Microsoft Built Its Own Custom Linux Kernel For Its New IoT Service (techcrunch.com) 199
At a small press event in San Francisco, Microsoft today announced the launch of a secure end-to-end IoT product that focuses on microcontroller-based devices -- the kind of devices that use tiny and relatively low-powered microcontrollers (MCUs) for basic control or connectivity features. TechCrunch reports: At the core of Azure Sphere is a new class of certified MCUs. As Microsoft president and chief legal officer Brad Smith stressed in today's announcement, Microsoft will license these new Azure Sphere chips for free, in hopes to jump-start the Azure Sphere ecosystem. Because it's hard to secure a device you can't update or get telemetry from, it's no surprise that these devices will feature built-in connectivity. And with that connectivity, these devices can also connect to the Azure Sphere Security Service in the cloud. For the first time ever, Microsoft is launching a custom Linux kernel and distribution: the Azure Sphere OS. It's an update to the kind of real-time operating systems that today's MCUs often use.
Why use Linux? "With Azure Sphere, Microsoft is addressing an entirely new class of IoT devices, the MCU," Rob Lefferts, Microsoft's partner director for Windows enterprise and security told me at the event. "Windows IoT runs on microprocessor units (MPUs) which have at least 100x the power of the MCU. The Microsoft-secured Linux kernel used in the Azure Sphere IoT OS is shared under an OSS license so that silicon partners can rapidly enable new silicon innovations." And those partners are also very comfortable with taking an open-source release and integrating that with their products. To get the process started, MediaTek is producing the first set of these new MCUs. These are low-powered, single-core ARM-A7 systems that run at 500MHz and include WiFi connectivity as well as a number of other I/O options.
Why use Linux? "With Azure Sphere, Microsoft is addressing an entirely new class of IoT devices, the MCU," Rob Lefferts, Microsoft's partner director for Windows enterprise and security told me at the event. "Windows IoT runs on microprocessor units (MPUs) which have at least 100x the power of the MCU. The Microsoft-secured Linux kernel used in the Azure Sphere IoT OS is shared under an OSS license so that silicon partners can rapidly enable new silicon innovations." And those partners are also very comfortable with taking an open-source release and integrating that with their products. To get the process started, MediaTek is producing the first set of these new MCUs. These are low-powered, single-core ARM-A7 systems that run at 500MHz and include WiFi connectivity as well as a number of other I/O options.
Secure? LOLOL! (Score:4, Insightful)
Microcontrollers on the Internet, talking to your network via someone else's (Microsoft's) computer. Secure? Laughable.
The only way I'd use most "IoT" devices is if they were able to talk directly to my devices, ideally using IPv6 and strong encryption. Let's roll out IPv6, have enough addresses for every device on Earth and maybe on the Moon too, and cut out the need for "cloud" middlemen spying on everything.
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I recall towards the end of the days when directv CAMs were easy to hack to get free TV, some guy in a major forum of the time (don't recall which one) was expressing anger at directv so much that he said he would never pay for directv, and then later stressed that he wouldn't even take it if it was free. The irony wasn't lost that the mere fact that he was there to begin with was to get directv's service for free.
Re: Secure? LOLOL! (Score:2)
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Nobody who knows anything about security would allow anything like this near his network. Let alone spend money on it.
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No, you're wrong.
In real life, encryption software is extremely complex, and flaws in complex shipped software are found regularly. Your quote is irrelevant, because error-free software of any meaningful complexity does not exist, and so if you ship software that you can't update, a flaw in it will be found eventually, and whatever encryption it contains will be broken.
Re: Secure? LOLOL! (Score:2)
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I was wondering whether or not you'd be interested in applying for a job here? All of the developers we have, and they number in the hundreds, appear unable to write code without also introducing bugs, and that's despite the fact that we review alot of it, and have unit and automated tests.
We've spent alot of time trying to understand exactly why human beings, when tasked with writing a series of instructions for unthinking machines, appear incapable of doing so without doing so wrongly. Worse, they don't a
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Of course we don't have a bug tracker, we just write them down on this piece of paper I have here.
And it has an ever increasing in the bug count. That's exactly why I don't want to work there.
Look, here is a procedure for you to get things cleaned up. You can choose to ignore it but that is your choice. Three steps:
1) Allocate time to fix new bugs as soon as they are reported.
2) Over time, empty the bug tracker until the bug count hits zero.
3) The focus on bugs will improve your skill and programming speed, bugs will be rarer and rarer.
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Yet another 3rd party half assed fork attempt (Score:2, Interesting)
So Microsoft released a custom kernel because the kernel maintainers wouldn't accept a second rate, poorly written patch set?
How will they track upstream changes?
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Exactly. Which part of embrace, extend, exclamation point are they on? So when does the blamestorming begin? Places, everyone!
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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win
You are there, at the highlighted part.
Re: Yet another 3rd party half assed fork attempt (Score:2, Informative)
It is not forked from kernel repro. Just a bunch of patches.
Main kernel is clearly 3.10 WTF!
Opened one patch. Has no clear description in parhes, just basic header is there. Patch has 10000 insertions, clearly unmaintainable or a patch from a squashed internal tree. Needs to be split.
Didn't look into code, these problems made me disinterested.
Opened
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It's a github repo filled with patches, not branches.
So yes, an unmaintainable SET of read-only, poorly conceived forks. If they were useful, well written, and followed contribution guidelines they could have easily been integrated into upstream. But they're not.
Please tell me how on earth you or anyone else is going to be able to keep that up to date, let alone contribute?
Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:5, Insightful)
"Microsoft-secured Linux kernel."
I don't have the space to list all the things wrong with that phrase.
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I guess MS has created a bubble of true in the company who have no self-awareness or knowledge of the world outside its borders.
There's a surprisingly large population of programmers who use .NET, carried Windows Phones, built web applications in Silverlight, and consider themselves 'aware' because they don't like IE. These people actually do live in a bubble, and like the integratedness of the Microsoft ecosystem, and can't see a world outside of it.
Re:Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:5, Interesting)
Or the bubble they live in is in the office where the boss loves Active Directory and win32 software and need something that talks and integrates well with their ecosystem.
You know not everyone is blessed to be a bearded hipster making $180,000 a year in Silicon Valley and working from a coffee shop all day while working in their hip node.js frameworks talking to the NOSQL database for a company that doesn't make any money.
In my world you support what the employers tells you to support or you're fired and replaced with someone who will. That is a fact.
These days I would choose .NET over Java if I had to choose anyway as Oracle is more evil and proprietary than MS is ... if those were my two options.
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Or the bubble they live in is in the office where the boss loves Active Directory and win32 software and need something that talks and integrates well with their ecosystem.
If they actually chose the right product for the job, then they are not in a bubble. There are some people like that.
You know not everyone is blessed to be a bearded hipster making $180,000 a year in Silicon Valley and working from a coffee shop all day while working in their hip node.js frameworks talking to the NOSQL database for a company that doesn't make any money.
Heh, sounds like I hit a nerve. You didn't happen to own a Windows Phone, did you?
Re:Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:4, Insightful)
Sigh. Yes a Nokia 820.
Doing what I can being a SME on Office 365 and SCCM now to earn a living being envious I didn't stick with programming and Linux like I once was this past decade and being bitter about those who are luckier indeed! I think i am a little old now to start over and learn node.js and get a job at a .com.
Re:Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:4, Interesting)
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Soon, Mono will have a WebAssembly back end, but for the moment, we're a bit far from that since WebAssembly doesn't really do garbage collection... yet.
It also doesn't have access to the DOM. .NET is so far superior to Javascript for writing web apps (as are many other options) that when it becomes an option, node will be gone with PERL.
Should I mention here that I voluntarily use C# and the .NET eco system
That's not really helpful, everyone in a bubble is there voluntarily....otherwise it would be more apt to use jail as a metaphor.
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It also doesn't have access to the DOM.
False. There isn't an easy-to-use set of built-in bridges, but emscripten can help you with that. Or you can roll your own. I did, it's not hard once you understand what WebAssembly is.
This.. indicates a fundamental lack of understanding of the topic at hand.
You're mixing up your front-end and back-ends.
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False. There isn't an easy-to-use set of built-in bridges, but emscripten can help you with that. Or you can roll your own. I did, it's not hard once you understand what WebAssembly is.
That's good to know.
You're mixing up your front-end and back-ends.
No, you're a moron. To be more precise and less inflammatory, you misunderstood my argument, mainly because I didn't spell it out explicitly. Here you go:
1) Why do people use Javascript on the backend? Because it is easy for people who only know Javascript to use. It's not because Javascript is a good language. There is some synergy gained by using the same language on the frontend and backend.
2) When there are better options in the front end, then people will start using those, inste
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It also doesn't have access to the DOM. .NET is so far superior to Javascript for writing web apps (as are many other options) that when it becomes an option, node will be gone with PERL.
I think it has less to do with me being a moron and more to do with your poor grasp of the language we're conversing in.
Read that sentence until you understand.
Re: Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:5, Funny)
that is the future
For the next how many weeks?
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Se: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
There are many implementations including Oracles that are based on the OpenJDK.
Se https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Fuck em. After the shit they pulled with Android and now any reference clean design is copyrightable even if it doesn't contain a single string of code from the original means Microsoft can sue the Wine Project. Bell Labs and can sue Gnu for gcc, etc.
This is very dangerous and if MS still had balmer you bet they would be suing Wine and ReactOS out of existence.
Oracle is far worse after this. OpenJDK can be revoked anytime now since Oracle claims an open clean room implementation is owned if it is based off
Re:Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:5, Interesting)
I honestly have no problems with other platforms... except maybe Java... and that's because I simply feel completely disconnected from the platform when I'm using Java. I spent 30 more wasted minutes of my life yesterday trying to make WebStart... well web start. But it seems that Oracle seems to think making WebStart work in Chrome is a waste of time.
I have chosen C# and
I also use
I owned a Windows Phone for a while. It was pretty ok. I think it was extremely well made... with the exception of Microsoft making the stupid ass mistake of trying to force
I never considered Silverlight an option for anything. I did however write the original port of Flash to Qt for the Qt Embedded platform on Linux. I never liked Flash either. I would rather just extend the web standards to support the features I was missing. I also don't like the video tag. With WebAssembly and WebGL, I can't imagine why any company would ever choose to try and standardize a codec when they could have supported a TPM for web kind of thing and simply supply their own. I'm pretty sure Netflix, HBO, YouTube and others will lose hundreds of millions a year by using Flash or the HTML5 video.
The only problem I could ever see to
I'm heading to Microsoft Build next month because I feel that
Oh.. my old bubble was the Qt bubble.
I guess you're in the Python bubble?
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I wish there was a good cross platform GUI framework for .NET. Like WPF but works well on multiple platforms.
Can't see it happening though, because every new GUI is obsessed with being usable on both desktop and touch interfaces and so ends up being shit.
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I'm going to investigate that, thanks.
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I hadn't really considered Lua as a suitable compilation target as again, it lacks the underlying platform. but now that you mention it, it could be interesting to look into.
Thanks for bringing me down this track of thinking.
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Either way, I'm guess you make a great party guest. I'm generally an asshole, b
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Heretic.
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I use .NET whenever I am able to, used to carry a Windows Mobile phone between 2003 and 2010 (not Windows Phone, though) and I actually develop for Linux for living.
I am perfectly able to see the world outside of the bubble, I just don't like what I see.
Re: Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:2)
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Nope, originally native C with some Lua scripts, rewritten in mostly C++11 some time ago. There is no room on the target hardware for Mono.
Re: Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:2)
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It is easier to use than the STL, C# has far more syntactic sugar than C++ and the VS debugger is very nice.
Back in the day when the application was written in C, I often used to prototype stuff in C#, debug it there and then manually translate it to C. It was not as efficient as developing directly in C, but it usually worked better afterwards and was - surprisingly - more readable (but more verbose) than the code developed directly in C.
I am a mediocre programmer hence I prefer to use tools that make my l
Re: Microsoft-secured Linux kernel (Score:2)
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Well, truth be told, Delphi will always be my favourite.
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Delphi was objectively the best product Borland ever made. I made the switch to C# simply because Anders Hejlberg was involved. Was not disappointed.
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The Sopris whitepaper mentions "renewable security" running some sort of secure fortress to prevent attacks such as Broadcom wifi from compromising the system as a whole.
Are Mediatek and MS willing to publish the source to this inner firmware on github, along with flashing instructions? I wouldn't think so. So put on your tin-foil hat, remember the Intel management engine Minix scandal and be very afraid!
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They didn't have to screw the kernel, their waagent is a hideous piece of crap with can do that in userspace. When I glanced through it a while back it was doing VERY stupid things like creating a swap file with perm mode 666. Yes. I think this was one of the commits https://github.com/Azure/WALin... [github.com] - if not look through the history. How stuff like that gets out the door I have no idea. What worries me is that within MS they have project ideas, but not the Unix Sysadmin skills to know what they're doing is
How long will the battery last. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How long will the battery last. (Score:4, Insightful)
https://www.jeffgeerling.com/b... [jeffgeerling.com]
If you really need lowest power consumption, then something like freeRTOS makes a lot of sense. So yeah, it will not last for days on a coin-cell battery. But for applications where a power is not a constraint (inside an appliance, a wall wart, a solar cell, or some other kind of powered box) with a 5$ part you can run normal linux software on it, and it consumes about 200ma while tranceiving wifi. If this thing is running @ 500MHz, it could be only 50 ma.
tradeoff is relatively normal software environment in linux vs. hyper specialized rare coders and 1% of the application ecosystems available for RTOS.
Re:How long will the battery last. (Score:4, Insightful)
What battery?
The promotional video shows a smart fridge.
Re:How long will the battery last. (Score:5, Insightful)
but real IoT devices live on a dirt cheap processor in a few kbytes, not Mbytes or GBytes and last for a year on a single battery.
Not if they are wifi-connected. That sucks power. Also, running a full TCP/IP stack with all the bells and whistles isn't going to work very well on a few kB. Sure, you can cram something in there that will work to some degree, but how is it going to withstand a well engineered attack for instance ?
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How well is any piece of home hardware sitting on your local network going to withstand a "well-engineered attack".
If it runs the same linux kernel and internet services that people run on their public network, it's going to be comparatively hard to attack (DoS attacks excluded, of course).
A networked home device does not need to withstand anything of that sort
That depends on how it is employed. Some IoT devices run as WiFi AP, for instance. Others may have open ports to the outside world. Or maybe they are used on a company network, and you don't want your employees to have any kind of unauthorized access.
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If it runs the same linux kernel and internet services that people run on their public network, it's going to be comparatively hard to attack (DoS attacks excluded, of course).
A bold claim. Excluding DoS seems like a bit of a baseless get-out clause. Maybe it'll be discovered that by mounting a DoS attack, differences in timing of responses will reveal what's running on the machine, and by crafting requests to other services at the same time, educated guesses as to the contents of secret key might be able to reduce the search space sufficiently to break into your network.
Or maybe it'll just turn out to be some buffer overflow bug in some crappy piece of code written in the world'
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For most sensors it makes more sense to use a low power radio network such a LoRa, rather than WiFi. Better ranger, lower power.
A LoRa window sensor could easily run off a small solar cell, with super capacitor or small lithium cell for storage. One transmission every 15 minutes +/- 1 minute at random to avoid collisions, which allows the receiver to notice when the sensor has failed. One extra transmission when the window is opened or closed.
Doesn't even need RX capability.
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Yes, if all you need is a simple and slow sensor, then there are low-power options available. This device is targeted for more higher-end IoT applications.
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I have about 20 nodes on my _LAN_ of things
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Seriously, an A7 and Linux for an IoT thermostat or glass break sensor? Linux is wonderful and all for servers and even little routers, but real IoT devices live on a dirt cheap processor in a few kbytes, not Mbytes or GBytes and last for a year on a single battery. FreeRTOS [freertos.org] that just received support from Amazon is a likely solution for IoT. A survey by EE Times [eet.com] suggests that new embedded projects are adopting FreeRTOS and a slightly higher rate for new products than even Linux (page 63) while embedded linux still has a small lead for existing projects. I'll bet this pig ships will mono and C# built into it and that is why they pushing linux.
FreeRTOS's best feature is the name. It's a great name that almost sells itself. Once you get past the name things go downhill. Micrium is probably the best documented since it has a nice big book for just about every flavor of microcontroller under the sun. From what I understand if you use a Silicon Labs MCU it's free too.
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Why not one for the BSDs? (Score:2)
Is just a curiosity. No insinuation of any ulterior motives or evildoing whatsoever. Since BSD (and MIT and Apache) licenses are more Microsoft's cup of tea.
I get it that Linux has more driver support for hardware, but then again, this is Microsoft's semi-custom silicon, so they have a modicum of control over the hardware specs and therefore, the drivers.
Is something inherent in the Linux kernel (like the near-real-time patches)? Perhaps better support for containers? More familiarity with the code-base fro
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Azure already has FreeBSD. Infact, I used FreeBSD before I started using Linux on Hyper-V from my Windows 8.1 box due to the excellent guest tools donated by Microsoft from the Azure team. PfSense uses them too to set up my virtual routers in my hyper-V lab at home.
The reason they used Linux is because everyone else uses Linux. Linux is most understood by those who write such software so the knowledge base is strongest and familiarity.
Funny, this was the argument for Windows 20 years ago ironically. BSD nev
Mind-share and community, I'd bet (Score:2)
Linux is much, much more well-known than any of the BSDs. Each has their own *technical* merits, but from a *business* perspective, they probably want to sell something that many people will want. Far more people have a favorable view of Linux than the total number of people who have *heard* of the BSDs.
BSOD, not BSDs (Score:2)
MS does BSODs, not BSDs
Microsoft's Position (Score:5, Informative)
"Linux is worse than cancer"
-- Steve Ballmer
Re:Microsoft's Position (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems that Microsoft has moved on since those days. It's a pity that so many on /. can't do the same and are fixated with how things were 20 years ago.
Re: Microsoft's Position (Score:3, Informative)
Except they haven't moved on. ExFAT etc. The new Windows Admin Centre 'web' interface only fully works with Edge. Etc. Same old.
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You mean like web standards? Where Edge continues to make strides and already ranks better than Safari?
So if Edge is standards-compliant, and they use Edge, why can't you use any other browser?
For Windows Admin Center? You can [microsoft.com]
Moved on (Score:2, Informative)
> It seems that Microsoft has moved on since those days.
It seems that their propaganda is working on you.
C'mon. Think. Think a bit harder. Microsoft's business model hinges on making their customers dependent. Free software, OTOH, thrives on making customers/users free.
This doesn't mix well.
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We haven't gotten past Developers developers developers developers! [youtube.com] either!
I don't see the problem.
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Linux has won! (Score:5, Insightful)
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So that was what Trump was talking about when he tweeted "Mission Accomplished".
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Silly Linux people, you don't need to boot a whole OS just to use Linux, see, it runs inside Windows 10 now!
Now they write their own kernel; is it proprietary, by the way? I think you're sticking your head in the sand and don't want to see what I'm seeing. Microsoft has made it very plain that they want to be the only OS on the planet, and history has shown us that they don't really care h
I'm confused. (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this the "Embrace" or "Extend" step in the sequence [wikipedia.org]?
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Is this the "Embrace" or "Extend" step in the sequence [wikipedia.org]?
It's a new step: Capitulate (sorry, can't think of a synonym that starts with 'e'). Microsoft spent many years and huge amounts of money trying to kill Linux, but failed because Linux doesn't have a single source, because Microsoft's old tactics can't beat "free", and because Microsoft just doesn't have the clout they used to, after they missed their chance to control first the web and then the mobile revolutions. They're recognizing that they're about to miss the IoT boat as well.
So, they've decided tha
Has MS ever heard of raspberry pi? (Score:3)
Maybe they're doing some extra power management?
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The articles link a whitepaper of 7 security features they wanted, on die. The idea is there's a hidden Cortex-M4F running firmware to control a regular Cortex-A7 with a couple of additional user-programmable Cortex-M4F thrown in.
It's all mumbo-jumbo to me but presumably an off the shelf rPI wouldn't support that *in silicon*, hence the custom design.
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include WiFi connectivity as well as a number of other I/O options." so... pretty much exactly the specs of the original raspberry pi.
Yes, pretty much exactly, except for the part where the raspberry pi has no WiFi (or even Ethernet)
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"the raspberry HAS wifi, and ethernet - and bluetooth too!"
Not native in the SoC, though. It uses an external SDIO/WiFi module and USB/Ethernet adapter.
Re: Has MS ever heard of raspberry pi? (Score:2)
Custom IoT kernel? Why? (Score:3)
The only reason I can think of to use your own kernel fork is because you can power optimize it.
For example, if you know your device only checks in every second and you only need .5 second resolution for your sensor then you can put your system to sleep and use an interrupt line attached to your sensor to wake everything up. Then you can run as much CPU as you need to fire up the radio, send the packet, and shut off.
At that point you can also make your system 'almost realtime' by using the transmission window to receive data/commands/etc.
Do you really need something running at 500 mhz? I mean damn, how much stuff you do expect to come off the wire?
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There is one poster up above who believes that MS has changed its stripes, but not the rest of us.
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Microsoft developers had so much fun implementing WSL.
Take it a step further and you have Linux Subsystem for Windows Subsystem for Linux (LSWSL), pronounced Lasso Weasel - the acronym is a palindrome. It basically amounts to Windows 10 running inside a bare metal Linux hyper-visor, with WSL running atop that.
Currently WSL operates by the Windows 10 (NT) kernel emulating Linux syscalls. Linux -> Win. This obviously creates complexity in the Windows environment, translating paradigms and so forth. So such
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My head just exploded.
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The only reason I can think of to use your own kernel fork is because you can power optimize it.
That's not a legitimate reason. If some architecture benefits from additional power optimizations, those ought to be contributed to the Linux kernel so that everyone can benefit from them.
GPL FTW. They'll have to distribute source, so everyone that really wants their extensions will be able to get them. Also, in the long run it's far cheaper and easier to upstream your Linux changes than to deal with revising them every time the upstream code changes. If Microsoft hasn't figured this out, they will.
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GPL FTW. They'll have to distribute source, so everyone that really wants their extensions will be able to get them. Also, in the long run it's far cheaper and easier to upstream your Linux changes than to deal with revising them every time the upstream code changes. If Microsoft hasn't figured this out, they will.
We'll see. If they don't make the patches of sufficient quality for inclusion, then either someone else has to do the work (at least that's possible!) or that just never happens.
If it doesn't happen, they'll have to port their patches to every new kernel release. That becomes a large burden. Most people decide it's easier to do whatever needs to be done to make the kernel maintainers happy so they can upstream.
Scorpion on the frog's back, crossing the river. (Score:3)
After kicking all of the other kids out of it's sandbox and not letting them play all the other kids got together and built their own sandbox. Now Microsoft want to play in their sandbox because all the other kids are having such a good time. I wonder how long it will take for Microsoft to kick all the other kids out of the sandbox this time?
And the morale to the story:
Halfway across the river the scorpion stung the frog and as they were drowning the frog said "Why???" to which the scorpion replied "It's in my nature".
2002 Business Case for Microsoft:Green envy &s (Score:4, Informative)
Now build a desktop & an internet browser for. (Score:2)
Now build a desktop & a browser for Windows IoT...and a native C# compiler (IDE)...and we will enjoy it on the RPi.
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Ah...no....now go wash your mouth out with soap.
Too bloated for MCU (Score:2)
"Windows IoT runs on microprocessor units (MPUs) which have at least 100x the power of the MCU.
Read: We're using Linux because even the lightest version of Windows if far too bloated to run on MCU devices.
ms and Linux (Score:2)
(By Eric Raymond, speaking of open source, and quoting Gandhi.)