23,000 Linux PCs For Filipino Schools 142
Da Massive writes "Speaking at the linux.conf.au event in Melbourne, Australia, independent open source consultant Ricardo Gonzalez has told of how he has helped bring 23,000 Linux PCs to over 1000 schools in the Philippines: 'Ministers in the Filipino government now understand Linux can do so much for so little outlay.'" The slow process of educating a government that knew only Microsoft is especially well described in this piece.
don't hate me (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm a linux geek....but
If the true goal of a computer program for a school is to ready its students for the workplace, then is linux really the best method of doing so? Isn't the school in some way doing its students a dis-service
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Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Interesting)
Even for those that do go on to work with Windows, though, having used more than one UI is a Good Thing for a reason: The more of them you learn, the better able you are to notice and generalize the common concepts, and the less limited you are to only being able to use the individual UI you learned on.
Re:don't hate me (Score:4, Insightful)
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Back then, you frequently saw Macs on the top management's desk, and PCs everywhere else. That was because you literally were buying computers by the truckload. You were going from no computers on peoples' desks to as close to everybody having a computer as possible. Most people knew, of course, that going by TCO it was c
Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Interesting)
It doesnt matter what OS or software they use.
Typing up a document or surfing the net is nearly identical no matter what you choose.
Also hopefully some of these kids will go on to management and instead of being tied to Windows they will lean towards Linux instead.
I really want to shoot the managers who think "Windows works well on my desktop. Lets make all our company servers run it too!"
Thats a effect of Microsoft being in all the schools.
In Australia, Microsoft actually gives away all their software to schools in a effort to make sure everyone is brought up with their software.
Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Interesting)
The little guys count more than you imagine.
If every insignificant country switched to Linux overnight, Microsoft would be screwed within months.
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Hurt? Definitely. But screwed? I doubt it. Remember, Microsoft is sitting on mountains of cash, and they can go for a couple of years without the sale of a single product before that cash reserve runs out and a market where Windows and Office are often sold for $1 per license or pirated. I doubt they would be hurt that much if those countries just switched over to a Linux stack.
Microsoft's cash co
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Of course they would still be twitching for awhile but their cash reserves cannot hold out forever.
Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:don't hate me (Score:4, Insightful)
Talk about hitting the proverbial nail on the head....with a sledgehammer!!
Sadly, that method of teaching is not as prevalent as it should be.
When I was in college, one of the most important things I was taught is the concept of knowing where to find 'the reference materials needed' instead of a crapload of by rote memorizing.
I got my AAS in Veterinary Technology (think Registered Nurse for Critters), and while I was doing that, a BS in Biochemistry just kind of fell into the mix with no additional effort. (Vet Tech is TOUGH!)...No way to memorize all of the needed info, but knowing when and where to find the info needed made the big difference.
Medical Terminology, Pharmacology, and Anatomy(leg bone connected to the hip bone...by what? and by which attachments?!...hint: there are 27 major attachments to the scapula-shoulderblade to be learned- How's that for a non-sequitur?) are all brute force memorization, but after passing the classes it is just a PDR away (PDR=Physician's Desk Reference). Many times I have thanked the head of Murry State's head of Agriculture and Veterinary Medicine's Dr. Kay Helms for this little bit of insight.
This concept applies readily to any tech field, and many more. *disclaimer: this could be a more cogent post if I was not into my second beer! (9.5% alcohol by volume, 40 oz.)*
Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Informative)
Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm actually encouraged when a doctor looks something up. It means they're not just guessing or relying on memory of a similar case they came across a long time ago. The only GP I currently trust proverbially as far as I can throw is one who when I presented a medical problem offered to do some research and ring me the following night from home.
My boss is a pilot, and he told me a
Re:don't hate me (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm an engineer and my sister is a pharmacist. I don't interact with people and nothing needs to be known NOW. Heck I sat in a meeting where we had 5 engineers around the room and I was the youngest and we all broke out our Fluids books to figure out some mass transfer through a pipe.
On the other hand I just got out of ACL surgery. I wasn't feeling any effect from the Oxycotin (naturally high tolerance to all drugs) so I called my sister. She knew off the top of her head what would react with it and how much more I could take. Granted she also knows where to find the stuff if she doesn't know.
As I see it:
Engineer: Where to find it>What it is
Doctor: What it is>=Where to find it
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This was my major point. There is WAY too much to know and remember...ask your sister.
Education and experience will let you know what to remember and what to look up, but in your reply you raised valid points:"There are some majors where rote memorization is good. When you're in the ER and you just reacted to some drug and you're going into cardiac arrest do you want the doctor to go "Hold on a second let me let me look this up." Absolute
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As an engineer, you should maybe look at this method. (not trying to be an asshat here) Do you memorize every engineering table you are exposed to, or do you only memorize the relevant ones to your work?...and have a clue as to where other relevant tables could be found?
I don't even memorize the ones relevant to my work. There's no reason to, they're huge. Some of us kept our engineering books (I resold mine but I'm considering picking up some old editions on half.com). Some of the stuff from freshmen year that we've used every year since has stuck around. F=ma, V=IR, rho*g*h, Water is 1000 kg per cubic meter, and the likes.
But absolutely nothing on the scale of my sister (or my Aunt that's a dermatologist, or my uncle that's an ER doctor).
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However, ask your uncle what he would do if a patient presents partial paralysis and a MRI or CT scan show negative? Chances are he won't
A solution that they own. (Score:5, Insightful)
Teaching Microsoft in 3rd world countries, mean creating a new generation of users that will completely dependant on an foreign solution, and that one day, the workforce of the country will spend significant amount of money which will be spent overboard and will go to the pocket of a foreign company.
This guarantee future bleeding of money : you have a nice new emerging IT environment that strives to develop, and most of the earned money will exit the country in term of license.
On the other hand, teaching open source software will help the new generation realise that these solution exist, and that they can take them as their own. Instead of having a Microsoft unleashing BSA-like dogs to crackdown on unlicensed copies, they have access to FSF software whose philosophy is "do whatever pleases you with it *AS LONG AS* you keep guaranteeing the same freedom when you passes it around".
Once this generation grows and enter into the workforce, a lot of busyness opportunities may appear that don't depend on foreign companies. Thanks to OSS, local solution my be developed, with new emerging companies basing their solution on infrastructure they can own themselves. The earnings from such companies will stay inside the country and help stir up the economy.
Free software empowers emerging countries, whereas proprietary software represents one additional way to lock them into a permanent dependence on foreign companies that will bleed out of the country the earning of emerging IT busyness.
That doesn't matter much for rich countries. But learning that you don't necessarily need to depend on some US company is very important in emerging markets.
Also, as you said, given the difference between Office 2007 and, let's say, Office 97, and given that these children will also be at least 10 years away from entering the workforce (and much more for those few who'll manage to go to universities) learning a specific interface implementation is completely pointless. What they need is to learn some basic concept in computing (what is word processing vs. which button should be clicked). And Linux is just as good as anything else for that.
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Of course open solutions created or contributed in the third world not only means they will be save money but they will also be able to achieve a more competitive status, in first and second world technology.
The important part of open source is to create an effective ecosystem for it, with it being taught in primary and sec
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Re:don't hate me (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:don't hate me (Score:4, Insightful)
Fortunately the skills were useful for Word at a later point, and understanding how directories (now folders) work.
Many people I work with (as customers) don't understand how to download something from the internet (or an email attachment) and find it at a later time. This is a useful skill that is very cross platform. As are typing, google, webmail, and even spreadsheets.
If someone can learn enough to type as quickly as fast handwriting, use the internet, send an e-mail, and save a file for later retrieval they are much better off than one who can't.
Spell check, and spreadsheets are bonuses.
It could also reasonably be argues that the purpose of computers in school is to save money by not needing encyclopedias and other types of expensive books, and to augment the ability to teach certain types of subjects.
I say this as someone who set up a Xubuntu computer at my wife's work for a summer internship for high-school students that had very little computer experience (they could use a mouse and type, and certainly knew how to find myspace instead of work though). They would stay after they could leave to use the computer to type essays and learned how to enter data into a spreadsheet along with basic (very basic) spreadsheet concepts like sorting and dragging down a column to repeat a pattern. These are the types of things that will help them be more qualified in the workforce even though they gained no Windows experience.
Software like the test builder/taker in Edubuntu could be a great bonus to a school poor school and could easily save a school dollars a test (goes somewhat to paying for the computers).
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I have found spell check on Slashdot next to impossible.
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It's astounding the number of people get locked into the mindset of doing things *only* a specific way.
If the thought is taken to paranoid extremes, it makes one wonder how we will advance as a civilization at all.
My stepdaughter can use any PC as she has been exposed to not only MS crapware, but Linux, and OSX to get things done.
It doesn't have to be a religious OS matter, just a practical matter.
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Wordperfect was never very popular on Amiga, people tended to prefer graphical apps like Kindwords, Wordworth and Final Writer... The Amiga as a whole was generally geared towards graphical apps.
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No, that's the goal of a vocational program (like shop class).
The goal of a typical computer class is the same as that of school in general: To educate citizens so they can successfully assume responsibility for running their country in the future. This is reason we have public education.
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Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually this is a fallacious argument.
I just pointed out yesterday that kids can learn any OS. Keep in mind that I (along with all my peers) grew up in a world without windows and yet still managed to learn. In fact, I didn't even see windows until I was 19 and in college. That's when Win 2.0 came out and I thought it was - erm - mostly harmless.
My seven-year-old and five-year-old sons have no issues moving from my Vista laptop to my wife's Win2K desktop to my openSUSE laptop and desktop and to my mom's openSUSE desktop or to my father-in-law's Macintosh. Unless you're gonna teach kids how to administer Win2K3 workstations, then there's no issue.
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Hear! Hear!
The root of the problem (no pun intended) is the inability to break out of the MS mindset of how to do anything.
Claiming that due to MS's coverage of the market making it the standard is all BS, and admitting defeat.
Save all of the 'but I have to use windows at work" whining. So what! Use something else at home. Get your kids involved in MS alternatives. Our generation is too hooked on the MS Koolaid.
Kudos for you doing so....how do we get the rest to do so.
Teach your kids to learn, not
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Can you think of anything in Windows that couldn't be figured out by someone who has been trained on Linux? My point is this, the sheer amount of software available out of the box in many linux distros allows you to use many different software programs [open office, Koffice etc..] so after a while, you generally g
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Why do people use this?
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Most people use Windows yes. However with the GUI changing (just look from XP to Vista), training students on an outdated platform of Windows is worse then teaching them *NIX. Because most Linux/Unix GUIs don't need to be new for the sake of being new, most skills acquired on KDE 1 can be transferred to KDE 4 with little problems, and the same with Gnome.
Given the differences in look and feel that can exist between KDE installations *of the same version*, your assertion is ridiculous on its face. Anyone
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stuff scrolls right and left. Sometimes when I go back to it, the same catagory is open, so I have to go button -> left -> scroll up and down for what category I want (defaults to very small) -> click catagory -> click application
Due to it's memory what I am looking at is slightly different every time I do this, and because it scrolls up and down, I can't to it by muscle memory at all. It is a change more jarring than from XP to Vista, th
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And what will they learn in those classes? They'll learn how to use a mouse, they'll learn how to cut and paste either with the mouse or with control keys, they'll learn how to navigate in a GUI. Then they'll learn how to use a word processor and a spreadsheet. The techniques will be exactly the same as they'll use in the Real World if they end up usi
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You got it so spot on. These school kids are going to need real Windows(r) skills when they're ready for work in five to ten years.
So will the next generation and the generation after that. I learned all about registry hacking when I was in grade 3, 1982 I think, and boy, I'm so glad I did.
What's the use of Linux desktops? If windows has been good enough for the last thousand years, it's good enough for the next thousand years.
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Um, No. A wide range of enterprise servers run Linux or gasp Unix based Operating Systems. Knowing your way around the shell, and administration is a major asset. Never use again, are you kidding me. If they grow up lea
The Philippines can only afford Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
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> If the true goal of a computer program for a school is to ready its students for the workplace, then is linux really the best method of doing so?
It's not the worst - where kids can't do much of ANYTHING on computers (i.e. only run office and some ed games) because the educators are so afraid the computers will break.
> Isn't the school in some way doing its students a dis-service my training them on a computing method that they will very likely never use again?
Many of us long-time geeks learned on Ap
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If the true goal of a computer program for a school is to ready its students for the workplace, then is linux really the best method of doing so? ...the ability to navigate microsoft windows is almost as essential as any other office skill.
Isn't the school in some way doing its students a dis-service my training them on a computing method that they will very likely never use again?
1) The purpose of an eucation is not to train users to use a particular product, but to learn particular skills
:-To use an operating system, to use a word processor, to learn programing languages, to learn how to acquire information and apply it.
These skills may include
To promote good values such as honesty and integrity. Some of the things you should learn in school.
2) Teaching useless skills, yes it could be a disservice , but to take myself as an example I learnt word processing in several programs wor
Who knows what students will use in the future? (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, Linux in such a context ("to ready students") isn't a method. It can be a tool (and so can Windows) of a given method. And the method can be adequate or inadequate.
As to the method, who knows what students will use in the future? At work or at home?
Schools (if they are not to be short-sighted) should enable students with skills that will allow th
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Your question is quite valid, and worth consideration. However, the inverse could also possibly be true, and one of the core disputes I have with community colleges and many high schools of today, that being:
How much ar
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I am not overly surprise with the "Oh it's not like Microsoft" attitude it is always interesting how people will say they have a Microsoft product that does not have an equivalent Linux (note I did not say open-source) product and I normally take great delight in pointing out a commerc
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Virtually every GUI out there is an iconified program launcher with some pretty picture file manager. Some details may be different, but I have a hard time believing that young Abdul who learns
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I even work with computers.
So no - the ability to navigate microsoft products is not essential.
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One trains animals, one teaches people. One trains Office, one teaches text processing.
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Eight years ago, I was planning for my wife (a health care professional) her first PC, and I thought that the purchase of an iMac would be the most user friendly and logical choice. But her criticism on that plan was (along the lines of your story) that at work she would need to use a Windows PC, and then with a Mac at home she would only get confused. So, I got her a
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If the true goal of a computer program for a school is to ready its students for the workplace, then is linux really the best method of doing so? Isn't the school in some way doing its students a dis-service my training them on a computing method that they will very likely never use again?
As a (future) educator, I think that this attitude is actually the greatest disservice both to students and to schools.
No, the computer program is not supposed to prepare the students for their workplace. Especially not in the sense of teaching them to use a certain bunch of programs that they are going to use once they get a job, and even more especially not in primary school.
Computer classes, just like physics or chemistry or maths or language classes, are not there to prepare kids for any kind of wor
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You really need to teach concepts in school, teach the kids what they're looking for rather than where specific apps keep those options. Whatever they learn in school today will be obsolete by the time they start work anyway.
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If the true goal of a computer program for a school is to ready its students for the workplace, then is linux really the best method of doing so? Isn't the school in some way doing its students a dis-service my training them on a computing method that they will very likely never use again?
I do agree in principle, that is, if one happens to live in a developed country with a stable IT-infrastructure, well-entrenched in Microsoft products. A lot of small to medium business here in the Philippines use pirated MS XP+Office (plus other MS-based products) but an awareness about piracy and open-standards has been steadily growning. When there was an anti-piracy crackdown a couple of years back, quite a number of those companies made the switch to Linux. Some were partial conversions, the others we
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If by using linux they learn about dependencies, compiling, advanced use of CLI, proper system of permissions and the advantage of proper documentation. I think they'll do just fine with the 'next...yes I agree...next...next...finish why the hell doesn't it work' nature of windows.
The best thing about linux, is that encourages you to attempt to solve the problem on your own.
When a problem occurs on windows, and you don't have an internet connection to search the forums, you're pretty much screwed.
Aft
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Yeah, these kids need to know a lot of stuff Windows will teach them:
You are not one of the biggest linux geeks, (Score:2)
Schools are centers of education, introduction to science, culture, civic duties and general betterment of the individual.
Schools are not peddlers of the flavor of the day when it comes to technologies. And for goodness sakes, do not tell me that moving icons, cutting and pasting, is a s
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I now know that I was wasting my time with all of those obsolete luser computers and that they have prevented me from getting that high paying hi-tech job that I've alw
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Someone who knows the general concepts will find they easily transfer to Windows or Mac OS X. GUI driven operating systems all work pretty much the same way. Writing a document in OpenOffice isn't appreciably different than in MS Office. The concepts are exactly the same, only the widgets are slightly different.
Linux is the best method of doing so because it will free up money that can go to paying teachers.
Your argum
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If the true goal of a computer program for a school is to ready its students for the workplace
Nope. The true goal of a computer program in school is to teach students how to program a computer.
Do you have any idea what Filipino schools are like? The private school I sent my stepson to for first grade had a "library" of five books, one of which was a college-level introduction to Shakespeare. (The local public was slightly better, but its library was still a sad, mostly empty room).
I hit the roof twice that first year. The first time was when their school-wide fundraising drive was to buy a tent
Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Insightful)
Stupid Apple. Stupid schools.
All that time spent learning apps and stuff on a Mac was totally wasted.
Re:don't hate me (Score:5, Insightful)
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About fucking time! (Score:4, Informative)
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13000 already done. Time to be surprised.
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Nobody is perfect (Score:1, Flamebait)
It would have gone faster... (Score:1, Troll)
at least, this is a step in the right direction (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of the public and private schools here only computer textbooks that is only related to MS products. What I find funny is that, they can't afford to buy those Office suites and operating systems in the first place, yet they are teaching them. There is nothing wrong with teaching it but then again it boils down to the fact that they had to pirate these software just to be able to practice what they teach \ learn.
Recently, BSA had been hot on companies and large educational institutions here, I have seen some smaller educational institutions switch most of their OS to Fedora since they could only afford to show a number of licenses. There are also raids conducted on local internet cafes but the rumor is that, they are not BSA but the local NBI units trying to make some money. Because of these factors, most cafes that only offer printing and internet surfing switched to Linux also. The only cafes I know in our area that run windows are those gaming cafes and those located at known malls.
Yes, we had been pretty much dependent on MS as a nation. At least this is a good step in the right direction. Even though DSL is pretty much affordable by middle classes here, the combination of OS and Office seems to be much, many just pirate them leading to numerous unpatched systems that are always online, coupled with users who only know the basics.
On second thought, we should really do something about the whole educational mess we are right now. Not just regarding computers / technology.
Or is resistance futile?
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http://digitalfilipino.21publish.com/janette2/archive/2005/09/01/1ib3vbfqkvzhv.htm [21publish.com]
Note that one of the people who respond to this blog entry claim that neighboring countries who *don't* collaborate with the BSA get huge discounts from Microsoft.
While this was going on, the big complaint from my friends over there who use internet cafes wasn't that linux was bad or hard to use. The complaint was that the linux version of yahoo chat didn't allo
She (Score:1)
Me FOSS (Score:1)
Where can I sign up? (Score:1)
Ballmer will be flying out there next week (Score:1, Troll)
The Steve will roll the corporate jet out there and drop some democracy on them...I mean meet with the leadership and promise them $3 XP, hand out some training coupons, take them out to a strip club and get them good and boozed up. They'll come crawling back.
Oh, yeah.
I've used Linux for years and no one has ever flown out here and taken me to a strip club. Not once.
Humph.
They tried that! (Score:2)
Which means they can afford to go to a strip club anyway.
My only concern (Score:2)
Good move (Score:5, Informative)
Di bale kita, di bale (Score:2)
that some of it should reveal itself as racism isn't surprising in the least
don't feed the troll, nor even be disturbed by his presence
browse comments above the 2 or 3 threshold, or get some mental bleach
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If you're a Filipino, what is your opinion of this disturbing approach by Microsoft to the Filipino press:
ZDnet Asia about MSOOXML [zdnetasia.com]
I had to laugh at the quote
Supporting a local distro? (Score:3, Interesting)
( http://bayanihan.gov.ph/ [bayanihan.gov.ph] )
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Beautifull Quote: (Score:2)
There. That just about sums it up.
bloodless revolutions - and linux (Score:2)
Specifically, they had two bloodless revolutions (EDSA I and II, ousting Marcos and Estrada, respectively). Manila is catching up with India as a location for call centers (kahit sino diyan alam mag English/everyone there knows English). There is a wind farm in northern Luzon, where a coconut biofuel plantation is going in, too.
PS. Mr. Ricardo Gonzalez, post here if there's anything stateside people can do that
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You hear that Mr. Ballmer? (Score:3, Interesting)
That is the sound of inevitability.
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Won't make any difference (Score:2, Informative)
Every business is still tied to windows, and every kid's PC at home is still windows (God forbid you give them a PC that can't play Ragnarok!)
Trying to find a computer reseller that will sells pre-loaded boxes with linux is needle in a haystack work.
If you want to really effect change, then you need to change the thinking of the chinese filipi
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