Fedora 21 Released 106
linuxscreenshot writes: The Fedora Project has announced the release of Fedora 21. "As part of the Fedora.next initiative, Fedora 21 comes in three flavors: Cloud, Server, and Workstation. Cloud is now a top-level deliverable for Fedora 21, and includes images for use in private cloud environments like OpenStack, as well as AMIs for use on Amazon, and a new "Atomic" image streamlined for running Docker containers. The Fedora Server flavor is a common base platform that is meant to run featured application stacks, which are produced, tested, and distributed by the Server Working Group. The Fedora Workstation is a new take on desktop development from the Fedora community. Our goal is to pick the best components, and integrate and polish them. This work results in a more polished and targeted system than you've previously seen from the Fedora desktop." Here are screenshots for Fedora 21: GNOME, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, and MATE.
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Your mind, apparently.
It has systemd? (Score:1, Flamebait)
If it has systemd it can get right back into custody.
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Re:It has systemd? (Score:4, Informative)
It's had it since Fedora 15.
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Yup, that's where I'm going. Building a database server and it's going on FreeBSD. I was a loyal Debian user up until this fiasco.
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After more than a decade of trolling, your karma is finally catching up to you. I am very pleased!
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Have fun with that, if you're running a UEFI/GPT based system you can't use ZFS, one of the biggest reasons to use FreeBSD in the first place.
Re:It has systemd? (Score:4, Informative)
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FreeBSD is moving to launchd, maybe you should try plan 9.
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Lol, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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F21 (Score:5, Informative)
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I installed the beta on my laptop several weeks ago and i haven't had much in the way of problems either. But there are a couple of things i still can't get working properly - QGIS and VirtualBox. The QGIS (gdal, really) problem fix will hopefully be pushed soon, and i don't care about VirtualBox any more, as i was forced to use qemu/kvm/virt-manager instead and i prefer it.
yes, it does have systemd (Score:2)
Each of the flavors builds on the "base" set of packages for Fedora. For instance, each flavor uses the same packages for the kernel, RPM, Yum, systemd, Anaconda, and so forth.
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Funny people even ask about it. A lot of posters talk like systemd is a brand new scary thing, when it fact it's been in Fedora for a long time. Two and a half years, if I recall correctly.
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Funny people even ask about it. A lot of posters talk like systemd is a brand new scary thing, when it fact it's been in Fedora for a long time. Two and a half years, if I recall correctly.
Actually, it's been three and a half years. Fedora 15 was the first Fedora with systemd and that was released in May, 2011.
Re: yes, it does have systemd (Score:2)
SystemD was cool and innovative back then. It is now cool to hate and bash it 3 months ago from an article posted here.
Now you're a troll if you talk about benefits and insightful for stiring misgivings. It is political as no one gave a crap until recently
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SystemD was cool and innovative back then. It is now cool to hate and bash it 3 months ago from an article posted here.
Now you're a troll if you talk about benefits and insightful for stiring misgivings. It is political as no one gave a crap until recently
Well, I never gave a crap until it started biting me on the ass.
What inflamed me was people trying to convince me that I was an ungratefui idiot because I like my logfiles out in the open where they can be read without intermediate agencies. Having already endured their approach on other systems.
Fedora Infrastructure: Major service disruption (Score:2)
High traffic due to F21 release: http://status.fedoraproject.org/ [fedoraproject.org]
Fedora 21 Public Active Mirrors: http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/21/ [fedoraproject.org]
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Minimalist? Gnome? You're joking, right?
If you want to be a minimalist, run ratpoison or something similar. There's several to chose from. Or even xfce. But not Gnome.
There is not one good thing I can think of to say about Gnome3. Gnome2 made KDE4 look bad, but Gnome3 made it look good. (Mind you, KDE3 was better than any of the aforesaid.) When Gnome2 left the repository I dithered between xfce and KDE4 (and LXDE and...) but finally settled on KDE4 due mainly to a printer management issue, and a li
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Yes.
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lol.. since when is gnome, nevermind gnome 3 considered minimalist?
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Their installation starts Network Manager then explains that if this isn't a laptop installation it is better to not use it.
The installer has used Network Manager for many releases and has doesn't say not to use it outside laptops. Not really sure where you got that from. I use NM on most of my machines - the only place I don't always use it is when I need a network bridge for VMs.
Systemd explains that their binary log format will get corrupted. As if that was acceptable.
not sure it's wise to even touch this one but will is a touch strong. While it's not impossible for journald'd logs to get corrupted, it's no more likely than most other files in the filesystem.
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Welcome to traditional BSD partition tables... Dedicated /var/log partitions ftw.
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Solaris = /export/home
To this day, I still use a dedicated /var, /var/www, /var/lib/mysql or /var/log filesystem (depending on application) as it helps ensure that the fs doesn't get overrun by logs/data. The whole idea of a "one size fits all" lvm configured rootfs makes me shudder in horror.
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of course it doesn't. it has sensible maximum file sizes (both in terms of absolute size and percentage of the filesystem they're on).
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> "While it's not impossible for journald'd logs to get corrupted, it's no more likely than most other files in the filesystem."
*cough* BULLSHIT! *cough*
- Laptop failure to resume from suspend = corrupted logs
- Power loss or hard off on systems = corrupted logs
- Too long a log retention = corrupted logs
From an amazon cloud server running RHEL7 last couple of weeks: /var/log/journal/2dd5724e1e1542fc9a4aa75nov26cc150/system@f0282a3cd24344648a0bbe3a801ead66-000000000001b5d4-0004cf
File corruption detected at
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it doesn't 'clean' anything. it switches to a new file, and whenever you read the journal, reads as much data as it can from the corrupted file.
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And what is your point? Any file that is not written to the hard disk will be currupted on power loss. And, in case you didn't noticed, all files on a computer are binary.
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And what is your point? Any file that is not written to the hard disk will be currupted on power loss. And, in case you didn't noticed, all files on a computer are binary.
And a human brain can make some sense out of a corrupted text logfile that no program ever could.
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Really? Maybe I give you my 10 years old hard disk with my old pictures. Maybe you can restore them with your super brain.
Joking besides, a binary format is more terse then a text format, meaning on a corruption less data is corrupted.
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SystemD has a "journal" that is sensitive to unexpected shutdowns. The purpose of a journal is to protect from corruption. You'd think they would use a data structure that is safe from unexpected interruptions.
Yep and thats why it's irresponsively for any server admin to not pipe journald output straigt into rsyslogd, and thats how it is with all of the "systemd" selling points.
Journald was introduces as a hack to workaround the rare edge case where systemd needs to write a log entry about a syslogd crash and sort of grew into the one true log system with 1/10 of the features and none of the reliance of more modern syslog deamons.
It's not that systemd is bad pr see it that is being sold by morons to morons
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It's readily apparent you haven't even used Fedora in years. So why bother commenting on it? Systemd has been in Fedora for over two and a half years. You're a little late to the whining party. I highly doubt you've even used PulseAudio before. PulseAudio has pretty much just worked for several years now (yes it was a disruptive change at the time) and I for one am extremely glad to have it. It makes audio in Linux not suck. Don't know what world you live in, but it appears to be stuck a few years ago
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> "It's readily apparent you haven't even used Fedora in years."
Actually, I've been grumbling about it since Fedora 15, but I just never gave up grumbling about it because I am forced to use it for my work. I currently run F20 on a workstation for managing various systems both in the cloud and managed in a local series of VMWare clusters. I use Fedora because it helps me maintain a step ahead of the stuff coming "down the pipe" to Redhat.
> "but at least for enterprise distros like RHEL, standard sysl
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Note that PulseAudio and Jack serve different purposes. Use whichever one supports your needs at that moment. PA happily gets out of Jack's way when you need to do some real-time audio processing.
Jack serves all purposes except one really, low power consumption and massive/varying buffers.
Having multiple devices and multiples streams is an awesome feature that brings Linux a little bit more feature parity with Windows.
We've had that with jack long before pulseaudio was even a thought
There were serious design issues with pulseaudio when first released, I'd seen some of the discussions between poettering (pulse) and davis (jack) it was pretty clear that poettering was winging it without anywhere near as much of a clue about the various design considerations of it all.
Overall the project screamed of "not invented here", there were
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Once its installed and running it's fine though.
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"This means it wont find and grubify existing OS installs, including windows. "
No, it doesn't. We test that. It works fine. It uses os-prober, see /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober .
Fedora release story (Score:1)
Let the hatefest begin!
But will it be stable? (Score:2)
I have been using Fedora since FC3. Used to use Mandrake before that. I'll have to check 21 out tonight, but my gut feeling is that it's not going to go so well. I believe the last version of Fedora that was rock-solid stable and had support for pretty much anything I threw at it was FC18. For the sake of diversity, I run Ubuntu (XFCE) on my desktop at home, FC20 (XFCE) at work, and CentOS5 and CentOS6 on all the servers I'm involved in.
One of the botches I believe FC team did was when they changed the
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Yeah, installation's as painful as ever. But apart from that F21 is fine. I've been using the beta since it was released and haven't had any major problems. (I've been using Fedora since it was RH4).
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As far as partitioning this new distro is simplic
Fedora 20 upgrade comments (Score:3, Interesting)
The server/workstation/cloud flavor thing is lame especially given you can't ever switch. Why can't we just pick software we want and be done with it?
The ultra-modern ultra-spartan mobile meme website sucks. Impossible to find anything without hitting from goggle. You declutter and hide everything predictable result is nobody can find anything.
Upgrade from F20 added a firewall daemon that fucked up my iptables configuration.
Quick check using nmap shows something new listening on port 9090 some "cockpit" management BS. This is really what I want in my life is a management web server.. right up there on my Christmas wish list next to a Supermicro IPMI module.
Upgrade was "stuck" at the end with a message saying writing logs and then we'll reboot.. this is just below a cool ascii hotdog man mascot... This writing logs thing appears to have been quite busy writing a copy of every system log entry since dawn of civilization to a new file labeled /var/log/upgrade.log ... after about an hour and 400mb log file.. I finally said F this and rebooted.
Hey I can't complain too much upgrade actually worked and it actually booted. The only reason I upgraded is because if I don't then updates stop working after about a year... I really need to bite the bullet one day and switch to a distribution that does not worship at the church of bleeding edge.
Anymore it is akin to improving design of electrical sockets... sure you might make them "better" in some way but dealing with associated change is a net negative value prop considering what the system is used for.
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Choosing the Server product on upgrade will install the Server packages, including its firewall configuration and Cockpit, because...that's Server. If you just want to keep the existing packages you have installed, choose 'nonproduct'. You can remove Cockpit if you don't want it.
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The server/workstation/cloud flavor thing is lame especially given you can't ever switch. Why can't we just pick software we want and be done with it?...
You can choose a different flavor by using the yum command. There is a even simpler way to convert a Fedora Cloud instance to Fedora Server. Just install cloudtofedora package and run cloudtofedora command.
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I really need to bite the bullet one day and switch to a distribution that does not worship at the church of bleeding edge.
That, and stop complaining about a product that is clearly advertised as being bleeding edge.
I upgraded from F20 via fedup and these instruction, and had zero problems: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki... [fedoraproject.org]
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They took down the Pirate Bay (Score:2)
Where is the Cinnamon desktop? (Score:1)
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There isn't one, the Cinnamon maintainer doesn't want to make one, for some reason. You can install from the 'Server' netinst and choose the Cinnamon package set, though, that'll work fine.
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Correct, it's not considered to be one of the Products. It's just Fedora.
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Please continue to post regularly
More Dependencies! (Score:1)
Hurray! More 0pointer dependencies that need rpm -e --nodeps on!
If it weren't for stable RHEL6.X and XFCE, I'd have dumped Fedora back in version 15, but this latest version 21 (codename /dev/null ) is really making me contemplate it again.
Anyone got a suggestion for a distro without so much dep crap?
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What dependencies are these? You imply you've used recent versions of Fedora. But I can't think of any major, disruptive, 0pointer software dependencies that have been added in the latest release. systemd? Fedora 15. Pulseaudio? Fedora 14. firewalld? Fedora 18. (Firewalld can be removed easily; just yum remove it). No new 0pointer stuff here.
So I don't know what you're talking about here, and I suspect you don't either. Hoping to score some cheap points? You're a bit late with the hate.
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Lennart doesn't have anything to do with firewalld, FWIW.
running great since alpha - only one issue (Score:3)
Installed since Alpha, using full time since Beta. No major issues - just lxdm user switch doesn't work [fedoraforum.org]. Hope it is fixed in final release.
Switched to lightdm, so not checked lxdm issue yet.
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Why did you get rid of the "Everything" DVD image that Fedora 20 had?
The Desktop version of 21 is a live image. The Server version of 21 has no GUI.
What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine and don't want it to be a live image?
Yes that is originally what I thought but once i selected the KDE spin and installed it along with the software I wanted I actually ended up with approx 4.1GB in "/" which is a huge reduction from my Fedora 20 DVD installation of 9GB. In addition it took me only about 90 minutes to actually download the "spin", create a bootable USB stick, install, customise, add additional software and update.
Fedora 20 actually took over 4 hours to do the same thing but without a reasonable speed network you would be ha
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"What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine and don't want it to be a live image?"
Use Server. The Server network install image is the canonical thing to use for non-live installs of any kind, basically use it just as you'd use the netinst.iso in previous releases.
We're aware this sounds a bit weird, sorry about that. I can give you the *extremely* long version if you like, but the short version is that when it came to actually *implementing* the Product stuff there were the kinds of 'oh, so that doesn't