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Education Programming Linux

Harvard's CompSci Intro Course Boasts Record-Breaking Enrollment 144

alphadogg writes: Harvard College's CS50, the school's Introduction to Computer Science course for undergrads, has attracted about 1 in 8 students this fall — a new record for the school and yet another sign of just how hot this field is becoming for the job-hungry. Overall, 818 undergrads (or 12% of the student body) signed up for the challenging course this semester (PDF), and nearly 900 students are registered when factoring in graduate and cross-registered students. Topics on the syllabus include Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript. David Malan, a Harvard CompSci grad, teaches the course.
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Harvard's CompSci Intro Course Boasts Record-Breaking Enrollment

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  • I seem to recall that's havard's policy, more or less.

    • I need a job, I program.

  • by TechyImmigrant ( 175943 ) on Friday September 12, 2014 @03:12PM (#47892925) Homepage Journal

    >Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript.

    That's computer science?

    What about algorithm complexity analysis, type theory, normal forms and well, computer science.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by SirGeek ( 120712 )

      What about teaching "Data Structures and Algorithm Design", C/Pascal/Assembly Language ?

      Linux != Comp Sci ...

      This is why we have a generation of "programmers" who's solution to a problem is "throw more RAM into the system" instead of fixing their crappy code.

      • by i kan reed ( 749298 ) on Friday September 12, 2014 @03:19PM (#47892967) Homepage Journal

        Because it's 101 and not 201?

        • by Anonymous Coward

          Eh...it's actually CS50, not even 101.

      • When my community college could afford to renew the Microsoft site licenese for Visual Studio, the CIS department switched over to Java for all the courses. The Linux instructor fought back by teaching C/C++ and shell scripting in his UNIX administration classes.
        • C and C++ no longer have any place in basic CS education. Sorry, we are at the point where it's more efficient to generate C than to write it. And since C++ is just generated C with really, really arcane syntax for this compile-time generation, C++ lost its purpose, too. There are more expressive (ie, easier to read) and less error-prone methods for generating C code now. It's finally becoming yesterday's news. The whole reason you see "resurgence" of C is that people are not writing it. They are gene
    • by Trepidity ( 597 ) <delirium-slashdotNO@SPAMhackish.org> on Friday September 12, 2014 @03:19PM (#47892971)

      It seems to be structured as kind of an intro to programming, which is one way CS101 classes (in Harvard terminology, CS50) are structured. Not really an intro to CS the discipline, but a broad intro to computers/programming in general for people who may or may not go into CS. Traditionally MIT took the opposite approach, but many schools took this approach.

      Fwiw, you can find the 2013 version of the curriculum here [cs50.tv] (it seems to have been also co-offered as a MOOC). It does seem a bit like a grab-bag of "random stuff in computers".

    • by Anonymous Coward

      It's an introductory course. They'll get to the real stuff later on. Contrary to popular belief among theoretical computer scientists, almost no compsci students without hands on experience are any good. Like a blind man painting, you know.

      • by chubs ( 2470996 )
        But the course is titled "an introduction to computer science". Why then does the curriculum of the course not introduce the students to any topics in computer science (except, of course, cryptography). We're not saying an introductory course should go in-depth about any topic in computer science, but it should introduce the field.

        If I were a freshman and unsure if I should go into CS or CIT, I would want to take an introductory course for each and have them be sufficiently different for me to make an ed
    • by Matheus ( 586080 )

      (FIRST Rant: Since I wasn't asked for the damn CAPTCHA getting the message that I didn't confirm I was a human and throwing away my whole freaking novel of a post makes me think that the /. devs *really need to take this intro course again... grr...)

      Honestly some of that list fits in an intro course but with clarification.. I certainly hope that's not an exhaustive list tho! Everything on that list should be "as well as" not core topics.

      Linux: These kids, even these days, have a high probability of never ha

    • by chubs ( 2470996 )

      Linux, cryptography, HTML and JavaScript.

      That's computer science?

      Cryptography is. The rest isn't.

      • If you don't think Javascript is computer science, you either don't know Javascript or don't know computer science.

      • JavaScript (or any language in which string values and language symbols are interchangeable) is more important to know now than C. C can generated. And it's quickly getting to the point where that's all it's good for -- being auto generated. It is just text after all.
    • by johanwanderer ( 1078391 ) on Friday September 12, 2014 @04:10PM (#47893339)
      It's CS50. It's not even a 100-level classes. This is their way of saying, pay us $X for 3 course credits and see if you would even like to continue down this path.

      The title should be: 1 in 8 Harvard students hopelessly undecided about Computer Science.
      • by AthanasiusKircher ( 1333179 ) on Friday September 12, 2014 @09:37PM (#47895071)

        It's CS50. It's not even a 100-level classes. This is their way of saying, pay us $X for 3 course credits and see if you would even like to continue down this path.

        You obviously haven't bothered to look into Harvard's course numbering system (or credit system). Like just about everything else at Harvard -- from their wacko GPA system that had 15 points (instead of the usual 4.0) until recent years to the fact that they have a "concentration" instead of a "major" -- their course numbers aren't like elsewhere.

        If you want to see their CS offerings, look here [harvard.edu].

        Basically, in Harvard's numbering system (which varies a bit by department), 0-99 are often undergraduate offerings, 100-199 are courses that could be taken by both undergraduates and grads, and 200+ are graduate-only classes. (Some departments with a lot of courses change the numbering so that the undergrad/grad courses start at 1000 instead of 100, and graduate courses start at 2000.)

        In many departments it's uncommon to take anything numbered 100 or above until your junior year (maybe earlier in CS, looking at their course offerings). So, saying this course is numbered 50 isn't saying much. In most departments, the generic courses for non-majors are often in the 1-10 or 1-20 range.

        And as for credits -- notice the catalog lists this as a "half course," from the old system where most Harvard students would enroll in courses that would last a full year (two semesters = "full course"). Harvard doesn't charge by the credit hour like a community college or state university might. They basically have a set tuition rate per semester and you're expected to take "four half courses" per term, five if you're ambitious. (You can take more -- generally for the same tuition -- but I believe it requires special overrides.)

        The title should be: 1 in 8 Harvard students hopelessly undecided about Computer Science.

        I have no doubt that some students are in fact taking this class to "try out" computer stuff, but it's hard to tell what those stats mean. Also, Harvard has a "gen ed" distribution requirement, and CS50 satisfies one of those distribution requirements. So, I'd imagine the bigger draw is "learn something in computers" AND "satisfy some stupid requirement," rather than "hmm... maybe I'll try computer science..."

        Anyhow, I know you (and most people here) didn't need to know that much about Harvard's wacko systems... but this post shouldn't be "+5 Informative" when it's based on wrong information.

        • Also, by the way, I don't think we should derive any conclusions about "hot fields" from Harvard's enrollment numbers.

          Until the past couple years, one of the top two biggest courses at Harvard was "Justice," with enrollments upwards of 800 students. I don't think that was a signal that hoards of Harvard students were going to become political philosophers -- it just had a reputation for a good lecturer and satisfied the right distribution requirement.

          Similarly, a few years back another course with 800+

    • by Beck_Neard ( 3612467 ) on Friday September 12, 2014 @04:22PM (#47893413)

      If you teach kids theory, people object that they're not being taught 'practical things'. If you teach them how to use popular software (like JavaScript), people object that they're not being taught enough theory.

      You can't win.

      • So call it a 'programming' course. Computer science marginally overlaps with programming, but a programming course is not computer science.

        While we're at it, we could stop calling Computer Science a science and admit it's applied mathematics with silicon thrown in.

      • by CODiNE ( 27417 )

        And like the old Nature vs Nurture argument, the answer is ... a bit of both.

      • Algorithmic complexity is both practical and theoretical. If you don't know it, you should learn it.
      • You can't win.

        Students would be crazy to enter the CS field. You have employers demanding vast experience for "entry level" positions, and then that experience has to contain a long checklist of languages and methodologies. Then they face an employer who will always be looking for a way to find a cheaper H1B replacement for their American employee (regardless if they have less experience and knowledge). After that, a dozen years later their skills are "out of date" and job hunting becomes difficult - after their employer

    • I can shed some light on this.

      This course is an introductory course for non-majors. That's why it's not like "Intro to Computer Science."

      The big deal with Harvard's CS50 course isn't that everyone wants to enroll in computer science, but that it is being taught in a very unorthodox way. Students have the option of attending lectures or watching video lectures online. There is a great deal of supplementary online material. They have all night coding sessions with food and games which are sponsored by bus

    • Really? I just thought that was something one picked at birth. No, really, is that even a form of knowledge? I just find these to be self evident. Often find it surprising that trivialities have names behind them when people start talking about them as fields of knowledge.
  • by Trepidity ( 597 ) <delirium-slashdotNO@SPAMhackish.org> on Friday September 12, 2014 @03:15PM (#47892937)

    Harvard gets far, far more applicants in every area than they can possibly accept to their relatively small student body. So shifts among disciplines and interests almost entirely reflect decisions on the part of Harvard admissions policies. They don't necessarily reflect shifts in either broader society or even the subset of society that applies to Harvard. It's possible they do, but it's also possible Harvard explicitly decided to accept more CS applicants for various reasons.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Imagine you are in a dark room and have a bag filled with cubes, spheres and pyramids. You're instructed to pick ten cubes out of the bag, which you then do. Then the lights come on, and it turns out you've picked one red cube, one green one, and eight blue ones.

      Of course, it's entirely possible the lights at the admissions office were on all along, but it isn't necessarily the case that it was.

      • by Trepidity ( 597 )

        Isn't it pretty explicit that the lights are on? Review of applications isn't some kind of blind-review process.

        • In the sense that they had access to all relevant information, yes, the lights were on. In the sense that that information influenced their decision, the lights could have been off. The facts that predict future enrollment in intro to computer science are not necessarily the facts that weighed in the decision concerning admittance. Some of those facts probably were considered, others probably weren't.

        • by metlin ( 258108 )

          I am willing to bet that the average analytical skill and critical thinking ability of a Harvard freshman would far exceed that of most Slashdotters.

  • What was that my Comp Sci friend was quoting, something about Computer Science is as much about computers as Astronomy is about telescopes?

    • That's true, in the theoretical sense. Algorithms can be described in English or in mathematical notation. Runtime complexity of an algorithm can be calculated by hand. Most often, we want a way to also evaluate those algorithms, to take measurements on their behavior, and to understand them more intuitively. Computers are useful for that, but only if there's have a way to give them instructions. It follows that a student must be taught the rudiments of programming to have an automated method to explore the
  • When I went back to community collge to get an associate degree in computer programming after the dot com bust, everyone told me I was crazy as healthcare was the money major. I went to school for five years on a part-time basis from 2002 to 2007 while working full-time. I couldn't get classes at the beginning because they were full, and couldn't get classes towards the end because they weren't enough students. I became a help desk technician shortly thereafter.

    The long term trends back then was that the ba

    • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

      CS is for programming. Not IT and definitely not helpdesk. And not vaguely defined "security" jobs. If you want to program, there's a negative unemployment rate in some parts of the country right now and has been for a few years- there's more jobs than people if you have some skill. If you don't want to program or get a phd and do research, its a useless degree. Formerly IT included a lot more programming as systems were highly customized and home built. Now IT is cheap and getting cheaper, because a

      • You're overlooking one small detail: I never claimed that I was programmer. Having a background in computer programming allows me to better solve problems as a help desk technician, a desktop support technican, and now a security support specialist. Not only do I know how to put hardware together, I know how to put software together. A skill that is sorely lacking in most Fortune 500 IT departments.

        Who do you think will write the scripts? Not some CS graduate with a stick up his ass.

        • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

          So you don't want to join the highly lucrative job that requires your degree, but you want to join a job where the demand is decreasing and can be more easily outsourced. Not to mention- wtf does a "security support specialist" do? I have 15 fucking years in this field and I could only make a vague guess. A websearch for "define security support specialist" basically had 2 solid definition- one is a guy the sherriff's office was looking to hire that ran the fingerprinting software for booking, the other

          • The only person complaining about my associate degree is YOU. I'm quite satisified with my second associate degree, which Uncle Sam paid for with a $3,000 tax credit, and making the college president's list for maintaining a 4.0 GPA in my major. (I earned my first associate degree in general education after graduating from the eight grade and skipping high school.) Perhaps you're trying to compensate for something, say, a lack of rigor?

            Not to mention- wtf does a "security support specialist" do?

            I work on a team of 20 security specialists responsible for 80,000 Windo

            • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

              So you're a sys admin who specializes in reghosting machines when the auto-updater fails? (Because actually spending the time to fix each machine would be a huge waste of resources over just ghosting a fresh image or rolling to a backup and reinstalling)? Someone needs to do it but I wouldn't give it a fancy title. Much less one with security in it- nothing in there has anything to do with security, its general administration stuff.

              • Fixing each system is a lot faster than re-imaging each system. That would be a huge waste of resources. Everything is done remotely in the background without inconveniencing the user. A typical fix takes 15 to 30 minutes. My team fixes 1,000 systems per week.

                • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

                  Ghosting takes minutes. Even doing analysis to figure out what's wrong would take far more than the entire process. And if you really have everything automated to the point it can be done in 15-30 minutes, then there's no human input at all- your job is a script that can run nightly on each machine, with 1 guy to update the files the script pulls.

                  • Re-imaging a system takes a minimum of four hours. You have to track down the location of the system. You have to browbeat the user into surrendering the system for most of the day. You may have to backup multiple user profiles (some systems have 200+ users and 50GB+ of data). The re-imaging process takes ten minutes. And then you have transfer the user profiles back, return the system to the user, and field phone calls for a month as the user(s) nitpick over the system as they believe you broke something.

                    M

                    • When I was a grad student, part of my job was running the security lab. I could reimage the entire lab(about 75 machines) in less than 15 minutes.

                      Lab computers with NO USER DATA can be reimaged in 15 minutes. I have imaged 3,000+ brand new computers for various PC refresh projects, but transferring gigabytes of USER DATA between computers still take time. Users tend to get upset if their data goes missing.

                      You are incompetent and inept, which is what people with multiple AA degrees are.

                      So says the Anonymous Coward with lab experience and no real world experience.

                      At least get an AS degree if you are going to stay in the kiddie pool.

                      I have an A.A. degree in General Education (1994) and a A.S. in Computer Programming (2007). You can only have one A.A. degree but multiple A.S. degrees from the community

  • by parbot ( 629557 ) on Friday September 12, 2014 @03:22PM (#47892993)
    You can watch all the lectures online at http://cs50.tv/ [cs50.tv] .
  • I am shocked 7 out of 8 Harvard grads have not taken introduction to computer science.
    • You don't seriously expect English majors to read code?
    • So every one of them would know how to calculate the left limit and right limit as x approaches zero for the function y = sin(3x)/x. But would still treat their computing devices as black boxes, learn enough to map to know what to do make it do something, but would not have a fundamental grasp of why the computer does what it does.
  • Did they mention how many were women?
    • by Bigbutt ( 65939 )

      Not in the .pdf. I am curious as well though.

      [John]

    • What would be more interesting : Compare what percentage of women vs men that took cs50 decide to take the next class. Then compare what percentage of women and men drop the next class. - I have a feeling these sugary overview classes do little to encourage people to pursue real computer science in the long run because the support structure is not in place at the higher level. - If I am wrong, and the later classes have changed to encourage people to stay interested that would be a really big step in the ri
  • by peter303 ( 12292 ) on Friday September 12, 2014 @03:54PM (#47893227)
    I dont think it the reason is purely vocational (jobs). Young people know computers run the world and contribute to the human intellectual enterprise. Larry Summers tried to strengthen the S&E requirement for a Harvard degree (he was in my MIT class) and the faculty rebuffed him. MITs required six S&E courses for a degree makes them more liberal (broadly educated) in my opinion than Harvard.

    P.S. Computing is NOT one of the six MIT S&E requirements yet. But it comes up everytime the requirments are reviewed.
    • Is Larry Summers TOO BIG TO FAIL ? Economic council ? Quietly leaves ? Let the bailout and quantitative easing QE flow ....print, print, print. Larry summers should be a banker not ?
  • I'm assuming they're talking about the physical on-campus version of CS50 right?

    I'm very slowly working through the online version of the course (2 little kids who don't sleep + nothing but crap on TV = bite sized chunks of academic goodness) and it's a really good intro. I guess my question is this - how many people are going into this thinking they're going to be the next iPhone app billionaire? How many people actually want to learn the fundamentals and build a solid knowledge base that will help them ge

    • I saw this same jump in enrollment in CS towards the end of the dotcom boom, and that was even before everyone was carrying around computers in their pockets.

      I went back to school beween 2002 and 2007 on a part-time basis while working full-time to learn computer programming. The market for IT classes was still hot and most classes had waiting lists in 2002. Healthcare became the new money major that everyone chased after. When I graduated five years later, all my required courses for graduation were cancelled as they weren't enough students and took them as independent study classes. Back then everyone had laptops in their backpacks.

  • The challenge isn't registering for the course but actually passing the course. My undergrad used an equivalent Computer Science intro course as a weed out course for the entire college of engineering. Did a pretty effective job of it too.
  • by plsuh ( 129598 ) <plsuh@@@goodeast...com> on Friday September 12, 2014 @04:34PM (#47893489) Homepage

    Folks,

    My son took the course last year as a senior in high school via iTunesU.

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/co... [apple.com]

    It's also available on EdX.

    https://www.edx.org/course/har... [edx.org]

    Heck, I took it way back thirty-odd years ago. :-)

    Also, here's a link to the original article in the Harvard Crimson:

    http://www.thecrimson.com/arti... [thecrimson.com]

    --Paul

  • They should take Economic Bubbles 101. In the past whenever there was a spike in CS enrollment, a bubble burst. We had the vid game bubble in the early 80's leading to the "ET cartridge landfill", the AI bubble that popped at the start of the general '91 recession (unemployed Lisp programmers are a scary lot), and then the Dot Com bubble.

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