Shuttleworth Tells Linux Users to Stop Being So Fussy For OEMs 386
Anonymous writes "Mark Shuttleworth says Linux users may need to stop being so fussy when putting demands on OEMs for pre-installed Linux PCs. CRN finds a response to Shuttleworth that seems to be both amusing and telling at the same time."
Fatal flaw (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason most of us got to be Linux users in the first place was fussiness: we didn't like what commercial OS vendors did with their stuff so we went to open source so we could improve upon it any time we wanted. The average user just doesn't care that much about the OS they're running; vanilla Windows or OS X is good enough for the masses.
If you Venn-ed "Linux users" and "people who can control their fussiness", you'd have very little overlap.
Re:Fatal flaw (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, and that's wrong. This game is almost over. (Score:5, Interesting)
He said we are fussy, without making any judgements. And that this fact would make it harder for Dell to satisfy us.
All anyone cares about is to have hardware with free drivers, from there any distro can be installed. The continued acceptance of M$'s inferior GUI and software for "hardware compatibility" is proof that the vast majority of computer users just want the system to work and will put up with all sorts of security and performance issues to get that level of "convenience". If Dell would select or demand hardware with free drivers, every major gnu/linux distribution would work - that's not hard at all. Picky people are going to reinstall the OS anyway and no one will blame Dell for that.
The of Mark's criticism that sticks is this:
If Microsoft reduces the per-PC marketing contribution it makes for a particular reseller, that puts them at a huge financial disadvantage relative to their competitors. This means that one of the biggest issues a computer manufacturer or reseller faces in considering Linux pre-installations is the impact it will have on the Microsoft relationship, and hence bottom line.
Anti-competitive pressure is what this ever boils down to. It will go away as hardware prices drop below $200 or so, because there's no room for software costs at that price point. That Dell is making noises like this now is good evidence that there's not much room for software costs at the $400 price point. The corporate price point is already there and that's why so many companies are dumping M$. The first vendor to deliver a $200 computer with nothing but free software on it is going to win big time and there's nothing M$ will be able to do about it.
Re:Yeah, and that's wrong. This game is almost ove (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah I agree. I may be fussy about what my computer ends up like, but I can take care of the details. All I need from the likes of Dell is for them to offer something that I know for certain will work with Linux. In that respect I don't think I am fussy at all, and that Shuttleworth is wrong here.
But you know, there's some in every crowd and if Dell were to offer Linux laptops now without doing a lot mo
Re:Yeah, and that's wrong. This game is almost ove (Score:5, Insightful)
If it's a choice between releasing your trade secrets and going broke, most companies will have their specs on the front page of the "wall street journal".
The Open Source crowd get what they want. (libre drivers) Dell get what they want, (more PC sales to that noisy rabble who affect corporate sales), the hardware manufacturers get what they want, (big contracts with Dell) so everyone is happy. With the exception of some chair chucker from redmond.
Re:Yeah, and that's wrong. This game is almost ove (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly! That is the key...
Take that hardware you suggest. Provide a bootable CD meant to test that the hardware is working properly.
From there they have many choices which will be acceptable for reasonable people.
1. Sell the machine with no OS installed. There is no (gratis?) software support. Users install OS of choice. If something goes wrong, vendor tells you to pop in live diagnostics CD. Let it boot
Re:Yeah, and that's wrong. This game is almost ove (Score:5, Insightful)
That hits the mark, yes. And it is *VERY* easy for Dell to find the way so it's good for everybody: certify for Debian "Stable", that's all.
Debian is a known distribution that only uses free software and it's not bleeding edge. In sort: if it works on Debian Stable, it will work with any other. Still, Dell people is corporate, but Debian helps here too. What are the chances for a Debian-certified hardware not to work on RHEL or Suse? I'll bet they are almost nihil, so once certified on Debian re-certify for Red Hat and Suse is nuts. Even more: is the case that you want some hardware certifiable (think PERC)? No problem: Debian is an open community you will find far easier developing open source drivers and have them included on Debian as far as they are good quality than with anyone else that can have their own corporate portfolio.
So let's sort this again. Mr Dell: by certifying Debian you...
1) Will be certifying one of the most popular distributions
2) Will satisfy users of not so well known distributions (if it works with Debian you can bet it'll work with Arch, Slackware, Gentoo... you name it, and that's all that need and can expect users of such distributions)
3) Will satisfy FOSS zealots: if it works on "vanilla" Debian Stable this means it works over true tested open source software with no "small letter" involved
4) You still have an easy path for "corporate" distributions like Red Hat or Suse: since it works with Debian, you have an easy way to certify for Red Hat or Suse.
I don't think it requieres a genious mind to see this.
Re:Yeah, and that's wrong. This game is almost ove (Score:3, Informative)
I seem to remember it wasn't such a huge success... although I could be wrong as I live in the UK and haven't seen first-hand how popular they are, but I certainly haven't read anything about them in ages.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
One, you are theorizing that "M$" adds hundreds of dollars to the cost of a PC. Would you care to back that claim up for us? Do you actually claim that the $200 computer does not exist because of "M$"?
Excuse me for throwing water on that nice bonfire of a discussion ;) But in this country, many biggish (that is, big in the national picture) vendors sell desktop boxes with and without windows preinstalled. The price difference is about 80 euro, or 65 euro or so before taxes. This is across multiple vendors and configuration, so I think this is a fair take on the price hit that windows occurs, at least in this country.
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That is, I'd just like them to add a "no OS" option: people who use Linux generally have strong views about their fave distro, how they'd like it configured, etc. By offering a "no OS" option with no support, they can offer it for less money than the Windows one.
Umm... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Or, if you prefer, you extend it to hardware to say you're fussy enough that you will build your own system rather than buying a Dell/whatever.
Put it the other way around: Dell did not get to be a hardware distributor to satisfy Mr. Dell's fussiness. It was to make a profit.
The rest of the article follows on from there.
Re:Fatal flaw (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Fatal flaw (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fatal flaw (Score:5, Insightful)
And the truth then comes out in Shuttleworth's article. MS tried tying, and was told to stop. So they tried cliff pricing and were told to stop. Now it's giving vendors advertising money on a per-box basis.
There's no law against it, but aren't there laws about monopolies being anti-competitive? Isn't that what got MS into trouble all the times before? Isn't that what they're doing now?
I'm a libertarian (small "L"), and even I can see that government intervention is sometimes justified.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That right there is a problem.
Re:Fatal flaw (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally I'm interested in Dell shipping linux because of two things: first, if they ship _one_ working Linux version, any version, the nature of the GPL makes sure that any other Linux version will also work, or easy to get to work.
Second: For ethical reasons I prefer not to give money to Microsoft, which means I'm through with buying products which entail payment to them.
In the end, any fussiness regarding Linux distributions simply doesnt impact Dell any more than Windows users fussiness about games, applications or desktop backgrounds. I dont care what they ship on it; I want the assurance that the fundamental product will work as expected. Ensure the hardware is supported by available open drivers, ship something reasonably (not too new, not too old) mainstream, and leave the users themselves to deal with their own fussiness.
Mod parent up---Good points (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably the best choice for Dell would just support ONE current distro of the Ubuntu type, or pehaps Mandriva which is a bit less anal about using binary blobs.
This allows ALL supported hardware to work out of the box, and virtually guarantees that ANY modern distro will work on all the hardware in the box, if the user chooses to reinstall.
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That being the case, it's not "much" of the cost, and what there is is passed on anyway. So what's Dell's reason again? Especially when the user upgrades to a more expensive version of Windows and Dell makes even more money on the deal.
Adding a "free" OS means all of tha
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Then improve upon it and stop whining that hardware vendors support it. You can't have it both ways.
The very reason enterprise Linux vendors today (like RedHat/Novell) can sell an OS which is essentially free, is because the open source model is way too fussy for wide adoption and support in the i
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And Linux users are fussy, perhaps. Although just because we are, that doesn't mean we need to be fanatical about which distribution Dell is offering. It doesn't matter too much. What matters is that there just is a preinstalled Linux on the damn thing, because that would be another
and then... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:and then... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:and then... (Score:5, Funny)
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Dell Preinstalled Linux survey (Score:2)
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/co
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Or something.
Wait, what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Would you put up with that on other devices? Like an ipod that requires compiling, or a toaster that needs C statements to process bread?
Re:Wait, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
The computer works just fine out of the box. Pop in a bootable CD and watch it do it's thing, or have fun setting the date in the bios.
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And, while it would be tempting to say "tough shit, they can learn to stick in a disk", you can't expect that of the average user.
The main thing slashdotters would be getting out of this is an exemption from the Micrsoft Tax. As far as OS's go, we're more than capable of formatting and installing what we like. So, the whole choice of pre-ins
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But, if we want Linux to be introduced to the masses then we have to assume the masses won't know enough to install it themselves. So, sell them pre-installed. The cost won't be any different from a naked system. And it'll serve the lowest common denominator of buyer. If you don't like it. Change it, you can. They can't. That's my point.
Re:Wait, what? (Score:5, Informative)
As for DVD players, maybe if you buy them at a fancy electronics store that overcharges for them, they might throw in a DVD. But that's probably the store doing it, not the manufacturer. I've never purchased a DVD player (or VCR or TV for that matter) that came with a movie included.
Re:Wait, what? (Score:5, Funny)
The C64 came with "BASIC V2" and "38911 BASIC BYTES", free!
Man I loved that game.
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Re:Wait, what? (Score:5, Funny)
Wouldn't be so bad, just use a bakefile.
Re:Wait, what? (Score:4, Funny)
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How does that response answer anything? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I agree (Score:2, Insightful)
Pre-installing Windows makes sense from a volume licensing standpoint - the consumer gets windows cheaper than retail. And the first thing I (and ma
Re:I do not (Score:3, Insightful)
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This is true, but you forget that there are many people that would not be quite so picky. Many existing Linux users would likely be happy with an OEM
Re:I agree (Score:5, Interesting)
2. The vast majority of users don't understand that the hardware is separate from the OS. They can't comprehend that another OS will actually run on their hardware. PHB's included.
Which leads us to the conclusion that resellers like Dell are a gateway to _very_ many end users.
Re:Hardware support (Score:5, Insightful)
If they sell it with Linux, you can at least be sure that Linux drivers exist and that you'll be able to get everything working when you wipe the hard drive and install your favorite distro.
Personally, I think laptops with Linux preinstalled is barking up the wrong tree. I'd much prefer if Dell, HP, etc. were to just provide a list of which of their models and hardware configurations include only hardware that is known to work well with Linux. They can provide just as much of a guarantee to me that I'll be able to get Slackware or whatever working without having to take the effort to set up all the infrastructure for preinstalling Linux.
Re:Hardware support (Score:5, Interesting)
1.) Only purchase components for which open source drivers are available, or
2.) Use their purchasing clout to persuade manufacturers to allow developers to write OSS drivers.
In this scenario, I could purchase a machine either with or without the chosen distro and have some certainty that everything can be made to work when I decide to switch to my favorite flavor of the month.
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Just as long as the drivers are freely downloadable from somewhere, other distros can come along and check thier releases against your hardware.
Install ubunto or gentoo or whatever by yourself. (Score:2)
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Better than nothing. (Score:4, Insightful)
Ship ANY free OS, it *REALLY* doesn't matter which, because almost every user is going to end up replacing it, but they must ship *something* that allows people to download their OS of choice (hell, this could even be windows). Computer boots up for the first time with a good list of links to various operating systems and a functioning network card. Experienced users can go download whatever kinky OS is their fetish. New users can make an informed choice. A few recent images of free OS could be thrown on for users without broadband. Maybe even links to offers to buy Windows and Mac OS at OEM prices. Wouldn't that be fair?
What matters is that the user is free to choose, rather than free to choose after they've already been made to pay £100 for OEM Vista.
Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean the quote at the end? Yeah, it's "telling" -- it's telling of how thoroughly garden-variety forum idiots can't even conceive of the possibility that there's something about Dell's business that Dell understands and they don't, and not vice-versa. You'd think that if nothing else, the editors here, as employees of a failed Linux box provider, would understand that.
I think the problem.... (Score:4, Insightful)
6) Which Linux distribution should Dell prioritize on?
Commercial: Novell/SuSE Linux Desktop
Commercial: Red Hat Enterprise Desktop
Community Supported: Fedora
Community Supported: OpenSUSE
Community Supported: Ubuntu
Other
If 'Other', please specify
People complain about several different versions of Windows Vista but you just named 5 completely different builds of a Linux OS, and there are several more I know some niche market people would like to see on that list too (like Kubuntu). Since if you roll out a SuSE based Linux machine several of the others would just say "Meh, I'll order it however and flatten it once I get it" you have a much smaller target audience who would actually buy it.
And until a company can determine that there's a big enough audience who would buy a specific distro of linux on a computer they won't make efforts to support them.
Re:I think the problem.... (Score:4, Insightful)
If you just buy a generic Windows version of said box, the hardware may not be supported.
Re: (Score:2)
If they want the software installed, charge them extra and have the machine redirected to Novell to complete the installation.
It's about the money (Score:3, Insightful)
So, put some kind of non-Windows OS on it. If the software costs money, make sure it goes to the people who make the OS. Don't let Microsoft have it. Personally I'm okay with Red Hat getting a small amount of money for the system that will be turned into Gentoo. Microsoft, not so much.
This is one of the big reasons we want Linux pre-installed -- evasion of the microsoft tax.
I don't get it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Shuttleworth has some good points. (Score:5, Insightful)
He mentions the problem vendors face with the idea of Microsoft cutting some co-marketing funds. I really do not see much risk to Dell from this. After all, they already sell some OS-less (freedos) desktops and laptops (albeit fairly hidden). That to me seems like something for Microsoft to complain about more than selling preinstalled Linux machines. It should be understood that the cost of a pre-installed Linux machine will be more than a Windows machine. The additional software Dell installs on Windows helps them make money.
Shuttleworth also brings up the valid and true point that Linux users are very fussy and picky. Linux users also are very specific with what they want. The problem being that Linux users will want specific hardware and a specific distribution. With Dell already talking about certifying several lines of machines for Linux, I see this problem disappearing completely. If the Inspiron notebook line is certified to work with Linux, then it should be trivial to have Dell install Linux instead of Windows Vista. Dell should decide on a specific distro to support, and preinstall that on the Linux computers. Then, if someone is a more "expert" Linux user, he or she can install whatever distro and version he or she wants. The main issue is that the Linux buyer is not buying Vista.
Careful what you wish for... (Score:2)
Linux drivers are the real key (Score:2, Insightful)
But once they start delivering Linux on Dell machines the
ugly issue of available drivers hopefully goes away...
If Dell were to certify that model xyz comes with Linux pre-installed
then I would know that most if not all of the hardware in was supported!
Yes, I will flatten the machine and install the Distro of MY choice.
But at least I'll know that the hardware in the box will go.
Note to Dell etc...
-------------------
PLEASE supply tar archives of your d
Driver support (Score:2)
Working functionality - vanilla kernel version
Motherboard (POST) - 2.6.17
ACPI Base - 2.6.14
ACPI Sleep S1-S4 - 2.6.19
SATA - 2.6.12
RAID - 2.6.18
Network - 2.6.18
Sound - 2.6.19
Seriously, isn't that the kernels job? If all are supported and the distro version is higher than the listed version, you're all good. Maybe they can throw in some extra info on driver qualit
They should just offer naked. (Score:2)
One of Shuttleworth's complaints is that we even argue about which distribution we want.... again, sell the PC naked and include several DVDs of different distributions.
He complains we're fussy, but that's not entirely accurate - we do want things to be a certain
I can put the CD in my own cupholder (Score:2)
Installation of any popular Linux distribution isn't hard, and hasn't been hard for many years. There are two reasons for wanting Dell to preinstall Linux, and for both of them, there is a need for Dell to go beyond hitting "Next" on a bunch of installation
It's all about the hardware (Score:5, Insightful)
Past that, I couldn't possibly care less what distribution of Linux they throw on it. If it's a distribution I like and am willing to use, then more power to me. If not, "lsmod" and I'm off and installing the distribution of my choice. Either way, I'm golden.
I own a Dell Inspiron 4100, and I remember what a holy terror getting Linux to run on that machine was (with full hardware support). If I could buy a laptop from Dell with a piece of paper that says, "The network adapter uses the 'eepro100' driver," etc., then I would be a happy customer.
Re:It's all about the hardware (Score:4, Insightful)
If Dell introduced a hardware certification programme:
1. They would not have to do any post-sales linux support.
2. Such a programme would have a finite cost-per-system, and would give their product-line a clear competitive advantage.
3. It would buy lots of good karma and word-of-mouth marketing from the community.
4. It would reduce the impediments to widespread Linux adoption - and MS's leverage in business deals.
He's right. (Score:2)
The worst part are that the most vocal are the "I don't want to pay the Microsoft tax" portion. If these folks had their way, what Dell would provide is an entirely separate line of Linux PC's that may or may not run Windows.
That's not what I'd want, for a couple of reasons:
1) I use Windows and Linux, and I'd like to have a computer th
Mark's perspective is upside down... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What I want (Score:5, Insightful)
What I want is machines designed with components that are supported by mature Linux drivers. For almost any given component there are implementations that have good Linux driver support and others that don't. Select only components with good driver support, explicitly advertise this policy with adequate technical information, charge a modest premium for it if you must and give me the same hardware warranty as your other products. Seems fairly simple to me.
That's all I want. You can stop fussing about distros now. That and support lines for Linux; I won't be calling unless your hardware fails.
It's the hardware, stupid! (Score:3, Interesting)
Therefore the best way to go about it would probably be to merely install a minimum system with a small footprint (1 GB max) but all hardware drivers installed and configuered in order to demonstrate Linux compatibility and to allow to check the hardware. The distrib should not matter in this case. Then, the customer can install his favorite Linux distrib and opt to keep the minimum installation as a rescue system.
In the case of Dell, this means: Replace the existing FreeDos installation (which you get when you order a Dell w/o OS - at least here in Europe) with a small Linux system, and everyone is happy.
Angry customer (Score:2)
-Dell? You totally botched up my order! I wanted Damn Small Linux 3 on my PC, not 3 fucking small PCs and a cup of sabayon!
The issue is hardware support (Score:3, Insightful)
What I would like to see is Dell offering PCs that "Work With Linux". PCs that are build with parts that have good support via kernel and userland. Call it "Dell Open PC" or whatever.
The problem with that is lack of common and respected Hardware Compatiblity List for Linux (Linux itself not specific distro). I think we need a body that would take the hardware review it and give it a rating. With clear specifications on how the process looks. And then give status to PCs. F.e. Dell could make a sticker on some set that says "Works With Linux (A)", "Works With Linux (B)*". The first set would tell you that included hardware works well with Linux and does not require closed source drivers. Second set would tell you that most of the hardware works well but you need closed source drivers (of course freely aviable from IHVs) for some components (note the asterisk) and informs you what comonents need closed drivers (like nvidia card, ipw2??? wireless and so on).
Now such body could be a foundation or a commercial entity that is charging for certification process or be founded by Linux vendors. But it should be vendor neutral as possible. OSDL seems perfect for this. I don't see if it is a real business opportunitty, but it could be. With working certification process and good marketing OEMs could earn in such situation.
I think such way would be more sensible approach OEMs selling PSs for use with Linux.
Step 0 (Score:3, Insightful)
Bonus points if you, for instance, provide a first-boot installation option that gives you the choice to a) Install Windows b) Install Nothing (maybe boot to FreeDOS)
Bottom line: you don't have to support Linux users. To get our business, you just have to make it (possible) easy for us to do what we want with the hardware.
It is a great thing for OEMs to preinstall Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
1) This could be the leverage that community needs over driver manufacturers that refuse to cooperate with the OSS community. If OEMs won't/can't ship machines with drivers that support their cards, then OEMs will stop buying that hardware to include in their builds.
2) This becomes an easy entre for new users enterring the linux market.
It doesn't really matter _which_ distro they include, as long as the driver issue gets cleaned up for commodity hardware and new users can use/learn linux without having to install from scratch.
The experts will reinstall anyway, but they will start the reinstall knowing that it is possible to get all of the components working.
The new users may eventually become experts, but they can start learning Unix fundamentals without having to start out struggling with IRQ conflicts, buggy drivers, and difficult configs (X11).
missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
With Linux, the problem is not about which version of Linux Dell ships, it's that they ship some version of Linux at all. Why? Because if they do it right, it means that they have selected Linux-compatible hardware and guarantee that it works in at least some configuration.
So, Dell, please pick a fairly recent but stable version of Linux and ship machines that are preinstalled with it. It doesn't matter whether you pick Fedora or Ubuntu or SuSE, just pick one and ship it. Pay some attention to required drivers (it shouldn't depend on proprietary drivers even if you can find a legal loophole).
That's all we ask.
Re: Shuttleworth who (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm... I think I understand the plan here:
1. Butcher the English language nearly beyond recognition.
2. ???
3. Receive Dell desktop computer with Linux preinstalled.
Re: Shuttleworth who (Score:4, Insightful)
We should not settle down about having a pre-installed Linux option, but we should settle down on what distro.
Specifically I want the following:
A mainstream distro with all devices that ship with the PC supported.
Whatever is easiest for Dell/HP/Acer/whatever within the above constraint is fine.
*Gnome Vs. KDE? I Don't Care (If I want "the other one" I'll change it)
*Emacs Vs. VI? IDK
*Ubuntu/FC6/Suss10.2/Slackware? IDK (though I think the slack may be a bit too geekish)
Give me any mainstream distro, with a desktop and window manager. Give me drivers for all the devices in the box. Make it "nice" to joe sixpack. I'll geek it out myself.
Now what wouldn't hurt is if the community came up with a "tweaked" distro (or even an entirely different build) if Dell would host a repository of
-nB
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Let 'em gear the linux installs toward grandmas and newbies, because the rest of us are almost certainly going to be unsatisfied regardless of what they do. Expecting a hardware company to support a hundred d
Blasphemy (Score:2)
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As someone else already replied to your post, he doesn't mean we should settle down about wanting Linux, he means we should settle down about exactly how we want Linux on those Dells.
Obviously any 1337 user who knows exactly which distro and which version of that distro he/she w
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For all I'll complain about, most Linux distros these day have one thing that they without argument do better than any other OS - install.
Their installers are some of the most effective, useful, and asthetically appealing installers around. Not to metion they are fairly fast. Installation may be part of the experience, but more importantly, it's one of the
Re: (Score:2)
This is posted from my linux laptop, a computer that I use pretty much all day every day. I'd just like to say that I much prefer the experience of browsing Slashdot than I did the experience of installing Firefox. No, it wasn't hard at all, but I still find your statement strange. I run linux largely because I can have as little installed software as possible, as opposed to having to run all the crap needed to support Windows.
It's easy to take a snobbish atti
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Also having pre-installed Linux would most likely increase the Linux user-base.
Re:Pre-installed? o.O (Score:4, Insightful)
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But one also has to figure in the cost of supporting the transition to Linux. Software systems updated, maybe hardware swapper out, staff trained and informed at every level. I doubt its as exp
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I would be very happy to buy a complete desktop PC to Dell, HP or anyone else with whichever Linux distro they choose given that I can personalize the machine (in one or other way what you can do now) before buying it including things like webcam, scanner, printer and other devices that are
Re:Razor thin gets wider with Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait, so you're willing to pay more than $CostOfWindowsPC - $CostOfWindows? That does not appear to be the vibe on other threads here that I've read.
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From TFA:
It's not the costs of the OS that are the issue, it's the fact that Microsoft may take their ball and go home. Once that happens, you could be stuck with narrower ma
Re:Razor thin gets wider with Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, the "Windows Tax" gets offset by vendors paying the manufacturers to install all kinds of demo crap on the Windows computers they sell. Remove the Windows Tax, and you also remove the Windows Tax Credit... A PC with a free OS will prolly cost more than the one with Windows on it.
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Kind of like kickbacks. Basically, company A and B do business together. Company B wants to advertise. Company A says, "mention that your product uses our product, and do it in a specific way that we like, and, because you are advertising for us, we will help cover the cost of the advertising." For example, the "Windows-ready" and "Intel inside" campaigns are both covered under co-marketing agreements.
Co-marketing, marketing together, get it?
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anti-Spyware/Adware/Trials (Score:4, Insightful)
Problem with Linux being, the computer manufacturer doesn't get any of these kickbacks or a % of the purchase price from a trial installation... less profit, gotta charge more for the box.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, I suspect it's true that the installed software is largely advertising-supported.
If linux caught on on the desktop, though, I'd be really surprised if they didn't figure out how to do the same thing--want the default firefox bookmarks to mentio
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Yes. I'm not sure on how the situation is now, but I had heard that for a while MS was negotiating highly exclusive contracts. Basically, the PC distributor paid for a license to install Windows on EVERY machine they produce. Any machine that DIDN'T have Windows on it would be charged a fee under the theory that any PC with out an OS installed would likely get an illegal copy of Window
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With a Linux install, that's a very quick (and angry) phone call.
Yes, the assumption that "any PC" is a "windows PC" is a big problem, and at the same time, it is a bit of a red herring: the assumption has no historical basis (15 years
Re:I still don't get it (Score:5, Informative)
Baloney. Having worked with Dell systems that are up to 5 years old, I have to admit that while the parts themselves are crap, you can field strip a Dell desktop in under a minute. They are VERY modular and have only gotten better in that respect. Desktop models hardly use screws anymore, just tabs and buttons.
Taking a hard drive out of a Dell Inspiron? Two screws under the PCMCIA slot. Four screws to remove the HD from its cover guard. That's it.
Taking a hard drive out of a Sony Vaio?
If there's one thing Dell's done right, it's made cases that are stupid easy to field service. (Obviously for good reason, considering how often they need to be serviced.)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Just where you work, to keep your grabbenmittens out. Mine swings right open and the drives slide right in and out.
> I hate feeling stupid, someone please enlighten me!
Clue must come from within, grasshoppa.
Re:I still don't get it (Score:4, Funny)