NetworkManager 1.0 Released After Ten Years Development 164
An anonymous reader writes: After ten years of development focused on improving and simplifying Linux networking, NetworkManager 1.0 was released. NetworkManager 1.0 brings many features including an increasingly modernized client library, improved command-line support, a lightweight internal DHCP client, better Bluetooth support, VPN enhancements, WWAN IPv6 support, and other features.
NetworkManager (Score:5, Informative)
One of the few unix command line tools whose command begins with a major letter.
At this rate... (Score:1)
NetworkManager 2.0 will debut in the year of the Linux desktop.
NetworkManager (Score:1)
why does it have a DHCP client? Will it still be possible to configure things manually from the command line, or do I always need a desktop environment now to connect to a wireless ethernet? Why isn't it just a thin wrapper on systemd?
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
You can control NetworkManager from the commandline, but most people are familiar with its GUI.
Re:NetworkManager (Score:5, Informative)
Modern NetworkManager releases also include a handy tool called nmtui which is basically the GUI implemented in curses. Nmcli can sometimes be a bit unintuitive so it's a good thing to have around.
Re:NetworkManager (Score:5, Funny)
Why isn't it just a thin wrapper on systemd?
Oh, that's cold, man!
Re:NetworkManager (Score:5, Insightful)
All you have to know about the NetworkManager abortion is that you can disable the service and remove the package. Then the operating system's own network configuration files, dhclient and everything, like, actually work as intended and documented.
Re:NetworkManager (Score:5, Funny)
Yes and then you just use the commandline to handle failover of network interfa.... eh no.
Well you can use the commandline to automate the connection to preferred wireles.... no?
What about moving between netwo...
Ahh fuck it I'm re-installing NetworkManager. A turd of a system service with a turd of a user interface is better than busting open the command line every time I do something as mind mindbogglingly complicated on my laptop as plugging in a network cable.
It may have its warts, but it does what it says on the box. It simplifies network management in a time where networks are not a single solid stable connection to the host. You wouldn't want it on a server, but you wouldn't want to be without it on pretty much any other use case.
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You wouldn't want it on a server, but you wouldn't want to be without it on pretty much any other use case.
NetworkManager should be fine on most servers. While the project used to be focused on desktops and laptops there's nothing non-serverish about it.
Re:NetworkManager (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, NetworkManager should be fine on most servers. Unless you want to use network bonding. And VLANs. And bridges. Nevermind bridged VLAN's (yes, those are a thing) on top of 802.3Ad bonds. And ... and... well, 90% of the other functionality that is offered by the Linux networking stack. NetworkManager works fine for managing the 10% of the network stack that is used 90% of the time. For the other 10% of the time, it is an abortion that should be taken out back of the barn and shot like a rabid dog. And this other 10% that NetworkManager won't do is 99% of why people pay me big bucks to make Linux do what they need it to do, since you will not get high performance networking out of a server using the limited functionality provided by NetworkManager. As in, the servers I work with generally have at least half a dozen gigabit NICs and two 10Gbit NIC's. NetworkManager won't get me 1/10th of what I need to put these servers into the midst of a large network for use in server consolidation, and is utterly useless once we start talking about Open vSwitch and other such SDN components.
So sure, if you're a sandwich shop putting a $500 server under the cash register, or you are a teenage college student setting up a video sharing network for your bro's in the flop house you board in, NetworkManager will work fine for you. For those of us doing anything more complex, it is a useless abomination and the first thing done when bringing up a new server image is "chkconfig NetworkManager off ; service NetworkManager stop". (Or the AbominationD equivalents thereof).
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At least in CentOS and RHEL 7, NetworkManager does VLANs and Bonding and bridges in about 2 clicks. Add interface, choose bonding | VLAN | bridge, and go.
bridged VLAN's (yes, those are a thing)
Set up your VLAN interfaces, bridge them. Not seeing the issue.
And ... and... well, 90% of the other functionality that is offered by the Linux networking stack.
90% of the other functionality isnt relevant 90% of the time. The point of a GUI is to offer the most common options, and from my usage of NM, it does that admirably.
So sure, if you're a sandwich shop putting a $500 server under the cash register, or you are a teenage college student setting up a video sharing network for your bro's in the flop house you board in, NetworkManager will work fine for you.
What about a network engineer who has better things to do than spend more time researching the syntax for setting up tagging o
Re: NetworkManager (Score:2)
Everything you needed to know about configuring an interface you could find with 'less /usr/share/doc/iniscripts*/sysconfig.txt', better than any network device where the configuration cli's built-in help is only useful if you've completed 3 weeks of expensive training courses.
Since about RHEL4, anaconda would have populated the HWADDR variables so devices don't get renamed, although the new approach in udev is probably better.
NetworkManager (in the stable versions of the distros I run) seems to still be in
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That tugboat you call a mouse and the GUI are fine for your desktop, but if I see xorg installed on servers under my control I remove it.
And if the server doesnt have xorg, the discussion is moot. For those that do however, it might as well also have NetworkManager as it makes life simpler.
Obviously I use ssh for most linux connections, but there are times where there is a GUI.
Re: NetworkManager (Score:2)
It's ok for desktops with 1 nic some times. Not so much for any other scenario.
Openstack needs it turned off. As long as I can remove the package and manually set up the network, i'm ok.
There are too many network thing it breaks and too few it fixes.
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Around here, his 3 digit Slashdot ID would be enough, and then some..
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It *should* be fine. But I'm wondering what benefit it brings? NetworkManager was born from a need to simplify network management and automate handovers between networks. These aren't typical scenarios on a server which likely has a fixed network connection and a fixed network setup.
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It may have its warts, but it does what it says on the box.
It absolutely does not do what it "says on the box". I have _never_ had a Linux box have usable networking when NetworkManager was installed. God that piece of crap needs to burn in hell. Forever. It is the most horrible abortion I have seen attached to a Linux box. At least PulseAudio, the next worst abortion works sometimes, now. NetworkManager never works.
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And these are normal activities for an average home user who just want's to be able to watch cat videos at whatever hotspot they happen to be connected to?
The point of tools like this is to simplify things for people who don't know or care about the details - the technological 99% if you will. If you actually know what you're doing there are absolutely far more powerful tools available, should you have the need for them. But would you really want to inflict those eldritch horrors on your grandmother? (the
Re:NetworkManager (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who is deeply familiar with networking but only vaguely familiar with Linux's arcane ways of configuring its network-- which apparently change drastically depending on such things as: /devs to the actual interface
* whether you want it to be per-session (ifconfig)
* or persistent (/etc/DependsOnYourDistro/someFiles)
* whether it should actually persist with the interface rather than how the kernel decides to allocate
and so on-- I am quite happy to see NetworkManager. THere is no reason that setting up a bonded or tagged interface should be more complicated than saying it verbally, or why I should have to fall back to CLI in order to do that.
Heres a fun tip: not everyone wants to be a full-time Linux admin devoted to a particular breed of distro. Some of us have a job in supporting a very wide array of systems, and the less arcane black magic we need to learn for each individual system the better. Historically Linux's networking has been AWFUL, as just a few years ago it was considered normal for a box's IP-to-interface mapping change on reboot because apparently its logical that the OS randomly assign interface IDs to physical interfaces, and there were roughly a hundred different methods and places to configure all of the various networking pieces (resolvers, mac addresses, firewall, bonding, vlans, device/interface mapping).
It boggles my mind that there are people who think that complexity for complexity's sake is a good thing. CLI is wonderful for batch operations that you do every day. GUI is wonderful for things you will do once a month, and dont want to use mental bandwidth for remembering a command.
Re:NetworkManager (Score:4, Informative)
> All you have to know about the NetworkManager abortion is that you can disable the service and remove the packag
It's unfortunately built into most installers toolkits, so it's difficult to avoid completel, and more tools have unnecessary dependencies on it. So deleting it can lead to re-installing it
With RHEL based sysysstems, at least, the simplest way to block it is to put "NM_CONTROLLED=no" in the "/etc/sysconfig/network. That helps ensure it stays disabled, until, and unless you specifically select it for any network port..
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Please forgive my typos in that post: I'm afraid my RSI is acting up today with a new keyboard layout.
Re:NetworkManager (Score:5, Informative)
"With RHEL based sysysstems, at least, the simplest way to block it is to put "NM_CONTROLLED=no" in the "/etc/sysconfig/network. That helps ensure it stays disabled, until, and unless you specifically select it for any network port.."
If NM is installed, even telling it to not control a network interface is insufficient to keep it from interfering with that interface. Just a week ago, I installed a new NIC in a server, configured it manually with NM told to leave it alone. 12 hours later, the server disappeared from the network. It didn't crash, it just disconnected, because NM decided to take over control of the NIC.
Why? Because I had not put the MAC address into the configuration. Seems NM will ignore NM_CONTROLLED=no if you don't tell it the MAC address. So my fixed-IP server suddenly became a dynamic-IP workstation, with DNS pointing to the wrong network and a different gateway.
So, no, I'm not going to leave NM installed on any machine that is NOT moving around the country using WiFi.
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My best guess as to why they would mess with that is they wanted to fix a few issues where the standalone DHCP clients were not re-negotiating when they needed to, and of course they wanted to do it over DBUS. The alternative fix would have been to work with DHCP client projects/maintainers to add pluggable DBUS control interfaces to those, but when given the choice between that and mission creep, mission creep wins these days. Unless they just decided to use the systemd DHCP client they put in there for u
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nmcli, nmtui, nm-tool all use small letters.
Re:NetworkManager (Score:4, Informative)
One of the few unix command line tools whose command begins with a major letter.
Sorry, but there's nothing unix about NetworkManager.
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And GNU/Linux is not UNIX.
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Exactly.
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Is there anything Unix about Gnome? How exactly is this a useful criticism?
Theres also nothing Unix about HTML, or CSS; maybe you're on the wrong website, Geocites is that way.
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NetworkManager
One of the few unix command line tools [...].
Sorry, but there's nothing unix about NetworkManager.
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Here's a command you can use to get all those commands :
bash -c "compgen -c | grep ^[A-Z] | sort"
On my system, I get :
ControlPanel, GET, GMT, HEAD, Mail, MAKEDEV, ModemManager, NetworkManager, POST, R, Rscript, VBoxBalloonCtrl, VBoxClient, VBoxControl, VBoxHeadless, VBoxManage, VBoxSDL, VBoxService, VirtualBox, X, Xephyr, Xorg
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I just checked, it's a dependency for ubuntu-minimal.
So it's installed on every Ubuntu/Mint/....
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(Slashdot filters won't let me post the output from my IRIX system. I get a " Filter error: That's an awful long string of letters there." Fuck you Dice.)
-bash-3.2$ uname -a
SunOS new-host 5.10 Generic_147440-01 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Blade-1500
bash-3.2$ bash -c "compgen -c | grep ^[A-Z] | sort"
CC
CCadmin
ControlPanel
DBMirror.pl
HtmlConverter
Mail
TIMEZONE
-bash-3.2$
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$ bash -c "compgen -c | grep ^[A-Z] | wc -l"
31
$ bash -c "compgen -c | grep ^[a-z] | wc -l"
5893
1% is few for me.
what's wrong with ifconfig? (Score:2, Insightful)
Really, why do we need anything more than ifconfig and ethtool?
Re:what's wrong with ifconfig? (Score:5, Funny)
Those are too simple and reliable. For Linux to compete with mainstream operating systems it needs more complexity and more bugs.
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So systemd will be bundling Network Manager?
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Probably, and probably also pulseaudio.
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Don't forget avahi, which reliably causes shutdown to take o^n time (vs number of network interfaces and ipaliases) to shut down
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So systemd will be bundling Network Manager?
I don't know if it's an out-and-out requirement, but the two packages are very clearly in the same camp.
I stay *far* away from systemd, Network Manager, and PulseAudio. I'm trying to avoid using things like udisks, upower, and Pol(icy)?Kit.
captcha: crimes
Re:what's wrong with ifconfig? (Score:4, Insightful)
On Linux? To connect to WPA2 networks (including WPA2+802.1X). That's an everyday scenario for a pretty much every laptop user.
Sure, you can also do it via cli (with more tools than just those you mentioned), but, do you remember all the steps? Can you teach them to your mum? Can you automate it?
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Sure, you can also do it via cli (with more tools than just those you mentioned), but, do you remember all the steps?
Why remember them? Dump the commands into a script and just run it.
Can you automate it?
No, of course not, because command line tools are the absolute worst for automation. </sarcasm>
That said, if you're dealing with wireless, I'd suggest using wicd [wikipedia.org] instead of either. Less shitty than NetworkManager, less complicated than command line, and it has multiple front-ends including gtk, qt, ncurses, and CLI. I started using it years ago because NM tended to break horribly and every few updates it would lose the ability to co
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On Linux? To connect to WPA2 networks (including WPA2+802.1X). That's an everyday scenario for a pretty much every laptop user.
Sure, you can also do it via cli (with more tools than just those you mentioned), but, do you remember all the steps? Can you teach them to your mum? Can you automate it?
Mandriva/Mageia have net_applet, which is capable of browsing WiFi networks, configuring wpa_supplicant correctly (including access-point roaming), to the point where the normal 'network service' could (depending on your configuration choices) connect to WiFi during boot (before a user is logged in), and be useable for average users.
This was first a useable solution in about 2005, and only stopped working perfectly with the migration to systemd (it still works better than NetworkManager in some respects, bu
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Really, why do we need anything more than ifconfig and ethtool?
The wireless tools complicate everything. Otherwise? Yes. I'd just edit the interface descriptions in /etc/network/interfaces ...
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Most "not power" user simply want their computer to access "the internet" and don't care much about anything in between. NetworkManager does just that: plug the ethernet, you get a working connection. Input a wifi password in a simple, straighforward input dialog, and it works.
I don't know if it was designed explicitely for this usage, but it work wonderfully there. In other scenarios... not so good. On a dev system, or a server, you'll want to remove it. Bet let's not forget the desktop
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And that's really the problem with Linux. It's a great server OS - but in the end, as a desktop OS it just stinks because all the developers scream when you try to "complicate" matters using tools like systemd, NetworkManager, PulseAudio which are essential to make a modern desktop OS.
For networking you need to consider the mobile use case - home user is at home, and firewall is set up to allow services so they
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For VPN support and dynamic network changes, especially with wifi based access.
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Really, why do we need anything more than ifconfig and ethtool?
Ask RedHat since they deemed them not good enough to be used in RHEL anymore. ip is the new hotness.
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If you consider ip to be the new hotness, then you are dating yourself as just another *buntu script kiddie.
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ifconfig doesnt persist changes. Thats also not made obvious to the unfamiliar.
Gotchas like that are why you need NetworkManager.
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NetworkManager has a command line interface. Two actually, a cli tool and one based on curses.
apt-get remove ... (Score:2, Interesting)
So, I want dnsmasq dynamically configured to use special name servers, in addition to and not in lieu of my regular name servers, when, and only when, a certain openvpn tunnel is active, as opposed to other openvpn tunnels I also have. Is this, after a decade of work, feasible using NetworkManager's normal built-in GUI interface? Or does it still cater to only straightforward DHCP wired and wireless use cases, ignoring anything move involved, as it has always done?
I thought so.
Dear distro makers; continue
Configuring VPN DNS in NetworkManager (Score:2)
So, I want dnsmasq dynamically configured to use special name servers, in addition to and not in lieu of my regular name servers, when, and only when, a certain openvpn tunnel is active, as opposed to other openvpn tunnels I also have. Is this, after a decade of work, feasible using NetworkManager's normal built-in GUI interface?
As far as I can tell, you can specify "Additional DNS servers" for one particular VPN, at least in the version of NM included with Xubuntu 14.04 LTS.
When you follow these steps, what happens differently from what you
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Many years from now, when I have reason to replace my working configurations in the normal course of upgrades, I'll give NM another try and let you know.
I note, however, that you cite PPTP instead of OpenVPN. Is this "Additional DNS servers" entry exclusive to PPTP?
Looking in on my configuration, I see that the additional DNS servers added to dnsmasq while a certain tunnel is active are used only for queries that match specific domains. All others queries are sent to the "normal" servers. Why might this
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https://help.ubuntu.com/commun... [ubuntu.com]
network-manager-openvpn
network-manager-vpnc
network-manager-openconnect
network-manager-openvpn-gnome
network-manager-vpnc-gnome
network-manager-openconnect-gnome
Your OpenVPN configuration
Should be interesting (Score:2)
NM has been great over the past 2-3 years, at least as for my usage with KDE. Before that it was pretty unstable in my experience. Not sure what'll change (if anything, too lazy to read the changelog) with the coming update, but I'm sure I'll have it within the week since I run Arch.
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Ran Debian with NM and KDE for the last couple of years as well. Purged it recently in order to remove systemd (NM depends on PolKit which depends on pam-systemd for login session management), and replaced it with WICD.
WiCD is not quite as smooth as NM for usb modems, but for wifi and wired ethernet, it does the job.
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(And I'm working on making the usb modem use cases work more smoothly...)
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Yeah, I especially like the ease of the OpenVPN support (as well as the PPTP support). Makes configuring my work and home vpn trivial -- not that it wasn't before, but it's nice to have all the networking stuff in the same seamless GUI tool.
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Thanks for the tip! I figured it probably could, but the debian build of NM has PolKit as a hard dep, unfortunately. Haven't got around to looking at what it would take to build from source.
In the short term, WiCD is doing 95% of what I need, so I will stick with it.
I hope to be able to contribute something useful, so will either eventually contribute a polkit-averse NM build for debian, or add MBIM support for WiCD.
mask NM (Score:5, Informative)
The most important feature is that it can be disabled, masked and unistalled without loosing functionality, as oppposed to other new TM things that I can't get rid of that easily
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Yes, it has been easier in general to move out of the way than some of the other desktop junk. Some of the automated editing of config files was annoying but at least how to kick it off an interface was easy to find and no other applications were so tangled up with it that they got cranky without it running, unlike avahi which always causes error message spew everywhere when it is down and over the years has been a game of whack-a-mole to keep it killed what with all the different ways it got started.
In ge
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masked and uninstalled without loosing functionality
Except for the functionality which it provides. Something not interesting to neckbeards but critical to about every other year of Linux on desktop user.
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I don't think the OP was making that point. I think he was saying that it's not so tightly coupled with everything else that it can't be removed without losing all kinds of unrelated functionality. I think it was a reference to the systemd fiasco.
Never heard of it (Score:5, Insightful)
And I have been a constant Linux user since 1994. This cannot be too important.
Re:Never heard of it (Score:5, Insightful)
The best software does its job quietly and doesn't need a bunch of attention from the user, allowing your to do your actual work.
Something that seems to be lost on the makers of many other software projects, OSS and commercial.
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The best software does its job quietly and doesn't need a bunch of attention from the user, allowing you to do your actual work. Something that seems to be lost on the makers of many other software projects, OSS and commercial.
Really? Seems to me Microsoft does a wonderful job, considering how many of their users don't know a thing about their computer.
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Not applicable to me, as I always configure my networks manually via /etc/network/interfaces. You know, like people that know what they are doing...
It's totally superfluous (Score:1)
You've probably never hear of it because NetworkManager is quite superfluous in Linux.
TFS says:
It's hard to see how one could simplify Linux networking. It requires one ip addr command to set an IP address and one ip route command to set a default route. And on IPv6 even those are unnecessary, it's automatic.
And
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
10 years for that? (Score:1)
Sounds like the new feature list for Windows XP.
Re: It's totally superfluous (Score:4, Interesting)
oh, does bridging work finally? I spent well over an hour with nmcli docs and on Google trying to setup bridges for each vlan I was using on an el7 machine and got nowhere close to working. Spent 5 min setting up redhat ifcfg- files and was done after yum uninstalling nm. It says that nmcli got some love in 1.0, and boy that's a good thing.
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Yes Bridging via NM works now, and has for a year or two. At least on Fedora systems....
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No, they spent 10 years simplifying things like scanning for wireless access points, detecting the encryption type, and storing credentials. Or setting up routing over Bluetooth. Or configuring and switching between different types of VPNs. Or bridging between multiple interfaces. And having a little icon in your system tray that you can right-click on to do it all.
It took 10 years to do THAT? It acts like they have spent maybe 3 months throwing together some cheap Python scripts that they do not understand. It is a buggy, terrible, network access denying, piece of crap abortion from the pits of hell.
Re:It's totally superfluous (Score:5, Interesting)
> It's hard to see how one could simplify Linux networking. It requires one ip addr command to set an IP address and one ip route command to set a default route. And on IPv6 even those are unnecessary, it's automatic.
And a dns, too. And the wireless network name. And the wireless network username+password.
And then, I have to do it all again in two minutes when you walk out of range. And then again when you get home. And then again at a cafe.
NM might not be the nicest of things, but it sure beats the hell out of running several commands every time I relocate myself/my laptop.
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It presents the same problem as systemd. Take one problem, solving wifi connections, and then make a tool which unnecessarily manages all aspects of networking. dhclient manages to remain long-running and handle the DHCP operations for an interface, all that was needed was the equivalent wifi daemon. Once you step beyond the simplest configurations, Network-Manager has always become an impediment and not an assistant.
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Perhaps a program is also needed to manage resolv.conf, but it doesn't need to be a daemon. Or, if you're willing to use a daemon, you can have a user-space caching resolver, like dnsmasq.
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And the wireless network name. And the wireless network username+password.
And then, I have to do it all again in two minutes when you walk out of range. And then again when you get home. And then again at a cafe.
NM might not be the nicest of things, but it sure beats the hell out of running several commands every time I relocate myself/my laptop.
You really haven't had to do it that way since 2004.
$ man wpa_supplicant.conf
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A couple of scripts could get you the same functionality in a MUCH more reliable manner that does not negatively affect millions of Linux users.
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yeah, because writing a script which can be run by simply clicking on it is so hard for the generation that actually works with their Linux boxes.
There, fixed.
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Indeed. Surreal it is. I do admit that I usually stick to the old commands (now wrappers) like ifconfig and route, unless I need policy-based routing.
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Ive been using Linux since SLS days, even before there was a network stack.
never heard of it either.
obviously it's some tool the kids have put together to solve a problem that BSD's ifconfig solved in the 1980s.
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Yeah, sounds like it. Or maybe some nice, restricted GUI for people that do not understand networking.
I like NetworkManager, but.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Since NetworkManager, day-to-day network use (be it WiFi, wired or whatever) Just Works. I like that.
However, when (as a developer, hardware-tinkerer or network problem solver) you are plugging in and out cables, connecting devices, etc, it would be nice to have NetworkManager to be put on "mute" or something. Just keep my fixed IP on the correct devices and stop enabling and disabling connections. That's the only time I turn the service off.
Parent comment shows exactly what's wrong with NM (Score:1)
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Well, you don't have to figth it. It will autoconfigure just fine after moving the cables. All you need to do is wait the 500ms it takes to do a new DHCP request and get the same IP adress again. If that is too long, you should probably be using a static configuration in the first place.
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One step away from predesigned usage pattern and you are in conflict
This is so typical in Linux world. :(
Stuff has fragile integration and when you step away from the beaten path, weird glitches appear.
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You're an idiot if you put your manual network config in rc.local on an Ubuntu system. If that is your story, I have no problems believing the newbies in your vicinity thought it was difficult.
And since I distinctly remember running Debian+Gnome+NetworkManager in that same timeframe with no problems whatsoever using a static config, I think your problems were more of a PEBCAK nature.
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I'm not going to install a hacked-to-shit Debian install to coddle the typo of morons Shuttleworth seems to think to be a demographic worth mining, no.
No, sorry, I don't like to relate to and empathize with idiots. If that makes me an elitist, so be it. It doesn't take away anything from the fact that I am not going to take anecdotes about Ubuntu fuckups as fact, unlike you. The facts of who is rational here are evident.
That's nice, but.. (Score:1)
Ever heard of Agile? (Score:2)
10 years for version 1.0? Really?
just in time... (Score:2)
to be replaced by systemd.
nm includes dhcp client, systemd also. both are RH projects, wtf.
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User-oriented, not service-oriented (Score:2)
This software is actively hostile in a service-oriented environment - aggressively so. It's possible if one controls all of the network resource allocation systems (dhcp et al), that one can minimize the
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As someone who used to help friends and family set up Linux networking before NetworkManager I very much care.
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He is still running the 2.2 kernel and refuses new hardware for the same reasons