Microsoft Works To Port Ubuntu To Windows ARM (neowin.net) 107
Billly Gates shares a report: It was this time last year that Microsoft announced that it was bringing Ubuntu to the Windows Store (now the Microsoft Store), along with other Linux distributions. If you check out the app in the Store now though, you'll find that it only works on x64 devices, meaning that you can't run it on any of the new Windows 10 on ARM PCs. That's all about to change though. In a session at Microsoft's Build 2018 developer conference today called Windows 10 on ARM for Developers, the company showed off Ubuntu running on an ARM PC, with the app coming from the Microsoft Store. It will finally support ARM64 PCs, although x86 devices are still out of luck.
Re: ARM PC's? (Score:2)
Microsoft isn't shipping any on their own hardware. Asus & HP are releasing some of these "Always Connected PCs."
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Also, MS is currently downplaying the significance of the ARM systems:
https://www.windowscentral.com... [windowscentral.com]
This together with Qualcomm having to tighten it's belt all around, I wouldn't expect them to last long as a product line... again... (See Surface RT)
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Congress or the military I'd reckon.
Money, it's a gas (Score:2)
That's exactly what Microsoft does. They have a guaranteed revenue stream, and they've been trying to convert that into dominant positions in various other related industries. They've had success with the console market after burning an insane amount of money, they've failed repeatedly in the phone market after burning even more money, and it seems like they're achieving a pretty comfortable position in the tablet market. Microsoft can certainly afford to hire all of the talent that they want, and they actu
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>> How about working on enabling 64-bit Windows apps to run on ARM?
Why would you ever do that? Recompile your programs to run natively.
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How about working on enabling 64-bit Windows apps to run on ARM?
64-bit ARM programs do run. 64-bit x86 programs do not
Is it difficult?
Yes, getting an x86-64 emulator working well enough that you can enable it for end users and expect stuff to work out of the box turns out to be a nontrivial problem.
They could hire the top 1000 programmers in the world
I very much doubt that there are 1,000 programmers with experience working on high performance binary translation (I'd actually be quite surprised if there are 100). If they don't have this expertise, then you need to train them. That takes time to do and it takes developer time away from
Re:ARM64 (Score:5, Insightful)
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It wouldn't be that difficult, but Microsoft probably doesn't feel that it's important. Running applications under emulation is always going to be slower than running native ones. 64-bit Windows applications are mostly ones that are still under active development, so it's not that difficult for the developers to do native ARM builds. Aside from device drivers, if the code is written correctly it shouldn't require much more than just building it for a different architecture.
What the 32-bit emulation is reall
Re: Windows on Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Because as someone who has used nothing but floss software since 2004, my girlfriend is angry at me because I am ethically opposed to installing excell while she thinks libre Office is the biggest pile of crap she has ever seen and thinks it's still lacking functionality from 1993. You can change the libre Office/ms Office juxtaposition for pretty much any software comparison probably. I know when I began I was frustrated at the lack of decent CAD tools. 14 years later the offerings have not improved in the slightest degree. When you are prepared to tinker floss is great. Even fun. For most it's a stinking steaming pile of half assed crap. Crap I love using.
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It's *not* Linux! (Score:2, Informative)
It's not "running Linux" by definition, because Linux is only a kernel and it is completely absent. Instead, MS is providing an emulation of the Linux syscall interface enabling unaltered Linux applications to run.
(That said, this will probably prove to be the simplest way of running "Linux" on an ARM laptop, thanks to the joys of ARM SoC vendors not providing sane drivers..)
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... providing an emulation of the Linux syscall interface enabling unaltered Linux applications to run.
Something FreeBSD has been doing for the better part of 20 years. It's not rocket surgery.
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As I recall, SCO did something similar as well (before they turned evil). It was used as evidence in part of the trial.
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As I recall, SCO did something similar as well (before they turned evil). It was used as evidence in part of the trial.
It was called iBCS [wikipedia.org]. A Linux version came into being later, which begat or was renamed (don't know) the Linux ABI Project [sourceforge.net].
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Found the article on Groklaw. What I was thinking of was the SCO Linux Kernel Personality.
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20090304032134127 [groklaw.net]
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FreeBSD support is partial, because it is rocket surgery
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no, NetBSD has partial support for Linux API too.
It's hard...in fact impossible for 100% support
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That's rocket surgery : https://www.youtube.com/result... [youtube.com]
Re: It's *not* Linux! (Score:2)
It looks like Linux, smells like Linux, tastes like Linux... better not step in it!
Re: It's *not* Linux! (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft has an incentive to make this happen in the future so that people in crisis mode will throw up their hands and just switch to Microsoft-Linux, and then maybe get rid of Linux altogether.
Microsoft tried to do the same with Java. Introduce sweet addictive delicious Microsoft-only APIs into Java, hoping lazy developers wouldn't notice that these APIs are only on Microsoft's Java. This was in directly violation of the black-letter language of the written contract. Sun sued. Won $1.2 Billion. Microsoft abandoned Java and created
Too bad nobody will ensure the "purity" of Linux. And who says Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is dead?
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Not likely, as the whole point of this work is to enable Windows developers to use some of their favorite native Linux-based tools. It would completely ruin the point if they introduced some artificial incompatibility. Remember, Microsoft is also hosting native Linux in Azure, right alongside their own Windows Server OS. This means they have, in fact, every reason to ensure these systems remain as compatible as possible with native Linux.
Microsoft is not motivated by ideology, but by money. Linux used t
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Office has always been Microsoft's golden cash cow. Windows was never a big money maker for Microsoft, but it was the gateway drug to Office
Look at the Microsoft financials from the late '90s. They were around 45% Windows, 45% Office, and 10% everything else. The ones from the last few years are very different.
Re: It's *not* Linux! (Score:4, Informative)
Nobody will ensure the "purity" of Linux, because that's what the GPL does. I'm not sure what specific FUD you're trying to imply with the EEE remarks, but the evidence for chicanery is pretty weak, and you're sort of pointing out that they aren't that effective at it.
And not to defend Microsoft, but .NET is better than Java in most respects, and Java's popularity has been propped up by Android. I'm not sure where .NET is headed, but Kotlin is likely to start cutting into Java on mobile in a big way.
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And no one but aspies actually care.
who's still selling x86 hardware? (Score:3)
...and why would you buy an x86 desktop or laptop to run Linux under Windows Subsystem for Linux? If you're talking about low power embedded hardware then that's got to be a VERY niche use case.
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Why the fuck didn't you return it as defective?
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I have an ASUS EEEbook X205ta that has the same.
I'm running 64-bit XUbuntu on it.
I only needed a 32-bit UEFI loader for grub on it to make it work.
Unfortunately, the Linux kernel still has trouble with the power saving modes of the Baytrail chipset, but some workarounds have been made.
Here [archlinux.org] and here [ubuntuforums.org] are links with helpful information.
It's like the year 2001 again (Score:5, Insightful)
Embrace, extend, and extinguish [wikipedia.org] -- United States v. Microsoft Corp., 2001
Microsoft's long history makes them untrustworthy. I think we should be very skeptical of relying on any technology out of Redmond, and view it as a potential trap.
It seems obvious that MS would like every Linux computer to have a copy of Windows installed. And for people to run their favorite Linux application along side Office 365 or whatever. I can't really blame them, it's a reasonable business strategy. But once MS has power over a market they aren't likely to act in their customer's best interests. Ultimately us consumers need to be cautious of what bargains we strike.
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Embrace, extend, and extinguish [wikipedia.org] -- United States v. Microsoft Corp., 2001
EEE only works if you dominate a market. Linux dominates on servers and portable devices (Android is Linux). Microsoft has no chance of executing an EEE strategy against Linux. To the contrary, WSL is Microsoft's way of conceding defeat in those markets, and accepting that it has to accommodate Linux on the desktop to avoid slipping even more.
Re:It's like the year 2001 again (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft dominates the desktop and laptop market
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The fact there are credible alternatives makes it very hard for EEE to work. Personally I think MS is trying hard to turn over a new leaf post-Ballmer, though there have been some severe missteps like the XBox One DRM saga whe
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Microsoft dominates the desktop and laptop market
A market with no Linux marketshare so what's your point?
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actually it's 3.5 percent, Mac 8.7 percent
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So like I said, no marketshare.
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tens millions of machines, you're wrong
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tens millions of machines, you're wrong
10s of millions of machines is effectively zero marketshare in desktop computing.
Perspective: You're in desperate need of some. When you get some we can work on your understanding of business strategy.
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er no, that was over ten percent in total. that is not insignificant, either as percentage or whole
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er no, that was over ten percent in total.
Wow. So either you suck at Math or have no idea what the PC market actually looks like.
10% Linux Desktop market share.... Oooooh you're just trying a standup routine on me. meh. 2/5 needs work, the joke isn't very funny.
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no linux desktop market share was 3%, try to pay attention. the 10% was non-windows, linux+mac.
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no linux desktop market share was 3%, try to pay attention. the 10% was non-windows, linux+mac.
Your grasp of staying on point and not flipping on numbers is amazing. Have you considered a career in politics? God knows business is nothing for you.
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Linux dominates on servers and portable devices (Android is Linux).
Are laptop computers "portable devices" by your definition? If not, how meaningfully not? Answering that question might help you understand what Microsoft is targeting with Windows on ARM.
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I'd be concerned by Google. They're the "don't be evil" guys and I'm typing this on a Google branded device but food for thought.
Almost every consumer Linux device includes Google Play, first on Android and now Chrome OS.
Chrome OS now running desktop Linux apps in a container. So your choices for a 'Linux' laptop are bare metal, a surface pro WSL or a pixel book.
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I'd be concerned by Google.
I think that's a false dilemma as Google doing bad thing and Microsoft doing bad things are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, I'd recommend being skeptical of the motives of any business. Things can be great as long the business and customers have complementary desires and act in mutual benefit. Things go awry when there is a power imbalance in a relationship, especially if it is possible to act for a short term gain or for an increase in power.
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A "trap"? In what sense? Are you describing a movie, perhaps?
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Embrace, extend, and extinguish
Yes it would look like that if you know nothing about EEE, how it works, or the market forces that drove MS to do it in the first place.
I've said it many times before but I'll give you the summary version here:
a) To do EEE you need to have market dominance. All MS can do with their current Linux market share is embrace, nothing more.
b) You want to do EEE to drive out competitors. But why would MS do that? The don't compete with Linux in any market Linux users care about.
c) To do EEE you need a leadership te
MS Works? (Score:3, Funny)
Who's using Microsoft Works to port an operating system? It could barely do simple word processing! Maybe one of the bajillion wizards or templates is for porting.
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Did Dane Cook write that “joke” for you?
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I agree, english-style titles are annoying and make comprehension harder than it should be.
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What language would you prefer they be written in?
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C or assembly.
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".... gave me aids"
-- RMS
Just use linux (Score:2, Insightful)
I realize some of you have not yet switched to linux. I believe that the time is now, the microsoft and apple operating systems are simply unfit for most actual use cases due to spying, corporate shenannigans and general untrustworthyness.
Linux will not spy on you, has a low overhead, an extremely high uptime, better security, and tends to keep their applications small and useful.
The benefits stretch far into the horizon beyond the points I have brought up. It really is time to just get rid of the spyware
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I agree with your sentiment 100%. Very well spoken. Just wanted to point out that OSX isn't based on the Linux kernel (with an 'e', not an 'a'), it's based on FreeBSD.
Weird (Score:2)
why? (Score:2)
What's M$ business model to spent shareholders money on this?
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Microsoft makes money from people running Windows. In license fees for Windows, and in license fees for Windows applications (which are built by developers running Windows). If people are running Ubuntu, they aren't running Windows, and not making money for Microsoft.
Further, there's "secure" boot to consider. Right now, it is optional. But if users can run Linux applications under Windows, then why do they need to run Linux kernel natively? And if they don't need to run the Linux kernel, then there's
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>> I have the Ubuntu logo tattooed on my arm.
Perhaps you should have your tatoo removed or modified before Ubuntu is synonym of Bluescreen
So.... Microsoft Surface 1 finally becomes useful? (Score:1)
How about Windows running on Linux instead? (Score:5, Insightful)