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Debian Software Linux

The Debian System Explained 281

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the solid-oak-log-for-the-distro-debate-fire dept.
An anonymous reader writes "XYZComputing has a great interview with Martin F. Krafft, the author of "The Debian System". From the article: 'Despite Debian GNU/Linux's important role in today's computing environment, it is largely misunderstood and oftentimes even discounted as being an operating system which is exclusively for professionals and elite users. In this book Krafft, explains his concept of Debian, which includes not only the operating system but also its underpinnings. Debian is not only a robust and scalable Linux distribution, but it has many other features which are worth looking into, like its open development cycle and rigorous quality control.'"
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The Debian System Explained More

The Debian System Explained

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  • Debian has always been the best (Score:5, Informative)

    by XMilkProject ( 935232 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @05:50PM (#14504790) Homepage
    I'll use nothing other than Debian and Debian Based distro's. Ubuntu and Kubuntu are nice, as they are based off debian, have the massive package base available, but also are updated a bit more often.
    • The ease of using Debian based systems in terms of installing software, and easy updates might be just the thing which'll boost linux to the desktops of the majority of computer users who do not want to learn or be exposed to the intricacies of the operating system before using it.. we shall have to just wait and see..
    • I really miss swaret --search when I'm in ubuntu on my friends pc. It's a major pain having to know the exact name of a package.

    • Harsh (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dbcad7 ( 771464 )
      hmmm.. A story praising Debian, you post your agreement and praise, and you are modded troll ? Is there some bad history here or is this an attempt to stop discussion of what distro each person likes ? If it is trolling to state your Distro preference, then why post stories about a distro in the first place. sheesh

  • Hmmmm... started using Slackware around '95, went through a few kernel revisions, then put computers on the back-burner for a while to investigate post-puberty options. So how old did that make him during his long time NT testing years? How do I sign my kids up for that sort of opportunity at age 11-13? Maybe there's a reason why "Microsoft had ignored every single one of my elaborate suggestions and wishlist reports in 4.0".

    I'm sure he makes many important contributions but, wow, people tell me that I'm
    • I was born in 1979 and I became a beta-tester with 13. I don't think Microsoft actually ever cared about my age. I was contacted about beta testing because I completed all 6 MCPs required for the MCSE in a single day, or at least so the email said.

      I still have the reports I sent to them as part of the beta testing, and mind you, even now they are everything but childish. But they clearly come from someone who was used to administering nets for 50-or-so users with Netware, and Netware wasn't the direction th

  • Debian in a Nutshell... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @05:52PM (#14504803)
    ...RTFM !!

    Ah, it is still good though.
    • I realize that your post is intended to be a joke, but my first reaction upon seeing this article was something akin to, "What? 'Debian System Explained'? Doesn't Debian explain itself?"

      I have recently switched to Debian-based (Ubuntu on the desktop now, ran Sarge prior to that for several months). The system documentation is quite detailed and exhaustive. Also, it's not just for the expert user--the system is clear enough for even casual users to get a handle on quickly.

      Debian speaks for itself and i

  • All I know is... (Score:5, Informative)

    by TeachingMachines ( 519187 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @05:55PM (#14504827) Homepage Journal
    Debian 3.1 is a dream. Easy to install, no more updating (except for security updates), and rock solid as my desktop OS. FreeBSD was similarly solid, but the package management and printer control for Debian is just so darned easy. Hats off to Debian!
    • Hats off to Debian!

      Pun intended? ;)

    • Re:All I know is... (Score:3, Informative)

      by misleb ( 129952 )
      As a long time Debian user trying out FreeBSD, I must say the package management is pretty bad in FreeBSD by comparison. However, I think FreeBSD makes up for it by always having cutting edge ports available through cvsup. Sarge is great now, but in a year or two, you're going to be lamenting not having the latest packages available to you without backporting headaches or risking your solid system by mixing unstable packages with stable.

      -matthew

  • As interesting as the technology (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:01PM (#14504864)
    The organization is as interesting as the technology. Lots of people are willing to put in lots of volunteer time.

    I wonder how long it will be before the business schools start to take notice of successful open source projects and learn a bit about management.

  • Is Debian a fad? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Interesting. I went through the same linux phases...

    slackware, red hat, suse and now debian. Looked at Gentoo a bit but stuck with Debian.

    • Re:Is Debian a fad? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by MacJedi ( 173 )
      As time -> Infinity, Linux -> Debian

      (-:

    • I went through a different set of phases:

      Debian (Woody) -> SuSE -> Ubuntu -> SuSE.

      Debian Woody was NOT the right distro for somebody to start out on Linux with. I thought I had mis-installed it when all I got was a command line- I didn't know I had to startx. So I went to SuSE and ran with that for a year and a half. When my HDD crapped out, I thought I would give Ubuntu a try, and it stayed with me a couple of months. It was nice, but suspending was a ***** and OpenSuSE 10.0 finally became usable.

  • Other Distros (Score:4, Interesting)

    by IAAP ( 937607 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:03PM (#14504880)
    FTFA:Many people actively involved with Debian development are working as system administrators themselves. Thus, they know very well what their own needs are, and in case Debian doesn't meet them, they are in the position to fix that. However, ideally, one should not have to be a Debian contributor to successfully deploy Debian in production environments.

    I'm not an admin - outside of my own hacking at home. But, help me out here, is Debian more of an enterprise-admin friendly-scalable distro than, say, RedHat Enterprise?

    From what I've seen between various distros(No Debian), there's their add-ons (desktop add-ins, installation software, etc...), and then there's just Linux, XFree86, and all of the GNU software stuff. Is Debian that much better whe it comes for day to day operations?

    • Re:Other Distros (Score:3, Insightful)

      by benjamindees ( 441808 )
      is Debian more of an enterprise-admin friendly-scalable distro than, say, RedHat Enterprise?

      It depends on your definition of "enterprise". And it really depends on the admin. For your typical, point-and-click, illiterate computer monkey "enterprise" admin who only knows enough to install updates, reinstall the entire OS, and call for outside help, RedHat is perfect. In fact, it appears that this is RedHat's primary market.

      For admins who know what they're doing and can invest time in making their jobs eas
      • For me it's all about will I be able to build my tarballs without jumping through a million hoops. Other than that all distros are the same to me. Not really sure how Debian stacks up against RH enterprise in this but I know that oracle 10g won't even go on Debian so right off the bat they lose being my db server, and why not keep everything simple by using the same distro for everything I do?

        • Re:Other Distros (Score:3, Insightful)

          by buchanmilne ( 258619 )
          For me it's all about will I be able to build my tarballs

          Build tarballs?

          In an enterprise environment?

          You must be kidding.

          Red Hat has lots of tools that make deployment quick and easy, *especially* for the admins who know their stuff.

    • Re:Other Distros (Score:5, Informative)

      by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:23PM (#14504996) Homepage
      From what I've seen between various distros(No Debian), there's their add-ons (desktop add-ins, installation software, etc...), and then there's just Linux, XFree86, and all of the GNU software stuff. Is Debian that much better whe it comes for day to day operations?

      Well-tested, stable packages with no dependency issues or known security bugs and security patches, yes. Proprietary tools? No. Debian strictly follows the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which means that anything in their distro any other distro could just take. I can't really speak for everything you need in an enterprise setup but as a home server & remote X desktop it is excellent.

  • Shhhhhhhh!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:11PM (#14504922)
    Don't tell everyone how AMAZING Debian is, please! I get this strange (probably very sick) psychological aversion to seeing things I feel are part of my ingroup assets become popular. As a Debian user of 7 or 8 years I get a little nervous at this. My choice of (vastly superior) operating system is what makes me feel different. Have a little mercy on a nerds elitist insecurities please! Im the guy who always discovered underground bands years ahead of everyone else, and when they finally became mainstream I wanted to disown them. My 'discovery' felt _violated_ by the hoards of unwashed sheep jumping on the wagon. 20 years as a 'geek' and now I hear that 'geek is chic'. Time to become a merchant banker. Stop following me around you horrible unoriginal soulless people!! Find something of your own. Debian is the best kept secret in the world to me right now, don't go around telling the oiks all about it or they'll hijack it, misrepresent it, and corrupt it by dragging it down to the lowest common denomiator like everything else they touch. Next thing I know some techno wannabe will be coming up to me in the street and saying "Hey, have you heard about this really awesome new operating system called Debian Linux!" ....Smack!!

    Windows is the choice people! Windows is the best, trust me. Debian is rubbish!

    • As a Debian user of 7 or 8 years I get a little nervous at this. My choice of (vastly superior) operating system is what makes me feel different. Have a little mercy on a nerds elitist insecurities please! Im the guy who always discovered underground bands years ahead of everyone else, and when they finally became mainstream I wanted to disown them. My 'discovery' felt _violated_ by the hoards of unwashed sheep jumping on the wagon.

      well, if you think Debian is getting too mainstream, there's always the wil

    • You sound like an Ozzy fan. Lived through the 80's being reviled and disdained as a Satanist and druggie and wierdo because he listened to Black Sabbath, only to approach middle age and find out Ozzy's an MTV reality show. Teens coming up to him: "Seen the Osbornes?" "No, but I followed Ozzy back when he was with Black Sabbath." "Black who?"
    • You could always use slackware.

      or gentoo...

  • Huh? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by IamTheRealMike ( 537420 )

    Debian is not only a robust and scalable Linux distribution ...

    This sort of thing reminds me of Joel Spolski's opinion on advertising:

    The idea of advertising is to lie without getting caught. Most companies, when they run an advertising campaign, simply take the most unfortunate truth about their company, turn it upside down ("lie"), and drill that lie home [joelonsoftware.com]

    If Debian is so scalable, why does it take them so much longer than any other OS vendor to simply do a release? How comes the software even i

    • Re:Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by rca66 ( 818002 )

      If Debian is so scalable, why does it take them so much longer than any other OS vendor to simply do a release?

      "scalable" does not mean from the developer's view, but from the user's view.

      I guess many people agree with me because these days I see very few people advertising Debian as the Wonder OS that it was promoted as when I first got into Linux.

      When reading the interview, I would guess: neither would Krafft call it "Wonder OS".

      Of course, it's not exactly great PR to promote yourself as the

    • Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by no reason to be here ( 218628 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:48PM (#14505199) Homepage
      If Debian is so scalable, why does it take them so much longer than any other OS vendor to simply do a release?
      1. scalability has nothing to do with release time.
      2. the biggest OS vendors new OS longhorn is due out when, exactly? and how far past due?

      just sayin'...
      • Well, so far two people have said "scalability does not mean what you think it means". So what does it mean, in this context? Seems like it could mean many things - I interpret a scalable distro to mean a project that scales well as it grows in utility and number of people developing/using it. And Debian doesn't seem to scale - as they add more packages, it becomes harder and harder to do releases. Actually that's true of all distros but most of them have "solved" it by only making guarantees about a small
        • I interpret a scalable distro to mean a project that scales well as it grows in utility and number of people developing/using it.

          A more apt interpretation might be something like, "a distro which can be installed on everything from small embedded systems to large NUMA machines with minimal hassle" or "a distro which which can install on eleven (11) architectures using the same installer and with virtually all packages installable on each."

    • What does scalability have to do with speed of releases?
      What does robustness have to do with how many people do the security updates?
    • Instead you might want to focus on its dedication to the ideals of free software (that doesn't entice many people to install it though ...) or the fact that it runs on so many CPU architectures (hmm ... ditto).
      I like Debian because it's free as in beer. Seriously. You mention Red Hat as an alternative, but Red Hat is really oriented toward people who are willing to pay for various services associated with the OS. I'm not aware of any noncommercial Linux or BSD system that's anywhere near as solid and easy
    • Golf clap for you sir!

      That was a fine, fine troll there. You managed to *sound* knowledgeable, intelligent, and empassioned without being crude and obvious! You even worked up some righteous indignation to cover for your logical errors. You are truly a professional in your field...

      which is obviously not systems administration, development, design, or support.

      And, if that wasn't a troll... I suggest you get yourself some warm milk and a blanket, and boot back into Windows XP.

  • Debian rocks -- The book less so (Score:5, Informative)

    by peeping_Thomist ( 66678 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:19PM (#14504965)
    I've been using only Debian for about 5 years. It's the best. I totally support the community, and the philosophy behind Debian. Debian Stable is great for some purposes, and Debain unstable is great for others.

    I've been reading Martin's book (it cost me $30), and unless the second half has a lot more in it than the first half does, there's not much there that an experienced user of Debian doesn't already know. So if you're already an experienced Debian user, the news is good: you already probably understand a lot more than you think you do! If you're not already experienced with Debian, what are you waiting for?
    • I would love to hear suggestions as to what's missing. feedback at debianbook.info .
      • I haven't purchased or even bought TFB, but there are some things I wonder:

        1. Is apache 2's layout covered? I understand it, because it's intuitive to me because I've been working with huge numbers of virtual hosts for years, but many of my friends/coworkers get confused by the whole sites-enabled/sites-available thing.

        2. Is it covered that apache and apache2 can coexist and the gotchas of such a setup?

        3. Do you cover the areas where sysadmins can get bitten? For instance, if I have hundreds of gigs and mil
    • More specifically, debian stable is (really) good for servers that don't need the latest and greatest. It sucks for workstations because you'll end up being one or two major versions behind for the most crucial desktop packages, including significant feature, stability and security improvements that go into these packages.

      Debian unstable is good only for non production workstations. Specifically it doesn't have security updates; it will be in a more or less broken state most of the time (which may or may n

  • Great book, too bad about the software (Score:5, Interesting)

    by FishandChips ( 695645 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:21PM (#14504979) Journal
    Kudos to Martin Krafft for writing his book. Many dream but few ever get it together ...

    That said, I spent most of 2005 running Debian Unstable and Debian Testing on different systems and ended up finding both overrated and generally a disappointmennt. Debian was too demanding of time and needed seemingly endless fiddling around and careful management. It also took a lot of time to set up, though admittedly that is a one-off when an installation is still fresh. More important, the Debian developer community seemed shot through with an obsession with doing things the Debian way, with college-level debates (aka rows), with considerable disdain for new users and with frankly pretty obscure things of little interest to many in the everyday world. Overall, I began to wonder if some of these guys would recognize an end-user if they fell over one and my faith in the Debian way rapidly dwindled.

    None of this should detract from Krafft's achievement, though. It's a heck of a good thing to have done. I do find it a little odd that he should recommend that new users try Ubuntu rather than Debian. One is tempted to ask: what's the problem whereby they can't use Debian, then?

    For myself, I've now gone back to another distro. It's pretty nearly as capable as Debian, with the difference that its devs are technical experts who confine themselves to delivering what works. A distro that puts out for its users without striking tiresome poses or co-opting its users into politics of some kind is much the more preferable, for me at least.
    • > I do find it a little odd that he should recommend that new users try Ubuntu
      > rather than Debian. One is tempted to ask: what's the problem whereby they
      > can't use Debian, then?

      I try to answer this question in the introduction of my book, section "Target audience". You can obtain the first chapter from http://debiansystem.info/about [debiansystem.info] . Now I hope you guys aren't going to kill my server.
      • One thing I did not specify -- as I did not mention Ubuntu in the introduction:

        I recommend Ubuntu to new users of Linux because in my experience, most of them were just that: new users who wanted to read their email, author documents, and use their laptops power management at night. Sure, all of this is very possible with Debian, but IME not really for the newbie.

        Here, Ubuntu has done a good job at making Debian more accessible. That is all. And being accessible to the Linux newbie just isn't "Debian's plac

    • Re:Great book, too bad about the software (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Chalex ( 71702 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:51PM (#14505223) Homepage
      That said, I spent most of 2005 running Debian Unstable and Debian Testing on different systems and ended up finding both overrated and generally a disappointmennt. Debian was too demanding of time and needed seemingly endless fiddling around and careful management
      This is the perfect example of not understanding "The Debian System". YOU aren't supposed to use unstable. You're not even supposed to use testing. If you don't want to have to fiddle with the system, use "stable". That's what it's for. This is clearly explained in a number of places in the documentation.

      If you really want to use the latest software, why not use Ubuntu? They do all the fiddling for you.

      • This is the perfect example of not understanding "The Debian System". YOU aren't supposed to use unstable. You're not even supposed to use testing. If you don't want to have to fiddle with the system, use "stable". That's what it's for. This is clearly explained in a number of places in the documentation.

        Actually, that's the perfect example of why Debian doesn't work for everyone, for stictly my two cents. Not every user is in it to be hectored (an obsession with the Debian way, in full caps) or treated
    • Kudos to Martin Krafft for writing his book. Many dream but few ever get it together ...

      The very fact that a Debian developer has written a book on how the Debian "System" works shows, in a very clear way, that the project has terrible documentation.

      They have what amount to rough drafts. Disorganized and out of sync with the system. Nothing like the FreeBSD handbook, or the OpenBSD man pages (Linux man pages are the antithesis of Unix man pages.) In OpenBSD's case, a man page update is mandatory when the

  • Debian best (Score:2, Informative)

    by mislam ( 755292 )
    Debian 3.1 is really great. True, they have taken a long time to make this release but as I see it it is a great OS for the server. I am running it on my server and very happy with almost no fiddling I had to do with it. However, trying to run it on my workstation was a different story. Mainly because of all the wifi issues I ran into. But that is not solely debian's problem. Fedora had the same issue. So if you are looking for something rock solid for your server, go with debian. If you want something on y

  • The Community Sucks (Score:5, Interesting)

    by c_spencer100 ( 714310 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:38PM (#14505126)
    I've never had anything against Debian itself. My problem, as with a lot of other people, was always the arrogance that just seemed to ooze from the average Debian user. If you don't know what I'm refering to, then you probably relatively new to the Linux Community. It seemed for the longest that every question posted on every forum yielded the answer "get Debian". Debian's problem was NEVER being misunderstood - it was being misrepresented by the zealots that actually think their pretentous attitude represents the Debian Community as a whole.

  • Debian is for hackers; Ubuntu is for users (Score:3, Informative)

    by Russ Nelson ( 33911 ) <slashdot@russnelson.com> on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @06:50PM (#14505219) Homepage
    I've run into far too many Debian users who have contempt for anyone who knows less than them that I have to assume it's an integral part of Debian culture. I would never recommend Debian for anyone who isn't an expert. If you like Debian anyway, and want to gain the best parts of Debian, recommend that mere users use Ubuntu.
    -russ
    • I've been around the block a few times with Linux, but I am by no means an expert, and I use Debian as my primary OS at home. I think it is true not only for all Linux distro's but the Windows side too.. that you will run into "power users" who will try and demean someone with their superior knowledge when you are asking a question.

      It is my experience, that Debian is no harder to learn and use than Ubuntu. Ububtu has some polish "out of the box" that Debian doesn't, but really they are not that different.

  • There is talk right now how Firefox 1.5 isnt out on Ubuntu because Debian firefox is still at 1.0.7. And debian doesnt know when they will even get 1.5 in testing!

    So, big problem if multiple distro's are waiting on the primary distro for a package with only 2 guys maintaining it, and they have been MIA.

    • Re:Debian Based (Score:2, Informative)

      by alfino ( 173081 )
      1.5 is in unstable already, which means it'll soon trickle into testing. It also means that the next Ubuntu release in April will have it.
      • Given the issues with 1.5, I don't see why it would be in "stable" anyway. It is in unstable where it belongs until more of the issues get sorted out.

  • Modifying packages to conform to FHS = bad (Score:4, Insightful)

    by grosskur ( 706537 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @07:11PM (#14505351)
    I was a Debian user for four years; I recently switched away [dogmap.org] because I got fed up with all the downstream futzing they do to their packages. I understand Debian's need to ensure high-quality packages, but making gratutious changes to package interfaces (e.g., moving and renaming files) just to conform to a hardline FHS policy [debian.org] is extremely detrimental in the long term.

    Cross-platform compatibility is essential [cr.yp.to]. If the upstream Apache maintainers say Apache can be stopped with apachectl stop, Debian should damn well support this interface. I don't care if they provide /etc/init.d/httpd stop in addition, but they should support the standard interface. This makes life infinitely simpler for people who deal with many different systems---they don't have to keep relearning things. It also makes things simpler for people offering support to Apache users.

    The tremendous benefits of cross-platform compatibility come from a package's interface being exactly the same on every system. It is a relatively minor benefit for different packages to have similar interfaces. Breaking cross-platform compatibility, as Debian does, for the sake of cross-package similarity is a horrible idea.

    I should point out that I'm picking on Debian here because they are especially bad about this, but almost every major Linux distribution is guilty of unncessarily violating cross-platform compatibility in some way.

    • The tremendous benefits of cross-platform compatibility come from a package's interface being exactly the same on every system. It is a relatively minor benefit for different packages to have similar interfaces. Breaking cross-platform compatibility, as Debian does, for the sake of cross-package similarity is a horrible idea.
      I should point out that I'm picking on Debian here because they are especially bad about this, but almost every major Linux distribution is guilty of unncessarily violating cross-plat

    • Don't let the Debian zealots get to you as you are correct. Debian likes to do things it's own way and it makes things very hard when dealing with other distros.

      I will say though that Debian was the first distro that I ever used and I was deep into it for 2 years. It was smoking on my pentium pro at the time. =) I absolutely loved apt-get but eventually I got sick of fighting with the system.

      I'm running Gentoo now.
    • i can't believe this is being moderated as Insightful. What are you mods thinking!?

      i'm a huge fan of djb [cr.yp.to]'s work, and i use his software [cr.yp.to] (and i use Debian), but quoting his theories about cross-platform compatibility as support for your argument is pretty weak. djb's strong suit is his technical and mathematical rigor, not his infamous interpersonal skills.

      For those of us who maintain more than a handful of machines, cross-package similarity is a real and significant advantage:

      • Just installed package

      • For those of us who maintain more than a handful of machines, cross-package similarity is a real and significant advantage

        You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying Debian shouldn't add man pages, or make the documentation for package foo available under the name /usr/share/doc/foo, or generally enhance the cross-package interface of their packages. All the power to them. What I'm saying is that if, by default, openssl installs its configuration files in /usr/local/ssl, and Debian wants to put them in /

    • If the upstream Apache maintainers say Apache can be stopped with apachectl stop, Debian should damn well support this interface.

      # ps -ef | grep apa
      root 12186 1 0 19:54 pts/0 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache
      www-data 12190 12186 0 19:54 pts/0 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache
      www-data 12191 12186 0 19:54 pts/0 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache
      www-data 12192 12186 0 19:54 pts/0 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache
      www-data 12193 12186 0 19:54 pts/0 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache
      www-data 12194 12186 0 19:54 pts/0 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache

  • Agree (Score:2)

    by Britz ( 170620 )
    I completely agree with Krafft on everything he says in the interview (at least the stuff I understand). I am not a developer nor great coder. I am only a Debian user, but my first install was Slink and I have been seriously into Debian since Potato.

    Don't get me wrong, I hate Debian, but only because it is the only OS installed on my machines. I couldn't live with the rest, because they are far worse than Debian. IMHO Sarge went a little downhill, there were some rough edges during release. For example the

  • I would like to congratulate Mr. Krafft for homing in on a critical issue; that is, how to maximize and focus the efforts of people working on all of these various distributions, especially the ones that are derived from Debian, to benefit a main project. As an editor I know that 90% of the work in publishing is in achieving the last 5% of perfection. To my mind, the open source movement needs to polish one beautiful gem and give it to the world. Do that and astonishing things will happen. Take Firefox for

  • Debian Annoyances (Score:3, Informative)

    by ichin4 ( 878990 ) on Wednesday January 18, 2006 @10:38PM (#14506552)

    I've used Debian for 5+ years, not just on a desktop but also as the basis of the distributed system of a medium-sized research laboratory. I've been mostly happy, but I'm becomming restless. Yeah, apt-get is really cool, but what about...

    /etc/init.d/ scripts: Debian doesn't have a nice way to turn these scripts on and off and monitor their status via a command-line tool. Red Hat's system here was very good.

    user management: I use LDAP for user management; others use SAMBA and other stuff. But adduser isn't a shim that can interface to any of these back-end data-stores -- it can only do /etc/passwd.

    ideology: Debian's ideological bent can be a real pain for those us using the distro for its technical merits. For example, Debian pulled SSL support from all the GPL network services that link to libssl in a fit of ideology that no other distro has had.

    package management: Yeah, apt-get's dependency resolution logic is very cool. Other aspects of the system aren't so cool. Apt-get, aptitude, and other front-ends don't share the same back-end data-store, so if you mix and match these tools, you get inconsistent package data. And it's nearly impossible to force-remove a package (just delete all the damn files and forget about it!) if the associated removal script fails.

    • /etc/init.d/ scripts: Debian doesn't have a nice way to turn these scripts on and off and monitor their status via a command-line tool. Red Hat's system here was very good.

      update-rc.d ?

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