Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 "Lenny" Released 386
Alexander "Tolimar" Reichle-Schmehl writes "The Debian Project is pleased to announce the official release of Debian GNU/Linux version 5.0 (codenamed Lenny) after 22 months of constant development. With 12 supported computer architectures, more than 23,000 packages built from over 12,000 source packages and 63 languages for the new graphical installer, this release sets new records, once again. Software available in 5.0 includes Linux 2.6.26, KDE 3.5.10, Gnome 2.22.2, X.Org 7.3, OpenOffice.org 2.4.1, GIMP 2.4.7, Iceweasel 3.0.6, Apache 2.2.9, Xen 3.2.1 and GCC 4.3.2. Other notable features are X autoconfiguring itself, full read-write support for NTFS, Java programs in the main repository and a single Blu-Ray disc installation media. You can get the ISOs via bittorrent. The Debian Project also wishes to announce that this release is dedicated to Thiemo Seufer, a Debian Developer who died on December 26th, 2008 in a tragic car accident. As a valuable member of the Debian Project, he will be sorely missed."
Eternal Lands (Score:0, Interesting)
There is an MMO game I play named Eternal Lands. In this game a powerful beast roams and is a prized / rare target to encounter. The name for the beast is Lenny.
I play in a Linux-themed guild on Eternal Lands. The guys will get a kick out of this news.
Debian going strong, glad. I sort of use Ubuntu now though for desktop needs.
Re:Best KDE 3.5 distro? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, the timing has worked out perfectly.
I run Debian testing, so I've been on 3.5 for a long time, and very happily I might add.
Now when sid starts moving again, KDE 4.2 will go in - completely avoiding the earlier, less complete releases that everybody was ranting about.
Couldn't have worked out better, and is a reminder that you don't always need to be on the bleeding edge anyway.
Debian has a very good KDE packaging team, btw.
Re:Best KDE 3.5 distro? (Score:2, Interesting)
The Debian KDE team would love any help people can give, perhaps from Kubuntu guys!
Thiemo (Score:5, Interesting)
He was a great hacker [lwn.net], it's nice to know that more people will remember him.
Re:A Debian release! (Score:1, Interesting)
Nope. We have plenty of characters and by that time Toy Story 3 will come ;)
Blu-Ray? (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe I'm just overlooking the obvious, but where IS the Blu-Ray ISO image? I can see it mentioned in the SHA1SUMS file [debian.org], for instance, but it doesn't appear to be on the cdimages server, neither as an ISO nor as a .torrent.
Newsworthy. Actuall news. (Score:5, Interesting)
Just reading this (Note I am not a Debian User anymore) has me noticing just how much the quality is in the FOSS field compared to MicroSuck, Adobemedia and any other company that's just in it for the money and not the technical perfection. Despite all marketing gibberish to the contrary.
While I've been using Ubuntu for it's ease of use in recent years and see Debian more as a kind of building kit when I need a more customized Linux setup, it is none-the-less a terrific feat to wrap up a product that meets Debians quality standards, as opposed to those of - let's say - Windows Vista.
Even the slashdot post on the new Debian has more content that a MS press release.
That all observed and said, congrats to the Debian crew for yet another release of a great OS and Software kit.
Re:KDE 4.2 practically already available (Score:4, Interesting)
Honestly, if you're the kind of guy who uses Debian stable you certainly will stay with KDE 3.5 until at least 4.5.
Good to see that in the time of bleeding edge releases-every-6-months distros there's still a choice that actually allows you to get work done.
Ubuntu LTS is one such choice as well.
I made the mistake of upgrading to Ubuntu 8.10 from 8.04 LTS (and didn't like it), and now I need to go back. With Lenny out, it will feel less like a defeat if I install Lenny instead ;-).
Re:A Debian release! (Score:5, Interesting)
Sarge really was the source of these endless jokes. Almost three years, on a Linux that was considerably less mature than it is today was forever. Remember that all releases are tested and mature by the time they are included in stable, so they were at the worst more like four years behind the bleeding edge. Obviously you don't want a server anywhere near the bleeding edge, but damn do I understand all the application developers that said "You're running THAT?! We stopped development on that branch years ago, nobody backports anything not even security fixes anymore". A distro has to be a team effort with the people developing it - you can't expect Debian people to fix 20000 old packages alone. The current situation is just fine for a server OS, though I wouldn't run my desktop on it. I used to run testing until early 2007 but for all the faults Ubuntu has, having semi-annual "packs" is better than the constantly changing flow that testing is.
No OpenOffice 3.x (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm obviously very happy about the Lenny release since my employer (part of Environment Canada) makes us use Debian. However, I guess there are "good" technical reasons, but I'm sad OpenOffice 3.x could not make it. One of our tech allowed us to install OO3 on our Etch machines. The result: 003 makes my Etch crash (the full OS, not just the app, to my entire surprise!). I'm not saying it's the same for everybody else, but it's a sad thing for me. (in fact, even 2.4.1 can crash Etch since I installed 3.0... and I'm no way knowledgeful enough to fix that problem :-/)
Why does computers have to be that complicated? ;-)
release with 84 RC bugs? (Score:5, Interesting)
I might be missing something here, but aren't there still 84 release-critical bugs [debian.org] open on lenny? I understand a number of them have been deferred to lenny.1, but I had expected this number to drop further before a release was made. Has Debian changed their release policy?
[captcha: prudence]
FHS 2.3? (Score:2, Interesting)
The debian press release on http://www.debian.org/News/2009/20090214 mentions:
It also features compatibility with the FHS v2.3
(The press release for 4.0 did the same.)
However:
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#LIB64 tells me that
The 64-bit architectures PPC64, s390x, sparc64 and AMD64 must place 64-bit libraries in /lib64, and 32-bit (or 31-bit on s390) libraries in /lib.
What insensitive clod does break a lot of older software and claims to be compliant with standards when they aren't?
Re:Newsworthy. Actuall news. (Score:2, Interesting)
There are very few things that the GIMP can't do that Adobe PS. Granted, PS is a more polished product, but non-professionals are unlikely ever to notice a difference in feature set. Furthermore, the GIMP interface has been improving, and I now think that they are equally good, only very different which is why it is relatively difficult to switch from one to the other when you are very familiar with one. Such a scenario favors the incumbent. Hello, Windows vs Linux.
Re:unstable is pretty stable too, really (Score:3, Interesting)
Experimental is also where KDE 4 has been living all this time. It'll be good to have experimental back to be something I rarely get a package from, rather than half my GUI systems :)
Re:Blu-Ray? (Score:2, Interesting)
I like just having the 10 MB disk and downloading only what I need (12Mb/s no cap). Installs take an hours or two, but I never have an unpatched system.
Spontaneous upgrade for me... (Score:3, Interesting)
Today I just decided to do an upgrade of my Debian server, to have the latest security and bugfixes. Instead I suddenly got hundreds of packages to update... well this explains why. I jsut have my sources pointing at stable, so that is updated now automatically.
A complete new stable release, interesting.
Not sure whether I should be happy with this or not. On one hand great to have a major update of some software, on the other hand I hope I'm not going to break anything.
And the only thing I was actually planning to do was install ldap and authentication over ldap!
Re:OT question ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Buy stuff with Linux support and quit your bitching.
I think I was not bitching but asking a question. The problem is that I would love to buy (yes buy) stuff with Linux support - problem is, that it often simply does not even exist.
My original question was exactly about one of the things I would consider to be of major importance: the ability to play blue-ray movies on the desktop. As far as I can see there is no legal way whatsoever to do this on Linux and there is no legal way in sight either.
I can assure you that I do check for Linux support, but the harsh reality is that, especially in Europe, where the selection of goods is probably a lot smaller than in the US, it is very often simply impossible to get anything decent that also works with Linux. Apart from blue-ray movie playing -- there simply is no decent GPS device that allows me to transfer map data to the device on Linux.
I guess my point is that these are serious problems for making Linux more common for a broader user-base and I would love to see constructive ideas how to deal with them instead of ignoring the problem, routinely putting the blame on hardware companies and disregarding anyone who raises the issue as a troll.
Meanwhile in Redmond.... (Score:3, Interesting)
To put things into scale :
WinME->WinXP home 13 months (but at least it got home users rid of WinME)
Win2k->WinXP pro 20 months
WinXP->Vista 61 months (yup) (+2 if you count when it hit the shelfs)
Vista->Win7 announced for 2010, so that would put it at least 37 months
(that it before, delay get inevitably announced)
Re:A Debian release! (Score:3, Interesting)
There are three reasons why 3 years for debian was far worse than 5 years for windows.
The first is that linux was pretty immature at that time. IIRC woody didn't even have X autoconfiguration and asked you scary questions about your monitor rather than just defaulting to safe settings and letting you crank it up later.
The second is software authors have different attitudes towards windows and linux.
Windows developers tend to assume you will be running a stable release of windows that was current sometime in the last decade or so.
Linux developers (at least desktop ones) tend to assume you will be running something within a year or two of the bleeding edge.
Running current apps on an older version of windows (down to 2K at least) is generally not a problem. Running current apps on a linux distro of similar vintage is a PITA.
The third is that while XP lasted a long time MS did update it quite a lot over it's lifetime (far more than just security fixes and bugfixes)
Re:A Debian release! (Score:2, Interesting)
Actually, long before sarge development began, or woody for that matter, there were already jokes about Debian releases being aeons and aeons apart and severely out of date. These jokes are probably almost as old as Debian itself. What happened with sarge is that the jokes went from lighthearted and fun to cruelly ruthless black comedy.
Re:Blu-Ray? (Score:2, Interesting)
Where's python 2.6? (Score:2, Interesting)
While I'm happy to see that libapache2-mod-python [debian.org] at last supports python2.5, I'm very dissapointed that debian developers didn't include python2.6. Do we have to wait another 22 months for it?
If the debian folks think that python2.6 could cause problems they are free not to make it the *default* python. But not including it at all is insulting for the python development team. Most important, since python2.6 is considered a stepping stone to python3 [python.org], it is also very inconvenient for those who want to start migrating their code to python3.
Re:OT question ... (Score:3, Interesting)
There's nothing "grey" about the DVD solution. Using libdvdcss in the USA is a violation of the DMCA, and consequently is illegal at a federal level.
So why not release Debian with all the nice goodies included, but have the final stage of the installer ask "Are you in the US?" ... and if you answer "Yes", then it removes anything that cannot be distributed there.
Re:Blu-Ray? (Score:3, Interesting)
it is indeed unfortunate that afaict there is STILL no decent client for jigdo.
The main jigdo gui plain doesn't work. There is a script called jigdo-lite that "works" but provides no progress indication and fills your console with garbage and gives no clear indication of whether it is resuming or starting again from scratch.
anyone here familiar with the source for a linux download manager and fancy adding jigdo support?
Re:Best KDE 3.5 distro? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think this shows the problem with Slashdiots who try to push Linux.
What is PR?
Public. Relations.
So apparently, we're supposed to ignore the message the group puts out to the public regarding its own product, and instead read Slashdot/Planet KDE/digg for news morsels instead. Because that's what a REAL nerd does, and by golly, if you don't know the difference between a .0 and a stable release, you have no business trying to use our beloved software!
And this isn't even a case of an obscure technical issue being glossed over, they took a well understood norm (X.0 means it's a final release, after release candidates and alphas/betas), gave it their own definition, and declined to explain it in their press releases - you know, the thing that's supposed to explain to the uninitiated what the product is? But yeah, that's just PR, REAL nerds don't do PR, right? Public relations? What's that?
This is why Linux is still behind Apple and even MS.
Go back to Slackware. Please.
Re:MicroSuck??!! Grow the fuck up child (Score:3, Interesting)
MicroSuck??!! Grow the fuck up child
Wow. Chill. You're getting a little worked up about that.
A little anecdote: I got a Laptop as a christmas present from my Company last xmas. I came with Windows XP preinstalled and an optional Windows Fister on a disk. I thought I might as well give it XP try, even though I've used Windows back in 2002 the last time for serious work. ... Ok, things do go haywire sometimes, no bad feelings. Forced shutdown, did powercycle, continued exploring WinXP. Looked fairly neat, even for someone used to a pimped out KDE 3.5 or Max OS X with Exposé. Then I noticed my HDD going krrr,krrr,krrr. Every second. Thought I allready had a virus, troyan or something. Then I thought - wait, this is Windows - it could be MS crap pounding my HDD. Asked my flatmate - no Programmer but a MS expert user and he basically said: Yeah, that's XP indexing stuff. Be happy you didn't install Vista, he'd been doing that constantly. Then he told me that XP doesn't shut down regularly if something in userspace tries networking or simular stuff and that a shutdown-hang can take up to 20 minutes. Then he told me what actually happens if MicroSHIT WGA thinks your licences isn't valid. 4 weeks nag popup, then a minimal mode in which you only can start Internot Exploder and ony visit the MS homepage with in order to buy a licence.
After 2.5 hrs. configuring it and installing all the tools I'd like to try out (Netbeans/JavaFX, Firefox, Flash CS3 & Flex SDK, etc.) and some other stuff it wouldn't shut down.
At this point I once again had enough of Windows and took the Ubuntu 8.10 CD I had prepared for such cases beforehand and installed it. Zero fuss. Nada. EVERYTHING on my brand new Dell Volstro 1510 worked right from the beginning. Wireless, Bluetooth, all the extra sensor buttons for the music player, bells, wistles and blingbling. Rythymbox I think the musicplayer is called, yes? I don't even know or care exactly, that's how flawlessly it integrates with the controlls. And I actually like Amorok and it's magnatune integration more! And Ubuntu actually doesn't hang on shutdown if I chose to turn of my WiFi inmidst of a session. ... Allthough VS does crash a little to often for my taste, but that's a different story ...
On it goes: This weekend I bought a super-brand-new Saitek Cyborg X 5-axis joystick full of buttons and stuff that looks like it came out of a starwars movie or something. Pluged it in, fired up VegaStrike and started using it. I didn't even have to install frigging drivers!
So, for the bottom line, pardon me, but I, a senior IT expert with 23 years of programming experience and - bets are ten to one - way more experience with various OSes than you - actually do think - after thourough personal experience at various occasions - that the recent OSes MS has been putting out are about the shittiest of core software-products I personally have come across lately. It isn't that MS does Desktop OSes on the side, you know? The term MicroSuck I therefore actually do consider quite fitting and appropriate. And no I am not an OS X nor a Linux fanboy. I just know a shitty software product and a bad company policy when I see one, that's all.
Glad we have settled that.