Sony Encourages Linux On Their Phones 212
neokushan writes "Sony has been in the news a lot lately — from the PSN downtime and the identity theft issue that came with it, to the numerous court cases launched to try and quell the PS3 hacking scene. It may come as a surprise to many, then, that Sony's mobile smartphone division has taken an almost polar-opposite approach — they're actively encouraging developers to create, modify and install customized Linux kernels into their latest lineup of phones, including the Xperia Play, the device that was once known as the 'PlayStation Phone.'"
Well that's nice. (Score:3, Interesting)
Sony-Ericsson is almost completely unrelated to SCEI. They are in many ways just as clueless (though nowhere near as malicious, apparently.)
Now if only hardware developers would start pushing their board files and drivers upstream in Linux so that porting NEW kernels to hardware wouldn't be such a bitch. Too bad Google doesn't encourage that.
Re:Well that's nice. (Score:5, Insightful)
First the music section installs rootkits on the computers of paying customers, then the gaming division removes OtherOS and starts a witch-hunt on GeoHot and others who want to tinker with the products they bought legally.
Sorry, but I don't have any desire to wait until the phone division finds a way to take an even bigger dump on the heads of their customer base.
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Re:Well that's nice. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony Ericsson is owned by both Sony and Ericsson but operates as an independent entity, much like Sony-BMG was. Would it be better if it was named Ericsson-Sony instead?
No, it would be better if upper management at Sony and other corporations start appreciating that once you become known for taking anti-customer actions, you're going to tarnish your name to the point that you very well may affect public perception of unrelated divisions and subsidiaries. It's exactly like the marketing concept of "branding", something the suits already understand very well. They just seem to think it only applies when they want it to.
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First the music section installs rootkits on the computers of paying customers, then the gaming division removes OtherOS and starts a witch-hunt on GeoHot and others who want to tinker with the products they bought legally.
Sorry, but I don't have any desire to wait until the phone division finds a way to take an even bigger dump on the heads of their customer base.
It's just SE's new revenue generation plan.
1) Tell people to install Linux on their phones.
2) Sue people for installing Linux on SE phones.
3) ??????
4) Profit.
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don't fall for this, hacker suckers. (Score:5, Insightful)
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But most importantly, you may void the warranty of your phone if you decide to unlock it
That's typical, isn't it? Please hack on it, but don't blame us if you fuck up, because it's your fault. Give us your results if you are successful, because that's cheaper than doing it ourselves. Love and kisses, Sony.
How does installing new software on a pc/phone/whatever void warranty? Oh, that's right, it doesn't if you're buying from a sensible company.
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Well... Rooting a phone is not just "installing new software". It goes a bit beyond that. If you ruin your motherboard flashing a new ROM, custom or not, it'll still brick it and not many companies will replace it.
Just because you can access the bootloader in some way or another doesn't mean sony is responsible if you decide to fill it up with crap that then bricks your phone.
I'm more of the opinion that every phone should have a backup of it's own kernel somewhere with a one way connection. If it bricked i
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BULL. Making safe reflashable devices is TRIVIAL, companies simply don't bother.
Given that it's not the intended use scenario for vast majority of their customers, why should they bother?
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Uh, so you didn't brick the phones.
Bricks don't have unlock combinations.
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Sony is running most new consumer devices under linux. For none besides the playstation anything was revoked.
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Given the *way* they revoked the PlayStation capability, once is more than enough. Of course, that wasn't once. That came after the rootkits that they released on CDs. That came after the official comment (paraphrase)"Most users don't know what a rootkit is, so it doesn't matter.". That came after SONY tried to pass the blame onto another company that they hired specifically to do that job. That came after the repairs to the rootkit that left you vulnerable to any web site you visited. There were seve
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I am not hurt. I did not buy a PS3 as a Linux system and gaming machine at the same time. Whoever did so is stupid. One thing i have learned in my life: If you are the smaller customer group affecting the larger customer group in any way, you lose if your interests collide. Never rely on a technical solution under these circumstances, and if you do, reserve the resources to dedicate duplicate resources in some way. Thats it. Don't buy consumer lines if you want to use something professionally unless you hav
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What was that? Your sarcasm just dripped off the page, I didn't read it in time.
I tried that once... (Score:5, Informative)
It was called OtherOS. Never again...
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Sony's divisions are semi-independent, even within divisions such as SCE. It was SCE's hardware people that wanted OtherOS, and SCE's software people (the ones that sell and market PS3 games) that killed it. Heck, one part of Sony didn't like the fact that the PSP plays MP3's!, but SCE insisted on the feature, though they threw that part of Sony a bone by having it play ATRAC as well. Also SCE made MP3 the default ripping format of the PS3, not ATRAC.
Sony is paranoid about piracy because they also make p
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Sony's divisions are semi-independent...So lay off of SCE, okay.
No, actually this makes me adverse to things with just Ericsson's name on it too.
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yea but Sony is in the picture, instant out
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They didn't buy Ericsson. Sony Ericsson is a separate company, jointly owned by Sony and by Ericsson. And fortunately apparently not much infused with the Sony corporate misculture.
Doesn't matter, for many of us the sheer fact that Sony is in the company's name, along with Sony's past behavior, is enough to make us steer way, way clear of anything to do with the company. Besides, Sony obviously has some kind of stake in the company (given the name), so who's to say they wouldn't buy out Ericsson's stake in the future and take it over? Pretty much nothing, it's easily doable if Sony decides it wants to, and they're obviously interested in the venture or they wouldn't have a stake in
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[...] so who's to say they wouldn't buy out Ericsson's stake in the future and take it over?
So what? Most people change cell phones every other year or so, and realistically that kind of deal would take some time to take effect, so there'd be plenty of time to jump ship later, if that's what you care about.
Pretty much nothing, it's easily doable if Sony decides it wants to, and they're obviously interested in the venture or they wouldn't have a stake in it.
By that logic, Ericsson might equally well be the one buying out Sony's share.
When Sony and Ericsson went into the joint venture in 2001, Ericsson was the one making the phones. Sony didn't have any market share to speak of. On the other hand, Sony owned a huge patent portfolio and camera techno
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SONY BMG is a separate company too. So what? They share common executives and executive policy. And profits.
If you want to trust them, it's your neck. Just don't say you weren't warned.
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Sony Corporation (50%)
Ericsson AB (50%)
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A cute little kitty cat comes up to him and starts rubbing round his ankles, being friendly. You're shocked and dismayed when he grins wickedly and kicks the sweet little cat.
You are still behind him when you see a small dog panting and wagging its tail, obviously pleased to see a human. This awful man kicks the puppy. Again, your shock and dismay is palpable, but you already have his number, you knew he wasn't a nice guy.
Now I don't feel like such a chump... (Score:2)
...for buying an Xperia X10a. Although maybe I will after I RTFA.
Then again, maybe this is all a clever strategy to get Android hackers [xda-developers.com] to develop updated OSs for their phones, since they can't seem to manage it in a timely fashion.
For Now (Score:2)
Not that this needs to be said, but it should be said anyway:
For now.
It's Sony. I'm not sure how they'll take away the ability to boot Linux on phones that are running it, but they'll find a way. At the very least, one of the firmware updates to the existing software will remove the ability to install Linux, you can guarantee that.
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The blog just explains how to do something that people have been doing for years - rooting/reflashing your phone with 3rd party tools. I've done this on several phones. They can't stop it happening. They also point out that it "may" invalidate your warranty.
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Sure they can. All they have to do is what Motorola did, and while they can't stop you from rooting your phone, they can make real upgrades impossible. All it requires is for Android to be dependent on some new kernel feature, and suddenly you're forced to either do nasty workarounds or do without.
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I'm not aware of what situation you're talking about. I'm guessing you're talking about not releasing drivers for new versions of an OS, but that doesn't stop custom versions of the old OS. You can't expect the hardware manufacturer to provide support forever. You should only buy a device if you're happy with it as it is, and treat the upgrades as a bonus. With some manufacturers/devices you can be more confident of upgrades being made available though. I bought a Xoom over any other honeycomb tablet precis
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No. I'm talking about the fact that Android requires changes to the kernel that aren't the same between every revision, and if a newer version of Android requires that kernel then you either have to hack around that dependency or you have to do without whatever required it.
Which is totally irrelevant to th
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The trouble with Motorola is that they hardly offer updates for their recent devices and prevent the owners from updating themselves by encrypting the bootloader so that it only accepts kernels cryptographically signed by Motorola.
Nobody expects Motorola to offer infinite support for outdated devices, but they should at least acknoledge that not everyone wants to follow their idea of product life cycle and thus might be interested in an open device that allows for 3rd party firmware images to be installed.
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Thanks for explaining. The other guy seemed a bit cranky that I'd dare to buy a consumer device.
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And it's also a large company, with many divisions, many management layers, and the left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
So it doesn't surprise me when you see actions that are almost the polar opposite of another division
This isn't that unusual (Score:5, Insightful)
It is absolutely commonplace to find that in companies the size of Sony, different divisions are effectively operated as wholly separate companies and about the only thing they share is the company name and logo.
Separate directors, separate budgets, in some cases even separate legal entities. It shouldn't be too surprising to find they have different attitudes to things like this.
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Don't try to talk sense, they'll just flame you.. :p even in the small business where I work, the depts are vastly different, with different directors and budgets like you say, as well as different cultures/morality.
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Yes but ultimately they are still the same company and you have to worry about the company deciding that the VP who did such a great job at maximizing profits in division X should take a shot at division Y. It's not the guys implementing the features that make the decision to remove them.
That said this is a different situation, being a joint venture and all.
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different divisions are effectively operated as wholly separate companies
And in this case, of course, it really is a wholly separate company, owned 50-50 by Sony and Ericsson, and based out of Sweden, one continent away from Sony headquarters.
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Wow, this is really exciting! (Score:2)
In a year or two when these start showing up cheap at flea markets I will pick one up for the hack potential. Thanks, Sony! I will enjoy buying your castoffs! Please bring out lots of these with high resolution touch displays! kthxbye!
track record (Score:5, Interesting)
I do not think sony will pull another stunt with the phones. They made enough trouble for their users already.
But I am not gonna buy stuff from them, they showed no respect, I show no interest.
Or I should say "they show no respect" because blaming anonymous for a stolen data case without no solid proof sounds like a tactic to deflect attention from the lousy way they lost data or push the equation hacking=bad, which has many more counterexamples than the equation corporation=bunch of psychos.
Android is barely "Linux"... (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, this will result in a wave of posts about how Google loves open-source, about how Linux is Linux, and how Google has assured us that the 3.0 source is coming Real Soon Now...
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Android barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Android couldn't be built on BSD or even WinCE if Google or an OEM wanted it. It isn't close to POSIX-compatible, it only runs "managed" (VM-based) apps, and it isn't even open-source as of 3.0.
What are you even talking about? Here's the problem when referring to "Linux" as the system rather than using the term to refer to the kernel. Take Debian for example. Is it "Linux"? What if you replace the kernel with the FreeBSD kernel, does that still qualify or not? A much better way to describe these systems is by the distribution name, and the second best way is to describe them by the core system itself. So, for example, Debian 6.0, Slackware, and Gentoo are GNU systems that is usually running on top
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The problem with "GNU/Linux" is that it's just too cumbersome a term to use. The OS should really be called by its distribution name (eg. Debian, Slackware, gNewSense, etc.).
Consider that OS from Apple that most people who buy Macs use. Do you call it XNU? Darwin? Darwin/XNU? No. It's called Mac OS X.
Or how about that new OS from Microsoft that's run on the majority of computers. Is it called Windows NT Executive? MinWin?MinWin/Windows NT Executive? No. It's called Windows 7.
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"Android barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Android couldn't be built on BSD or even WinCE if Google or an OEM wanted it."
Debian barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Debian couldn't be built on BS
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What is Linux?
No, seriously, what is Linux?
In spite of all his craziness, RMS and the FSF are right about one thing, Linux is just a kernel. Ubuntu, Red Hat, Suse, etc. could all be built on a different kernel. In fact, just to prove the point, Debian built a port of their OS to a version using the FreeBSD kernel [debian.org].
So, IMO, anything using the Linux kernel, POSIX-compatible or not, is a Linux OS. Otherwise, you're playing pedantics.
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What is Linux?
No, seriously, what is Linux?
Look at Maemo or Meego for a definitive example of a phone OS that is "full Linux".
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Android barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Android couldn't be built on BSD or even WinCE if Google or an OEM wanted it. It isn't close to POSIX-compatible, it only runs "managed" (VM-based) apps, and it isn't even open-source as of 3.0.
So install MeeGo [meego.com]. MeeGo is quite strongly aligned with the upstream projects it makes use of. It really is a desktop Linux distribution for mobile devices.
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Easier said than done. First you need to port the kernel forward to 2.6.37 (reference base) and then you need to beg S-E to recompile the video drivers against glibc and make sure they're compatible with Xorg 1.9.
The joys of closed source blobs and utter contempt for pushing drivers and board files upstream.
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Android uses the Linux kernel much in the same way TiVO does. The reason Android picked Linux before Google bought them was because it's an active kernel with lots of ARM support already in place. But due to how Google uses it the kernel (and due to Android as a whole, the greater open source community) doesn't really benefit.
Shipping, yes. I'd rather see devices running MeeGo, which is a much more standard distribution a
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And no one did rationalize or claim it wasn't (right here, I'm sure people have elsewhere). Can't you wait for your predicted wave of posts before going off on your rant?
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As long as you're consistent and revise your view when the Honeycomb source is eventually released as Google has said they would, then we'll get along just fine. Just don't be a hypocrite and keep citing this negative opinion once it is actually open source.
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That's just the Ericsson part acting up... (Score:2)
On one hand, it's Sony... (Score:2)
but on the other hand, it's Ericsson [wikipedia.org].
Nokia (Score:2)
Re:Nokia (Score:5, Informative)
Most vendors publish (some) of the necessary drivers. However in truly incompetent fashion, they do so by dropping the kernel sources they used for the device. No history, no upstream contribution, just a tarball.
This attitude is heavily encouraged by Google forking permanently from the mainline and not maintaining an upstream of its own, resulting in tons of dead-end drivers for these devices that have to be reworked between Android versions. On top of that, you have the problem that userspace drivers for most video chips are built against Bionic, rendering them unusable on non-Android platforms. This leaves you stuck with software-only for video and no 3D at all.
Sadly there's no guarantee that MeeGo will free us from that, but at least using glibc/Xorg (and eventually Wayland) means that ports of other OSes with full hardware support (including 3D) is more likely, as opposed to now where it's either second-rate via chroot+vnc or software rendering only.
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Stunning arrogance.
But the Android kernel's changes seep their way into hardware drivers, thus making them a bitch to port back to the standard kernel.
But the changes don't go the other way, and I doubt it has anything to do with arrogance.
They will also let you unlock bootloaders (Score:2)
Interestingly enough Sony-Ericson will also allow you to unlock the bootloader [sonyericsson.com] on many of their phones. This naturally voids the warranty and they say in the process some DRM features will be removed from the phone, but this is quite surprising given they are the biggest arseholes in the current technological world. It's a complete opposite approach to Motorola.
Mind you there's enough skepticism on the internet that thinks this is a grand scheme to build a database of phones with voided warranties. After a
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Interestingly enough Sony-Ericson will also allow you to unlock the bootloader on many of their phones. This naturally voids the warranty
It is illegal for Sony to deny you warranty support simply because you have used an alternate, compatible replacement, as per the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. It is probably illegal for the contract to even contain such a clause, as you (the user) are not receiving anything in exchange for giving up warranty protection. You could erroneously say you are receiving an unlocked bootloader, but in actuality you are having a restriction removed and not gaining additional functionality.
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If only US laws applied everywhere. But then I guess we'd have a Patriot Act and a DMCA too so I'm kinda happy they don't. Would rather void the warranty of my phone :-)
Also I'd like to see that phrase "compatible replacement" stand up in court, especially since the fundamental reason for doing what we're proposing is outside the realm of normal use of the device.
I mean under that wording you'd also be entitled to a warranty claim if you installed a modchip in your Xbox which then fried it.
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Yeah, I forgot my "in the USA"
Under that wording you still wouldn't be entitled to a fucking thing, because the modchip isn't replacing anything, it's an aftermarket addon which alters the behavior of the system. It's not an OE-spec replacement. Nice try, though.
Sony news is no longer important to me (Score:2)
Fooled me once ... (Score:2)
Put the play station 'Other OS' option back, apologize profusely and then maybe we'll bite.
Maybe.
Current Sony Android phones are a joke (Score:5, Interesting)
Just go over to the xda-devellopers website and see how great Sony's Android phones are. They are crap. The first gen was released on Android 1.6 when 2.1 was already out (or at least 2.0), and Sony never offered an update. The phone hardware is substandard. Sony support of their phones is junk.
Wait about two years, look back to now and see if they were telling to truth. If you want a preview, go back two years and look at what Sony was saying then, and then look at now. Get the idea? Yea.
Black sheep relatives help with your own choices (Score:2)
It's quite possible that the gaming division is playing the retarded cousin dealing meth out the the back of the station wagon for the mobile division. Scared straight.
Then again, I wouldn't trust them not to yank this at any time. It's Sony, FFS. Gaming division used to brag how much more open the PS3 was than the XBox 360 and now look at it. Okay, so it's open now, but not the way they wanted.
On Sony Ericsson's Android Strategy (Score:2)
Side Note: I'm currently testing the Xperia PLAY out as a sort-of competition for SE, and t
Sony? (Score:2)
Sony started making phones again?? No? Too bad, I really liked their scrollwheel-enabled phones and if Sony came out with an Android running Sony Clie that also happened to be a phone, I'd be the first to race to the store. Man, that would be so awesome...
Or, in other words: this is not about Sony. It's about Sony-Ericsson. A 50/50 joint venture between Sony and Ericsson. It's ridiculous to call it Sony, it's ridiculous to call it a Sony division and it's especially ridiculous to make a comparison with the
They encourage it.. (Score:2)
Today. Then they will change the EULA terms and yank it, leaving you with 1/2 of what you bought.
With Sony Ericsson still delivering phones that (Score:2)
come with Android 1.6 pre-installed, they are not exactly the leaders of the pack currently.
Encouraging development and use of alternative OSS/FOSS firmware (Linux distributions) on SE phones would be a very nice move, though.
A serious commitment by SE to this might be, to some degree, a compensation for the dwindling efforts at Nokia (Maemo, MeeGo, and successors to the N900, pity).
So I'm looking forward to some very interesting - even impressive - results here, some day.
Rebuild the kernel to "change system icons" (Score:2)
WTF?
They used to "encourage" Linux on the PS3 too. (Score:2)
They will alter the deal. Pray they do not alter it further.
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The PS3 is sold below cost. Sony hopes to recoup the loss through sales of games (with it about $/€10 per game sold iirc).
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"The PS3 is sold below cost."
You must have traveled here from two years in the past, when the PS3 was still sold below cost. Welcome, time traveler!
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That's probably the unsubsidized cost of the Xperia. If you think about it, the PS3 is subsidized - via game purchases.
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Most smartphones, when sold off contract, cost that much. Even in Europe.
No, they aren't actually worth that much but that seems to be the sustainable price for unlocked devices.
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I'm sort of the other way around. I don't like Sony, but I take each product on its merits and wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face just because they did this or that in the past.
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I don't like Sony, but I take each product on its merits and wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face just because they did this or that in the past.
There's something to what you say, but OTOH there's such a thing as being a chump. This situation reminds me of the old 'wallet on a string' gag. Continuing to reach for the wallet is simply optimism, however PAYING the joker in the bushes to keep jerking (your) string probably makes you a sucker.
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I don't like Sony, but I'll still give them money if they make something shiny
FTFY.
Personally I feel they've been behaving badly enough that I feel it's against my own interests to give them my money, regardless of how shiny the latest gadget is.
There is no such thing as a context-free purchase.
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sigh, OtherOS was never "Advertised" yes, it was mentioned in the users manual, but that's not advertising. Neither is it getting mention on Kotaku or Slashdot.
The majority of people buying PS3's didn't give a damn about OtherOS and never used it...so it makes not one whit of difference for them. The Slim's also never had OtherOS as part of the efford to get the price down. You remember the biggest complaint abou thte PS3 right, the price? So they take out OtherOS that very few people used and people s
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Bullshit, OtherOS was advertised DIRECTLY ON THE GAME BOX.
Wonder why pictures of that are almost impossible to find, now?
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I call bullshit on you! I still have my PS3 box a CECHE01 MGS4 model and it doesn't mention OtherOS on the box. Check your box, I've had this same conversation with another person on Slashdot, who checked and admitted their mistake.
It is, of course, mentioned in the thicker user manual,(which was also available via the PS3's browser) but not the quick guide.
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Very first-gen boxes directly advertised OtherOS DIrectly on the box. Second revision (moving to the half software/half hardware BC) ditched that.
You don't own a first-gen machine. I do. The VERY reason I bought it was because I saw OtherOS on the side of the box.
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Prove it. I saw early PS3 boxes, and they didn't mention OtherOS. I just think you're mis-remembering out of personal bias over OtherOS.
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it was clearly marketed because I got wind of it - and if you knew the life I live (no tv, no radio, don't read the news paper) you'd understand that it's some pretty potent marketing if it's going to reach me.
My decision to purchase a PS3 (the only console I've ever purchased) came as a direct result of it having OtherOS and giving me something to play with.
As far as I'm concerned, Sony sold me a 4 legged table to eat breakfast off and do my homework on, then snuck into my house late one night and chopped
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if you're behind in marketshare you embrace "openness"
PS3 trails the Wii, yet Sony still went for the lock-in by cutting out Other OS from the PS3.
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Yes, they were paranoid about OtherOS eventually becoming an attack vector. And lets give them some credit for having it in the first place on both the PS3 and the PS2. Nintendo has never supported Linux.
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That makes no sense. Why should they get credit for something that they destroyed?
If someone sells you a nice house for market price, do they get credit? Not really, they weren't doing you a favor, they were making money.
When they later burn your house down, do they get credit?
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Yes, they were paranoid about OtherOS eventually becoming an attack vector.
They were upset that OtherOS already was an attack vector... against Blu-Ray. While other Blu-Ray copiers exist, the PS3 is a blessed device and under OtherOS-based linux you could rip a Blu-Ray just by dd'ing the device thanks to the magic of the hypervisor. Rather than try to fix this problem they just tried to remove Linux from the device entirely, with the result that there is now a hack that adds OtherOS support to the slim PS3, which they never intended.
I don't claim Sony believed that removing OtherO
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While other Blu-Ray copiers exist, the PS3 is a blessed device and under OtherOS-based linux you could rip a Blu-Ray just by dd'ing the device thanks to the magic of the hypervisor.
While it was possible to dd the discs early on, didn't they fix that in one of the 2.foo series firmwares? I'd have to double check the YDL boards. And I know that even though it was possible to dd them, you still had to de-encrypt the files,
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The decrypt is the easy part though, once you get past any malicious on-disc copy protection. And since the PS3 had to be able to read those discs by definition, then that was solved for you by Sony.
You can go backwards in firmware if you try hard enough, too :)