mom to use". I'll give her the ubuntu install media.
Re: (Score:3)
Whatever the reason, relying on "it is less targeted" as your security is absolutely insane.
The real reasons are:
- People have Windows.
- People know Windows.
- Programs they buy/download work on Windows.
- Programs they use in work also work on Windows.
That's it.
There's literally nothing stopping someone nowadays selling Windows apps that are literally just Linux VMs running inside a hypervisor that happens to be on Windows. True cross-platform capability.
The reason I don't run Linux on my main machine? It
Re: (Score:3)
I wish I could buy a new laptop or desktop computer off the shelf at Staples or Costco and bring it home and have it boot up into some version of Linux instead of MS Windows.
Then buy your laptop somewhere other than Staples or Costco. Buy one at System76 or ThinkPenguin. Tell both of them that they lost your business because they offered nothing but Windows.