Microsoft Gives Xandros Users Patent Protection 298
DigDuality writes "Microsoft, shrugging off licensing moves to prevent it from repeating its controversial patent deal with Novell, has signed a set of broad collaboration agreements with Linux provider Xandros that include an intellectual property assurance under which Microsoft will provide patent covenants for Xandros customers."
Here we go again.... (Score:5, Insightful)
How much were they paid? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm more interested, right now, in how much Xandros was paid for this "deal". Particularly after the problems Novell had with their's. And with Jeremy Allison leaving Novell after that deal.
They know their standing in the community is going to take a hit. So, how much was it worth to them?
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they make, they will die eventually, just as Microsoft
wants.
Money talks, integrity walks.
Re:How much were they paid? (Score:5, Insightful)
First we had the M$+Novell stunt. Then the 235 fictitious patents and now the "deal" with Xandros. Its looking ever more likely, this is part of an ongoing serious tactical move by M$ to damage the name of Linux, by implication alone, that its somehow unsafe from legal action, unless licensed by them.
I'll just quickly paste in a section out from my previous
"Microsoft could well be using this "patent news" in a very underhanded, but very tactical way to scare corporations away from adopting open source tools and/or OS, in an attempt to tip the balance so corporations buy Vista. Non-technical Corporation bosses would be afraid of this kind of underhanded sabre rattling tactic of Microsoft, as they would fear wasting time and effort on Linux and so go the "safe" route of using Microsoft tools & OS. ("Safe"=What M$ tell them is safe)."
Now with this Xandros move, it looks like its part of a bigger overall strategy. It looks ever more likely this is a much more serious tactical move than just sabre rattling to just sell more copies of Vista.
I can only hope organisations and even governments who use Linux, can quickly take serious legal action against M$ for this strategically very devious mud slinging.
If this isn't stopped fast, M$ are going to scare other Distros into signing up and each that do, add implied weight from a legal perspective, in the eyes of non-technical judges, that something is up with unlicensed Linux. Its a very underhanded strategy to imply something is wrong with Linux.
If enough Distros sign up, then M$ just has to say in court "hey look judge, even these big Distros admit there was something wrong with Linux. So now, we want everyone else to pay up".
Microsoft look like they are playing a very big chess game to win control over Linux and it needs to be stopped fast.
Patents (Score:3, Insightful)
Or, it could be that Microsoft recognizes that their Windows market share is at its zenith, and wants to start disarming a potentially nuclear patent war. Sure, Microsoft has a bunch of patents, but how many times has Microsoft been accused of (or actually has been) "borrowing" some *nix code here and there?
Granted, Microsoft could hire an entire state bar association if they wanted, but litigation is a pain and Microsoft's PR is bad enough as it is. Is is possible that there isn't a conspiracy, and th
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They brought the Linux PC to WalMart. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's sad to see how far they've fallen.
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I think Ubuntu pulled the rug out from under them, in large part, though; I haven't used any of their stuff lately, but last time I looked there just wasn't
Re:How much were they paid? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not exactly like that (it's worse). (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems that they'd do it even without the lawsuit protection.
Microsoft seems to just want that bit in there so they can spread FUD.
So, for some money (small change to Microsoft, big bucks to Novell, no idea about Xandros), Microsoft purchases the assistance of a Linux distributor for spreading FUD.
In which case, it is understandable that the rest of the communi
I have a plan .... (Score:3, Funny)
2. Do a "patent" deal with Microsoft.
3. ???
4. Profit!
Dear Mr. Gates (Score:5, Funny)
I'd like in on this. I'm going to create a new distro every day from now until August 7. In exchange for you not suing the people who buy or download it, I'd like you to give me, say, $5 million per distro. I can come down a bit, though.
Re:How much were they paid? (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft continues to lose all credibility as anything other than a "me too" technology company. Microsoft makes money on the kickbacks it dishes out to idiot CIOs and by its policy of designing vendor lock-in into everything they make, not on the merits of their products.
Smart CIOs would ban MS products from the office, not standardize on them.
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Unfortunately, the reputation of a 800lb juggernaut which let others pioneer shallow waters and only comes cruising in where there's an established market to conquer isn't nearly as negative as you might think. Their similar-but-legally-distinct products won't be the best or cheapest, but you know it'll be pushed enough to get a decent market share, the deep pockets to stick around and it'll play nice with your
Re:How much were they paid? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, as a corporate CIO I probably wouldn't ban Microsoft products altogether, but like the former CIO of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I would make sure that using standard open formats were a primary criteria for software selection. With proprietary formats only being used if no other software was available to fill a need.
Using open formats isn't about taking some moral high ground, it is about business continuity and being able to do what you want with your own assets. Nothing should piss off senior management more than discovering that you can't use the data that your own employees have generated over many years just because Microsoft doesn't support what you want to do.
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You've got some good point. However, that's not the opionions of the majority of the CIOs in US. What I'm trying to say is that for the CIOs it is far more important for them to look good while keeping their job, and in many cases their conclusion is staying with MS Prodouct, non-withstanding the Office 2007 and Windows Vista.
What I am saying is that a CIO that actually cares about their job beyond just treading water for a few years while they cash in stock options and make enough money to get out, they need to consider the longer term well being of their company. Getting stuck with Microsoft as an unintended business partner on their terms is not good for your business.
They look far too different for too many average Joe to accpet them. However, Office 2000 and Office 2003 are just fine for most people.
Again, I think this "average joe" view you have is completely wrong. I find it is much more the very few "power users" of excel and the like that are the on
Re:How much were they paid? (Score:4, Interesting)
If the CIO is smart he will minimize his training costs by switching to OO.
Lotus v. Borland (Score:4, Informative)
Let me deconstruct the ribbon patent (Score:4, Funny)
Re:How much were they paid? (Score:4, Insightful)
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And I guess these mysterious patents are pretty widespread and must cover a host of different issues considering:
Under the agreement, Microsoft and Xandros will focus on five primary areas over the next five years: systems management interoperability, server interoperability, office document compatibility, sales and marketing support, and IP assurance.
I would guess that they're mostly interested in server interoperability and syste
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I wrote e-mails as an interested open source/free software developer to Microsoft's Lead Counsel, Brad Smith, but he keeps ignoring me.
Who wants to sue Microsoft for slander of title?
Re:Here we go again.... (Score:5, Interesting)
If Microsoft can chip away little by little at the guys who are selling support services, then it only helps their business.
Of course I could be totally wrong.
Re:Here we go again.... (Score:5, Insightful)
But its not like those customers became Microsoft customers. Or even abandoned linux. The only abandoned Novell.
Why? (Score:2)
First one, then another ... (Score:2, Interesting)
How long before MS "protects" enough Linux companies that it claims it owns
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I like these deals (Score:5, Funny)
I have used SuSe in the past, but I will never again. Xandros I never used and never will.
I don't, and I'll tell you why (Score:4, Interesting)
When it was just Novell, you know they'd be screwed after GPLv3 because they wouldn't have the resources to fork the last GPLv2 releases of everything. But on the other hand, if Novell and Xandros and ??? ('cause at this point I think we can assume MS will continue making deals) get together, there could be significant forks. And that's really, really bad news.
All the people who've been saying "MS has something else up it's sleeve; just wait for it..." have just been vindicated, I believe.
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Re:I don't, and I'll tell you why (Score:5, Insightful)
The point I'm trying to wake is that it MS makes enough shills, they'll become the "community." The GPLv2 fork could become the dominant one.
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Anything that is the results of any forks, has to remain at leastGPL2, unless they get all the contributors of that product to change. Then, any gpl2 work that SuSE et al. do that is actually useful, can be put right back into the gpl3 main of that product.
This is bad how? Very few distros are going to fall for this crap. This nonsense will be over within 18 months, and RedHat, Ubuntu, etc have much longe
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In any case, if "free" software is split into two branches, it's only going to make it harder to convince companies to adopt either one.
Re:I like these deals (Score:5, Interesting)
Now I know that Novell is very impopular now, but I think, that if openSUSE would disappear it would be loss for open source as a whole. And if also Xandros would disappear it really wouldn't be that great anymore.
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Same here.
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I went with Ubuntu in the end. Now I'm glad I did.
~Dave
Re:I like these deals (Score:4, Insightful)
Now I'm using Kubuntu.
As for the OpenSUSE apologists, no thanks. OpenSUSE still exists at Novell's whim, using Novell's resources. Why use that when you can use a distro that has nothing to do with MS?
Re:I like these deals (Score:4, Insightful)
How about OpenOffice? (Score:2)
From their website... [xandros.com]
Office document compatibility. Xandros and Microsoft share the view that competing office productivity applications should, by design, make it easy for customers to exchange files with one another. To that end, Xandros will join Microsoft and other companies that are building open source translators fostering interoperability between documents stored in Open XML and Open Document Format. Xandros will ship the translators in upcoming releases of its Xandros Desktop offering.
Does this mean OO is included?
Divide and Conquer (Score:2, Insightful)
here we go again... (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't really know if this is 'news'. Expecting people to be too surprised at this is sort of like saying "Hey, everybody, another person was killed in the middle east today" and expecting to get responses like "Wow, I didn't see that one coming!" or "You gotta be kidding."
Disambiguation (Score:5, Insightful)
Anybody care to suggest which of those articles is applicable?
Re:Disambiguation (Score:5, Funny)
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Or, in other words, (Score:2)
Selling Out (Score:4, Interesting)
A propoganda step with a little fish (Score:5, Informative)
They took the money that Microsoft offered. That's really all the news there is here - that Microsoft found another foundering commercial Linux distribution willing to sign up to the patent covenant and give it publicity. The technical aspects are irrelevant, as they indeed are in the Novell deal. Xandros is a little fish without significant technology to offer. Even in the case of Novell, nobody needed Microsoft's help with virtualization - the only thing Microsoft can offer is the slight performance increment of paravirtualization for Windowsover the full virtualization that is available now.
There's not much to do about Xandros. They aren't a big player, this isn't going to make them into one. We should turn away from them as was the casewith Novell, but it seems a bit silly since most of us didn't even know they existed.
Bruce
More questions than answers (Score:2, Insightful)
I think the wider implications of this are important considering the FSF have essentially put Microsoft on notice with regard to GPLv3. Is Microsoft really spoiling for a fight or are they just upping their bluff?
Tell Xandros what you think (Score:5, Informative)
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Thanks
Bruce
Question (Score:2)
When Microsoft did the deal with Novell, the money (mostly) went from Microsoft to Novell. They could spin this as "Novell's patents are worth more" or "Microsoft ships far more units". But Xandros can't have much of a patent portfolio, if any. So if Microsoft is paying them, it's real hard to spin. "Microsoft is paying Xandros so that Microsoft won't sue Xandros's customers." Uh, yeah. Why doesn't Microsoft just not sue, and keep their money?
If Mic
Re:Question (Score:5, Insightful)
Xandros didn't have the money to pay Microsoft for this. They were dying anyway.
Thanks
Bruce
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Re:Question (Score:4, Interesting)
Bruce
Re:A propoganda step with a little fish (Score:5, Interesting)
Not at all. You didn't read the Novell-Microsoft agreement. No use of server-client software is safe. No use of systems that send mail is safe. No use of wine, OpenOffice, several other programs is safe. No use of the software on the desktop is safe. And there are some additional ambiguous exceptions that may well apply to anything Microsoft decides they apply to.
Bruce
Andreas Typaldos (CEO of Xandros) is a MORON! (Score:2, Flamebait)
What the fuck was this guy thinking, to make the same kind of deal despite seeing Novell get blackballed by the community? I mean, even Novell should have known better, but at least they might not have anticipated the response. This guy has no excuse.
And what's even worse (for him) is that this agreement, being after March 28, isn't grandfathered in like the Novell deal. From the article:
Re:Andreas Typaldos (CEO of Xandros) is a MORON! (Score:5, Funny)
The difference is that Xandros is a dieing company and a little cashola from Microsoft keeps them afloat a little longer. And too bad for Xandros, Microsoft doesn't own Linux, SCO does... ;)
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Novell may be getting "blackballed by the community" but recent earnings reports show that since the Novell/MS deal, Novell has gained share at Red Hat's expense. The "community" of which you speak might be good at "blackballing" but so what? That community doesn't pay the bills. It's not like you guys actually buy any distros or sign up for support contracts anyway, so you can "blackball" whomever you want. It makes no difference since distros aren't seeing any money from you anyway.
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Yeah, but that community does make the software. If the community gets pissed off, Novell has no more product to sell -- hence the GPLv3.
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Don't be ignorant. The "community" typically has day jobs in the IT sector where they get to recommend vendors. By pissing off the community, they've bought themselves a lot of bad wor
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Maybe... (Score:2)
Two down, how many to go? (Score:5, Insightful)
The game is to knock down the commercial Linux vendors, one by one, and establish them all as clients of Microsoft's "intellectual property". You can bet that the pressure on Red Hat to settle is quite intense. First, their competitors are being subsidised. Second, their clients are being blackmailed.
I've written a more detailed analysis [digitalmajority.org] on this. Microsoft is using software patents to try to take ownership of GNU/Linux and all free software / open source that would be distributed along with it.
Divide and conquer. At the end, the volunteer distros will be left alone to do their work, contributing to the shiny new future, while Microsoft makes sure it gets its 10%.
GPLv3 is being seen as many in the industry as the answer. I think that's wishful thinking. The real answer here is a lawsuit from the government for abuse of monopoly power, where Microsoft is using its monopoly in the desktop area to interfere in the server OS market.
On a related tangent it seems that the Redmond astro-turfing drones are out in force, insulting RMS, calling the GPLv3 all kinds of names, claiming that "freedom" includes the right to abuse other people. Well, drones, suck it. Doesn't matter how much you scream and rant, how much your managers pay you to mess with ISO and push OOXML, Microsoft is either going to learn to "do no evil", or it's going to sink like the Titanic.
Suse is NOT involved, at all. (Score:2)
Re:Two down, how many to go? (Score:5, Interesting)
However no monopoly is an island.
Look at how hard the Microsoft drones have tried to discredit GPLv3 here. There is a steady stream of propaganda: "GPLv3 takes away your rights, RMS is evil, why limit freedom..."
If we - those who are meant to swallow such crud - are worth talking to, then we're not powerless. Microsoft cannot make an infinite number of enemies in a networked world. At some stage it needs friends. And it's got so few left, it now has to buy them.
I'm really waiting for the day when Microsoft looks at Apple's and Google's share prices and realises "being nice could actually make us more money than being evil bastards that everyone hates."
Delusions of grandeur? (Score:2)
I suspect that MS has come to the rather obvious conclusion that most people who post on Slashdot are anti-MS and so it would be a waste of time to try to convince them of anything.
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I sure haven't noticed that in my years on Slashdot. There's tons of MS supporters on here. They're more visible in some stories than others, depending on the topic. They may also be a minority, but there's still plenty of them.
I think it's a common myth to assume that everyone on Slashdot is a Linux fan. I wish it were so, but it'd definitely not.
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I wouldn't know, since I never said it.
Re:Two down, how many to go? (Score:5, Insightful)
My firm makes its money thanks to the GPL. If we did not use that license - for which RMS has earned my eternal gratitude - firms would simply steal our free software without giving anything back. The GPL ensures that we can earn money from our hard work by selling commercial licenses. What kind of business model do you see for "the community" you claim to be part of...?
As for "the tatters of our credibility", you are blaming RMS for a problem that is not there. Free software has never had a higher credibility.
I'll tell you who has lousy credibility... it's ACs who pretend to be part of a community. GNU-slash ruined Debian for you, did it? I'm so sorry for your fragile world.
Patents? (Score:2)
Re:Patents? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Patents? (Score:5, Informative)
"The agreement with Xandros, to be announced Monday, includes a promise by Microsoft to refrain from pursuing patent claims against users of Xandros software."
Protection racket? (Score:5, Insightful)
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In your example of the lawyer, I personally think that is a good reason to change the law. I think the lawyers should be personally punished for pursuing frivolous lawsuits.
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this doesn't surprise me (Score:2)
It's all a big facade (Score:3, Insightful)
Not Grandfathered (Score:3, Insightful)
I was wrong (Score:5, Funny)
Slaves... (Score:2)
For all those who wanted less distros (Score:2)
Re:For all those who wanted less distros (Score:4, Funny)
Hey, can't we all just create derivative distros and have MS pay us to indemnify our users?
Oh, wait... should that have been in 1..2..3?..Profit!!! form?
You're not seeing the upside here... (Score:2)
Linux people have been afraid of Microsoft going on a patent rampage for years now. If Microsoft goes around signing contracts with everyone and their dog promising that if they do go on a patent rampage, said signee will be exempt, eventually they'll have done that with enough people that those who will be left that they can sue (in terms of large entities at least) will be effectively nill.
You might come back and say that any contract Microsoft off
You are Here -- * (Score:2, Insightful)
then they ridicule you
then they fight you --- You are here
then you win.
Jumping from the bush leagues to "The Show" (Score:5, Insightful)
Xandros and a dozen other of what Mr. Perens posted above as "struggling" Linux distributions are struggling because people like myself (MEPIS man, 3 years) consider their $50 or $100 OS price a Grave Decision and hopscotch through various distros (Mandrake, Lycoris and Linspire for me) and probably settle on a totally free one. Like me.
So Xandros and many others have gone over a decade unable to ever meet payroll for more people that can gather around one conference table, with growth flattening after they reach a base of a few thousand home users, a couple of dozen minor corporate installs and perhaps a couple of larger ones.
Then MS comes along, and it's not the direct cash so much as the mere prospect of a CHANCE of being seen as a Serious Corporate Solution that might, just might now get picked up by a couple or six dozen larger installs in the hundreds of desktops each. Slashdot readers might not be scared of the patent boogeyman but the larger a company is, the more averse it is to the prospect of such risks, however small. To them, a volume purchase price of $25 per desktop is very, very cheap insurance against even spending one legal-staff-week on a lawsuit threat.
So a company like Xandros can "offend" a free software community that has been collectively sending it a few hundred thousand a year at most to grab a shot at the brass ring of joining "The Show" and selling thousands of installs to big corporations. Like a baseball player taking a longshot at "The Show" even if it burns all bridges back to the bush leagues.
You can blame them but you should also see their point of view.
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Okay for the short term.
But isn't there a point within the next 60 months when they will have to fork and maintain their own GPL2 licensed versions of vi, gcc, emacs, grep, awk, bash, tar, etc.? If they can't afford a conference table of employees, where will that support come from? Will Microsoft do it?
B-bye Xandros (Score:2)
I liked Xandros...used to like them anyway. It was a nice distro for people who still had one foot in the Windows world. Not sure I even care why they got in bed with Microsoft, they are tainted by the association.
If Microsoft's strategy is to create a clear winner among Linux distributions, they're doing a fine job. Although I'm completely mystified why they would think that was a good idea.
Who knows with Ballmer at the helm.
One other point... (Score:2)
Here's a link to a similar racket (Score:3, Funny)
Buy Xandros, now with immunity from Microsoft Lawsuits(tm)!
Sounds pretty similar to this. [youtube.com]
New Microsoft Strategy (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Give them patent protection hoping people will use them knowing they suck.
3.
4. Profit!!
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Redhat ditched the end-user desktop market because they knew that all the money is in servers. Linux, the kernel, and the