Fedora 24 Featuring GNOME 3.20, Tons Of Improvements Released (betanews.com) 174
After several delays, the Fedora Project on Tuesday released Fedora 24 (download link), the latest version of its Linux-based operating system. Fedora 24 brings with it a number of interesting features and changes, including the GNOME 3.20 desktop environment. The latest version of GNOME comes with media-player controls in the notification panel, and improved search feature in the Files application. New GNOME will also let you easily upgrade to Fedora 25, by simply using its Software application. There's also improved font-rendering. Among other things Fedora 24 has an upgraded version of glibc, or GNU C Library, which comes with improved performance and bug fixes across the entire operating system. You can learn more about the features at TechRepublic..
w00t! (Score:5, Insightful)
I admit it's not fashionable, but I am a Fedora/CentOS/RH fanboy. Not only is Fedora offer the latest and greatest for the Desktop, but they offer enterprise level integrations and features that no other can match. FreeIPA anyone?!
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I can't help it.. So, it comes with free beer? That's the feature most of us will be interested in! Even better if it repeals tax increases on beer!
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Think AD for linux, unix, excellent CLI, UI tools, controls DNS, sudo, RBAD, HBAC, kerberos, etc etc. integrates with AD, SAML and many other things. Basically, setups up and easily unifies all the hard boring behind the scenes stuff that no one but SA's care about. If it's good enough for CERN, then it's good enough for me.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=freeipa [lmgtfy.com]
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I can't help it.. So, it comes with free beer? That's the feature most of us will be interested in! Even better if it repeals tax increases on beer!
Well it's not much but if you run the html5 test [html5test.com], I get the following out of a possible 555 ponts. With exception of "Qupzilla" I get the same results in Fedora 23 as well.
Chrome - 501
Firefox - 478
Konqueror - 355
Qupzilla - 521 - This is a new browser in Fedora 24
It must be noted that I have only installed Fedora 24 in a virtual machine but not on my hardware yet. So far I have not seen any issues with Fedora 24 and will be installing it after I have done my due diligence such as backups and saving
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Me too: Fedora/RH/CentOS user here. Debian packages just need too much attention (a2enmod a2ensite, wtf?) The command yum provide */file beats anything in apt I've come across. I even have installed a demo instance of FreeIPA to replace my Windows AD domain. I need to start testing it again and go entirely off-MS.
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The command yum
yum is gone, now it's dnf and do you know what dnf stands for? Absolutely nothing, the guy was just looking for a short name that wasn't taken.
Well we all know it won't live long, package management will end up in systemd like evertything else soon enough. Probably rpmctl or something like that.
I can't believe this train wreck.
But other than that and the usual pulseaudio bugs, yes, Fedora is awesome, second to none at the moment.
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As for systemd, it only bothers me at two times - startups and shutdowns. Sometimes it hangs and won't get the job done which makes it like MS Windows years back when the only choice at times was to go for the reset button
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The systemd people are desktop people. That's their focus and their background (lookup systemd and see the website where it's hosted). But not only are those people half-baking things and playing sorcerer's apprentice, they also have very little concerns for the vast majority of linux use cases, i.e. servers.
It's a fascinating situation, as if the bank tellers had taken over the bank and were making decision based on their limited exposure to how the bank was actually making money. And everybody sits around
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Me too: Fedora/RH/CentOS user here. Debian packages just need too much attention (a2enmod a2ensite, wtf?) The command yum provide */file beats anything in apt I've come across. I even have installed a demo instance of FreeIPA to replace my Windows AD domain. I need to start testing it again and go entirely off-MS.
From Fedora 23 on dnf has replaced yum. Basically dnf is really dandied yum so not allot has changed.
Fedora like most Linux distros has had a GUI installer or package manager for years which is every bit as functional as the using command line.
As for using MS Windows try installing Windows 10 in a virtual machine (you can get the ISO free from Microsoft) and then look at all the features that are turned on by default. Good luck getting rid of all the telemetry although most people with a bit of technica
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You can put the sites/modules you want in the proper directories without running any commands.
How do you do that? Just thinking about it? Because otherwise you will have to use at least one command.
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Debian is just that good.
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Redhat Shills, set phasers to "obvious!"
Shields up, return fire.
Captain all I can see on the scanners is debris, shall I search for survivors?
Belay that Ensign, our phasers and photon torpedos are too powerful, all we can do is pray for their misguided souls.
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that's fine but I hope you don't put that GNOME crap on it, use a good desktop like MATE or Cinnamon
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Fedora 11 here, for the same reason. I tried F24 beta recently and the installer was a horror show selecting disk space and mount points. At one point something I tried gave me the error "Failed to add new device - local variable 'e' referenced before assignment". When I finally got a mount point selected, the final selectio
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I run mostly Fedora/CentOS as well but my workstation where I am typing this is Fedora 14 because it's the last stable distro before all the innovators started making things "better." If I need a more modern OS that's what VMs and ssh are for.
Wow! Fedora 14 (late 2010 to late 2011) and saying that it's the last stable distro boy I don't even know why you bother. I just put Fedora 24 on a virtual machine under Fedora 23 and it took an exhausting 20 minutes, I mean having to click on the install icon, then the language (it was already selected) and then select "Install" was hard but then having to create a root password followed by a user name and password really is incredibly difficult. Oh! It works.
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I used to be, too, but Fedora hasn't been really good since 14 or 15; they ruined it when they upgraded to Gnome 3. I prefer KDE but Fedora 14 was so good, I didn't care it was easier to use it with Gnome. (It would be nice if they'd support KDE better.)
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Yep, 14 was the last one for me. I was exclusively a RH guy all the way from RH5 up to FC14. (and for some reason the weenies here can't handle it, so I gather downmods...)
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I admit it's not fashionable, but I am a Fedora/CentOS/RH fanboy. Not only is Fedora offer the latest and greatest for the Desktop, but they offer enterprise level integrations and features that no other can match. FreeIPA anyone?!
I was, but this time, my standard is Fedora23. My UPS does not show up with Fedora24. upower-0.99.4.tar.xz does not compile with Fedora24
I won't run a SSD based system if when necessary, the UPS can't tell the computer to "shutdown now / poweroff "
With spinning disks, any file corruption can be usually repaired on reboot with the ext4 or xfs journal.
With SSDs, the entire SSD can be accidentally wiped out due to an unplanned shutdown.
Re:So why so much anger in the Linux community? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't deny that some people give up because they are angry about X, Y, or Z. But I think, pure and simple, the reason Linux's desktop share is so low is that nearly every computer you buy comes with either Windows or Mac OS pre-installed, and people simply aren't going to change the operating system (and in most cases wouldn't quite know how to do that either).
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I don't deny that some people give up because they are angry about X, Y, or Z. But I think, pure and simple, the reason Linux's desktop share is so low is that nearly every computer you buy comes with either Windows or Mac OS pre-installed, and people simply aren't going to change the operating system (and in most cases wouldn't quite know how to do that either).
HP and Dell both offer no-OS options, HP offers preinstalled Ubuntu LTS on their machines, both options are at a discount to Windows installations. I haven't looked at other vendors lately.
Do me a favor. Go to Dell's and HP's websites and find me those laptops without Windows pre-installed within 2 minutes. No search engines allowed, you have to start at their home page and click to get there.
Unless you have their websites memorized, it'll probably take you a little longer than 2 minutes. Which goes to show that Linux desktops are really a "behind the counter" product of PC vendors, for the most part. They get no exposure because the vendors fear the wrath of Microsoft, despite being vastl
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Having just purchased a Dell laptop with Linux already installed, I can tell you you're wrong. It took me all of 20 seconds.
Products->Laptops->For Work Select Linux for your OS Done
You knew exactly where to go, so that doesn't count. Put yourself in the shoes of a regular pleb just searching for a nice laptop to edit some office docs and light web browsing. They're not going to hunt for "Operating System" and specifically choose "FreeDOS and Linux" (yes, that's exactly what it says on Dell's website). If you just go to "Products -> Laptops -> For Work", the page displays almost entirely Windows laptops, with Chromebooks at the very bottom.
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Also, a lot of people buy their computers at a brick-and-mortar store. You're not going to find Linux at your local BestBuy/Walmart.
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Even if you know where to go, Dell still charges significantly more for Linux laptops with the same specs as a Windows one. Why would anybody buy that? I suppose if Canonical got a significant cut, maybe... but do they?
Re:So why so much anger in the Linux community? (Score:5, Interesting)
Fedora has nothing to do with GNOME, systemd, or PulseAudio. Firstly, Fedora is developed by the Fedora Project. Secondly, GNOME is developed by the GNOME Foundation. Thirdly, systemd and PulseAudio are developed mostly by employees of Red Hat, but lots of others contribute to them, and they are distributed by freedesktop.org. You can say "oh well they're all funded by Red Hat so they're all really from the same source," but that's dubious logic. You could say the Linux kernel is Red Hat's project by the same logic.
If you hate GNOME Shell, use a different DE. I also hate it and I don't use it. If you hate PulseAudio, uninstall it and use something else to your like. If you don't like systemd, many distros still maintain SysVinit-core, or you could use Slackware or Devuan or Gentoo or CRUX because they don't ship systemd as the default init system.
Again and again you Anonymous Cowards proclaim a great upheaval over the above issues, but in real life, this doesn't seem to be the case; the user base, developer base, support base, and most clearly of all the *financials* of all the major Linux companies that ship distros with GNOME and PulseAudio and systemd (Canonical, SUSE, Red Hat, IBM, Oracle) are all doing just great.
Then there are all of the people who are angry but don't express it online. I bet a lot of them just say "fuck it" to Linux. They just use FreeBSD, or OS X, or even Windows without saying a thing. This is probably why Linux's share of the desktop market is at most 2%, and that's being generous.
The Linux desktop market share is higher than it was before systemd and GNOME 3 were widely adopted.
Re:So why so much anger in the Linux community? (Score:5, Interesting)
On the Gnome 3 front, I'll agree that it's probably easier to just go with MATE desktop if you miss Gnome 2 that much. I'm sympathetic, but the fork has been pretty viable, so it's not like there's no recourse.
Similarly for pulseaudio, by and large if it is not well liked, it may be ignored. Also as something relatively 'on the fringe', it's not something I feel like RedHat as an organization particularly cares about. Network Manager is another one in this way *mostly* (non-network manager ways of managing wifi have atrophied).
systemd is a different sort of thing in a couple of ways. One is that given it's role, it is not so simply swapped out at user will. It's one of those core components that is difficult to make selectable (like kernel and glibc). As such a user doesn't have as much individual ability to opt in/out, hence the advanced vitriol, as those who dislike it have relatively little recourse than to whine.
Also, to say that RHAT isn't effectively calling the shots over systemd is slily. Of course they are. It is, at it's core, a part of their strategy. It enables some capabilities they really want for their business in providing orchestration capabilities. The leadership of systemd is within redhat. the leadership of the kernel is outside (though RHAT makes a ton of contributions, they are not the leaders). The leadership role is not some arbitrary detail, it's pretty important, *particularly* in systemd that has such a strong vision of what it wants (contrast with an open source project like openstack that kind of meanders about all over the place).
systemd has caused some headaches and there's frustration because expressing those headaches is meat with mostly useless 'me toos' or dismissive 'you are just trolling'. Not a whole lot of 'well, let's see what we can do to address the specific concerns', but instead calling out such viewpoints as just flat out wrong.
Sure, a lot of it has devolved into inane troll copy/paste posts, but there are legitimate gripes and RedHat is in a key position as the pusher of the technology to be the target of frustration.
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There's like twenty other init systems, and somehow every single of them but systemd manages to be relatively easy to replace.
Glibc is replaceable: musl is pretty feature-complete. It's intentionally not bug-compatible, though, preferring being true to POSIX rather than glibc, which means programs relying on specific glibc quirks might need some porting. Any sane upstream accepts such portability patches (guess which init system refused them...).
And as for the kernel... on Debian, beside Linux, you have k
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Because none of those twenty are deliberately viral, requiring that services be rewritten for use by systemd... such that going back to not using systemd shortly requires more effort than using it originally did. Of course, the next release of systemd will include whatever these services are within itself anyway. Once you let the borg inject nanoprobes into your neck...
This isn't to say that existing SysV-like init managers don't have problems or a need to be re-architected and cleaned up of many years' cru
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It's still not quite to the point where people who have had gnome2 on their workstations for a decade are not going to be annoyed by it. Centos5 still gets updates and still has gnome2.
I've had a few of them, and fucking insane shit like suggestions to kill all backgro
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>I've had a few of them, and fucking insane shit like suggestions to kill all background processes when a user logs off indicate that there are many more to come thanks to the systemd team wanting to change *nix into something completely different and stop all old software from working. I still use systemd on a few desktop machines but have had to roll some systems back to an earlier version due to weird shit happening with init.
That issue was an update on Debian that reset a configuration namely the "#KillUserProcesses=" in /etc/systemd/logind.conf being set to "yes" instead of "no". This issue never impacted Fedora.
I will agree that any update changing pre-set configurations is reprehensible, after all, we know that Microsoft would never do that .... Oh wait! :-)
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They are windows weenies with a single user non-networked mindset that are trying to reshape other stuff into that image.
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On the Gnome 3 front, I'll agree that it's probably easier to just go with MATE desktop if you miss Gnome 2 that much.
The KDE Spin of Fedora is high quality. Not perfect, but certainly usable out of the box.
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systemd has caused some headaches and there's frustration because expressing those headaches is meat with mostly useless 'me toos' or dismissive 'you are just trolling'. Not a whole lot of 'well, let's see what we can do to address the specific concerns', but instead calling out such viewpoints as just flat out wrong.
Really. I have been using Fedora from the 1990's and have been using it exclusively on my own PC's for over eight years. I have never had a problem with SystemD. As for the enterprise you have to raise change requests and get everything signed off before you are allowed to make changes to any computing system. Going in guns blazing is a sure fire way of losing your job.
If you don't like "SytemD" that is your prerogative but if you are managing computer systems it is not professional to dump on a particula
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I'm very confused as to where you thought I was saying anything about 'going in guns blazing'. Also, Fedora didn't exist in the 90s.
I'm also unsure how you think every criticism constitutes dumping on systemd without 'proof'. A prominent example is the complaint that journald uses a binary format for logs. This is not some spurious claim without 'proof', it simply is the reality, but people disagree on the cost/benefit facet.
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This also pisses me off.
I dislike systemd and would replace it if it were easy, which it is not. It is not a dealbreaker for me. I feel all the systemd complaints would vanish in an instant if Devuan spun up for real, or if any one solid distro clearly decided to avoid systemd, or at least support those who don't want to deal with it.
I grouse about pulseaudio but stop shy of levying true hate on it. It does some things very well, I just get ticked when it is randomly incompatible, confused, or decides th
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Why this need to frame dissent and disagrement as 'anger'? That doesn't look like a sincere attempt to engage in debate but to discredit opponents.
This is a constant trend with the Redhat ecosystem, to dismiss debate and dissent away as angry people, grey beards or disgruntled elements without engaging in discussion.
The dicussion of the merits, approach, practices of systemd for instance were clevrly deflected by framing it as old vs new issue which made every discussion toxic. So discussions like the rea
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cut the bullshit.
Redhat sponsors Fedora.
Redhat pushes badly engineered garage like systemd and GNOME, including in Fedora.
Fedora is where RedHat tries its random brain farts out on the redhat guinea pigs, aka Fedora users.
Okay? And what's your point?
Re:So why so much anger in the Linux community? (Score:5, Insightful)
Redhat is crapping in the open source pool, and the sewage has spread
How exactly does one infest a pool where anybody in the world is free to take the parts they want and leave the rest, like a bazaar? Again, if you don't like GNOME or systemd or Pulse Audio or Fedora, don't use them.
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They put shit in it, taking advantage of wealth and power they have. The pollution is spreading to all Linux distros. No, the answer must be more comprehensive than just not using the product as the harm spreads to all open source, this projects and the kind of defective minds that produce them need to be shut down
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Because we don't have the time and inclination to create our own Linux distros. If we have to do that, we might as well just use FreeBSD, Windows, macOS or some other non-Linux OS that doesn't waste our time. The whole point of using a Linux distro is to save us time and save us effort.
We used to be able to switch distros to get a different environment, but those days are long gone now that the major distros all include systemd, and many force GNOME 3 by default, too. Debian and Fedora, which once gave very different experiences, have converged. The other major distros have followed them.
Having to remove systemd, GNOME 3 and other crapware that comes bundled with Linux distros is just as annoying as having to remove crapware that comes bundled with Windows. Having to install replacements for all of this software is even more of a hassle.
We surely aren't going to waste our time with some no-name obscure distro like Devuan, or even oddball distros like Slackware and Gentoo. We don't want to use a Linux distro that may not be around next month, and we don't want to use a Linux distro that's remained in the 1990s, and we don't want to use a Linux distro that requires us to wait hours or days for it to compile software.
Linux used to offer us a lot of benefits. Now it's nothing but a hassle.
So let me get this straight. Maintaining a distro to serve your niche preferences is too much work for you, but you have all the hours in the world to make anonymous shit posts within minutes every time a Linux-related article is posted on Slashdot?
Cry me a river.
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There is now a Debian fork (among other alternatives) where I'm sure you will all be welcome. So kindly fuck off.
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FOSS now allows people with inferior ability to ruin projects, that's how systemd took over Debian via a group of SJW given a megaphone
The GNU side of FOSS that provides Linux OS infrastructure is now about political correctness and not hurting feelings rather than technical excellence
nothing insane about pointing out the inferiority of a product
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I'm married with teenage children, I don't rail 24x7 on reddit against systemd, yet here I often point out its garbage. Maybe your stereotypes are worthless. And maybe you are a shill for inferior engineering led by a failure of a developer, e.g. systemd
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Here's a tip: download Linux Mint KDE Edition.
No system (though it's coming; they're very conservative and are waiting for it to be better-tested by other distros). No GNOME3 (at all, the choices are KDE, Cinnamon, MATE, and Xfce). The only "crapware" I can find is that their version of Firefox makes Yahoo the default search engine, which isn't hard to change. And LM has been around for years now, with no signs of fading away.
I do agree that there's been too much convergence, especially with the DEs whic
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The Firefox making Yahoo the default search is a Firefox thing, not a linux thing at all: http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/2... [cnn.com]
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No, it's different with Linux Mint:
https://www.linuxmint.com/sear... [linuxmint.com]
The thing you're missing is that in Linux, the browser is built from sources by the distro, not supplied by Firefox, so distros can and do make customizations. Linux Mint makes money by making certain search engines default on the version Firefox they package. This is different on Windows where users download a pre-built Firefox directly from Mozilla's site, and presumably Mozilla makes money the same way.
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Because we don't have the time and inclination to create our own Linux distros
In other words "I want you to do all the work for me, and I'm just going to sit over here and post complaints on Slashdot and Reddit if you do it the way you like it rather than the way I like it."
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Somebody mod this guy up, he's right. Its the main reason why I switched away from the RH ecosystem. And before anybody tries to throw the "hipster" slur, I'm probably old enough to be your Dad. I've been at this for awhile, and there are good reasons to think the more traditional UNIX way was better.
Re:So why so much anger in the Linux community? (Score:4, Insightful)
Somebody mod this guy up, he's right. Its the main reason why I switched away from the RH ecosystem. And before anybody tries to throw the "hipster" slur, I'm probably old enough to be your Dad. I've been at this for awhile, and there are good reasons to think the more traditional UNIX way was better.
That's great! If you're comfortable with the way you're accustomed to doing things, I have nothing against you. I'm just trying to figure out why so many people shit on the hard work done by FOSS developers, who spend time and money to give stuff to the world entirely for free (as in beer AND speech) and don't force you in any way to use it. I don't like GNOME Shell, but I don't anonymous shit-post every article about Linux. I just don't use it, and I don't suffer from apoplectic fits knowing that some peoples' opinions differ from mine.
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Somebody mod this guy up, he's right. Its the main reason why I switched away from the RH ecosystem. And before anybody tries to throw the "hipster" slur, I'm probably old enough to be your Dad. I've been at this for awhile, and there are good reasons to think the more traditional UNIX way was better.
That's great! If you're comfortable with the way you're accustomed to doing things, I have nothing against you. I'm just trying to figure out why so many people shit on the hard work done by FOSS developers, who spend time and money to give stuff to the world entirely for free (as in beer AND speech) and don't force you in any way to use it. I don't like GNOME Shell, but I don't anonymous shit-post every article about Linux. I just don't use it, and I don't suffer from apoplectic fits knowing that some peoples' opinions differ from mine.
What I'm trying to understand is the constant critique of others when you are free to do your own thing. Linus started developing the kernel all by himself and now there's hundreds (thousands?) of folks helping him out. Each of the distros started as an idea by a few people, then grew as more people liked what the first few were doing.
I for one don't care that my laptop uses PulseAudio, SystemD, NetworkManager, or Gnome Shell. As long as they work for what I want to do, why should I care? Sure, there are
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Further complicating matters, while it may have once been intended to leverage Redhat's then-leading position in the linux desktop market to gauge reactions and test, it scared people off (by being unstable and fickle) to the point where the remaining user base is pretty sycophantic toward Red Hat. So instead of a nice representative userbase to gauge reaction in the general linux ecosystem, it's become an echo chamber of praise for the platform.
Re: So why so much anger in the Linux community? (Score:2)
Can you reproduce this on a distro other than Debian?
I have 100 production VMs (growing at about 8 a week as we migrate across) 20 20-core RHEV/ovirt/kvm hypervisors running RHEL7 or Centos7, and systemd hasn't caused any issues.
Yes, you may need to do customisations and troubleshoot service startup issues (usually caused by operator error, and in my case only on non-production VMs) differently, but the consistency is a bigger benefit.
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Oh yes. Debian. Sabayon. Gentoo. Ubuntu. Fedora.
I can experience super fun to troubleshoot sytemd failures. I've given up ticketing the bugs and just avoid (or barely accept when necessary) systemd. When there's no longer an option to avoid it, I'll leave linux. LIKE: I can't copy and paste from konsole, sometimes (but only sometimes). Sometimes, stdout goes somewhere else. The solution is to close that tab and open another. Usually after less exits weirdly. Must be a less problem. Random bootup problems. N
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I would've been very, very happy if my Debian system had gotten to a login prompt, never mind a non-rescue shell, after a system update installed systemd! But it wouldn't even get that far.
If you're running a bleeding-edge distro where the init system will change during a regular system update, you should expect things to break. Do you also seethe with rage when you install an alpha-release kernel and it doesn't boot?
We're moving on. We see that the Linux we once knew and loved is long dead. We're moving to FreeBSD. We're moving to OS X. Some of us are even moving back to Windows! Linux is a lost cause to us, and an inferior product.
That's nice. Just please stop infesting every article with your nonsensical commentary, thanks.
Re: So why so much anger in the Linux community? (Score:3)
"I would've been very, very happy if my Debian system had gotten to a login prompt, never mind a non-rescue shell, after a system update installed systemd! But it wouldn't even get that far."
Many distros (Fedora, Arch, Opensuse, Mageia etc.) switched to systemd and there were very few complaints. I upgraded distro releases that brought the switch to systemd on a number of systems without any issues.
All of the complaints about "upgrading to systemd broke my system" were "upgrading to Jessie broke my system".
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I tinkered with Linux a bit back in the late 90's and haven't used it since. I remember often fighting with installations but I was always able to conquer them eventually. I've used Windows ever since though, just because I'm lazy.
When Microsoft decided to make the upkeep of my Windows 7 installs a pain I decided to look into Linux again. I thought that SURELY it was polished as a marble by this point. I've had much more difficulty this time than I did the LAST time that I took an interest. I just assumed that I had become dumber in my old age. But I see so many people like you citing the exact problems that I'm having and then blaming them on systemd that it makes me wonder if I came back just in time to see Linux broken by bad decision making? :|
If you'd enlighten me as to the exact error you're having, I can try to help. But in literally every installation I've done or assisted with, it's as easy as "Burn Linux ISO to USB drive, reboot, change boot order to USB drive #1," and then everything thereafter can be done with hitting enter repeatedly. This has been true both before and after systemd was adopted.
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I see so much anger over GNOME 3 and systemd here.
What you're seeing is called a vocal minority. Bonus points if you failed to realise the people on forums, reddit and slashdot are often the same.
Guess what, the sky didn't fall, BSD didn't overtake Linux as the main OS of choice, and in general the vast majority of Linux users (myself included) simply just don't give a shit.
fedora 24 (Score:2, Informative)
does it still have systemd and gnome3? If so, don't want.
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Fedora 24 is awesome 'cause you can upgrade to 25? (Score:2)
Ummm...that's one of your "tons of improvements"?
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>> New GNOME (in Fedora 24) will also let you easily upgrade to Fedora 25
Ummm...that's one of your "tons of improvements"?
Unfortunately yes. Fedora has had a huge problem with upgrades in the past. They believe they have finally fixed that.
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It's been fixed since what was it... Fedora 17? IIRC that was the last one where the upgrade issues were more prevalent. I haven't had trouble since then with in place upgrades.
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All right, I'll bite. What the hell does the DE have to do with whether your upgrade-release mechanism works or is broken? Or whether there even is an upgrade-release mechanism?
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>> New GNOME (in Fedora 24) will also let you easily upgrade to Fedora 25
Ummm...that's one of your "tons of improvements"?
Unfortunately yes. Fedora has had a huge problem with upgrades in the past. They believe they have finally fixed that.
You do know that Fedora has had "spins" for a few years now. You can choose KDE, XFce, LXDE, Mate-Compiz, Gnome, Cinnamon, SOAS (see here [fedoraproject.org]).
As for upgrading or fresh install, I find that it is actually quicker to do a fresh install providing you have configured your filesystems such that your system filesystems don't contain user data. Obviously, due diligence is important here in that you should know what add-ons you require (ie. document them) and any configurations you need such as password and group
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No, the web page says it is broken because 24 has several packages with higher versions than are in 25, just like CentOS's upgrade from 6 to 7 has been broken for over six months because of the same problem. Red Hat wants you to throw away servers rather than upgrade. That's why hardware makers, like Dell, love them.
You realize those aren't the only two options... right?
Having to do a clean install may be annoying, but it's not particularly difficult. And if your system is partitioned correctly, it doesn't even have to affect your data.
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Oh sure, doing a clean (upgrade) install is a breeze ... until I find an important piece of software is not included in the new version of the distro, and the available binaries are incompatible with new libraries. And the source code won't compile because the the libraries have changed and so have the header files. And the Makefiles refer to stuff that doesn't exist any more. And the paths in the Makefile are obsolete.
Then multiply that by ten for other essential programs, some of which can never be made t
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No, the web page says it is broken because 24 has several packages with higher versions than are in 25, just like CentOS's upgrade from 6 to 7 has been broken for over six months because of the same problem. Red Hat wants you to throw away servers rather than upgrade. That's why hardware makers, like Dell, love them.
The upgrade on my Workstation Spin (or whatever they call it) went just fine on the lappy yesterday by auto-downgrading a couple of programs -- kind of borked the rpmfusion part but that was mostly my fault by upgrading before the official release and messing with things beforehand. All good now except for gnome-mplayer being nowhere to be found. Only really use the laptop to watch videos on anyway so was a good guinea pig to test the upgrade process before upgrading my desktop.
Today is the desktop's turn w
Re:Fedora 24 is awesome 'cause you can upgrade to (Score:5, Informative)
They're actually referring to doing easy updates via a GUI since IIRC Fedora hasn't had a distro-upgrade gui. Thusly requiring the terminal for distro upgrades....which is easy enough.
In the terminal you use dnf system-upgrade though you can still use the old "fedup" command (which redirects to dnf system-upgrade)
Upgrading F23 to F24 in the terminal is as easy as:
[code]
sudo dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=24
sudo dnf system-upgrade reboot[/code]
Of course, if one waits a couple of days the F23 version of gnome-software will be updated to support graphical distro update.
Torrents (Score:4, Informative)
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I've been told that torrents are unilaterally theft of copyrighted material and thus shouldn't be used. We all know there can't ever be a legitimate use for torrents. I don't condone your behaviour!
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I never understood the use case with torrents and free software.
The whole point of a binary distro like fedora or debian is that a local user group within your country mirrors the content within 24 hours and downloads from your ISP are unmetered by using said mirror.
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How about eliminating the requirement of this infrastructure. I mean it was good an all, but what benefit does that offer over a wide distributed system? Even torrents have the ability to prevent unmetered downloads in similar ways. I remember getting distros off torrents on a private tracker on PIPE networks since that specific network didn't count to my data.
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unmetered torrents would be dependent on the ISP, no?
The last install I did was with a 20MB netinstall ISO and fetching the packages I need on demand - to me that beats getting a 4GB DVD images, whose packages become obsolete the moment they hit the network.
And on one of my boxes I've been updating the same Ubuntu installation since Jaunty (2009), without need to reinstall.
Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
Make your mind up. Which is it?
FVWM (Score:2)
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Fluxbox is decent for a dummied media player. /sbin/halt. Stupid?, but I did that.
You have to edit the start menu by hand to include the like three programs you want to run, add an entry to turn off the PC and put setuid on
Best I ever used still is XP/2003 turned Windows 2K/98 with a virtual desktops freeware, Autohotkey and a crazy .exe and .dll editing utility that allows to change the start menu layout, delete a few useless graphics like the top right useless icon in explorer, etc.
Anything other than eye candy? (Score:2)
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Of course, he said " people like me who run the XFCE spin". Then you linked to the xfce spin.
And the answer is yes, and gone over in the article- ipv6 ping, newer versions of compilers ( https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-6/chan... [gnu.org] ), new open source codec, and I think the greater Unicode support will affect us in XFCE land.
I will tell you what Fedora version I plan to skip: whatever initially switches us to Wayland. That will be a guaranteed shit-show, and a good call to avoid upgrading for a few months. But 24 i
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I will tell you what Fedora version I plan to skip: whatever initially switches us to Wayland. That will be a guaranteed shit-show, and a good call to avoid upgrading for a few months. But 24 is solid methinks.
Thanks! Yeah, I'll likely sit that one out as well. X works just fine for what I do.
Memories of the adventure (Score:2)
Ah yes, I remember participating in the Fedora treadmill. Then I discovered Arch. With Arch I have the latest packages every single day, and I never have to reinstall or upgrade to a new release. With either of them (running Arch or constantly upgrading to the newest Fedora) you do at times run into buggy bleeding edge behavior. For systems I need to be stable and absolutely dependable (basically servers/infrastructure), I stick with CentOS or FreeBSD.
The last, best Fedora was ... (Score:2)
Probably 16 or 17. I've been using Fedora since FC3 and its quality went up until things stopped working during installation. For instance, I used to be able to switch to command prompt during installation, set up my drives in any RAID format I wanted, with ANY parameters I wanted, and have the graphical installation recognize my setup and install away. Even wireless worked off the bat on the notebooks I installed on.
Come the new installation process and it looks like everything is dummied down, which I
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No, I'd say 14 or 15. I'm pretty sure it was 16 where they started using Gnome 3, and that's when everything fell apart. Things still haven't completely recovered.
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I like KDE, myself, but the Fedora project only really supports Gnome well, especially when it comes to system settings.
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Incidentally, when did systemd make its way into Fedora?
30 March 2010; 6 years ago
BTW. For Fedora, all you need to do is choose a Live Spin [fedoraproject.org], boot and test to see if it is to your liking then if you do like what you see you can install. If you don't like it then take out your USB key and reboot back to the OS you were originally using.
Each "Spin" has it's own basic packages, which are enough to get you started. Once you have installed the "Spin" you want then it is a simple matter of using your package manager (GUI) or "dnf" to install particular packages w
Why I moved to OSX (Score:1)
Slackware and gnome (Score:1)
Still Miss Blackbox (Score:1)
I miss having to startx manually and landing on blackbox/fluxbox for the window manager to conserve memory & CPU. Yes, I'm the old codger who still thinks INIT is better than the newfangled whatchamacallit. Not trying to troll, but I get carried away and feel really old when I feel the need to post a rant like this when I see an aarticle about a GUI that's way overkill. CLI! CLI! CLI!
(Slinks back into his cave)
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No, you idiot. They did not do that.
systemd has a new feature that allows a system administrator to control what users allow which programs to persist after the user exits. That was exceedingly difficult to do. Its optional, Fedora is using it but has it set by default to allow all users to keep running processes after exit.
You're thinking of Debian, who just upgraded and took the defaults from the systemd package without really bothering to figure out what they did.
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Gnome blows. Have they replaced systemd yet? No? I'm sticking with FreeBSD.
You must be fun at parties. "What? Salt & vinegar chips??? Fuck that, I only eat sour cream & onion! I'm sticking with that, thanks."