The Linux Counter Relaunches 113
psychonaut writes "Long-term readers of Slashdot may be familiar with The Linux Counter, which attempts to measure (through surveys and statistics) the number of people using GNU/Linux operating systems. The project started in 1993 and shot to fame six years later, largely as a result of three Slashdot articles (two of which brought the Counter to its knees). After four years of stagnation, project founder Harald Tveit Alvestrand has handed over the reins to a new maintainer, Alexander Mieland. Over the past few months, Mieland has completely redeveloped the project, with a modernized design and support facilities (including a bug tracker, mailing list, RSS feed, and Twitter account). The New Linux Counter is now up and running, with all the data for active users from the old counter. The old site will continue to operate for a time but will soon be shut down and requests redirected to the new site."
A few suggestions for the new maintainer (Score:5, Insightful)
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They have a script which uses sendmail to update your information. That's unacceptable in a desktop setting.
If you think about it, back in those days most distros that I'm aware of included sendmail by default, so it sort of makes sense to use what was there.
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The script works just fine using a properly configured /etc/nail.rc file and /bin/mail on my Mandriva system.
If you use GMail like I do, some special configuration is needed:
set smtp=smtp.gmail.com:587
set smtp-use-starttls
set from=USERNAME@gmail.com
set smtp-auth-user=USERNAME
set auth-login=USERNAME
set smtp-auth-password=PASSWORD
You may need to provide a link to /usr/bin/sendmail if /etc/alternatives does not already do that.
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Almost all distros install an MTA by defaul. Also, almost no distro set it by default in a configuration that would make that script work. On most computers setting the MTA for that isn't even a wise thing to do.
I'd be happy if the counter provided an HTTP based script. It could use the same code, just need to create a page that gets the POST data and gives it to the code that currently parses the emails.
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They have a script which uses sendmail to update your information. That's unacceptable in a desktop setting.
If you think about it, back in those days most distros that I'm aware of included sendmail by default, so it sort of makes sense to use what was there.
These days most systems have Perl, curl, wget and stuff like that. Security using OAuth is simple. Identification using OpenID is simple. They could change their machine update script to use https to send the details of my machine. I'd prefer all of that to the current system.
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Same here, mod parent insightful!
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PHP Upgrade failed (Score:2)
Opps
Already Slashdotted (Score:5, Funny)
The project started in 1993 and shot to fame six years later, largely as a result of three Slashdot articles (two of which brought the Counter to its knees)
Here's to keeping the tradition alive!
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Pointless... (Score:3)
...as long as it works, who cares how many people use it?
Re:Pointless... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I just don't have the time or the inclination to wr
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I care.
Also those manufacturers of complex hardware like Nvidia might care, so that they can justify putting the resources aside to develop Linux drivers.
If Nvidia gave a hoot about linux they would open-source the 3D driver or at least provide specs and docs to the nouveau project. I no, I seriously don't think they need to be told by LiCo how many people use linux. They Know!
FWIW: LiCo smells like amateur-hour. Too bad!
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The first thing they will ask is "where did this number come from?". The 29 million users estimate appears to be the ratio of new registered users multiplied by an old estimate from 2001. It seems like a very unreliable figure. I've been using Linux as my main desktop since 1996, I've installed hundreds of servers, several desktops, and I've never heard of this Linux Counter site before now. I would imagine most Linux users have also never heard of this site... and now it appears on Slashdot, registrations
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The reason I don't offer Linux is because every 6 months your drivers break
No they don't.
I've been running Fedora for the last 5 years on my desktop machine, which I use for my business administration as well as personal use, so it's pretty mission critical. In five years, I've only once had my "drivers break", and that was because I was trying the ATI Catalyst drivers rather than the free drivers from my distro. Using the drivers from the distro, I've always had a functioning system. This is something that Just Works. Printer, webcam, bluetooth headsets, audio cards, all work out
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Quite a few care, obviously.
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...as long as it works, who cares how many people use it?
It becomes much easier to attract money and talent if your "product" has a market of some measurable size.
The Moz Foundation gets 97% of its funding through the add-click --- from its placement on the Windows desktop, for all practical purposes.
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. Despite all that and people constantly saying dumb things that aren't true like "linux is for geeks" or "linux is hard" or "linux is for technical people" when in reality it depends on the version.
Its gotten better, but those phrases still, sadly, stand. Perhaps I'm bitter because I'm once again fishing for a decent distro (anyone have anything to say about Aptosid?), but Linux still isn't as easy to use as OS X or Windows. Sure, its more versatile and powerful, but that is something that only matters to geeks and technical people.Yes, the days of spending hours hand writing config files has passed (though not completely, no distro will support sound over HDMI on an Ion chip without messing with AL
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Well said, mostly. Linux is great, very functional but it does require some fiddling around every now and then. Though it tends to support my hardware better than Windows, historically. WiFi out of the box is often a problem, but it's not that much better in Windows unless you happen to have an installation CD for your wireless card. Windows also tends to not recognize VIA audio drivers on every other computer.
Your complaints about the file system, though, were odd. Why would it suck for the average user? I
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Your complaints about the file system, though, were odd.
The /home versus everything else bit makes a ton of sense. But when it breaks down further to /var, /etc, /xyz it gets more opaque. It all makes sense from a purely practical view, but for people without years of Unix-like experience it seems rather odd and arbitrary.
Regarding your distro hunting, if you liked Ubuntu, try Mint.
Right now I'm trying KDE shoehorned onto the Xfce version of Mint Debian (quickly, come out with KDE Debian!), so far I'm liking it, though KDE isn't nearly as polished as in the Opensuse, Ubuntu, or vanilla Mint versions (obviously). Why KDE? I'm scared of when I'm forced to use Gnome Shell, and I personally don't like Xfce (its nice and light, but perhaps a bit too sparse. I loved OpenSuse, but also loved the idea of a rolling release, but Tumbleweed choked, and eventually decided to cease letting me update files, also apt is one of the sexiest things in the world. So far I'm happy with the experience, but I'd much prefer a native KDE version, I'm having a hard time remembering what features make it generally pleasant in other versions.
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The /home versus everything else bit makes a ton of sense. But when it breaks down further to /var, /etc, /xyz it gets more opaque. It all makes sense from a purely practical view, but for people without years of Unix-like experience it seems rather odd and arbitrary.
System files always seem odd and arbitrary at first. Open C:\Windows so you can make a proper comparison to / and you'll see it's pretty much the same, if not worse. Plus, my point is that regular users shouldn't be going through system files, so all you should really see is /home, making it far cleaner and simpler than the mess Windows tends to make. The problem with Linux, from an average user perspective, is not the filesystem layout itself, but that we are often forced to navigate it in search of some o
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. The problem with Linux, from an average user perspective, is not the filesystem layout itself, but that we are often forced to navigate it in search of some obscure config files and plugin folders. This is improving steadily, if not rapidly.
I suppose this is the root (har har) of my point. I still have to go poke around finding various config files, where in Windows, or OS X, I pretty much can let the system handle itself outside of rare extreme emergencies.
Isn't it fully compatible with Debian repositories, like Mint is with Ubuntu's?
It is, but both vanilla Mint and Ubuntu though in very nice tweaks to make it play nicer, and trying to hunt them all down (some of which aren't hiding in Debian repos) is a pain. OpenSuse (the best KDE distro, barring the Tumbleweed issue I had) fully integrates gtk into KDE, providing a
People who use it (Score:2)
Good PR for Linux in the tech world... (Score:3)
Of the three computers I have (not including gaming consoles and my phone running linux), all of them are either single, double, or triple boot optioned with a linux distro as one of the options.
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.. but I've seen many of my friends and colleagues switch over to a Linux distro ..
I would advise you to take a harder look; whole universities, companies and public sectors of entire states have been using Linux for years now.
Actually I do not think there are many universities that don't- most started with some package from RedHat provided support and uptime, but soon learned how to do it themselves. Companies would just use anything that works, but most DTP ones I know go for Mac systems (if they got the budget for it- else they go for pirated MS software). For the public sector the ch
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I would advise you to take a harder look; whole universities, companies and public sectors of entire states have been using Linux for years now.
Yes, and we have a 5 figure number of linux servers, but who wants to enter those details into this site? Who would allow us? And, their sendmail script, running on all those machines? Not a chance.
None of the major users of linux will want to waste their time with this. This is really for retentive power users who want to show off their linux usage. I know, I've been getting the annual email for years, it still lists my first machine from 10 years ago on there. Well, it did until I finally updated the list
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Your post has not convinced me to give up Linux at all..
It wasn't meant to.
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Amazon.com alone returns 79,000 hits in a search for "Windows software." Gog.com is republishing for Win 7 every MS-DOS and PC game it can its hands on. 300 or so to date.
And google returns 194.000.000 hits in a search for "idiot". What's your point?
and it is time the geek learned that "Free as in Beer" is over-rated.
And "Free as in speech" is under-rated...
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maybe anecdotal evidence, but evidence nonetheless... the supermarkets in my locality ALL have a small amount of shelf space allocated for Linux Format magazine and in
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Of my 5 computers, of which 2 are desktops (mine and wifes), 2 servers and 1 laptop, I gave up the "dual-boot' several years ago. All of the systems run Ubuntu 8.04 (the two servers), or 10.04 on the desktops/laptop. For the ever-decreasing need for Windows, I have a Virtualbox VM on each, with a Windows 2003 server install, which as far as most apps are concerned, *is* WinXP.. Never had a need for a "bare-metal" Windows install in the last
several years. One of the servers, a Dell PowerEdge 750 runs a headl
Android (Score:1)
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... or is that Gnu/Android ?
More like Android/Linux.
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Either that or just Google/Linux.
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Go nux
ha ha from the twitter feed (Score:2)
"This new project will be re-written in a total modern way."
I can hear the counter devs talking now, you see we are going to use this really cool OOP hierarchy and this great ORM for mysql. The server is only going to consume 100MB of ram for each request it will be awesome.
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"This new project will be re-written in a total modern way."
I can hear the counter devs talking now, you see we are going to use this really cool OOP hierarchy and this great ORM for mysql. The server is only going to consume 100MB of ram for each request it will be awesome.
ORMs and OOP don't consume that much memory per request (unless the developer using it doesn't have a clue and/or the project requires a lot of memory, which would be ORM independent). In the right hands, these tools will result in a more efficient app since they free up developer time to profile and optimize.
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Yes but in reality the developers who are now working faster and more efficiently because of their freed up time, probably won't profile or optimize. Most* will consider themselves done and pat themselves on the back for a rewriting job well done without any further thought until something bad happens.
*Most -- Yes I am aware that anyone reading this is the exception to the rule and you profile, optimize and test extensively while not wasting time, you are on /. after all.
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TWITTER YAY (Score:1)
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Also counts non-GNU Linux ! (Score:1)
I've been on this tracker since 1996, and personally MS-free since 2001. I think its a worthwhile project and reply to the occasional update reminders. A reskin is news?
But it counts all Linux systems, not only those which use GNU. I had an email chat with RMS when this all came out, trying to get some clarification. It was a bit confusing, but he said *BSD is not GNU/*BSD even though they use the GCC compiler extensively. What seems to make Linux "GNU" is its' use of GNUtils. RMS did not claim glibc
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FreeBSD is moving to llvm clang. OpenBSD and NetBSD have put effort into getting pcc working again. DragonFly has embrassed the GPLv3 and put recent GCC in. MirBSD has been experimenting with pcc but I don't know their objective there.
MidnightBSD might switch to llvm but we're evaluating what will be the best objective c solution long term. The real problem is support from the GNU community is limited. Upstreaming patches as a BSD developer is a nightmare. They don't want us as users.
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IMHO, RMS is full of it here, and trying to ride Linux' popularity. OTOH, I am quite willing to believe the GPL _is_ absolutely critical to all Linux' development -- it attracted many more developers than the BSDL, most likely those who were concerned about commercial exploitation -- those who wouldn't be proud Apple took their code and hid it in OS/X.
I agree that the GNU/Linux thing is at this stage largely pointless. Linux has become the de facto name for Linux distributions - not just the kernel.
You're aware that the GPL doesn't preclude commercial exploitation? Also, what do you mean by code being hidden? Is it not in compliance with the licenses for the code in question? If there is no compliance issue then why insinuate bad behavior? Are Debian "hiding" vim if they include it without adding a prominent "now contains vim!" banner to their site? D
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The AT&T suit did slow *BSD, but was over long before Linux passed *BSD in installs or coders.
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IMHO, RMS is full of it here
Why? Because he is reasonable and says that a system that is GNU + Linux is GNU/Linux, whereas a BSD is not GNU/BSD, even if it does use the GNU compiler collection?
I don't get the problem people have with this. The GNU project provides a Unix-like (and I would say, nicer than many actual Unices) userland. You can use it with a variety of different kernels (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_variants [wikipedia.org]) and the experience of using the GNU software will be much the same. Operating systems based on the GNU us
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If a user chooses a distro with KDE (rather than gnome), she does not run any GNU software directly (emacs, anyone?). KDE & KApps are not GNU.
Yes, bash and other utils used _are_ GNU, but these are hardly unique and quite replaceable by things like tcsh and BSDutils. Frankly, I do not see system identity tied to invisible utils.
re BT
SSL certificate expired (Score:2)
Almost a month ago, too. Given recent events, my trust in SSL certs is already shaken enough.
Uh... make that three times... (Score:3, Informative)
"The project started in 1993 and shot to fame six years later, largely as a result of three Slashdot articles (two of which brought the Counter to its knees)"
It's down.
Polish a turd, its still a turd! (Score:2)
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So... what would make it more 'modern'? Flash?
Mono.
Delicious (Score:2)
Double Fail (Score:2)
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It's a script with installation and usage instructions that should run on any Linux distro.
What is this "Debian package" nonsense of which you speak?
Seriously? (Score:2)
Oh boy, double fail!
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A flaw in their script (Score:1)
This seems to rely on the fact that the user would have a working mail transfer agent setup on their system. This is a rarity, however. I happen to have mailx configured with sendmail to use an SMTP smart host, however most people probably do not.
Meet the new site.... (Score:2)
silly (Score:1)
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really a silly counter. I started in '98. I have had many computers since that first one so exactly what are the counting?
From the looks of their their script, it appears that they are now counting each Linux computer that reports itself to them via that script on a weekly basis.
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You must be new here