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Government Software Linux News

Secret EU Open Source Migration Study Leaked 311

Elektroschock writes "For 4 years MEP Marco Cappato tried to get access to the EU Council's 2005 open source migration study because he is a member of a responsible IT oversight committee in the European Parliament. His repeated requests for access were denied. Now they have finally been answered because the Council's study has escaped into the wild (PDF in French and English). Here is a quick look. It is embarrassing! Gartner, when asked if there were any mature public Linux installations in Europe, claimed that there were none. Michael Silver said, 'I have not spoken to any sizable deployments of Linux on the desktop and only one or two StarOffice deployments.' Gartner spread patent and TCO FUD. Also, the European Patent Office participated in the project, although it is not an EU institution."
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Secret EU Open Source Migration Study Leaked

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  • by StCredZero ( 169093 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @08:52AM (#27964775)

    Someone needs to pull a John Stewart/Jim Cramer on Gartner. These guys spread so much BS, yet continue to be considered an authority.

  • Oh noes! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by EveryNickIsTaken ( 1054794 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @08:56AM (#27964801)
    Mod me down if you want, but Linux needs to go "full retard" in order to reach the masses. Essentially, a 6 year old and a 96 year old need to be able to use the system. If they can't, start over.
  • by noundi ( 1044080 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @08:59AM (#27964855)
    Sure you can arrest the drug dealer, put him in prison for a few years and then release him without changing anything or you can go after the head [] of the operation and solve the problem permanently. The only party that benefits from this is Microsoft, no fucking bullshit-FUD-internet-forum-made-up word doubt about it.
  • Re:Oh noes! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:00AM (#27964859)

    Mod me down if you want, but Linux needs to go "full retard" in order to reach the masses.

    Essentially, a 6 year old and a 96 year old need to be able to use the system. If they can't, start over.

    And that is precisely what Ubuntu is trying to do. It is a matter of opinion as the whether they are succeeding, but I believe that they are.

  • Re:Oh noes! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:00AM (#27964865) Homepage

    A modern 6 year old can move between Windows, Linux and MacOS and not even realize they are different operating sytsems.

  • Re:Oh noes! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by noundi ( 1044080 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:01AM (#27964881)
    Was the article not clear in any fucking way? Linux needs Microsoft to stop manipulating parliaments to reach the masses. Period.
  • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:03AM (#27964907) Journal
    Unfortunately, their cutting public humiliation, while well deserved, would probably be a ratings nightmare. If you aren't familiar with the jargon, correct technical analysis and bullshit technobabble look virtually identical. Stewart owned Cramer because Cramer made the mistake of fucking up in a domain that virtually everybody cares about, and most people know at least a little about.
  • 2005 != 2009 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by firejump ( 1469371 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:08AM (#27964951)
    I'm in no way trying to defend Gartner and his study, but I believe there is a huge difference between Linux adoption in 2005 and now. Some slides from the pdf linked in the article suggest that major portions of the study were made even earlier, in 2003. Of course basing any technology-related decisions on such a outdated study is another matter...
  • "WinFS Arrives?" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dunkirk ( 238653 ) * <<moc.redirkdivad> <ta> <divad>> on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:09AM (#27964957) Homepage

    I love it! Here's our infamous "Gartner" group in prime form. FTFPDF, we see that they are predicting the arrival of WinFS anywhere from late 2008 to early 2010.

    Now, anyone who's been around as long as Gartner knows that Microsoft has been promising this "feature" since Windows codename "Cairo," which was announced in 1991, and publically demo'ed in '93. There was a lot of hope that it would be delivered in NT 4.0. That's roughly 16 years folks. WAY more time than they had to develop Duke Nukem Forever, and it's just a _file system_.

    If you want to talk about basing your corporate purchasing decisions on "features" like WinFS, then all this slagging off on Linux as not being "there yet" is directly hyporcritical, now, isn't it?

  • by tolan-b ( 230077 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:24AM (#27965123)

    Well racist troll or not I feel compelled to point you don't know what you're talking about. I'm native of the UK, currently living in Spain, and I can tell you your cab driver doesn't know shit.

    Since it joined the EU Spain has received massive investment from the EU, which it has used to modernise in all sorts of ways and has gone from a stagnant low GDP economy to being one of the leading economies in Europe.

    The UK on the other hand has benefited greatly from having to take on a modicum of human rights law from the EU which its leaders (and popular press) have hated but IMHO have been a huge boon to human rights in the country. Of course the UK government is doing its best to trample all over those rights still but are repeatedly slapped down when they over-step the mark.

  • by elrous0 ( 869638 ) * on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:25AM (#27965137)
    Well, ARE there any "sizable deployments of Linux on the desktop" in Europe (in companies and government, I mean--not on some geek's home PC)? It seems to me that if you're going to refute a study, you should start by showing they're actually wrong.
  • by Nutria ( 679911 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:29AM (#27965177)

    While I dislike Gartner about as much as anyone on this list, we must remember that this report is 5 YEARS OLD. I would be surprised if there WERE any large-scale mature Linux desktop sites back then.

    Still, it's a steaming pile of FUD: before companies started rolling out Windows in a big way, how many large-scale Windows sites were there?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:32AM (#27965227)
    It's funny how all you assholes that go on and on about NTFS don't even know that IT WASN'T A FUCKING FILE SYSTEM!

    Please read the following carefully: NTFS was an abstraction layer THAT WAS GOING TO RUN ATOP A HARD DRIVE.

    --End sarcasm--
    Functionally, what difference is there between a file system that runs atop a platter of bits and one that runs atop a stream of bits? To me, it seems that a File System can run atop another file system and still be a file system - look at GMailFS, for example. Think of it in terms of compilers - does a backend targeting assembly make something a compiler, while a backend to C/Java/Brainfsck do not?
  • Re:Oh noes! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Yvanhoe ( 564877 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:33AM (#27965235) Journal
    Installing new software and new hardware is now easier on the latest Ubuntu than it is under Windows Vista. Linux is not mature : it is simply superior. As a pre-installed OS it would be a dangerous competitor for wiindows on the non-gaming market.
  • by c-reus ( 852386 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:33AM (#27965241) Homepage
    is LHC running Windows?
  • by rackserverdeals ( 1503561 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:49AM (#27965485) Homepage Journal

    is LHC running Windows?

    Do they have a large deployment of Linux desktops? Sounds like they're just using it for their grid.

  • by nxtw ( 866177 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:54AM (#27965573)

    WAY more time than they had to develop Duke Nukem Forever, and it's just a _file system_.

    It's not "just a _file system_". It's not even a file system in the traditional sense. I would describe it as a very fancy metadata and structured data indexing system [] built on top of an existing file system and relational database.

    I suspect that the system would be too complex if fully implemented considering the benefits it would bring - lots of potentially "cool" features, but not a whole lot of stuff that is truly useful (except desktop search, but that's already been implemented without WinFS.)

  • Re:Oh noes! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by richardablitt ( 897338 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @09:56AM (#27965609) Homepage
    That's why we need (and have) several different distributions aimed at different demographics. The Windows 'one size fits all' system doesn't work.
  • by Zashi ( 992673 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @10:08AM (#27965877) Homepage Journal
    You're unhappy with Linux because you're making the fatal mistake of trying to live a Microsoft life with a Linux based OS. It's like deciding you like nautical life so you buy an airplane. I had the same problem when I switched from windows 98 to Linux. I used XP along side Linux for a while, but eventually Linux (more acurately, POSIX) felt oh so more right and sensible than windows. Now, if it isn't POSIX compatible, it's a weird niche system to me. If you can let go of all your windows-isms and microsoft-isms you can be much happier with your computer. You can't constantly compare the two OSes, either. You'll never be satisfied like that, especially if you're really used to the first OS. It's like watching a really great movie many times and then years later watching a remake. Even if the remake is fantastic and new and has all the elements of the old that you like, it'll still be different. It will still feel like a shameless copy that doesn't quite work the way you want it to. You'll expect a line from your favorite character only to hear something different. Does the fact it was different from what you expected make it a bad line? Probably not, but it still leaves you a bit disappointed. I guess my point is to leave behind all your preconceptions about what an OS is and how it should behave, if you truly wish to switch to Linux--or any other OS for that matter--and be happy with it.

    Okay, enough bad analogies.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 15, 2009 @10:21AM (#27966097)

    No. The Gartner study was about 'predictions' too. And it is easy to demonstrate that those were wrong. What it's worst, I suspect there were purposely wrong.

  • by RiotingPacifist ( 1228016 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @10:23AM (#27966115)

    Cern would have been a large scale mature system even back in 2004, and AFAIK most of their desktops run linux, granted it is because they need scientific tools, but if you were paid to do research you could of atleast taken a look at their system.

  • by lordandmaker ( 960504 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @10:40AM (#27966441) Homepage
    This is not that Linux is not mature, this is that Linux is not what you want.
  • by rackserverdeals ( 1503561 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @12:07PM (#27968185) Homepage Journal

    I don't think CERN has ever been big on using Windows on the desktop. After all, it was at CERN that the World Wide Web was created, on a Unix workstation.

    Then CERN is not relevant in a story discussing a windows to linux and OSS office suite on the desktop.

    High end unix workstations are not the same as typical office worker desktops.

  • by Locutus ( 9039 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @12:22PM (#27968463)

    Gartner is the former DataQuest company, the came company people used to call DataGuess. They're just a place for companies to purchase "Gartner Research" papers using the following form:
    1) What is it you want research on?
    2) How many pages do you require?
    3) What is the target result you're looking for?
    4) How quickly do you need the research paper?
    5) Price is based on the following formula:
    cost= number of pages * $1,000 * needFactor
    needFactor = 10 * inverse of #weeks needed

    If you want to stop them, advocate for better technology education in K1-K12 and I'm not talking about using particular software. Advocate education on how to use the computer as a general purpose tool. It doesn't take much to see through companies like Gartner but it takes SOME education.


  • Re:Oh noes! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by richardablitt ( 897338 ) on Friday May 15, 2009 @04:53PM (#27972465) Homepage
    Although most of those are just the same versions of Windows that have been crippled to different extents.

Genius is ten percent inspiration and fifty percent capital gains.