Novell Linux Business Spikes Since Microsoft Deal 147
StonyandCher writes "Novell's divisive deal with Microsoft has apparently resulted in some financial success for the company. PC World is now reporting that the company's Linux business has risen about 250% since the deal was announced last November. From the article: '[Novell director of marketing Justin Steinman] said part of its growth was directly related to the Microsoft deal, adding that Novell has billed more than US$100 million in business through its Microsoft relationship. He added that the growth was also due to the halo effect of the arrangement. "When we're out there competing with Red Hat, [our salespeople] are saying, 'Our Linux is recommended by Microsoft,' and customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows."'"
Maybe there are other reasons (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't know how much novell charges for their Linux but its got to be less than $650 per seat.
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Marketing (Score:4, Insightful)
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Which in turns shows how knowledgeable people in decision positions are. I bet some guy will buy Suse thinking it's a cheaper version of Windows.
Well, they did mutilate the Gnome desktop to look like Windows... Applcations/Places/Settings in the same place as the start menu, "quick launch" in the same place, taskbar in the same place, notification area in the same place, clock in the same place, "Computer" icon on desktop, urine-colored theme, etc.
When I tried 10.1 it felt like a very slow, cheap knockoff of Windows 2000. Unlike Ubuntu, which despite the baby poop color scheme comes off as a polished* desktop that's not a ripoff of something else.
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(and supposedly MS coders are told not to do some stuff that will break the shared code)
If I had a business that was part MS part Linux I would have a SLED farm just to make sure i could get
THE CODE THAT THE EU COMMISSION SAID I COULD GET
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Re:Marketing (Score:5, Informative)
Ubuntu, on the other hand, requires roughly 3 hours of hacking and coding. Canonical has no interest whatsoever in making it play nice with Windows beyond implementing and supporting SMB.
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Ubuntu, on the other hand, requires roughly 3 hours of hacking and coding. Canonical has no interest whatsoever in making it play nice with Windows beyond implementing and supporting SMB.
Probably because Ubuntu and SuSE are aiming for two entirely different markets? (home desktop users v. enterprise business)?
Sort of like the reason why I wouldn't expect a typical Dell desktop to come with multiple hot-swap drive bays, two built-in NICs, or a RAID controller, nor would I expect a Dell server to come with a pair of GeForce 8800's in SLI configuration, y'know?
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Was just trying to point out that different distros, developed for different markets, do not in fact work equally well (or not well). They are not all created equally in respects to Windows integration.
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Its a shame, since we use Ubuntu on all of our test systems. We would love to consolidate to Ubuntu, because they make it easy to do most other things.
Novell is more than just Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
It offers a Novell client for windows, eDirectory, ZENworks, iFolder, iPrint, Groupwise etc, etc.
These are products targeted at managing Windows (and linux) workstations and servers but through a Linux server.
Novell products integrate seamlessly with Windows and they even (implicitly) solve many of the typical windows problems for you.
SLES on itself, however, does not offer a Windows advantage when compared to other distro's. It is
Nope, Suse does things smarter. (Score:2)
In the long term, Red Hat is going to need a tool like Yast a
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Yes, I agree totally with this. Ubuntu (just to pick one) works beautifully with windows file formats and networking (or mac for that matter) with minimal configuration.
2.
Not
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>>that works with Windows
>Which is pure marketing because all the major distributions work equally well (or not well) with
>Windows.
Makes about as much sense as someone using Windows in the first place doesn't it?
YMMV
FACTS don't mean anything, don't you know? (Score:2)
SuSE is no better or worse at Windows integration than Red Hat or Ubuntu or any other major distribution. Arguably, a purpose-built Linux server made independently of Novell or Microsoft tailored for such a purpose is probably superior to SuSE for such a task. Busine
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HTH.
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
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You must not have had to install and maintain any sort of enterprise software (Oracle and Domino come to mind) on different distributions, or you would know that different distributions are indeed different. Library naming conventions and filesystem layout are two reasons that you only see certain distributions supported f
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Different distros ship different version of libraries, yes. But naming convention for libraries differ from distro to distro ? I do not understand what you talk about here.
And, yes, I have installed "enterprise" softwa
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What's wrong with just providing packages for the standard package manager?
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> certain distributions supported for enterprise applications.
NONE of that matters due to how "Unix in general" works.
Software that comes with 7 figure support contracts is "certified" on only
a few versions of a few products due to simplifying the support process. It's
a convenience for both sides and does not mean that you can't run Oracle 10g
RAC on Ubuntu.
Once you disable the installer's "is this RHEL or SLES" check,
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Of course, if you're running as a single desktop none of this comes into play. When you're administering a few hundred servers and desktops in a mixed environment it's a wee bit different.
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Among security testers (penetration testing etc) Gentoo is about the most prominent distribution, and in other areas where there's lots of highly technical people.
It's because Gentoo offers you a decent level of convenience, while not sacrificing flexibility (linux from scratch is more flexible in some ways, but far less convenient).
You also gain some security advantages from having apps compiled slightly differently to anyone else.
No binary based distribution will
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The few reason you pick is because: useability out-of-the-box (I can't imagine someone new to Linux using Linux From Scratch or Gentoo), package management (do you like emerge, apt-get or rpm/yum?), available packages from vendor and stability/security thereof (one of the reasons people use Debian or Red Hat for servers and Ubuntu for
Re:Marketing (Score:4, Funny)
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"> Alternatively, it appears, you choose Novell's distro because "it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows". Good to see CIOs are making rational business decisions."
Since when is the computer world run based on rational decisions? If it were, we'd have all been using motorola cpus with flat memory spaces, not intel segmented-architecture, people would have realized that Windows 3.0 was, for the longest time, just vaporware, nobody would have bought Windows ME, or Microsoft Off
farmalloc() vs. buffer overflows (Score:2)
Since when is the computer world run based on rational decisions? If it were, we'd have all been using motorola cpus with flat memory spaces, not intel segmented-architecture
As I understand it, the i286 iteration of Intel segmented architecture [wikipedia.org] was intended to give each array in a heap its own segment number. If a program wrote past the end of an array that was allocated like this, you'd get a segfault, not a buffer overflow, and definitely not an 0wn3d PC. It would also have done away with external fragmentation of the heap [wikipedia.org], as the operating system could reshuffle segments to free up space.
MMUs (Score:2)
It's not the job of segment (which are partially application-controlled anyway).
68k had MMUs since 1982 (an external module for 68010) and 1984 (onboard MMU on 68020).
Whereas, Intel only introduced MMUs in 1986 for the i386. (The one on 286 didn't support the necessary function, hence the
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Different distributors can provide different levels of configuration control, testing and validation.
Different distributors can add different value added options (like commercial X or GL).
Different distributors can provide paid support in a manner similar to Oracle, Sun or IBM.
Choices enable customer driven competition.
Debian is used differently than RHEL than Ubuntu than Damn Small.
This story sound familiar? (Score:5, Funny)
Translation 1:
Wow! That "embrace" part was great, and this "extend" phase is fantastic! I wonder what's next?
Translation 2:
Wow! These guards are great - they gave me a delicious meal, and now they're taking me out to meet their "squad!" Wonder why they want me blindfolded?
More seriously: I haven't worked with Novell stuff since this deal was announced. Anyone have any insight as to how much easier it really is to integrate with Microsoft stuff?
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If you think MS has the power to E^3 Linux...
Well, I have this bridge in Kansas, it connects two mountains, and has a great ocean view. Just $1,000,000.00 CAN.
Send me the check/money order, the bridge will be in the mail after it clears.
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Wow, talk about OT.
Really, you think so? If Novell is banking their business on selling their Microsoft relationship, what do you think is going to happen to that business when Microsoft backs out of their deal, and start publicly denouncing Suse's inability to remain compatible?
This really is classic Microsoft strategy, make your competitor's success dependent on your compliance to something (HTML, Java, CIFS, OS/2), then stop complying with it. Microsoft's market weight guarantees that customers will follow them, and not
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SUSE will loose market share, and may even go to the Linux-distro graveyard. But remember, while SUSE is Linux, Linux is not SUSE.
This really is classic Microsoft strategy, make your competitor's success dependent on your compliance to something (HTML, Java, CIFS, OS/2), then stop complying with it. Microsoft's market weight guarantees that custome
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SUSE will loose market share, and may even go to the Linux-distro graveyard. But remember, while SUSE is Linux, Linux is not SUSE.
My post and, I suspect, the original post that started all of this, are talking about Suse, not Linux in general (since Linux in general hasn't signed a co-op agreement with Microsoft).
Linux has a lot more loyalty than some of your examples
True, but Suse really doesn't. Linux may have nothing to worry about, but Novell sure enough does.
If MS is trying an E^3 with this, they might as well try putting their guns to their collective feet, because, they aren't going to decrease the popularity of Linux below what it would have been without their intervention. They may raise it above that level however...
If Microsoft can kill off Novell, and Linspire and Xandros just for fun, I think they will be pleased with the result of their deal. Probably they would have liked to hook Red Hat as well to kill the top 2 commercial provide
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MS might hurt some companies making less than brilliant decisions. So what? It won't hurt Linux.
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Question is, what does that really get you, if you're Microsoft?
It doesn't make Linux in general go away.
Even if we take as granted the idea that Microsoft is evil and focused on the utter destruction of all that is free, this isn't a smart way to do it. They're in a better position to influence the community and drive business their way by supporting Suse than by crushing it.
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Question is, what does that really get you, if you're Microsoft?
It doesn't make Linux in general go away.
It will make a competitor go away. Not just an OS competitor either, just about everything Novell sells is in competition with something Microsoft sells. If Microsoft can get Novell to bet the bank on MS-backed Suse, then pull the plug, it would seriously undermine Novell's business strength, and getting business going again around another product will take years.
Even if we take as granted the idea that Microsoft is evil and focused on the utter destruction of all that is free, this isn't a smart way to do it. They're in a better position to influence the community and drive business their way by supporting Suse than by crushing it.
It is in angler's best interest to let the fish eat the bait, but only for a time. For now Microsoft is backing Suse, because it gets them th
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For the record: I don't.
But I absolutely think that Microsoft would like nothing better than to "control" the growth of Linux by partnering with a major Linux vendor. Let's say as a hypothetical that Novell managed to wrest a sizable majority of corporate/enterprise level business from Red Hat. Do you think that Microsoft would hesitate for a second to put a shiv in Novell's back if they thought it would remove a major competitor?
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Same crap as before, no change on the front lines. You still have a gazillion different management interfaces ( imanager, remote manager, consoleone ). You still have a hodgepodge of software that make up their flagship products ( zenworks, groupwise ). Novell still has a pretty good file server, but actually administrating the software is painful still.
Talk about a PR scam... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Talk about a PR scam... (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux vendors best quarters are the quarters when the financial market looks plain ugly. As a result people presenting projects to CIOs have to start making "immediate savings" noises instead of the usual TCO noises to get budgets approved. As a result the Linux vendors get a jump in revenue.
Disclaimer: I very well knoe that Linux TCO is considerably less than MSFT (as most of Slashdot). I am not a CIO though
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Red Hat is also doing well (Score:5, Informative)
So maybe Novell and Red Hat's recent success is independent of the MS deal.
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Well, if you were to invest your dollar, would you want a 64% return ($0.64) or a 243% return ($2.43)?
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($2.43)?
I'd prefer an order of magnitude better ($6.40).
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Not really. Percentages are percentages. Growth normalized to the size of the company. They may have had more business, but they had more to start with.
Also, note the wording in the article. They have netted $100M in new business, above and beyond what they were attaining before the deal (which granted wasn't all that hot).
Another in
It stands to reason. (Score:1)
One or two customers (Score:4, Informative)
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Do you expect SCO customers to all switch to Solaris or AIX? I sure don't.
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Works with Windows, or MS? (Score:1)
I can only assume that they are actually refering to the fact that this is a Linux distribution being backed by MS, as opposed to 'working with Windows'.
My Beetle also works with my Porshe, as long as I don't try and drive both at the same time.
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Let's try this:
- Your Beetle and your Porsche can coexist in the same garage without starting a fire.
- For some iterations of Beetles and Porsches you can use the same distributor and spark plugs (think the very old 914's).
- They both have documentation available in German.
Got the idea now?
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Clearly a piece of PR puff (Score:2)
"customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows."
Define "works with Windows".
Can speak TCP/IP? Yep, no problem. (I've met plenty of Windows-centric IT people who seem to think networking is some sort of black magic and two different operating systems cannot coexist on a network.)
Can see windows file shares and share files with Windows servers through SMB? Any distribution will do that.
Integrates perfectly with Active
Re:Clearly a piece of PR puff (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not surprised. Getting two Windows boxes to talk to each other on a network is black magic.
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What Microsoft have done to SMB protocol is similar how Orcs where created - twisted, tragic parody of real stuff. Starting from Windows 2000, SAMBA actually are more realible than Windows server, from my expierence (For others it could be different. It is also one element of that black magic
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Meaning... (Score:2)
You have to figure that should another desktop start to take over that MS would just buy them.
Novell's taking advantage of dumb customers (Score:3, Insightful)
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in fact, it's such a popular strategy it's a wonder anyone still falls for it, but I guess as they say, "there's a sucker born every minute", both in governments and in businesses.
"Works with Windows" (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm Bill Gates (Score:1)
Novell - Coming to Xbox Live? (Score:2)
Maybe all the problems with Active Directory is what causes A.I. Rampancy [wikipedia.org]
The oldest story in a book. (Score:1)
It's cool (Score:2)
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No one ever went broke... (Score:2)
Of course Microsoft say..... (Score:1)
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This was the expand. (Score:1)
Suse is the LInux that works with Novell, not MS (Score:1)
SUSE 10.0 is sleek indeed (Score:2, Informative)
It's very nice as a corporate desktop.
Pros:
It has connected to our Directory seamlessly during installation.
All network printers and shares are OK, with correct access rights.
Installation and driver support, IMO is the best among all Linuxen( ~xes?
The domain controller recognized it as a domain member and listed it as such.
Nice and laconic KDE (but the installation defaults to Gnome).
Slack-derived init scripts and layout (well, I person
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Novell apologists (Score:2)
So, please try defending the deal now, where it is clear Novell is actively FUDing against other distros and Microsoft is succeeding in the embrace part of the strategy.
If you want Linux's success go anything but Novell, if you want Novell's success and eventual dead + MS keeping the desktop monopoly go Novell, please, I don't want the apologists to ever say again that the deal was good for Linux, I am tired of reading BS.
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speaking from a marketing perspective (Score:1)
no no no.... novell you got that wrong.... (Score:1)
Well, if you're basically lying... (Score:2)
Gotta laugh at this one. I know the guy really means that Microsoft is saying the SUSE works better with Windows (which isn't necessarily true except in specific areas where they have produced some interoperability), but it doesn't read like that.
Anybody who can say that line with a straight face should dump being a Linux salesperson and go into stand-up.
Or maybe SLES is getting real good? (Score:2)
Based on reputation, it was the opposite result from what we had expected.
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We already have Larry.