OpenSUSE 11.0 Released 301
Nate D writes "It's here: a new major release of Novell's community-supported distro is now available, and can be downloaded from the mirrors. Linux Format has a hands-on look at the new installer, SLAB menu and Compiz Fusion, and weighs up whether the distro can fight competition from Ubuntu and Fedora. Is this the start of a new era for SUSE?"
I will not (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I will not (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:I will not (Score:5, Funny)
"No one ever got fired for buying microsoft."
No one has ever been fired for drinking a glass of warm urine in the privacy of their own home. Doesn't make it the right decision or a pleasant experience.
Well, at least I don't think anyone's been fired for that...
Re:I will not (Score:4, Funny)
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"Hanging out at Microsoft
I will be at Microsoft on Thursday and Friday, and only have meetings on Thursday afternoon.
I would love to meet other hackers. If you want to meet, discuss, talk, drop me an email:
Posted by Miguel de Icaza on 18 Jun 2008"
http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2008/Jun-18.html [tirania.org]
What is it called if something is so sad that you can't even risk joking about it?
Re:I will not (Score:5, Funny)
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Probably not (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Probably not (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Probably not (Score:5, Informative)
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I'm not dissing Debian for their approach, but it is quite different to Ubuntu's even though they use the same package management.
Re:Probably not (Score:5, Insightful)
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No. That stuff is pretty recent.
I seem to remember the existence of scripts like EasyUbuntu and the like a while back to get that stuff running, although they were a bit dodgy so the command line was preferred in my case. I think that was for the last LTS release.
I also seem to remember that Ubuntu was already gaining a lar
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To amplify a little on what you said, what matters for desktop use is:
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Re:Probably not (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Probably not (Score:4, Informative)
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recently I have moved to all Sata Devices DVD, burner , and HDD's all of them installed flawlessly on opensuse 10.3 . Not to mention 11 Alpha and RC
I am more than positive this would also work with fedora , ubuntu etc. And Im not talking about hooking them up on that cheap a$$ Jmicron crap either. They run with ICH(X) chips or nforce fine.
The funny thing is
Re:Probably not (Score:5, Interesting)
When I changed over (full time) from XP to openSUSE 10.2 I could happily leave my PC on for days, use suspend (RAM and disk) many more times than under XP without a reboot to "freshen up" and I haven't yet seen a SEGFAULT that couldn't be fixed with a rc<service> restart.
In short, my experience is not the same as yours. Have you got odd hardware or an overclocked system?
Full speed BIOS settings, AMD/VIA, ATI GFX (8xAGP, 256M), ATA133 (x6) and everything runs peachy. Under XP having the AMD/VIA combo would cause the OS to crap itself regularly no matter which drivers I used, and I have tried a lot of them.
Now I have a copy of Win2K in VirtualBox running seamless mode for when I need Photoshop. With the recent v1.0 release of WINE I may even lose that
And to top it all, Linux has the free edition of NX [nomachine.com] that is far quicker and immeasurably more secure than VNC.
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If you take a look in
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Re:Probably not (Score:5, Informative)
For me, the only downside to SuSE is its slow and memory-inefficient package management system. It gets substantially better with each release, so it might be approaching the speed of apt-get on Ubuntu, but in 10.4, it wasn't quite there yet in performance. In features, however, it's definitely there
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Then SUSE came with the YaST, and I could "re-install" without actually reinstalling, and much time was saved.
Of course now all that stuff is real obvious anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
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Other than that, as has been said, all features are available on all distros, so it is just down to personal choice, and what you are used to working with. RPMs and DEBs are very similar once you get them on your machine, you can even use alien to install them.
Been with (open)SuSE since v8.0 so I know my way around this particular distro better than the *buntu boxen that I admin.
SuSE's firewall is best (Score:2, Interesting)
The Yast system manager is pretty good too, especially the software management section, but then again Ubuntu's Synaptic and apt-get from Debian totally rocks too! I'd love to have OpenSuSE with both Yast and Synaptic together, but I'm too lazy to try to install the Deb
why do you need a firewall (Score:2)
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Firewalls arent always used just for inbound attacks, what about using it as an adblocker, or maybe you only want certain computers in a network to communicate, or maybe you are just a little overly paranoid...
Besides, as Linux popularity grows, it will necessitate the need for more firewalls/security, especially with recent blunders with Flash, et al, there will be more of those aswell...
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Re:SuSE's firewall is best (Score:4, Funny)
So iptables is iptables is iptables to me.
You kids and your fancy configurators.
Now get off of my lawn!
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Not sure if it is what you are looking for, but FireStarter is a pretty easy way to configure you iptables.
Re:Probably not (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.novell.com/linux/security/apparmor/selinux_comparison.html [novell.com]
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELinux [fedoraproject.org]
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No, didn't think so.
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Yes, you can add either to the other. But there is far more expertise for AppArmor at SuSE considering they acquired it when they bought Immunix. And there is far more expertise for SELinux at Red Hat, considering how deeply they are involved with it.
And then there is this
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There is an argument to be made for the way most of the people on the dev team use the software though. Integration is sometimes easier when the functionality has been designed into the distro by the people who created it.
When I was a SuSE user they always had KDE as their default desktop, and to shoehorn Gnome in just never felt as smooth as RedHat with default Gnome. This is my own experience, negated now by openSUSE having both options available.
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They may not specialize, but the liklihood of a 3rd party vendor supporting a particular vendor goes RedHat EL, SuSE, Ubuntu, in that order.
Also, RedHat, my personal least favorite distro, is pretty much the only one I've used for the past 7 years because that is what my employers feel comfy with.
SUSE has more Enterprise-focus (Score:3, Insightful)
Competition between major distros doesn't really exist, because all features are available for all distros.
While some may argue that SUSE is bad as a matter of principle (because of their deal wil Microsoft, which secured them a truckload of cash), it is my experience that SUSE has more focus on Enterprise needs than most other distros.
So yes - perhaps all features are available for all distros. But not all are actually implemented/moved to another distro. Most corporate users like the way YAST (packet manager) is working, and they also enjoy some of the built-in features for central management and integratio
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Re:Probably not (Score:4, Interesting)
For instance, the recovery can take about 45 min to an hour (or more). Then you have to clean all the trial-ware junk off it. Then install programs such as an antivirus, adware-spyware detection and removal tools, a real firewall, probably a replacement for the browser (Mozilla Firefox). Then because the computer can't do much more than browse the web without the trial-ware crap I install open office, google earth, pidgin, and a slew of other open source products. After that I have to spend the next two hours installing updates (install reboot, install, reboot, install, reboot, etc). Then of course you do the stuff that everyone else does--set up mail, copy over backed up data, etc.
With a regular install of XP you can skip the removal of the trial-ware crap but you still have to do all the other stuff mentioned above. And that takes hours.
With Linux it takes about 15 minutes to get the install done (that includes repartitioning the drive to dual boot with Windows, and the installation of those same Open Source programs. Then it takes about another 15-20 minutes to download the updates from on line.
From that you configure things just like you like them. Only with Linux it's more fun and the options are always free. I don't have to worry about paying some company money to add some nifty ability to my desktop. And I don't have to worry about virus protection nor about whether I have good firewall protection. Security is pretty sound unless you go opening up the doors to everyone and the way linux is designed it helps to protect you from yourself.
I say the winner for speed and capabilities goes to Linux, any day!
Torrent link (Score:5, Informative)
http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.0/iso/torrent/openSUSE-11.0-DVD-i386.torrent [opensuse.org]
I think most of the downloads are being done selfishly via HTTP or FTP, as I've been in the swarm for almost 1h and the speeds are quite low, there are only 60 peers.
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Going at about 180 down, 35 up (limited, cause my upload is only 512kbits)
Grew by about 250 peers, just while typing that...
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And for curiosity sake, which ISP?
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Not theoretically speaking, I gave up my Cable ISP when they refused to update my DOCSIS modem firmware. It took 4 hours to order a US Robotics DSL modem and open account on a DSL provider.
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*encrypt your conections,
*keep your number of connections limited
*dont upload more than (find the ISPs throttle spot here)kb/s
and you should be fine
screen shots (Score:5, Informative)
Yay, no Gnome top-menu (Score:3, Funny)
Shame the review didn't use KDE, as that's the good point about SUSE as far as I am concerned.
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I'm starting to think that with Compiz, there shouldn't even need to be menu bars, start buttons, taskbars. Hit the Windows key on the keyboard (yeah, it should be a penguin) and a launcher / taskswitch layer
It may well be a step backward for me (Score:2)
I run 10.3 on my 2GB Thinkpad T60p and its rock solid. Now I tried 11 and it was like going from XP to Vista. Slow as anything and it kept crashing badly, on a machine that is Suse certified.
I may download and try the new version but a work to the wise, make sure your backups are good.
However if you are wanting to have a mess around with Xen, its now built right in, so its not all bad.
From a Noob's point of View (Score:5, Interesting)
For a Linux lover but amateur, I loved it for it's simplicity and ease of installation.
Article gets at least three things wrong (Score:3, Informative)
2. The Microsoft pact hasn't alienated any of the community that matters. There are fundamentalists that gripe and whine and spit about every intellectual property issue that they *perceive* reduces openness. And there are people who write code. There isn't much overlap at all between the coder and the fundamentalist - so there whining and spitting should just be takes as the meaningless noise that it is.
3. Yast is *extremely* modular and not in the least bit monolithic - one just has to look at the Yast packages to know that. It even has multiple front-ends. This makes as much charge as the people who accuse Evolution of being monolithic (it a highly modular app that consists mostly of cooperating components). Another Yast plus is that it works and coverts almost all configuration issues right down to certificate management. That makes SuSE / openSUSE the only distro with a comprehensive management tool.
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Don't drink the Microsoft kool-aid. Novell has continually stated that the deal had nothing to do with patent protection for "Microsoft IP in Linux" - only Microsoft has been pushing that fud. Funny how, if this was such a deal, Microsoft hasn't revealed their supposed IP.
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One basic question. Is Mono and Moonlight a selected
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As I pointed out, Novell is more than a linux distributor.
I *do* believe that Mono and Moonlight, in their current guise, are trojans, and that Miguel de Icaza should be given the boot, asap, but that's another story. Novell has done a lot of the heavy lifting for the community, including the SCO crap. OpenSUSE is a good product; it should be judged on its' merits, and not on any FID from Microsoft. After all, Microsoft is claiming that
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I *do* believe that Mono and Moonlight, in their current guise, are trojans
Oh, yeah. Interoperability is just terrible.
.NET/Mono win big in the "not sucking as much as Java" category.
.NET BCL and other .
The CLR is a better framework than anything else out there, and whining about that because Microsoft came up with it is completely retarded. If Java didn't suck, I'd use that--but it does, and
Knee-jerk fear of Mono being used to enforce patents later is ignorant of the legal system; Microsoft has promised that they will not engage in legal action against those reimplementing the
A crusade against cross-platform initiatives? (Score:3, Insightful)
One basic question. Is Mono and Moonlight a selected by default option or not?
I can't say for SUSE 11, but for 10.x neither Mono or Moonlight was installed by default. They were available through the YAST package manager.
I would use original XP or Vista rather than a thing which is made by their cloning partners. At least they are original.
It is sad that you come to such a conclusion without at least evaluating the technical potential of these projects, and perhaps Novells reasons for engaging in them. It sounds almost like you are on a personal crusade against commercial vendors who are in the cross-platform / portability business.
Novell has made it its core business to connect technologies wh
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While it could be my evil way of thinking, it is certainly a very serious image problem for SUSE.
Re:New Era? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:New Era? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple has also purposely broken the iPod database so that Free Software iPod software broke after the update.
Apple also have a similar deal with Microsoft as Novell has.
I know, I know... "Apple shiny. Me like shiny" makes it all better, right? Whatever.
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Only an Apple hater would think Apple would purposefully expend developer time just to break an open source project that undoubtedly sold more iPods.
Apple and iTunes (Score:3, Interesting)
Only an Apple hater would think Apple would purposefully expend developer time just to break an open source project that undoubtedly sold more iPods.
I'm afraid you're in denial. It is well known that Apple have consistently and deliberately added layers of hashes, obstufication, and DRM to successive versions of the iPod in order to try and stop it being accessed from third party players. For example, to quote from a BBC news story about it [bbc.co.uk]:
There seems to be no reason for this change except to break the functionality of alternative jukebox software. It will not limit copying or restrict attempts to strip digital rights management code from tracks. It will not stop people adding non-DRM files they have downloaded from the internet to their library. All it will do is stop the third party players working and force anyone with an iPod to use iTunes.
Independent enough for you? The BBC are hardly "Apple haters". And crying "Why would they do this if it sells more iPods?" is short-sighted: iPods are a low-margin product; most of the money Apple makes from th
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Lets see... Nokia just shipped "Nokia Maps Downloader" application which is not absolutely photoshop class complex application. It is coded in
Look to REAL WORLD, not some Mono blogs or Mono clone coders friends applications who are hosted at Novell themselves.
Re:New Era? (Score:4, Interesting)
Want to see a multi platform framework? http://azureus.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
If Nokia had brain to use a true multiplatform framework, that "Maps downloader" could work inside ANY BROWSER of ANY OS. It is so sad that MS manages to trap people even in age of 2008. Of course, some must be clever and get paid for it. I am worried about the actual naive ones thinking MS would produce or let produce anything equal to their pyramid scheme named Windows.
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If they built it purely in managed code and it doesn't work under Mono, then it is just a bug in Mono - file a bug so that we can fix it.
No need to insult us.
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I have picked Nokia Maps downloader on purpose since it as a 22 MB download results in 70-80 MB .NET 3.0 download which (forget Linux!) doesn't even exist on Windows 2000. The Windows 2000 which you can happily run Java 6 even faster thanks to the less bulk of XP/Vista.
Nobody sees that scheme of Microsoft? If someone at Nokia finally figures their high end customers who owns $400+ smartphones (that can run Maps) doesn't give a shit to how cheap Windows PC is and near 30% of them runs Mac OS X, what is need
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Novell SuSE is the commercial OS that Novell sells while openSuSE is the community edition. Both brought to you by...you guessed it, Novell.
http://www.opensuse.org/ [opensuse.org]
openSuSE is the test bed for new packages and configuration. Once vetted, those changes are moved upstream into Novell SuSE proper.
This is exactly the same way Fedora and RedHat work.
Should we also dump reality? Or competition? (Score:5, Interesting)
While you may disagree with their goals, and be almost religiously in opposition of them, I think they do more good than bad. They ultimately ensure that the customer/consumer has a wider choice in products and technologies, and they are IMHO they key to breaking the monopolistic world domination which certain vendors enjoy.
I honestly don't understand why some people believe Novells projects (for example Mono and Moonlight) are "bad" while similar cross-platform initiatives (such as WINE and SAMBA) are "good". I also don't understand why people see IBM's investments in Open Source projects as "good" while Novells are "bad".
In a free market, the users and customers benefit from having the widest range of products to choose from. Any company or community who is engaged in software projects which enhance portability and interconnectivity are "good" the way I see it. Especially when they release them under open source licenses - like Novell does.
Given the allready widespread use of
- Jesper
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If you're interested in running a non-KDE desktop, have you considered Xubuntu [xubuntu.org]? It's the Ubuntu variant with the lighter-weight Xfce desktop. I run it on a 600Mhz Pentium III laptop with 128MB of RAM, and it works quite well (be sure to grab the "alternate install" disk if you're running with as little RAM as I am).
I had no issues with the non-standard desktop components on my laptop working out-of-the-box, but of course YMMV here. Wireless, sound, etc.
If Xfce is not light enough, you can always install
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Basically all I use my laptop for is running NX to my home machine, so a light fast small desktop is the best solution.
On the compatibility side, I do have to run ndiswrapper to make my Linksys PCMCIA WiFi work, but once it is in, KNetworkManager takes care of all the complicated stuff.
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My point being that it doesn't even need 128MB, although I wouldn't recommend that you try to make it work full time on 64.
</more data points>
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1) a single live CD, for either KDE or Gnome,
2) a DVD, or
3) a network install
Re:Justin (Score:5, Insightful)
In response, I've heard that the difference is that Apple doesn't pretend to be fully open-source whereas Novell does to an extent, though Apple does have an open-source kernel and other bits in addition to a proprietary system. Similarly, Novell's SuSE (not openSuSE) is a product that users typically need to pay for. From a high-level view, this looks like both companies offer a proprietary system as well as an open-source subset of that proprietary system.
As a result -- at least, from that simplification of the issue -- I think that anti-SuSE people on Slashdot are treating Novell unfairly versus Apple. I'm not a fan of the Microsoft deal, either, but I do like openSuSE on technical and, especially, usability grounds, and that is why I both advocate for and use it both at home and at work.
Now I'm off to download the latest version
(there goes my karma, though
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Microsoft and Apple relations have nothing to do with Novell and Microsoft partnership. For example, Apple sees the web developers and others insist on using Verdana etc. fonts. They PAY to Microsoft to get those fonts while Microsoft pays them for Truetype which
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I typically tell colleagues who ask about the Microsoft deal that Apple has numerous patent and other technology licensing agreements with Microsoft, and yet we don't see a groundswell of people on Slashdot calling Apple on the carpet for their Microsoft agreements.
I can't speak for everyone, but I couldn't care less if Apple uses MS patented or copyrighted code in their OS. I mind a whole hell of a lot if Novell accidentally managed to sneak some in, polluting my Ubuntu kernel with legal issues that I have no desire to be involved with.
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That, and the network manager kept prompting me for my WEP key repeatedly, even when I had the hard switch for my wireless turned off.
And I couldn't stand the graphical package manager
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Re:Why people should stay away from it (Score:5, Insightful)
Untill then I will most certainly recommend SUSE if the business case supports it. And in some cases it will - no questions asked. Novell makes great cross-platform products, so if a company needs, say, a cluster of servers capable of running both J2EE and
Or perhaps we could imagine a company wanting to convert their outdated XP clients with Linux clients in order to postpone hardware upgrades (which would be needed in order to migrate to Vista). Perhaps the ability to show webpages with Silverlight elements was an important criteria? What about browsers capable of showing PDF documents, MS Word documents, Flash content, etc? All these are cross-platform initiatives, and I honestly believe that Linux won't make in into the corporate environment without these.
I don't understand why some people think Novell and their projects (for example Mono and Moonlight) are "bad" while other cross-platform initiatives (such as WINE and SAMBA) are "good". I also fail to see why the same people often argue that IBM's investments in Open Source projects are "good" while Novells are "bad". The discussion about Microsoft/Linux/Novell needs to be elevated to a level where it is based on the same standard you would demand in other more scientific debates. Drop the emotional and irrational arguments. Give me facts and examples from real life.
Users and customers benefit from a free market. It gives them the widest range of products to choose from. Any community or company who is engaged in software projects which enhance portability and interconnectivity are "good" as far as I am concerned. Even more so when they are releases them under open source licenses - like MONO and Moonlight.
- Jesper
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use Mono today and tomorrow there will be more reasons to move to Windows.
Oh, hell yeah. Because GTK# and QT# work great on Windows, right?
Get a clue before you start whining about OMG TEH MICROSOFTS. I understand that you have a retarded knee-jerk hatred of Microsoft. Carrying that over to Novell (who, might I add, went to bat against SCO--or have you already forgotten that?) because they support Mono, a tool for interoperability that doesn't suck nearly as much as Java, is amazingly retarded.
Novell's business is making systems talk to each other. They don't really care if thos
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Linux <mybox> 2.6.25.7-PReDiToR #1 Thu Jun 19 04:44:46 BST 2008 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
Don't like the openSUSE kernel? Don't use it.
Just like that.