Where Linux Gained Ground in 2007

christian.einfeldt writes "Computer scientist and media maven Roy Schestowitz takes a look at platforms where GNU Linux gained the most ground in 2007. In a thorough review which is the first of a two-part series, Schestowitz looks at trends in supercomputers, mobile phones, desktops, low-end laptops and tablets, consoles, media players and set-top boxes. Schestowitz finds that GNU Linux solidified its dominant grip on supercomputers; made huge gains in low-end laptops and tablets; won major OEM and retail support on the desktop; gained new entries into game consoles; and also spawned new businesses in set-top boxes while holding its ground in pre-existing product lines. He sums it all up by saying that '2007 will be remembered as the year when GNU/Linux became not only available, but also properly preinstalled on desktops and laptops by the world's largest companies.'"

Not on the Wii.

[webmaster404]

Linux can not be run on the Wii as the article suggests. It can be run on the Wii in Gamecube mode, but it has no Wii funtions.

Re:Not on the Wii.

[sxpert]

running homebrew in wii mode was demonstrated at the CCC congress. check the video about the xbox360 security breakeage

Re:

[larry bagina]

it doesn't (yet) run linux, though.

Re:

[webmaster404]

Homebrew is possible (as proven in the past few days) but Linux is not. And even homebrew hasn't progressed beyond a few proof of concepts.

Answer

[StarKruzr]

I believe the GameCube has memory protection, so I'd imagine the Wii does.

Roy is a bit of a nutjob...

[flydpnkrtn]

I understand that there is "telling it like it is" and not pulling any punches, but if you've read http://boycottnovell.com/ [boycottnovell.com] for more than a day you might start to think that Roy Schestowitz is a little bit paranoid... there are several people in the open source world that have openly argued with him on his blog, because he has made baseless accusations without factual evidence.

See http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/25/gnome-foundation-ooxml-ecma/ [boycottnovell.com] for an example of this... Jeff Waugh (of the GNOME foundation)

Linux FTW!!!!

[advocate_one]

I took the hard disk out of my broken Packard Bell laptop (daughter had spilled cola over it and it refused to work again) and put it into my Sony VAIO laptop... started it up and it booted perfectly into KDE... absolutely no problems at all... and all the hardware was different... different mobo chipset, different processor, different graphics card.

We were able to rescue all her data and coursework that she'd been working on when the accident occurred...

Out of curiosity. when I tried to boot the windows XP

Re:I sense some bias...

[Miseph]

While I too doubt the estimate that the number of users running Linux has doubled in 2007, I don't doubt it by much. I know that between 1/1 2007 and 12/31 2007 I have seen more new people install and run Linux than any other year in my memory, and I have not seen any of them abandon it after a few weeks or days. The very fact that user survey participation on Linux specific sites has more than doubled is a strong sign that, even if the actual number of users didn't double, at least the number of people interested in it has, and that's big. If only Dell would take their Ubuntu machines off of the separate page and let us install it on more than two models as a drop down alternative to Vista/XP (with a big warning dialog to scare clueless buyers away from a product they probably don't want) I think 2008 would definitely see the number of Linux desktops double.

Just as importantly, I've seen a massive move toward non-MS products even on Windows machines. My college has Firefox installed on virtually every machine, and I can't even remember the last time I saw an open IE window; I've even seen a few installs of OpenOffice next to Office 2007 on the least frozen machines. The more cross platform apps gain steam, the less reason anyone has to pay the Microsoft tax, and the less likely people are to actually do so.

So yes, doubled is probably an exaggeration, but it's definitely been a banner year for (GNU/)Linux and FOSS in general.

Re:I sense some bias...

[me at werk]

I think you're close, but not fully there. If Dell gave users an option to install both with dual boot setup easily (which might require license haggling), it could be bigger. "No worries, if Linux isn't good for you, switch back to Windows by rebooting!" It's working for Mac, isn't it?

Re:

[Ambidisastrous]

It gives Dell something to do in the customization step, too. When I set up Ubuntu+XP for my parents, I added a shortcut/bookmark in Nautilus and the Places menu to the "My Documents" folder on the XP partition (rw access). So all their documents are available from both OSes, they don't need to learn much about user home directories, Dad has easy access to Excel, and Mom isn't plagued by the various anti-productivity measures built into Windows and Norton Antivirus For Home Victims.

This has been a good solu

Re:

[westlake]

I know that between 1/1 2007 and 12/31 2007 I have seen more new people install and run Linux than any other year in my memory

The key word here is "install."

That word - particularly when spoken on Slashdot - usually translates to "technical specialist or hobbyist." The Geek or would-be Geek.

or, to be less charitable, "my sister, my brother, my mom and dad."

Re:I sense some bias...

[Daengbo]

How about this, then: for the first time in ten years of using Linux, I was asked by someone else to install it. In fact, two different people requested it. That' definitely different

Re:

[ricegf]

We hosted three Christian youth workers from England in our home a few months ago. They all had laptops, of course, but to my surprise, the laptops ran Ubuntu. When I expressed surprise (because I usually see technical people running Linux rather than Christian youth workers), one of them looked at me with a puzzled expression and said, "Linux doesn't crash so much."

I guess he told me! :-)

But I, too, noticed a much broader cross-section of the "normal" population discussing and using Linux than befor

Re:

[aichpvee]

I haven't seen a single person install Linux all year.

You should come out of the basement more often. Your mom installed Kubuntu upstairs 4 months ago.

Re:

[Hatta]

the idea that the Linux on the desktop has doubled in 2007 is absurd.

Sure Linux on the desktop doubled, now there are two users!

Re:

[Charles Dodgeson]

the the idea that the Linux on the desktop has doubled in 2007 is absurd.

I bought a much bigger display in 2007, so my desktop has nearly to doubled.

Re:

[Technician]

I like Linux as much as the next person (and use Ubuntu on 2 desktops), the the idea that the Linux on the desktop has doubled in 2007 is absurd.

An of those desktops, how many were you using in 2006? I had played with a couple distros before last year, but they simply were not a replacement for anything. Last year I converted my old PIII machine, an IMB Thinkpad, and put Ubuntu on my new homebuilt Core 2 Duo box. In the process, I have helped a bunch of people switch. There are many who abandoned old ve

Re:

[fwarren]

Meh, it is not that hard to double.

In 2007 I put my wifes computer and a friends computer on Ubuntu. Also a co-worker in tech support who wanted a system as tweaked as mine was for responding to support issues.

So in December 2006 there was one Linux desktop. Now in December 2007 there were 4 Linux desktops.

If 25% of the community introduce 3 or 4 people to using desktop Linux in year, it would double every year.

That may not be sustainable. But there are enough dedicated linux desktop folks at this p

Re:

[samkass]

I agree with you in general. I've pretty much been Mac-only at home since 1988. However, as a Java developer the Mac is obviously very, very lacking. In addition, the hardware is frustrating-- no 2nd mouse button (why can't they do a Mighty Buttonbook?), no dock, no 2nd monitor out (which I get with a dock on my work Dell).

If I wasn't so tied to Macs, I'd be seriously thinking about a Dell right about now.

Re:

[nacturation]

In addition, the hardware is frustrating-- no 2nd mouse button ...

Yeah, Linux shares the same problem. I installed Linux on my PowerMac and it only had one mouse button as well. It's too bad there aren't any third-party products which would alleviate this problem.
 

Re:

[abigor]

How is OS X lacking in Java development? A part of my bread and butter is enterprise Java stuff, and I do it all on a MacBook. What am I missing exactly?

For years, it was impossible to develop with Java on Linux because all of the implementations sucked so badly. OS X made Java development on a Unix box bearable (note that I'm not a huge Java fan, but whatever, it pays the bills).

As for the mouse thing, the OS supports multiple buttons, so I just use my Microsoft mouse. I'm not sure if I've ever even used a

Re:

[abigor]

Yeah, I never used a Mac before OS X, but I believe you. Don't forget that the Java that gets shipped with OS X is Apple's, not the BSD one. And anyway, with the GPL'd Java, all those half-baked free alternatives (Blackdown, etc.) will hopefully bite the dust, and the cross-platform thing won't matter as much.

As far as the actual development goes, though, IDEA + vim + Quicksilver (which is unique to OS X) + Umbrello (soon to run natively, rather than under X) + iTerm + Parallels (for when I have to deploy t

Re:

[Divebus]

No 2nd monitor out? If you're using a MacBook or iBook, the 2nd output will only mirror the display but the PowerBooks and MacBook Pros will certainly drive a second independent monitor.

Re:

[Kymermosst]

Yes, but those of us that want a real ****ing button with a real tactile click are out of luck. Especially people like me who think the pad is for pointing, the buttons are for clicking.

Until Apple sells a laptop with at least two (preferably three) independently clickable buttons, I'll never get one.

Oh, and a USB/bluetooth mouse or trackball is not an option. The point of a laptop is to have everything you want built-in. Ever try using a mouse on a plane?

Re:

[Kymermosst]

I suppose technically the keys are buttons. :)

I want three mouse buttons!

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Re:

[EWIPlayer]

Article nor the summary says that.

Google is your friend... I'm being general.

Unix is not important to me, I also don't think the majority of people who use Linux, use it because they want something Unixy.

Wow... well, I think you just might be wrong there.

Tons of high quality third party applications and you are going to mention OS X? Can I have what you are smoking?

What do people do most of the time? Photo editing, surfing, word processing, spread sheets, movie watching, music playing, IM,

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Re:

[account_deleted]

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Thanks

[John Jamieson]

I wanted to say thanks, I have appreciated your well written posts.

BTW, You may not be responding to a mentally whole person when they start to "feel sick" from reading your rebuttals.

Re:

[John Jamieson]

Excuse me?

This "troll" is making DIRECT point for point rebuttals, staying on topic and providing background for his points. He shows a technical knowledge far superior to the parent.

If you don't agree with the points... prove him wrong. This is not like a fanboi who writes "I used product X for years, but product Y is better and everyone should switch" - now that may be trolling.

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Re:

[StarKruzr]

Colloquy.

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Re:OSX...

[Divebus]

The biggest drawback for Linux isn't the platform or OS, it's all those dumbass Klingon sounding names for the applications. Fix that - and for god sake don't make people use a perl script to install it - and you might be able to claim more inroads into general public market share. People don't WANT to use Linux, more people just don't want to use Windows because they've realized how treacherous it is. The iron is hot.

For that reason, your instincts are good for OS X because I've seen many people switch off the Windows platform in 2007 and never look back. They love their Macs mostly because the OS leaves them alone to work plus they've discovered all the software that comes with it. If you are the kind of person who can install any Linux flavor and be able to answer the question "ok, now what?" then Linux is for you. That excludes the vast majority of people who just want to use a computer.

Re:

[EWIPlayer]

People don't WANT to use Linux, more people just don't want to use Windows

That's a brilliant observation and it's one I tend to overlook, but you're totally right. People don't necessarily want to use Linux, OSX, freebsd, Joe's OS, but they simply are tired of using Windows and desperately need an alternative. OSX doesn't immediately run on their Windows hardware, so the next choice is Linux.

Thanks for the insight.

Re:

[Stormwatch]

The biggest drawback for Linux isn't the platform or OS, it's all those dumbass Klingon sounding names for the applications.

Someone once said... programmers should never be allowed to choose the name of their apps! XD

Re:

[Stormwatch]

I'm having some difficulty here, please give me a klingon lesson and tell me exactly which names you're referring too.

Try anything related to KDE...

Re:

[Divebus]

all those dumbass Klingon sounding names for the applications

Abiword, Cinepaint, Gimp, Inkscape, Open Office, Scribus, Firefox... please give me a klingon lesson and tell me exactly which names you're referring too.

You picked a few names that showed SOME thought. Tell someone using Photoshop on a Mac that you're going to replace it with Gimp on Ubuntu and they'll give you a shot in the chops just for the names. GnuCash? Kopete? Pdftk? Xournal? nGhost? GnoTime? PyCoCuMa? Feisty Fawn? Gentoo? (ok, that's a breed of Penguin)... pyBackPack? Kdissert? Zune?.... oh wait.

Whom to blame for gn- prefix

[tepples]

You picked a few names that showed SOME thought. Tell someone using Photoshop on a Mac that you're going to replace it with Gimp on Ubuntu and they'll give you a shot in the chops just for the names. GnuCash?

GnuCash and GnoTime follows exactly the same pattern as AbiWord. Gnu and Gno are prefixes alluding to the GNU and GNOME projects, and Cash or Time is what the program tracks. If you want to blame somebody for the gn- prefix of "gnu" or "gnome", blame the Indo-Europeans for using words built on gno- for "to know" (incidentally, Germanic kn- comes from IE gn- through Grimm's Law), and blame the Bushmen for using !nu to mean "wildebeest".

Zune?.... oh wait.

Likewise, "Xbox". Worse yet, "Xbox 360" means three PlayStation control [jk0.org]

Re:

[Divebus]

The name iPod wasn't unexpected because iMac, iMovie, iTunes etc were already out as marketable names. It was less alien than half the GNU, GNOME and KDE based names. Really, when Joe Consumer browses the software menu, something with an upbeat, descriptive name that costs money may look more attractive, competent and mature than some "I'd like to buy a vowel" named software.

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter what something is called. A great name won't save a shitty product and a good product will usual

Re:OSX...

[Anonymous Coward]

You want Unix and a production quality desktop with tons of high quality third party apps with a buttload of real-world usage? Stop waiting on Linux and switch to OSX... What you want is here, now.

And yet, we're not "waiting on Linux". We're using it on our desktops today. What does that say?

Forget about all of this "It's got to be 'free', man" stuff and just recognize the fact that it has to work, and work well...

I saw a NeXT cube when I was in college, and I thought it was the greatest computer ever ... until I saw a Pentium-75 running Linux 1.0 (without even X). I suggest that it is you who are ignoring the elephant in the room. We've seen Mac OS X. We've used it. We've developed for it, and played games on it. And we still want Linux! We are not so shallow to think that if it's Unixlike, then it has all of the benefits of Linux. You can put our words in 'quotes' and pretend that we talk like stoner-dudes, but it does not change anything.

I realize that if you've been setting up hundreds of Linux boxes, you're probably just ranting, and want nothing more to do with something called "Linux" no matter how good it is. I could tell you that these days it's pretty much "insert Ubuntu installer CD, reboot, press return" (you don't even have to give away personal data like on the Mac), but you wouldn't hear me. That's OK. We'll still be here in 20 years if you ever decide to come back.

Re:

[Max Threshold]

What, so I can pay $250 a year for updates that break my apps? Riiiight...

Apple and Microsoft both need to stick to hardware.

Freedom.

[babbling]

Freedom is the main reason a lot of people use Linux.

Re:OSX...blue screens alot

[rubycodez]

my daughter has OSX, sure it's cool and I can do Unix admin tricks to manage it remotely from my GNU/Linux box, but the truth about Mac OSX is that it's slightly too bleeding edge and unstable. Fork out $120 for the latest version of Mac OSX and things bring in return. And MacOSX has issues with my favorite coding language.....

s/bring/break

[rubycodez]

things break in return

Re:

[aussie_a]

I'll move to OSX the second I don't have to throw away my perfectly usable hardware.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Haeleth]

That might be today. Check out the OSx86 project. It might not work for you but it's worth a shot.

Yeah, very nice, I'm sure. But I can run Linux on my hardware legally. Unlike some people, I prefer to respect copyright holders' wishes and only use their intellectual property in the way they desire. Come back when I can run OS X on my hardware without violating the EULA.

Troll Alert - or user is dated.

[John Jamieson]

I remember this guy, he has been a big Mac Pusher for at least the last two years. If you have not been using Linux during the last six months, you are out of date.

The other rebuttals will take care of your actual errors.

Re:

[John Jamieson]

Well, I am sorry we will not see eye to eye.

10 years in Linux means nothing to me, heck, I have played around in it for that long as well. The fact I started using apple products 22+ years ago is as relevant as your 10 year old Linux experience (It is not relevant). Linux for the desktop is progressing at a much faster pace than any other OS I know of, thus it is the distro's you've done in the last 6 months that count.

I naturally recoil from people who seem to be fanbois, repeat corporate marketing mantr

apples and oranges

[John Jamieson]

The guy knows nothing about tech if he tried installing Red Hat on a home computer.

The guy knows very little if he decided to use Debian as a newbie.

A beginner like him should have bought a Linux compatible computer(try dell). That is what we do when we buy a MAC! THAT is why it just works(we overpay, and have few choices).

Maybe he could have even used a newbie friendly distro... say Mandriva or (cough cough) Linspire.

Re:

[John Jamieson]

"he did choose the three most popular flavours, I believe". This thread is about Linux on the desktop, so NO he did not pick the three most popular, let alone the three best suited.

But, if you really know what you claim to about Linux you ALREADY know REDHAT is a SERVER OS. You already KNOW that since Linux is the most diversified ecosystem you can find, ANYONE could find distro's that are not appropriate.

You KNOW that Apple supports VERY little hardware, and you HAVE to buy the hardware with the OS... bu

Re:

[jcast]

OTOH, I can say that switching from KDE to MacOS X is one of the worst mistakes I've ever made. From the feature levels of the default applications --- mail, audio, pretty much everything but the web browser --- it feels like moving back to Windows. The great thing about Linux is that the best applications come right out of the box. If you tell me iTunes is the best audio player for MacOS X, you're lying. Running Amarok in X11 is superior.

Re:

[EWIPlayer]

I don't disagree at all. But I'm not much of a GUI user so it's not a question of switching from KDE to OSX... I used to use ION [modeemi.fi] as my window manager because, personally, KDE was brutal and ION gave me a buttload of great features and stayed the hell out of my way. Now, switching from THAT to OSX has been painful, but it's been totally worth it. I don't "fiddle" with things anymore ... hell, I don't even have printing working from my linux box because it requires me to screw around with a bunch of crap t

You are Soooo out of date

[John Jamieson]

OK, now I think the Linux distro's you installed were ALL a decade ago.

Hey, even Corel Linux (remember that one) handled USB ports. Now, almost 10 years later I can tell you I have NEVER had to "modify fstab to get my USB mounts working right" or install something that can play mp3's ... etc.

Man, the distros I try just work out of the box. In fact, if you want something that "just works", some of the Linux distro's come with every codec you can think of. Files that the average Windows and OS-X user can't

Re:

[Billly Gates]

The problem I have with OSX is that its a bad programmer platform for anything non mac or web.

Mono is not on OXS yet (I could be wrong) and Java under Leopard is really not support that well or at all anymore. Even a simple JOptionpane will not display the title of the applet or program.

ALso what about using KDE and gnome libraries and apis? Sure you can run X but its not that well support or integrated with aqua.

Linux is still ahead in these areas but OSX has the apps like Office and photoshop so it depend

Re:

[Daengbo]

I'm not a follower of Stallman. I only know what I see as the result of OSS. The FOSS movement in Thailand when I lived there did real good for the country. OSS gave the country a way out of piracy, putting it back in the good graces of the WTO. The software offered real opportunities for localization so that young people who had never studied English could learn to use a computer without a dictionary. Before the Linux movement there, even adults with the standard, required education had real difficulty usi

Re:

[John Jamieson]

Well, I am glad Linux lost another "Linux zealot", the linux camp does not need people like that.

If you think "freedom" or restrictions on it can be segmented into parts of life you are mistaken. A society that accepts restrictions on freedom in one area is much more ready to give it up in another. Maybe that is why the U.S. is slipping into facism?

You realize what you write about Richard Stallman is LIBEL? If he is as bad as you say he is, you just caused yourself a lawsuit that will bankrupt you. I be

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[account_deleted]

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Re:

[pestie]

I run all the source games (includes half life 2 and all it's episodes, portal, hl2 death match,, team fortress 2) just fine, Steam and so on just fine under. I hear World of Warcraft runs quite well too.

Under what? So tantalizing a sentence, yet the most important word is left out...

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Re:

[misleb]

I have plenty of applications that don't run on OS X from older versions of OS X. Windows Vista has issues running some older Windows programs. As for Linux... I can't think of a time EVER when a LSB program didn't work.

Considering that LSB only dates back to 2001 and only covers a relatively small subset of total system functionality, your anecdotal experience is less than impressive. What most commercial vendors end up doing is one of 3 things:

1) Statically link binaries
2) Include all the dependencies f

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Re:

[misleb]

I can build applications against the Windows 2003 SP1 platform SDK and they certainly will not work correctly on Windows XP SP2 (Having done this myself, runtime errors popping up randomly are most common to happen in such cases).

The question is, why would you do that when targeting say, Win2k, is adequate for most applications?

If I build applications against the latest Windows XP SP2 platform SDK. You will also find that running them on Windows XP (no service packs - a 2001 OS) will likely cause these ap

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Re:

[misleb]

If you're running XP with no service packs in 2008 you're going to have a lot bigger problems than running apps from a developer who doesn't know how to target his Win32 applications for maximum compatibility.

I find that argument amusing. That is like saying, "This isn't a problem with Windows because the insane amount of issues have forced you to update!" -- Yet apparently Linux doesn't quite give you enough issues to force you to update -- but because it isn't perfect, it's bad.

I'm not saying Linux is "

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Re:

[misleb]

The fact remains that installing major packages targetted for one distribution on another distribution can be tricky at best. Hell, even trying to run packages on an older version of the SAME distribution is often hit and miss.

The question is, why would you do that when targeting say, the older version of the distribution, is adequate for most applications?

See what i changed there. Nice!

I know you thought that was clever when you wrote it, but it doesn't work in reality. Linux is such a fast movin

Re:

[rsmith-mac]

EVE-Online for Linux is just a custom tuned version of Cedega packed with the normal EVE client for Windows. It runs like shit and frankly is pretty buggy at times compared to running under Windows, so I wouldn't consider that a gold standard.

Re:Easy Answer

[Vapula]

1) running Windows games on Linux
I've personnal experience of playing GuildWars flawlessly under Linux using Cedega. Cedega also supports World of Warcraft and other games making it probably much better than Wine (well, I should check on this one, lots of progress have been done) and CrossOver Office (which wasn't meant for games in the first place)

About Linux commercial games, you forgot about NeverWinterNights, and some promising products like Planeshift. And the upcoming "project Apricot" (Blender Foundation and CrystalSpace).

2) Audio
Very few sound engineers rely on only ONE program. Most of the time, they switch from one to another depending on the task they've to do. Don't forget that SAE is behind Ardour... They would not lose their time and money with it if it was useless...

3) compatibility
Linux rely on some standard components like openGL, X11 and the kernel. If you want to distribute some closed source binary, you may statically link those libraries which may be a problem.
Source distribution don't have many problems thanks to the autoconf and automake.
Did you already try to run some old Windows 3.1 softwares on Windows XP or Vista ? Often, Windows 98 applications don't run under Windows 2000 or XP.

4) ESD, aRTS, JACK,...
Well, ESD was GNOME, aRTS was KDE and JACK was for Realtime with low latency... You forgot about OSS and ALSA, GNOME/KDE and lots of other similar duplicate efforts.
GNU/Linux is also about choice... something lots of people have forgotten since the old ages...
COMMAND.COM or 4DOS.COM ?
Sound Blaster or GUS (now, most of the time, it's the onboard sound card)
EMM386 or QEMM386 ?

If you're "computer illiterate", you don't mind about what's installed and go with what the system install (aRTS, ESD, what are those things ?)
If you know what you're doing, well, you will choose the one which suits the best your needs...

I agree that there is still lots of place for improvement, but when I look back to the old time of Linux 0.99pl10, yggdrasil (CDROM) or SLS/Slockware/MCC (floppy) installs, the X11 Config file to build by hand (with a calculator and the specs of your monitor), very basic keyboard support (US qwerty, FR azerty and DE qwertzu, nothing more),... the way behind is much bigger than the way ahead...

Lately, I had to install a brand new computer in dual-boot Windows/Linux. Linux didn't need any extra driver but Windows needed lots of extra drivers (Video, sound, network,...). Security updates were also much faster to install under linux (and they included lots of apps, unlike Windows)... So, unless you need some specific software or plan to use the computer for gaming, Linux is going to become a better choice than Windows... Truly PnP !!!

Re:

[EWIPlayer]

4) ESD, aRTS, JACK,... Well, ESD was GNOME, aRTS was KDE and JACK was for Realtime with low latency... You forgot about OSS and ALSA, GNOME/KDE and lots of other similar duplicate efforts. GNU/Linux is also about choice... something lots of people have forgotten since the old ages... COMMAND.COM or 4DOS.COM ? Sound Blaster or GUS (now, most of the time, it's the onboard sound card) EMM386 or QEMM386 ?

All I can say here is that you seem to be missing the point. It's not that such things don't exist, they certainly do. All of the different types, the different implementations and flavours are all very nice and fun to have, but they simply don't measure up - they *really* don't. OSX CoreAudio and CoreMIDI are engineered properly. There's only one choice and you only need one choice. It's fast, it's clear and concise, it requires ZERO (read that word very carefully and then ask yourself how much work

Re:

[Xabraxas]

Musicians write and perform music and the apps themselves are designed to let them do that with a minimum of hassle. Do you really think that any pro musician wants to spend any time whatsoever setting up the OS audio, let alone even having to choose which audio code to run, when OSX requires nothing of the sort and outperforms Linux anyways?

First of all ARTS and ESD are being deprecated and OSS has been deprecrated already so take them out of the picture. Linux can do low latency scheduling and in comb

Re:

[mr_mischief]

If the goal is "my audio workstation set up just the way I want it" and Apple's software doesn't feel quite right, you might be surprised how many people will take the time to learn to set up their own stuff. People who point out the costs of commercial software in terms of money are often dismissed with the "pros don't care if it costs money" line. Well, I'm pretty sure pros have been known to invest time into projects when they couldn't find a way to fix things with money.

Commercial software has the visib

Re:

[misleb]

Did you already try to run some old Windows 3.1 softwares on Windows XP or Vista ? Often, Windows 98 applications don't run under Windows 2000 or XP.

Oh come on! Windows 3.1 is from like 1992!

So, unless you need some specific software or plan to use the computer for gaming, Linux is going to become a better choice than Windows... Truly PnP !!!

If you consider building from source PnP...

-matthew

Re:

[Stormwatch]

An SP2 installation is going to work on a 99% of the computers out there and maybe popping in a driver disk from the mfg or letting it update from M$. In any case, it's usually pretty simple. You CANNOT say the same for linux.

Installed XP Pro SP2 on my new computer. No network, no proper resolution for my widescreen monitor, without installing the drivers that came with the motherboard.

Booted with Ubuntu 7.10 CD. Network and proper wide resolution just work.

Wiped everything and installed iATKOS (hacked Mac

Re:

[BobPaul]

Installing WinXP SP2 I need to hunt down drivers for network, sound, SATA, and video (video works, but it lags when scrolling text, moving windows, etc). Additionally, while not required, there are huge performance gains for installing my nForce2 chipset drivers.

On a Linux install all of this works out of box. The only drivers I've ever needed to install manually (and sometimes fight with) are the proprietary 3D driver WLan drivers, but even those have been non-eventful recently. Both the nVidia card on my

Re:

[philicorda]

"If you're choosing low-latency professional audio recording, which one do you pick?"

Jack. As none of the other servers are intended for low latency professional audio recording.

"SAE is behind Ardour? Great. But who's behind them, who's doing the back-end that makes low-latency multitrack possible?"

No one needs to do the back end because it's already been done.
I've been doing low latency audio on Linux for about five years or so. The first RT patches for Linux appeared some time in the 2.4 series.

If you wan

Fragmented mess?

[betterunixthanunix]

People who say that a problem facing Linux is that there are too many distributions and too many different ways to do things have the wrong perception of what an OS is. Different distributions are different operating systems, and expecting binary compatibility across different OS's is folly regardless of what kernel is in use. That's why systems like automake/autoconf exist, and standard API's like POSIX, exist, so that source code can be recompiled on different platforms without too much pain.

"Linux" is not a single operating system, it is just a kernel. The kernel can be run without GNU utils, without X11, etc.

Re:

[usurper_ii]

I think a lot of different distributions is a good thing, but I think everyone is going to gravitate toward a few dominate distributions, and the rest will end up as niche products.

Usurper_ii

Re:

[aurispector]

You just nailed it. How many different linux os's are there? "Linux", in it's perpetual drive to get everywhere at once, will fail to get anywhere. This is precisely what I hate about "linux".

The problems associated with this massive fragmentation can only be solved if one distro takes precedence. Frankly, I don't think Ubuntu can do it. Sure, it works great when it works, but look at wifi - if there's a problem you have to SUDO everything and go back to the command line of the 1980's. Ubuntu desperat

Re:

[mhall119]

How many different linux os's are there?

None, just like there are no Mach or NT OS's out there. Windows is an OS, OS X is an OS, Ubuntu is an OS, Fedora is an OS, Suse is an OS, Linspire is an OS.

Now think about it like this: Write one driver for windows, one driver for OS X, then just one driver that covers all of those others.

Or how about software: Write one version for Windows, one version for OS X, then just one version that covers all those others? Even if you have to account for differences between Ubuntu and Fedora, they are minuscule c

Re:

[Kelbear]

Diversity as a quality taken by itself is definitely useful. However, in this case it diversity is bringing up cross-compatibility issues. If software works on one fork of diversity, but fails to work on another, each fork has been locked into that road, resulting in less diversity everytime a fork is made.

Windows definitely has limitations that Linux OSes can offer(I definitely prefer this alternative to the Windows Startmenu and startbar/systray), but in terms of software, Windows has more compatibility w

Re:

[mhall119]

Look, you bought a stripped-down version of Xandros for an ultra-portable device, you shouldn't expect it to work like a desktop OS. You don't expect WinCE to run all of your Windows apps, do you? Well the OS that comes with the EEE PC is essentially" XandrosCE". I'm sorry your Linux experience hasn't been as positive as you had expected, but your expectations for it are way above your expectations for those "commercial OSes". For a good measure get a recent version of Ubuntu or Fedora, install it on a

Re:

[rastos1]

My EEE PC is a small offshoot of Xandros 4, an offshoot of Debian. I want to run Ventrilo which has been made to work for Ubuntu

You missed the point of the parent post [slashdot.org] completely.

You want to run Application X that was built for OperatingSystemA and you wonder why it does not work with OperatingSystemB.

I might wonder why my LinuxApplicationX does not work on MS-Windows. In fact I might wonder why IIS works on Win2003 Server but does not work on WinXP Pro (hint:because the vendor puts roadblocks in it).

Re:

[VGPowerlord]

We have Parallels for Mac OS X, which seems to be quite capable at running Windows programs at a decent speed, with good compatibility. What do we have on Linux? Wine? Crossover Office?

WINE is a compatibility layer. Not surprisingly, it isn't perfect, particularly not when compared to an actual virtual machine. If you want to compare apples to apples (excuse the pun), try VMWare, Xen, qemu, or bochs. Heck, there's even a specialized version of VMWare for OSX, VMWare Fusion, that you could compare it to.

Re:Easy Answer

[entrigant]

Where are the commercial game ports for Linux? No one wants to make them, obviously, save for the FPS crowd (and there's only an Unreal Tournament for Linux because Epic passes the buck to Icculus to get the job done, not because they have the in-house talent to do it themselves). There are a few commercial games for Linux, yes, but only a few, and there's very little variety between them. In the open source world we have a few good games (the majority of them being FPS's, what a surprise), Battle for Wesnoth if you like strategy games (turn based ones, that is). Then we have the unfortunate, ugly ripoffs like "Secret Maryo Chronicles," and other games that look like they were developed for a C64. Plenty of selection, not a lot of quality.

The following publishers develop comemrcial linux games:

http://www.pompomgames.com/ [pompomgames.com]
http://www.garagegames.com/ [garagegames.com]
http://www.introversion.co.uk/ [introversion.co.uk]
http://frictionalgames.com/ [frictionalgames.com]
http://sillysoft.net/ [sillysoft.net]
http://www.basiliskgames.com/ [basiliskgames.com]
http://www.guildsoftware.com/ [guildsoftware.com]
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ [shrapnelgames.com]
http://www.rune-soft.com/ [rune-soft.com]
http://grubbygames.com/ [grubbygames.com]
http://www.caravelgames.com/ [caravelgames.com]
http://www.planewalkergames.com/ [planewalkergames.com]
http://www.graalonline.com/ [graalonline.com]

There are also the high profile ones such as neverwinter nights, the doom and quake series, unreal, etc.

There are many high quality independant titles such as neverball, you mentioned wesnoth, crimson fields, flight gear, torcs, the spring project, total annihilation 3d, tecnoballZ, powermanga, tile racer, pingus, clonk, freeciv, ultimate stunts, planeshift, scorched3d, VDrift, silvertree (not complete, but being created by the wesnoth guys so likely will not be vapor), ufo: alien invasion, scourge, etc.

http://spring.clan-sy.com/ [clan-sy.com]
http://www.wesnoth.org/ [wesnoth.org]
http://torcs.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
http://www.flightgear.org/ [flightgear.org]
https://icculus.org/neverball/ [icculus.org]
http://ta3d.darkstars.co.uk/ [darkstars.co.uk]
http://linux.tlk.fr/games/ [linux.tlk.fr]
http://tileracer.model-view.com/ [model-view.com]
http://pingus.seul.org/ [seul.org]
http://www.clonk.de/ [clonk.de]
http://freeciv.wikia.com/ [wikia.com]
http://www.ultimatestunts.nl/ [ultimatestunts.nl]
http://www.planeshift.it/ [planeshift.it]
http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/ [scorched3d.co.uk]
http://vdrift.net/ [vdrift.net]
http://www.silvertreerpg.org/ [silvertreerpg.org]
http://ufoai.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
http://scourge.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

Many of these are very impressive independently made free games. Perhaps they lack the multi million dollar marketing budget and won't make your geofrce 8800 gtxz 45 x super elite ultra melt, but theya re *fun* games, and they are numerous. Also keep in mind this publisher and free game list is only what I could find in 1 hour of searching.

Then there are freed older commercial games such as warzone 2100, homeworld, descent 1 and 2, doom, quake, etc.

Lets not stop t

Re:

[AlexMax2742]

Nice commercial game developers you have there. Unfortuniatly, none of them are well marketed (except for Introvision, but they're the exception, not the rule), plus their word-of-mouth advertising doesn't get nearly as much 'airtime' in the open source community as truely open source project. So they might as well not exist in the minds of the public.

Not that open source's offerings are any better, mind you. Most of them are poorly cobbled together and rely on "HOLY SHIT ITS OPEN SOURCE" word of mouth i

Re:

[rxmd]

I will say that when the foss community puts their weight behind something, you can usually expect results.

True. Usually you can expect not only results, but multiple incompatible results, with major flamewars going on between them on licensing issues and minor technicalities. Examples include free Unix-like operating systems, desktop environments or Linux package managers.

Competition and choice can be good things, but so is coherence, and excessive partisanship, fragmentation and compartmentalisation o

Re:

[misleb]

We have Parallels for Mac OS X, which seems to be quite capable at running Windows programs at a decent speed, with good compatibility. What do we have on Linux? Wine? Crossover Office?

There's VMware for Linux, which operates more or less the same as Parallels. So really, OS X users are not much better off than Linux users when it comes to WIndows apps. What OS X DOES have is MS Office and high end professional apps such as the Adobe suite.

Apple has the best of both worlds on their platform -

The only two w

Re:

[ajs318]

Distributions are still a fragmented mess, it's incredibly difficult to produce a binary for Linux that will work across all distributions (especially with Gentoo and their whole CFLAGS fiasco...thank goodness that fad died off).

Indeed ..... and it's even more difficult to produce a binary for Linux that will work across all distributions when you factor in that Linux runs on other hardware architectures besides x86.

As much as you'd like to complain about Windows and Apple, binary compatibility is not a p

Re:

[ajs318]

Distributing the source code makes it much easier for the user of proprietary software to edit out digital restrictions management subroutines. This is a show-stopper for many publishers of proprietary software.

True, true ..... Look how many distros apply a certain patch to XPDF! However, DRM won't be around forever ..... it's a fundamentally flawed concept and once people realise that, its days are numbered.

Besides, it doesn't guarantee compatibility, as what runs on one machine may die (e.g. a PC runn

Re:

[BobPaul]

We have Parallels for Mac OS X, which seems to be quite capable at running Windows programs at a decent speed, with good compatibility.

You don't seem to understand what Parallels is. Parallels is the same as VMWare, kqemu, or VirtualBox... all of which run fine on Linux. Parallels still requires you run a full blown Windows virtualized and doesn't get significantly different performance than the other VM products that run on MacOSX.

To be perfectly fair, Parallels Workstation DOES run on Linux, it's just not the same product they sell for MacOSX (ie, no "Coherence" mode).

Re:

[rufus t firefly]

Professional audio? Don't even bother. ESounD, ARTS, JACKD, now PulseAudio seems to be the big name in useless sound daemons...but that doesn't mean everyone will standardize on it. As if we needed yet another sound daemon anyway. If the Linux kernel is supposedly so "flexible" that it can be used in any range of devices from computers to cell phones, then why is it that 18 years or more later after the first release, there -still- isn't an easy way to do very low-latency, high quality audio recording on L

Re:Easy Answer

[Kethinov]

[quote]Making software that works right out of the box requires a grown up sitting at a desk working their ass off 40 hours a week getting paid a nice fat wage.[/quote]

This is why most of the best open source software is written by people who work for a company which derives its profit from elsewhere.

Re:

[ryanov]

This F40PH?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH [wikipedia.org]

Re:

[Charles Dodgeson]

Now imagine a Beowulf cluster ...

"pain and suffering"

[smittyoneeach]

You're right: learning and knowledge are completely overrated, and intellectual curiosity is merely some historical fiction.

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[account_deleted]

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[account_deleted]

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[account_deleted]

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