.NET Core 1.0 Released, Now Officially Supported By Red Hat (arstechnica.com) 123
Microsoft on Monday announced the release of .NET Core, the open source .NET runtime platform. Finally! (It was first announced in 2014). The company also released ASP.NET Core 1.0, the open-source version of Microsoft's Web development stack. ArsTechnica reports:Microsoft picked an unusual venue to announce the release: the Red Hat Summit. One of the purposes of .NET Core was to make Linux and OS X into first-class supported platforms, with .NET developers able to reach Windows, OS X, Linux, and (with Xamarin) iOS and Android, too. At the summit today, Red Hat announced that this release would be actively supported by the company on Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
Re: First? (Score:3, Funny)
They want to integrate it into systemd, then the journey to the dark scheide will be COMPLEEATEE!!! Good, good, I can feel your anger.
Re: First? (Score:1)
Office for Mac has been around for ages and it is really good. Skype runs on numerous non-Windows platforms, too. What I'm curious about is what this means for Rust. Now we have C#, Go and Swift running on all of the major platforms. Does that leave any room for a language like Rust? I'm beginning to think that it doesn't.
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"Now we have C#, Go and Swift running on all of the major platforms."
I've read that there are ways to use Swift on Windows but it doesn't seem like a first class citizen.
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Office for Mac has been around for ages and it is really good.
No it isn't. For a trivial example, on every Mac application command-z is undo, command-shift-z is redo. Except Office, which uses command-Y for redo. Office is the only Mac application where the format dialogs are modal and need you to hit 'ok' before they apply the style. It violates the Mac HIGs in so many ways that it's painful to use (though SmartArt in PowerPoint is worth the pain).
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Praise the Greatest Christian (A Jew) Jesus.
Was Jesus a Christian? Did Jesus intend for his teachings to turn into a new religion instead of reforming Judaism? BTW, Jew could refer to a descendant of Judah (the son of Jacob / Israel) or someone who adheres to Judaism; thus it is not a contradiction that a Jew would be a Christian.
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And he still does to this day.
Telemetry for the masses, not for the classes! (Score:1)
https://github.com/dotnet/cli/pull/2145
'nuff said...
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Mono has too many problems. The one good thing about .net on Linux is that it might (*might*) encourage some cross-platform compatibility.
Re: Telemetry for the masses, not for the classes! (Score:1)
It is like the new CEO tries to change things in Microsoft and Steve Ballmer hacks into the code with his leftover admin account in last minute to add things like telemetry.
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Discussion thread about this: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/... [github.com]
Blog post detailing the why, how, and what: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.c... [microsoft.com]
The telemetry is only in the tools and does not affect your app.
The data collected is anonymous in nature and will be published in an aggregated form
You can opt-out of the telemetry feature by setting an environment variable DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT (e.g. export on OS X/Linux, set on Windows) to true (e.g. “true”, 1). Doing this will stop the collection process from running.
The feature collects the following pieces of data:
Re: Minecraft implications? (Score:1)
How come Java have anything to do with 4GB memory limit while it runs on monster mainframes? Do they use 32bit Java? It must be on purpose than.
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Re:new MS? nothings changed. (Score:5, Informative)
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He's making shit up. Also, if he was in the industry before Microsoft existed, then he's getting on near retirement age, and has checked out of industry innovation, anyway.
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Of course, because "old people" can't possibly comprehend anything new or innovative.
I'm not sure what's worse... that you might have made a remark like that to troll, or if you actually sincerely feel that way.
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Context. He isn't just "old people," he's making a comment about how a pervasive new technology is nowhere on his radar, and is therefore worthless. And yes, such a grognard cannot comprehend anything new or innovative. The smartest devs I know are 20+ years older than I am. This guy is not one of them.
Re:new MS? nothings changed. (Score:4, Informative)
What tech firms have over 100k+ employees that you worked for from startup?
Reading comprehension 101:
Restatement: They have worked for 12+ companies ranging from startups to 100K+ employee tech firms.
I have as well, multiple startups, several small to mid sized firms, and several 100K firms, although not solely focused on tech in my case. I can state that several .NET firms switched to Java. I have yet to see one switch to .NET, although I did see one firm with .NET employees trying to code in Java that didn't go as well as it might have, but they persevered, although they did have some employee turnover. And I have coded in both .NET and Java. Java is way easier to get a job in.
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If you're a glutton for punishment. Java isn't that bad, but it's inferior in just about every way _other_ than cross platform interoperability to .NET/C#. The tooling, the framework, the platform, the community but _especially_ the language itself.
Productivity, reliability, scalability - none of these are valid reasons to go from .NET to Java.
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The reason the folks switched from .NET were precisely productivity, reliability, scalability, and we can add ongoing maintenance costs
This is pure nonsense. I did Java for the Enterprise from 1997 through 2006. I worked for one of the first companies in the world that had significant product for the Telecom world written in Java. Back then we could not inform our customers it was Java since Java was perceived as too slow for our market segment. A colleague of mine wrote an SNMP stack at the time that was at least two orders of magnitude faster than any other stack out there. I struggled with CORBA when the Iona C++ ORB would not talk to t
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The reason the folks switched from .NET were precisely productivity, reliability, scalability, and we can add ongoing maintenance costs
This is pure nonsense. I did Java for the Enterprise from 1997 through 2006. I worked for one of the first companies in the world that had significant product for the Telecom world written in Java. Back then we could not inform our customers it was Java since Java was perceived as too slow for our market segment. A colleague of mine wrote an SNMP stack at the time that was at least two orders of magnitude faster than any other stack out there. I struggled with CORBA when the Iona C++ ORB would not talk to the Iona Java ORB.
Since 2008 I've been doing about 20% Java, 60% C#/.Net and the rest a combination of Ruby, C and some Scala. C# blows Java out of the water in every single way. Tooling is heads and shoulders above what Java developers have wet dreams about. Scalability is certainly not inferior to Java in any way. The C# language has been significantly better than Java since 2008, and the distance between the two is increasing. Ongoing maintenance cost for .Net is significantly below what it is for .Net. I've spent more time on digging apps out of the horrendous monstrosity that was EJBs and J2EE than I have been actually adding features. I am soon done moving an EJB/Seam/Java/Hibernate/ app to .Net using mostly WebAPI and Angular 2. Adding features to the new app is done with half the resources in less than half the time compared to the old app. I'd say at least 50% of that is caused by the tools and the technology used, the other half is the over-engineering by the previous developers.
Java is playing catch-up, but it is playing catch-up-by-committee. It's not catching up.
Where to start? OK, let's start with that I fully switched from the C/C++ world to Java in 98. It was a little clunky back then, but fast enough. I've seen .NET solutions that use 10X or more the resources used by equivalent Java systems. I've converted .NET programs to Java, which ran faster and cleaner after conversion. Tooling? What tooling? If you're talking about LYNC, what a pile of shit that is. Is it better than Hibernate? The answer to that question is "Would you rather be shit on by an elephant or
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If you're talking about LYNC
I assume, since this was in a DB context, you meant Linq, Lync is a messenger thingimajig I believe. Linq is a language feature not a tool, if you don't know what tools are ask a programmer. Oh, and I doubt the number of developers in the .Net world that uses Linq2SQL directly is insignificant, if you are dealing with a DB you're probably using the .Net equivalent to Hibernate, the Entity Framework. The developers of the Entity Framework did learn a thing or two from Hibernate though, and the Entity Framewo
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Yeah, Linq, the initial spell check marked my typo as an error, and after a failed google-fu that only popped up LYNC, I changed it. It happens.
While linq makes great promises, it pretty much fails to deliver as soon as you get to anything interesting, and this is not unique. I've seen the same with hibernate, JPA, and several other flavors of these "helpful" frameworks. When it comes to large data sets and high performance, these "helpful" frameworks have, in my experience, always worked against you. The
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it pretty much fails to deliver as soon as you get to anything interesting
Could you elaborate please? Again, keep databases out of it, Linq is not a database framework. The fact that you continue to compare Linq to Hibernate shows you think Linq is database related, which just shows your ignorance. Linq has nothing to do with databases.
Lambdas? I haven't seen where they are significantly better than other simpler solutions
You are kidding right? Lambdas are the simple solution, they make code more succinct and to the point than the alternatives. Your statement shows that you think you know best and everybody else is wrong. This just shows a staggering level of ignora
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it pretty much fails to deliver as soon as you get to anything interesting
Could you elaborate please? Again, keep databases out of it, Linq is not a database framework. The fact that you continue to compare Linq to Hibernate shows you think Linq is database related, which just shows your ignorance. Linq has nothing to do with databases.
I'd quote your "You're a moron" but it doesn't do justice to your statements.
You're already toast in my scenarios if you are passing more data than you need into your applications and are parsing shit in memory. That's why I restrict linq discussions purely to DBs, because any other use in what I do would be flat out stupid and the road to failure. If you don't see that, your project will probably be one I, or someone like me, will have to come rescue in the near future.
So you are not comparing Java to C#/.Net. They two are close to identical in base features, so it is impossible to make a Java app that is more modular than you can make a .Net app. What you are saying above is that you are comparing the code of a bunch of morons who could not make a modular app to the code of competent developers that could. That's the comparison of an ignorant moron.
ROFLMAO. If... no.
Sometimes bad architecture lays a crumbling foundation that just can't be corrected.
Yeah, but bad architecture is not a framework or language feature.
But some language
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That's why I restrict linq discussions purely to DBs
No, that's not why you restricted it to just DBs. You restricted it to DBs because you are ignorant. You don't use Linq2SQL in your app. It's that fucking simple. Not if performance is important. If performance is not important you also do not use Linq2SQL, you use the Entity Framework, which can be queried by using Linq, but it isn't a part of the framework. Linq is not, has never been, and will never be a DB framework. You are equating your own ignorant opinion to basic facts. The problem with opinions is
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No, that's not why you restricted it to just DBs. You restricted it to DBs because you are ignorant. You don't use Linq2SQL in your app. It's that fucking simple. Not if performance is important.
So from your statements, you don't use linq for DBs, and you don't use linq for performant code. So linq is generally useless according to your own statements for the class of systems we're discussing. Glad we got that out of the way.
Conversely, where interesting stuff was done in .Net, Java developers picked it up. The Play Framework v1 is basically what you would get if you port the good parts of -NET MVC to Java.
I reviewed Play a few years ago and found it wanting for a variety of reasons, not least of which was obscurity at the time. However, you might want to correct who took what from whom. A quick review of history shows Play pre-releases preceding the .NET MVC framework pre-releas
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So linq is generally useless according to your own statements for the class of systems we're discussing
Did I ever argue it was? However, in all systems there are significant portions that are not performance critical. Even if the overall system is. In those areas, Linq is better than the alternatives.
not least of which was obscurity
Obscurity? You have to be kidding me.
The only statement I'm making is that your statement implying that Play ported anything from .NET is a complete fallacy
So you clearly know a lot more than the creators of the Play framework. You can go here [playframework.com] and see what the Play framework creators think that they them selves did, but hey, you probably know best. Play comes with Twirl, a powerful Scala-based template engine, whose design was i
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[I reviewed Play a few years ago ...] not least of which was obscurity
Obscurity? You have to be kidding me.
You're going to argue that Play in 2009 was not obscure? Your audacity is mind-boggling.
So you clearly know a lot more than the creators of the Play framework. You can go here [playframework.com] and see what the Play framework creators think that they them selves did, but hey, you probably know best. Play comes with Twirl, a powerful Scala-based template engine, whose design was inspired by ASP.NET Razor. Does it hurt to be that dumb?
You tell me. We were discussing Play pre-releases and Play 1.0, not Play 2.5 from 6+ years later. FYI "moving the goal posts", what you're attempting to do here, is a sign of a losing argument. Just admit you're wrong and we'll be done. In case you can't do that, why don't you tell us when Twirl was added to Play and how that relates to my statements about Play up to release 1.0.
you were processing a multi-million row complex data set on the fly for every query?
Talking about reading comprehension...Imagine processing a certain type of performance data every 15 minutes. This is the monstrous data set. As part of that processing, you are required to enrich certain records with data retrieved at the beginning of the fifteen minute interval from an external source. One where you have no ability to control the result set size. Was that difficult to comprehend? That data must be processed, in memory, prior to you being able to do any form of data enrichment. Was that difficult to comprehend? Again, have you ever worked with external data providers?
Not exactly a high-concurrency large data
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You're going to argue that Play in 2009 was not obscure? Your audacity is mind-boggling.
It was the most light-weight, most non-obscure of all the Java frameworks. I understand this can be difficult to understand. Ask someone who knows Java the next time you meet them. Now, can you find another source that agrees with your moronic 10:1 advantage? Fanbois are tiring.
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[Play in 2009] was the most light-weight, most non-obscure of all the Java frameworks.
confirms everything said about you in ancestor posts.
Now, can you find another source that agrees with your moronic 10:1 advantage?
It was clearly stated as being a comparison of 2 systems. Could the .NET system have been rebuilt to follow the better "best practices" of the Java design? Sure. But unless it went hybrid, it would never compete, as the core data services ran on big iron and wintel had nothing even close in the ballpark, something about 4 CPU systems being the max at the time. So if you believe even 40 windows boxes could keep up with a single AS400, well, we're done then
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something about 4 CPU systems being the max at the time
Ignorant BS. You just proved your self 100% clueless.
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You are correct, there aren't a lot of companies running COBOL that have the .NET developers within ear shot of each other.
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Not 100% true; I've worked at several firms where we were converting our old COBOL systems in to a .NET/Windows platform, we were in earshot. Good thing is, most of those COBOL developers were either at retirement age or close to with a good incentive to hang around and help us .NET guys understand the legacy systems. Most of it was business/tech merged knowledge, obviously the architecture is different.
Microsoft is hoping to bridge the gap between platforms; at the end of the day, if you have a cross-platf
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I haven't been in the
Why post as AC? (Score:1)
Dude, get an account already. You have the experience, this isn't hard. Otherwise as an AC, it's like should I really give a crap what this person is saying? They're probably full of it.
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Companies that use .NET are not smart but we have a lot of dumb companies. Would be better to use an open source toolkit rather than to make oneself hostage of MS, but these kinds of decisions are made by execs rather than techies too often. Unfortunately NET is everywhere, doesnt mean its good to use it.
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You haven't a clue and clearly aren't qualified to speak on it. Lots of "techies" use and love .NET. Python is fine, even pretty good these days and if you need to run on Linux it's great. I mean I don't get the asinine stupidity that is the Python 2/Python 3 divide, but whatever. I guess someone smoked some crack and came up with that idea.. PyCharm is pretty nice, etc...
Java is...meh. OK, but from a developer's perspective it's inferior in just about every way to .NET (comparing C# and Java). Other th
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Companies that use .NET are not smart
Can you elaborate on why? :Net and C# beats the Java platform in every single way except perhaps one, the Play Framework, which originally was basically .Net MVC ported to Java.
Would be better to use an open source toolkit rather than to make oneself hostage of MS,
Ah, that explains it. You are just clueless. Let''s see, what Open Source tools are .Net comprised of? Well, all of .Net obviously. The C# Compiler too. Is the Java compiler open source? More? Yeah, Visual Studio is free, but it isn't open source, but then again, Visual Studio Code, a very good IDE for just about anything is. Yeah, s
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It may because the decision in big corps involving more beauracracy rather than the tech people down in the trenche, who would prefer python or something
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Sure.. sure. All the bestest companies advertise on Craigslist. Oh, and it's 2012 and startups in San Francisco are totally the hottest thing. Yo, you get any of that hot startup stock bro??
Like I said, out of touch. No skin off my sack, I can slum and develop in Python or Java, but this delusion you people have about "nobody uses .NET!" cracks me up.
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The most popular game engine uses .Net so it's likely that most of the games on iOS and Android already use it. It's fun to read some of the /. reaction to this but they are doing some really cool things.
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I work for a smallish (less than 40 employees, two thirds of them developers) company, but not a startup - the company has been around for over 20 years. Most of the colleagues target .NET nowadays, I am the only full time C guy left, and during the past 12 months I've spent more time on the phone or with a soldering iron than with GCC.
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I do believe red hats were banned when Trump started marketing them for fundraising.
Not really ready for prime time (Score:5, Informative)
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This is what I was about to ask...
What version of the .NET CLR is it compatible with? 3.0? 4.0? 4.7?
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The tool shows compatibility for the following versions when run on one of my assemblies:
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This gets into the details for the .NET Platform Standard and which versions of each official .NET implementation correspond to which versions of the standard:
https://github.com/dotnet/core... [github.com]
It also provides a better system of dependency management (guard rails) when using a subset implementation.
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I've been holding my breath for a long time for this, and it's pretty disappointing to have to say... This is really not ready for real use -- at least for most non-trivial use.
We're seeing that something is keeping a spinlock going instead of actually waiting - as a process that is waiting for data is using 100% CPU while waiting. Doesn't do the same on Windows. The guys are now refactoring for this release to see if its fixed in this vs Preview 1.
A convergence of Windows and Linux. (Score:1)
I'm not surprised by this. We've been seeing a convergence of Windows and Linux for some time now. Like Slashdot recently reported, there has been a preview release of Windows 10 that includes bash [slashdot.org]. On the Linux side, systemd and GNOME 3 have been inspired by Windows, and have brought a more Windows-like experience to Linux. An example of this is how a change in systemd broke UNIX commands like screen and tmux [slashdot.org]. Both OSes are slowing migrating toward each other.
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Running email servers as root and using root to install new programs (despite the installer only needing to modify a few files) isnt particularly smart either. Look at many Unix ways of doing things and its numb skulled.
Microsoft patented Linux © (Score:2)
How could Red Hat be that stupid, signing the patent agreement means validating Microsoft claims that Linux violates their patents and now Red Hat is giving Microsoft a seat at an Open Source conference. Just how stupid do you have to be to not see this.
Good Start... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's a much needed expansion of the .Net ecosystem (better late than never) and I do think will become a useful alternative to the JVM, which Oracle seems to have little interest in evolving or improving. It took forever to get invokedynamic added as an opcode. Tail call optimization is still not supported, after years of being requested. And there's tons of other ideas on the table that aren't getting anywhere.
In the case of .Net core, it's all open source. The runtime, the compiler, the cli tools. Sure, Microsoft isn't going to take any proposal on the table, but there's a process for making changes. And, C# is a great language to develop in (and F# is nice when you need it). And who knows, maybe it'll be a Scala target some day. I honestly think people will be surprised at it's performance compared to the JVM. It's adapted a lot of modernization that the JVM eschews for backwards compatibility and known predictability.
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Do we really need more and more and more .. features? And after that, everyone will complain that it's too bloated. Tired of this nonsense.
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So isn't OpenJDK open source?
Of course it is. There's also a "process for making changes", the Java Community Process [wikipedia.org].
It's a TRAP! (Score:1)
It's a TRAP!
Not ios (Score:2)
Why was this article categorized as "iOS"? It is much less about iOS than it is about Linux, Android or even MacOS. The story is about something revealed at the Red Hat Summit- clearly Linux-centric.
>"One of the purposes of .NET Core was to make Linux and OS X into first-class supported platforms,"
Linux and MacOS
Not all that useful (Score:2)
Its not really that useful as it does not include WPF, that excludes a large number of apps being able to run on Linux.
Hooray! (Score:2)
(...it's obvious I'm joking, right?...)
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I actually like PowerShell; it has improved over the years and being able to use .NET namespaces inside your shell script is useful. Right tool, for the right job after all.
Re: "Finally!"??? (Score:1)
I kinda want to make systemd run nibbles.bas and gorilla.bas now that you said that!
MS misunderstood Google (Score:1)
If there is one way to make every kind of developer mad at you, it is watching their development machine and play cheap spyware tactics as "you had opt out option". I think some people may even get fired because of this.
I think they watched Google do all the "spying" and getting away with it but they miss a very critical point. I have never seen Google mess with corporate services , or developer facing software. Once you pay for corporate Gmail, all privacy issues are gone. Their Android SDK for Windows do
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Once you pay for corporate Gmail, all privacy issues are gone
Spoken like someone who has never tried to use Google's commercial offerings. They claim that they anonymise the data that they collect, but they still collect a lot and their sales people have no power to negotiate on this (Microsoft's do and, unlike Google, were able to provide an SLA that allowed us to meet our legal requirements for confidentiality).
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Once you pay for corporate Gmail, all privacy issues are gone
Spoken like someone who has never tried to use Google's commercial offerings. They claim that they anonymise the data that they collect, but they still collect a lot and their sales people have no power to negotiate on this (Microsoft's do and, unlike Google, were able to provide an SLA that allowed us to meet our legal requirements for confidentiality).
Sorry it seems that I was misinformed by their fans, I personally don't use any of their corporate solutions and for my personal mail, I keep paying to fastmail.fm guys.
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Would this be the .NET from the same company that has been pushing spyware into millions of computers around the world and making it increasingly difficult to work out how to opt out?
Yes https://github.com/dotnet/cli/pull/2145 [github.com].
So lucky it's open source then? Oh right, you're ready to throw open source under the bus for any opportunity to generate some Microsoft FUD. The answer here is to fork the project and/or don't accept the submission but ultimately -- as we have seen with systemd already -- the open source "community" is a bunch of do nothings who will bitch a little bit but ultimately suck down whatever is given to you. You claimed you needed source code and freedoms but as systemd and this have proven, you're just a bunch
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Now with .NET, the MS backdoor takeover of RedHat is more or less complete: systemd and Gnome make it hard for me to tell the difference between the two. Or maybe it's the backdoor of RedHat into Microsoft... Either way, similar result.
(taken with a slight wink and nod to the humor-impaired amongst you)