NY Stock Exchange Moves To Linux 272
An anonymous reader writes "Even the old mainframe strongholds, the financial markets, are moving away from big iron. The New York Stock Exchange is one of them, as it's leaving the mainframe for AIX and Linux. They're doing it to save money; it seems that transactions are going to cost half as much on Unix and Linux as they did on the mainframe." The first phase of the transition happened last Monday.
Meme wet dream (Score:5, Funny)
In Soviet Russia, Linux-running, chair throwing, Beowulf clusters of shark overlords with laserbeams on their heads welcome you, you insensitive clods!
Cancel or Allow?
Wait, what are we talking about again?
Modding (Score:2, Funny)
"You forgot to say "I know I'll be modded down for this." 9/10."
They modded you down for that
That ad about Windows on stock exchange (Score:4, Insightful)
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Then again, I typically don't think of MS as a mainframe os provider, usually I think of stuff like VMS, HPUX and AIX.
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I'd be interested to know if someone has any information or more educated guesses on what they probably have.
(Humm
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secure whole-disk wipe applications + band saw.
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I dunno. A fairly moderate Linux server here at the office that cost about $5K several months ago is 16,000 bogomips.
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TFA said 1600MIPS in the first line. Note that they are moving from an old IBM mainframe to AIX on P-series and Linux on HP x86 machines. AIX on P-series is a serious platform, and it's being sold by IBM as a mainframe replacement.
What TFA didn't say was how much was moving to AIX and how much to Linux. I wouldn't be surprised if the move is mostly to AIX, since moving from one IBM big iron system to another is well supported.
Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange (Score:5, Funny)
"Okay, so how do I register the exchange of a convertible bond on Linux?"
"Er... why would you want to do that?"
"Um
"Well, what's a convertible bond?"
"It's where the holder gets a fixed interest payment and then at maturity, has the option to get a fixed amount of cash, or a fixed amount of stock, his choice."
"That's stupid, you don't need that."
"Um, look, dude, people trade them, so the software has to handle it."
"Well, that's really just a bond attached to a stock option. So just enter it that way."
"Yeah, but in the financial world, it's one transaction."
"Okay
"Holy **** dude, this is a common transaction, why do I have do go through all that every time someone buys a convertible bond?"
"Well, people don't even really buy them that much, do they?"
"I give up."
umm, not quite... (Score:3, Funny)
should be
"Okay
OK, yeah, that's a decade ago, but it still seemed funny to me.
Great tip! (Score:3, Funny)
Hey, I typed that in the command prompt and Windows became a lot faster! What did
Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange (Score:5, Funny)
It's Ironic... (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's like a bunch of cars proclaiming that they use a certain brand of sugar to flavor their gasoline, because it makes them run smoother.
Moves away from big iron is more accurate (Score:5, Interesting)
They are not "moving to Linux" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:They are not "moving to Linux" (Score:5, Insightful)
So I would say they're moving from Venti Iron to Grande Iron.
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Just like DEC VAXen, DECpaq/HP Alphas & Sun SPARCs, the IBM System P comes is a huge range of configurations, from the deskside p185 up to the big honking p595i.
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/p/hardware/highend/
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You must be new here...
Really? The NYSE? (Score:5, Funny)
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hmm (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
i disagree (Score:3, Insightful)
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Good point. (Score:3, Informative)
And even so, if they're clustering it then you'd expect they'd build in node failover and monitoring, so a hard freeze should trigger a watchdog and someone goes and kicks it in the head (if that isn't automated). And you log it, just in case a node is actually
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A high-performance transaction processing system is likely to require "esoteric" hardware. Like extreme processor counts, high-throughput I/O subsystems, TCP/IP offload, InfiniBand clustering interconnects, hot-swap memory and CPUs... the sort of things hardware vendors support only on Z/OS, AIX or Solaris (and maybe Windows).
Which HA software? (Score:2)
It's things like application processes hanging, zombie processes etc which can make HA a bit dicey. Not to mention admin error.
Linux stability issue fud .. (Score:2)
What stability issue, and do you have an citations for major data loss because of the stability issue. Is IBM fibbing when it refers to its legendary stability.
'One of Linux's claims to fame is its legendary stability [ibm.com]'
'Manufacturer moves to Linux for stability [computerworld.com.au]'
'As the manufacturer had already used Linux, it was aware of its great stability [cxolinux.com]. SAP, combined with IBM and Linux offered the best deal
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You can fix stuff AFTER trading hours. So even Windows on decent x86 servers would be OK.
If you have stuff that MUST run ALL the time with absolute minimal downtime (including even scheduled downtime) then that's a different ballgame.
That'll be stuff like VMS clustering or Tandem and then you're talking about st
Begin the invasion (Score:4, Funny)
what was it on before? (Score:4, Interesting)
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They're still using IBM servers and IBM's Unix (AIX) along with HP servers running Linux. This is not a loss by any means, there will be fresh new maintenance contracts for IBM plus the cost of the servers and training of employees on AIX.
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hint: get your aix cert and you will be in high demand for at least the next decade. NYSE is not the only place looking for experienced AIX admins, most major financial companies have a few AIX systems sitting in their dungeon. if you have experience, you will make a pretty penny.
the last three places i worked at that had AIX had a constant theme; managers were looking for a GOOD AIX admin and were willing to pay well into 6 figures for it. co
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Licensing Fees (Score:5, Insightful)
Good move for the NYSE.
Re:Licensing Fees (Score:5, Interesting)
They don't enjoy it, though - they have to stock a zillion old parts for a zillion old architectures, they have to train new guys on stuff that was obsolete before they got out of diapers.
They gradually crank up maintenance fees to "encourage" you to upgrade to new kit that is easier to support.
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The software we ran got more expensive as the system went faster. I never quite understand that pricing scheme, since the software didn't actually do anything NEW.
You bought the more expensive IBM OSs, those ones have less NOPs compiled in.
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The 400's reliability however-- is very real. If I ever have a large enough system that has to "just work", it goes on the 400. Stuff that only has to work 99% of the time- that's okay for PC's.
However, IBM is decimating their own ranks by offshoring and outsourcing their AS/400 customers. It earns them some money now for service
It's Annoying but Somewhat Logical (Score:2)
NY Stock Exchange Moves To Linux (Score:5, Funny)
Happy to help.
we're DOOMED (Score:2)
Wait, isn't that where Latveria [wikipedia.org] is located?
Career Opportunity (Score:3, Insightful)
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Other zOS skills are more useful, particularly the Sysprogging skills like JCL, console commands, rexx, TSO and ISPF.
The Linux skills to have in this area are the System Admin ones like bash scripting, setting up Apache and other server stuff, using ssh, etc.
Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a little surprised that IBM didn't manage to sell them on a new mainframe, or at least on its own clustered solution; or that they didn't ditch IBM completely and go with somebody else (what I'd suspect if somehow someone at IBM had really stepped on the wrong foot).
There's not a whole lot of information in TFA about their old system, which actually sounds like it must be fairly neat; it's only described as a "1,600 MIPS mainframe" and then from context it's clear that it's an IBM of some sort. Another surprising thing is that they complain that the software licenses for it, among other things, are prohibitively expensive -- you'd think that IBM, in danger of losing a mainframe customer completely to commodity kit, would cut them some sort of a cheap-or-free deal on the software just to keep them around and on the support contracts. (I really gotta wonder if someone really boned this up; I mean, if you can't keep a mainframe contract at a place like the NYSE, really, what are you doing?)
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Indeed. It's a bit of a strange migration. To pick another detail, why are they switching system management software at the same time? The Tivoli software they were using will manage Linux and AIX just as well as it manages mainframes. Thr
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In News Yet To Be Released News (Score:4, Funny)
The savings comparison seems misleading (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the author of the article got into a tangent with him about how many transactions they do, and what their operating costs are and then incorrectly made the correlation that there is a cost-per-transaction from a computing stand-point. That can't be true. You don't insert fifties into the A: drive.
Look at it this way: If they make the big switch, and all of a sudden they can handle double-the-transactions per day - that would halve the cost of transactions. Only there's not going to all of a sudden be double-the-transactions. They're still working with the same number of transactions.
If they halve their staff, and they do the same number of transactions than that halves their costs. But what if tuesday is a slow day, and they only do 60% of their normal business? They're still paying for all the staff, electricity and third party support.
Am I wrong, or is it unlikely they can correlate a cost per transaction in this case?
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CPT is a common metric in financial industry. (Score:3, Informative)
It's not the greatest metric in the world, but it does provide some ability to compare "efficiency" across systems. But it's a little misplaced in all but the most predictable workloads, because it's not like your operating costs are really going to fluctuate with the number of transact
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Problem is, transactions are following same exponential growth pattern as... CPU speed... but faster.
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An alternative to the above is th
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And while it's 'just semantics', in a financial article it's sort of the entire point.
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hence a correlation
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But saying there's a correlation between infrastructure and doubling of transactions is incorrect. If you run two programs on windows, does your cost per program go up? Would you ever bother figuring out what your cost per cpu cycle was on a home computer?
There's a correlation, it just happens to be completely useless.
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I've said that multiple times.
Way to point out what everyone else and myself have already agreed on, hours after the fact.
cost per transaction is a horrible metric if the equipment is a one-time fee.
I think that was the obvious, stated multiple times point.
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Cost per widget should scale, at least to some degree. If you're making 9000 at a cost of $1 each, and 10,000 still costs you $9000 - your cost per widget math seems redundant and useless.
NASDAQ (Score:4, Informative)
NASDAQ is an M$ shop (Score:3, Informative)
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Re:NASDAQ (Please mod DOWN parent) (Score:2)
To quote Keanu Reeves, "Whoa" (Score:5, Interesting)
Now that's service. I realize it's only compiling one code into another form but being able to take the code, compile it into what you need AND still have it work correctly in a 24 hour period is no easy feat.
If nothing else, other firms will look at this migration to an aix/linux platform and see the cost benefits of doing so. After all, if the NYSE has done it, it can't be a bad thing.
Will They be Passing Those Savings On? (Score:2, Insightful)
I think another post is onto something:
1. IBM screwed up the relationship so badly that the NYSE is walking away.
2. IBM has some other, greater, revenue opportunity.
3. Something is going on inside IBM where the sales people can steal each other's customers.
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Thin on details - Unikix has been around time (Score:2)
Sweet! (Score:2)
And I'm sure they'll pass those savings along to the consumer.
Misleading Headline (Score:3, Informative)
actually it's aix (Score:4, Informative)
also, i am somewhat concerned by this move in light of the trading disruption at the end of february where the existing (mainframe, i presume) trading systems could not handle all the trades and the data feeds were way behind the actual prices of the securities. i know the nyse is a public for-profit company now, so it's silly to talk about "public interest" but shouldn't there be some regulation about the capacity of their IT infrastructure to make sure that their cost-cutting doesn't cause another 4% decrease in stock market value on an abnormally high trading day?
Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes (Score:2, Interesting)
Enough of the ignorant "Linux is the greatest!" drivel...
They made a bad financial desicion.
Any savings they think they made in the hardware, licensing and support costs will be lost many times over as soon as the system makes a small error or goes down.
This is the reason why financial transactions still use mainframes.
Mainframes [wikipedia.org] are unique in their integration and optimization between the hardware and the operating system they run. It gives you a level of performance, integrity and fault tolerance
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Most of the time this extremely reliable systems are used to host brittle software written in house. You paid upfront a fortune to receive a system which overall stability is lousy. And why? Because some techies who could not grasp the whole stack went out and bought the best of breed system! It is like driving your Rolls Royce to transport pigs...
And yes, I work also for a financial institution. We have mainframes because it is so expensive t
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Well, that's because Linux is an operating system, and a mainframe is a big computer. In fact, Linux runs on some mainframes. Maybe you meant a cluster of PCs running Linux can't replace a mainframe? In that case, it depends on the mainframe and application, but quite often a Linux is up to the job.
> They made a bad financial desicion.
You're right, NYSE and IBM know nothing of financial management. If only they'd come to you for some sound advice before engag
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These machines will (in all likelihood) have very lean customized kernels built for specific hardware device profiles. Wouldn't surprise me to see customized drivers written specifically for said hardware. I can't speak for the HP team, but the SIAC dev teams have some damn smart and capable folks on them. They'll be able to get done
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Hey, you tell it to Google.
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Mission-critical stuff uses HP NonStop (Score:2)
Too bad... (Score:3, Interesting)
As an example, it calculated a person's balance by starting with their opening balance, then went down the vsam file, adding and subtracting amounts, till it reached the bottom and gave the total. This process was instantaneous, even given all the other things it was doing.
Sure there are better ways to do it, like storing the data in a real RDMS, using a trigger to update a "balance" field so it's a quick query instead of a lot of calculations, etc., but I wonder if so much of what we do is simply making the best of essentially a hardware deficiency; the baddest Intel-based Linux box probably couldn't do what this 20 year old mainframe can do, so we make it do the same thing but in different ways.
Working with the mainframe programmers, all Cobol folks, made me think always of that great Dilbert cartoon of the smug Unix guy giving Wally a nickel and saying "get yourself a real computer"
So ultimately it's too bad that mainframes, for all their horsepower, really do resemble, to a certain extent, the moniker "dinosaur" in that their mammoth bulk simply couldn't get them out of the tar pits of cost and space.
The coda to this is that, once you've used JSO on TSO, every Unix command looks like it's written in the Queen's English by comparison.
As much as I like linux (Score:2)
They get raises, bonuses and promotions based on cheery estimations and then leave before the full costs come home to roost.
Still- linux should be a lot less expensive so they have a chance of saving *some* money.
Reality versus Advertisements (Score:3, Funny)
Will the cost savings pan out? (Score:3, Insightful)
I would of LOVED to be in on the powerpoint presentation that convinced NYSE that that dumping their current platform was THE thing to do. It must of been dynamite.
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Fear not the increased efficiency (Score:2)
Re:TWNBWFM (Score:4, Insightful)
MS will be affected only when the wall street firms stop using MS Excel, and that may not happen in my lifetime unfortunately.
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or something
Re:TWNBWFM (Score:4, Insightful)
This Will Not Bode Well For Microsoft
Why? As far as Microsoft is concerned this is either a non-event (they weren't using microsoft before, they aren't now), or a slight move towards using Microsoft (going from a Mainframe to PCs moves them closer to the potential to use Microsoft software).
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Re:TWNBWFM (Score:4, Funny)
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Did I miss any, that's right off the top of my head.
Re:TWNBWFM (Score:4, Insightful)
Incidentally, I used to work for a vendor of trading systems to stock exchanges. They went from being Solaris only, to any Unix or Linux. In practice, everyone goes for either Solaris or Linux. The smaller new clients all go for Linux.
At the same time they have been getting bigger and bigger clients, so they may now be displacing mainframes as well. My clients were all small, so I am not sure what is happening at that end of the market.
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Not a huge deal since they did not use any Microsoft products before, but the fact that they chose Linux and AIX over Microsoft just goes to show that the financial sector wants security and reliability (Hey has Microsoft patented daily crashes yet?). I do not blame them for using Linux since uptime on them tend to be very high (sometimes in the order of years) and does not require a reboot every single time you make the tiniest most insignificant patch."
Those comments right there tell me you are a fanboy
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(Hey has Microsoft patented daily crashes yet?)
Yes, but purely as a defensive measure.
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they patented using their software for use on the NY Stock exchange!
Don't worry (Score:2)
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