Linux Mint Debian Edition 2 Will Be Rolling-Release 48
jones_supa writes: Following the trend of rolling-release Linux distributions, Linux Mint brings you some news and information about Linux Mint Debian Edition 2, aka. "Betsy." As you might know, the Linux Mint team maintains two distributions: Linux Mint and LMDE. LMDE was a rolling distro for a while and eventually turned into a semi-rolling one. This was good at the time but it also presented challenges: the biggest issue in LMDE was the fact that it required a lot more maintenance than Linux Mint but that it had far less users. This hurt the frequency of updates it received but also the quality of the distribution. Now, LMDE 2 is going back to be continuously upgraded and to occasionally just receive media refresh ISO images. You can check the Roadmap to see the remaining issues. As the quality of Betsy is getting higher and higher, the project is getting closer to QA stage to iron out the bugs and perform proper testing.
They should switch it to "devuan" (Score:2)
If it includes SystemD, LMDE isn't different enough from regular Mint to be worth maintaining. But if it's more different -- if regular Mint uses SystemD and LMDE doesn't -- then it justifies its existence.
They should switch it to (Score:1)
I don't agree. I use LMDE precisely because it's semi-rolling and compatible with Debian repos. I avoid the regular Linux Mint because it's tied to fixed Ubuntu repos and releases. This is certainly enough of a differentiating feature - pretty much the only difference I care about.
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Semi-rolling? I used LMDE on one of my servers for a few months and packages updates were pretty much non-existent. Semi-frozen would be more accurate. I gave up on LMDE because of Shellshock that was left unpatched for several days.
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A lot of its participants are, to put it nicely, rather toxic individuals. Anyone who has a differing opinion from these toxic individials is labeled a "troll". Immaturity is rife, and many of the participants seem to be involved just to hold positions of "power", and not to create a top notch Linux distro.
What do you expect from a group who largely define themselves by irrational hatred of one person?
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Clem already said Linux Mint Debian will NOT have systemD for now, will watch stability of that project for a while
So, it's Debian without the SystemD stink. That's a good thing
Re: They should switch it to "devuan" (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah like using 200 line minI programs with logic and data mixed in your init scripts when a few in SystemD can be done because it is event based all because it's hip to hate started by those who fear change.
Their is a reason Ubuntu, Sun, and Apple left init behind years ago.
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That's it, the final proof that /. is mostly run and read by a bunch of idiots... I don't belong here anymore so bye bye /.
How can a post containing nothing but facts be labeled as troll??? /. community, GFY
There's a real problem with all these systemd haters, because they are 100% emotional and 0% logic, so much as they ignore facts and even lie about systemd if it doesn't fit their hatred.
My last comment on /. *EVER*
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You are more than welcome to use systemd if you so choose. Don't expect everyone else to like it and use it just because you happen to.One of the biggest objections to systemd is that it's not just an init system. It's reached almost 300 thousand lines of code. That should give anyone pause for thought who considers it a replacement for init.
300k? That's it. Seriously.
While 200 lines for an init script is certainly possible that's not necessary. For example postgresql has a 58 line init script of which 14 l
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what nonsense, your desktop isn't running 4000 apps. My desktop is running a couple dozen apps after boot. There are already much simpler solutions than systemD for parallel start, monitoring, hierarchical start. Those alternatives are built in the modular unix way and not a massive monolithlic mass of bloated bad code than SystemD.
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The question is not whether a Linux distribution uses systemd or not -- the question is what it uses instead to achieve the goals of systemd (suspend, user switching, daemon monitoring, ...).
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Funny, my linux box already does suspend and user switching. Daemon monitoring is hardly a one-solution-fits-all situation, if a daemon crashes that's because something is wrong, blindly and constantly restarting the thing is not the long term solution. In fact, that's what people who use garbage like mysql do.
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It's good for Linux Mint (any edition) to wait on systemD for now. Waiting for stability is always a good thing.
But... Linux Mint is the type of system where systemD would be best suited for. Desktop/laptop computers with a focus on the end user rather than server maintainers.
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I have a better question...how in the hell are the devs gonna do QA, QC, and regression testing when on any given day one or more vital subsystems can change?
By not changing the vital subsystems. Mint 17 to 17.1 brings a new font, a slightly newer version of the file manager and window manager and such other little fixes and things. Such updates will be more mandatory looking with LMDE because they're what is in rolling release mostly.
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Similarly, systemd has a fixed (external) API. GNOME and KDE adhere to desktop standards and don't have terribly hard links to the other layers. And so on with the other pieces of software on the system. I know you're not a developer (where is your store anyway?) so I know you're not actually trolling, but it's kind of ignorant-verging-on-insulting to imply that these projects can't keep a stable API. Because if the interfaces actually were being changed every nanosecond, no one would be able to use them fo
Re: They should switch it to "devuan" (Score:2)
You mean you have to make a choice between a cell phone interface or an outdated half decade old no longer updated OS in the windows world? Or go mac and experience the dull, flat, and buggy Yosemite, broken Lion releases, or go back to the good old 2009 days of snow leopard?
L
Change for the sake of change iskilling the desktop. 2009 was when software was good for non linux. Some would argue 2003 and still use XP 64 bit and Office 2003 because it's menu driven
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I installed Jesse on an old computer just to see what the fuss was about. I'm still looking. All the commands I was used to using are still there. Service, shutdown, poweroff... they all work. /etc/init.d contains scripts. I don't know, maybe they are just wrappers, I didn't read them. Calling the scripts in /etc/init.d directly or using the service command gets me more information than I am used to seeing. That's kind of neat. I'm coming from Gentoo though, not Debian, maybe Debian's init scripts were
Update carousel? Or a Russian roulette? (Score:1)
Update carousel? Or a Russian roulette?
Can't decide what describes the "rolling releases" best.
But I gather it would work for the people locked into the web browser. Though question arises why they need an OS at all. Web 2.0, HTML5 - aren't they effectively an OS replacement?
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"emacs is a nice operating system but I prefer unix"
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Update carousel? Or a Russian roulette?
Can't decide what describes the "rolling releases" best.
In the case of the current iteration of LMDE, the best American comparison would be to an Amtrak train, or a Greyhound bus - because it is soooo sloooooow to get any updates at all. When newly updated packages are released, you might get there, eventually, someday... - just like on Amtrak. I liked LMDE at first, but I recently switched back to Mint's main edition for this reason. (Of course I'm being unfair - LMDE does not smell as bad as a Greyhound, and does not have a sticky floor.)
I suppose I'll try
Fine, but please (Score:1)
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LMDE, as the name implies, is based off Debian.
Sounds like you have a complaint that needs to be directed upstream.
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I'm running jessie with sysv init/openrc right now. Systemd *is* installed but not as an init daemon and only pulled in by KDE as a dependency.
Thus systemd hasn't *yet* taken over debian but it's up to Mint and others to 'upstream' the required manpower to keep alternatives afloat if the core debianistas only focus only on systemd.
systemd is Linux only, so Hurd and freebsd will require an alternative so long as they're port targets.
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"core debianistas"?
There are around 950 active debian developers.
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Please don't roll us LMDE folk into the festering shithole of Systemd.
Calm down, relax, breath and just give a little resistance which you then give up over and over and it's soon over and systemd will be installed.
There's no reason to fight it because it will happen.
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Nope, no SystemD. It's Debian without the SystemD suck.
"LMDE 2 'Betsy' received a lot of updates this week and its 'Mint' packages are now almost on par with Linux Mint 17.1 Rebecca. The next step is to adapt the Debian Jessie base and port all the changes and fixes already applied for Linux Mint 17.x on top of Trusty. This should take a week or two and we might be in a position to open up a BETA some time in February and to start welcoming feedback from people interested in helping us test this new distri
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the writer of the summary either did not read the Segefault article or has no clue what it says. time to read and understand
Great job correcting it then, AC. Way to bring something useful to the table.
Try harder next time, and post under your own name if you want to call someone out like that.
Freudian read (Score:2)
Opposite of the summary (Score:2, Informative)
The article actually says the opposite of what the title and summary say. Clem is confirming in his post that LMDE will be based on Debian Stable (which was originally announced a month or two ago). This is just confirming LMDE will be based on Debian's Jessie branch once Jessie becomes stable. This is the opposite of a rolling release.
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Jumping the gun a bit (Score:1)
Per the post from Clem:
"As I said in the previous chapter, we're "considering" doing that... it's not set in stone yet."
So to be clear, what they are proposing is, LMDE lke Linux Mint would keep the Jesse code base for the next 2+ years, enabling the Mint team to put more effort into improving the desktop experience and user applications. But LMDE would get these improvements on a rolling basis, so LMDE would actually get new software before the Ubuntu based Linux Mint, which would continue to get those upd