Novell's Linux Business Takes a Seat At the Grown-Up Table 101
CNet is reporting that while Novell still has a long way to go before they start making Red Hat nervous, they have at least gotten a seat at the grown-up table. Reporting 31% year-over-year growth in their Linux business, Novell attributes very little of this success to their Microsoft partnership, looking to their Redmond connection mainly for interoperability work. "Novell's core Linux business is growing. By 'core,' I mean that our non-Microsoft- related Linux business is growing. These are Suse Linux Enterprise Server subscriptions sold directly by the Novell sales force or by our channel partners, without any Microsoft certificates or Microsoft salespeople involved. However, the important thing is that our total revenue picture for Suse Linux Enterprise is growing, as our customers increasingly don't distinguish. As we've said before, Microsoft offers an alternate avenue for purchasing subscriptions but we are focused on growth of the whole category."
Frosty Posts (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Frosty Posts (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Frosty Posts (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Frosty Posts (Score:5, Insightful)
If the NSA wants to develop security frameworks they obviously can, and the main kernel devs seem happy to incorporate their work into the kernel.
If you have some reason to not trust SELinux, much as i hate it, do tell.
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Call me nutty, but I don't exactly like the involvement of government in my software.
P:
sort of irrelevant, its open source
The opportunity to review patches written by Chinese intelligence agencies would be no more reassuring.
Widely reviewed random number generators and encryption algorithms are one thing. That some of these are regarded as dubious while others are seen as strong is encouraging. Kilobytes of patches touching every part of the kernel are rightly regarded with caution...
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SELinux was merged a long time ago, and is in use in certain situations already.
Please stop with the paranoia, or tell me how completely open code can somehow let the NSA spy on you, because thats what people are implying when they bring this crap up.
This is not closed code, nor is it somehow able to hide what it is doing, unless of course you don't read the code before patching mainline with it.
PRNG and ciphers are different, there could be weaknesses in them of course but YOU CAN SEE
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*tinfoil hat*
Yeah but who is to say they haven't already fiddled with the compiler? [ittoolbox.com]
Re:Frosty Posts (Score:4, Interesting)
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Infact im getting rid of Ethernet since nasa wrote most of the drivers.
more than a third of a billion (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:more than a third of a billion (Score:5, Insightful)
But, now at my current job, it is all RHEL and HPUX........with a few older sun boxen tossed into the mix.
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"Novel Microsoft Present" (Score:2)
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Geez, it took you that long to figure it out? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Geez, it took you that long to figure it out? (Score:4)
So how do Linux servers compare to NT servers? Have you done any comparions?
Re:Geez, it took you that long to figure it out? (Score:5, Informative)
Also we are getting better uptime, those little "glitches" you get with windows. Not that they were a major things but annoyance.
More proof? We needed a new lookup only DNS server. So we dug out a low spec Dell box and used openseuse with yast to install the correct programs, and bingo, within an hour, we had one free, fast, functional dns server. No needing to find a key, or worse, trying to convince some jumped up rep that yes you really did purchase a Windows 2003 license, or even worse still , sorry we cant sell you w2k3 anymore, just windows 2008.
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Novell do a really good implementation guide
here [novell.com]
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Regardless, The last place I worked was a big shop that did hosting and client services (large UK company's presence in the US). They had a client with a RH cluster that they kept on complaining about and having it fence off nodes, etc. Of course
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Eventually though, you start wondering why people pay so much more when you just keep getting more functionality that works.
As for the solution - Heartbeat and Xen both take some tweaking to get right but are fine and stable when they are right and the other parts of the solution
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Re:Geez, it took you that long to figure it out? (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.microsoft.com/canada/getthefacts/default.mspx [microsoft.com]
With friends like that...
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I've never been paged at 4AM because my Linux/AIX boxes rebooted in the middle of a major data aggregation job because of an automatic update.
In fact my AIX / linux boxes all have uptimes of over 700 days, except one of my new servers which has been up 200 days.
The windows server is relatively stable, besides the occasional freeze up(like 2-3 times a year it hardlocks). The real PIA is th
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Don't you have a test enviroment?
Fucking noob.
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Money does not equal skill. I've seen interns who knew more about what they were doing then the 'professionals' they were working under.
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Why in the holy fuck would you ever turn on automatic updates on a production server?
Don't you have a test enviroment?
We have a server administration team that will roll out 0 day exploit patches to production servers. We use tivoli and our own MS patching server(SMS) to control these updates and packages.
I have 2 test environment for all of my systems, a test and a qual environment.
Perhaps it's out server admin team who is to blame for this. All I know is that my windows applications are a PIA.
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Hmm - there's been quite a few security updates for the Linux kernel lately, that affect the version in Debian stable. I've been rebooting our Linux boxes a fair bit lately as a result...
YMMV if you're still running a 2.4 kernel though.
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Because I have a very special fan. Check my journal for details. ;)
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In particular Mandriva's conf screens beats the ---- out of yast any day of the week and twice on sunday.
What makes SuSe Linux more interoperable? (Score:4, Informative)
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only Linux distro to take Microsoft bribe on the order hundreds of millions of dollars.....
Re:What makes SuSe Linux more interoperable? (Score:4, Funny)
if(you.suit()) {
buy();
}
else {
run_like_hell();
}
Re:dislike this company (Score:4, Informative)
That being said, regardless if you like Novell or not, they contribute to some of the most important and popular projects for F/OSS that if you use almost any distribution, you are touching daily.
Your assessment of the situation is flawed and incorrect. Please see the following as some proof: http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/ [openinventionnetwork.com] http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about_members.php [openinventionnetwork.com] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_v._Novell [wikipedia.org] http://www.novell.com/ctoblog/?p=54 [novell.com] So... In summation, if you use the Linux Kernel, SAMBA, Gnome, KDE or any numter of other F/OSS products/projects...thank Novell for their contributions.
Re:dislike this company (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think that is what the deal is about. Msft's business model does not work unless msft can control the standard. Msft wants linux to be legally encumbered. Msft is getting Novell to agree that all other version of linux are violating msft patents. This is supposed to create one legal version of Linux, and all the rest are illegal. Why do you think msft is sponsoring the Acacia lawsuit against Redhat?
Right now, there is no way msft can kill off linux in the same manner that msft has killed off msft's proprietary competitors. But, if there is only one linux, and this linux is commercial product, then it becomes much easier for msft to kill off, or at least contain the problem.
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http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html [novell.com]
http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft,-Novell-spar-over-Linux-agreement/2100-7344_3-6137444.html [cnet.com]
Microsoft got Novell to agree to very very little :). This is a collaboration effort and customer indemnification.
"indemnification" from what? (Score:2)
#2. What "indemnification" is Novell paying for, specifically?
Companies usually do NOT pay for things that they do not receive.
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So Novell Pays MS and Novell gets paid MORE than that BY
Explain that again. (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't matter how much you get paid, you've still entered into an agreement stating that you are paying Microsoft for the property that know is included in the product that you are selling.
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Times are changing (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft is getting sloppy and silly. These are indeed new times.
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I don't think that is what the deal is about. Msft's business model does not work unless msft can control the standard.
Their business model worked just fine before they were big enough to "control" anything. In fact, that's sort-of how they got to be that big. It never ceases to amaze me how ready the groktards are to condemn a company for doing what every company since the beginning of the free market are trying to do: make money.
Msft wants linux to be legally encumbered. Msft is getting Novell to agree that all other version of linux are violating msft patents. This is supposed to create one legal version of Linux, and all the rest are illegal.
Good thing Linus and all those other developers gave Novell the permission to "agree" that they were violating patents they've never even seen. Of course Microsoft wants Linux to be using its
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On the contrary, Microsoft was controlling from the beginning: it piggy-backed on IBM's clout to control DOS, and went from there.
My first comput
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Sorry the very idea of this is absurd. I don't think anyone at MS is deluded enough to believe that this is a viable strategy...Maybe in the year 2100 under one world government someone could actually believe this line of reasoning but otherwise you are just making shit up.
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I see it this way. (Score:4, Interesting)
But, I see SUSE as the following.
A Linux system that you can buy (note not OpenSUSE) without the fear of being sued by Microsoft for the duration of the licensing agreement between the two companies.
For that reason, I would not recommend SUSE to any business at all. I might be legally wrong but that is how the tie up between Novell & MS seem to me a non Lawyer.
I do appreciate the stuff that Novell has contributed but personally, I won't touch anything that uses MONO with a 100m Barge Pole. Yes, I know it is apparently free of any potential patent liabilities but I see it as a trojan horse much like Moonlight.
IMHO, Microsoft wished that Novell, RedHat & Canonical would just disappear. They are not so I wish that for once they (MS that is) would say 'Ok guys, we will work properly with you for the pure benefit of our customers'. That is as likely (IMHO) as Concorde ever flying again.
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"They can wish in one hand and take a crap in the other, and see which gets filled first"
I don't think MS is trying to play nice. Hedging your bets is not about "Ok guys, I can't stack the deck anymore, lets play fair." It is simply "How can we make money off this thing we can't control while we figure out how to fsck them in some way?"
I think Novell got smarter to the ways of the beasts within MS. They are not some small group of Doofus faced chuds (Ok, Miguel is). I
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I do appreciate the stuff that Novell has contributed but personally, I won't touch anything that uses MONO with a 100m Barge Pole. Yes, I know it is apparently free of any potential patent liabilities but I see it as a trojan horse much like Moonlight.
And you're wrong. Even disregarding estoppel (look it up), it's an excellent way to leverage cross-platform code without the brain damages of Java. (Hint: it's Mono, not MONO.)
Anyone who uses "hurf durf Mono M$ LOLOLOLOL" as a reason not to take advantage of an awesome set of tools is a fucking moron.
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But, I see SUSE as the following.
A Linux system that you can buy (note not OpenSUSE) without the fear of being sued by Microsoft for the duration of the licensing agreement between the two companies.
For that reason, I would not recommend SUSE to any business at all.
I can just imagine the look on my CEO's face if our legal department sent this memo. "It is our conclusion that, by using Linux, you may be (but likely are not) taking on legal liability for patents which Microsoft may (but likely do not) have, that may be infringed (but likely are not) by Linux. Additionally, if you purchase SUSE Linux directly from Novell, you are guaranteed that Microsoft will not sue you for any such patents for at least some period of
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THey are saying that because they have this deal with MS, they are MORE interoperable than other linuxes.... which is an EVIDENT LIE.
In the GPL, there is NOTHING they can do, that is not in another distro.
While I m at this, I thank novell for their contributions, but i dont HAVE TO from any ethical standpoint
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Your assertion of a absolute truth is plainly false. While it is possible for other distros do do the same thing that they do, that is not at all the same thing as saying that they do do the same thing as SUSE.
Clearly, if all distros did the same thing, then there would be no reason for multiple distos. All distributions aim to be best at something special, and make some effort to differentiate themselves.
Distributions are designed around different goals, different sets of target users, built by differe
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From:"In the GPL, there is NOTHING they can do, that is not in another distro."
To: "In the GPL, there is NOTHING they can do, that can not be done in another distro."
I think the general argument still stands: there is no real "interoperability" feature that exists in Novell's Suse and nowhere else. That can be done in ANY linux distro (if you feel such inclined).
Therefore, their campaing is full of BullShit (TM)
Re:dislike this company (Score:5, Insightful)
Whatever criticisms people have against msft, you have to give msft credit for being strategic. Right now, msft is teaming with novell to defeat redhat via msft's patent scam. Once redhat has been defeated, msft can turn their attention to other linux distributors, including novell. Let me remind you, msft has a long history of turning against their business partners.
Re:dislike this company (Score:5, Insightful)
stop pushing FUD and realize that they, just like other companies are in the business of making money and despite that, they continue to help the community. I'm not saying that I necessarily love their MS agreements either, but I don't think they're going to let MS poison open source and/or hurt the community...
appreciate your comments, but honestly am a bit sick of some of the novell bashing, most of which is based more on fear than on reality.
Mod Parent Up (Score:4, Interesting)
Argue for a minute that SuSe saves their bacon, there's no proof Novell can out-manage RedHat. Let's say BOTH companies are viable growth assets, then I think Microsoft will open the trojan horse they sent to Novell at bare minimum.
Re:Mod Parent Up (Score:5, Informative)
In getting somebody on the phone, they are about a tie in time, but Novell edges them out in hold music.
In getting solutions, RH loves to point you to articles, Novell likes to get lots of logs, but goes a bit further sometimes. I have 2 stories to share on that.
At one prior company that switched from MS infrastructure servers to Linux, they moved from RHEL 3 to SLES 9 and 10 on VMware. I had an issue with logging into their servers via SSH using the company approved terminal program (not free, but oru version was not in support, being about 2 versions out of date. PuTTY worked fine.) After calling their support and escalating, their 2nd level guy said he'd call me back. A few hours later, having downloaded and installed the trial for the terminal program, he gave me the settings I had to change in the sshd_config to make it work.
At the same company as above, we had issues using SAMBA/Winbind to authenticate users to the server. It kept losing kerberos tickets in our environment. We sent various logs to them and finally were sent to 3d level support. They shortly sent us to engineering support and issued us a patch for "our" environment and told us to use this version of SAMBA and to email them when the next version alert for it was sent to us with the reference to this case so they could check the change logs and backport the fixes they had implemented when/if we wanted to upgrade.
Hell, I love their cool solutions pages and even use the novell docs sometimes to get things done on Redhat, due to their being more informative.
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Ive had novell support tell me that some packages IN THEIR DISTRO are supported and some arent.
Which are which (i asked him) and where in your page can I know?
You cant, he said....
In RH, everything in the distro y rightly supported through adn through.
Is this a good thing? (Score:3, Insightful)
I could argue that apple and sun also benefited from their deals with msft.
But, long term, although the individual deals are often beneficial, at least in the short term; the long term effects of these deals is to further entrench msft standards.
JMHO.
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The only way we're going to get back to truly open standards for everyone is if we accept
should we agree that Linux is patent emcumbered? (Score:2)
Personally, I'm happy to see "embrace and extend" applied against Microsoft. Microsoft overturned industry-established standards by embracing them (adopting them, providing interoperability with them, etc.), then creating Microsoft-only extensions that locked people into their products. Now, Nov ell is giving Microsoft a little taste of their own medicine, embracing .NET and turning it into Mono, among other things.
WTF? Who uses Mono? I thought Mono was completely borked, and a joke to real developers? Besides, what does Mono have to do with novl/msft scam? And how does this use "embrace and extend" against msft?
The only way we're going to get back to truly open standards for everyone is if we accept the reality that, at the current time, a lot of standards are Microsoft-only, and only by providing a clean interoperability path with existing tech will we ever be able to migrate to something better
So we should go along with the msft/novl scam, and agree that Linux is patent encumbered, and that Linux needs this dirty under-the-table deal to be legal? And that only novl Linux is legal to use?
The Name Change (Score:2)
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The company's full name was Software- und System-Entwicklungsgesellschaft (Software and System Development Society), and S.u.S.E. is just the abbreviation. I don't see anything wrong with that.
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You answered your own question.
What's wrong with SuSE? That SuSE is an acrostic for "Software und System-Entwicklungsgesellschaft" and the product name for Novell's Linux distribution is "Software und System-Entwicklungsgesellschaft" no more thus the old acrostic doesn't hold water.
Current Novell's Linux distribution's name is SUSE. What is wrong with that?
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SuSE was the acronym for the company which distributed SuSE Linux. I don't see any childish behaviour there.
"grown-up table" ? (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, what, exactly, constitutes the "grown-up table" and who sits there? Does it mean that they're now a player against Red Hat? Against Sun? "Endorsed" by Microsoft?
What exactly are the rules of the game at this point. 10-15 years ago, BSD and Linux were going head-to-head against commercial UNIX, such as Solaris, HP-UX and the like. Now, Sun is getting back to its roots and open sourcing Solaris (Bill Joy, original BSD author and creator of vi and csh was a founding partner of Sun, after all).
It seems that from old metrics, the "grown ups" are trying to sit at the "kid table."
Does that indicate that we now look at Microsoft as "grown up?" Are we talking merely from a business standpoint, not technological? I surely hope that is the case.
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We must be, 'cause kids don't lie about or refuse to be accountable for their actions or toss chairs in angry hissy fits do they?
wabi-sabi
matthew
Trojan Horse (Score:2)
They are selling their "differentiation through interoperability" so that they appear as a Microsoft friendly Linux.
A complete lie, of course, because if there is one thing true about the GPL, is that they cannot do anything without giving it back. Particularily in samba.
Assholes.
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They are selling a distribution that actually does seem to "get along better" with a windows environment right out of the box. Sure, you can do the same things with Red Hat, but it is just a tad easier with the features in YaST to get things done.
They are not MS' bitch, Trojan horse, or anything else. I may be wrong on this, but Novell contribute a "Metric Shit Ton" towards F/OSS software and are champions of it, in general. The deal with MS is being blown way out of proportion.
I love it!!! (Score:2)
Novell's offering has been very, very stable for the server environment, and at a very reasonable price. Plus, I like what Novell has done for OpenSuse (my preferred choice for desktop platform).
Good price, good stable environment, and even contributing back to the greater community.
Dance with the devil (Score:2)
"The grown up table" (Score:3, Interesting)
So, was the rats' table full?
Novell attributes it to the MS-FUD deal, yeah of course, if you receive big large amounts of money from another company so you paid them for every purchase done to you, and you would also use this fact to advertise yourself as more legal and "more interoperable" than other distros, it probably will put you in a high spot. However, that doesn't make you less of a rat.
Smearing other Linux bussiness and using false advertising to climb and steal their market, it makes you a rat in a book.
Oh, sorry slashdot, I forgot "Novell contributes a lot to free software", so it is untouchable and I cannot make a bad commentary about them or what they are doing to exploit a deal that should have never been made. Sorry for criticizing Novell, uh oh.
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1) Actually complete a sentence and
2) Link us to the real thing! Seeing a pumpkin isn't shocking.
Shameless, just shameless.