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Linux Software Technology

Linux Based CarPC 219

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-do dept.
Uber-Review writes "If you have been looking for a Linux based car PC. One man has made this a reality and documented putting together a Linux based car PC. Some of the features of this on board car PC is it can automatically sniff and record locations of wireless access points and plot them with GPS. You can watch a movie, browse the internet, get weather forecasts and stream Direct TV from your house right to your car. For an added bonus, you can remote start the car, and connect to it from inside the house and use SSH in, and transfer files without even getting off the couch."
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Linux Based CarPC More

Linux Based CarPC

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  • I can't wait (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:37PM (#13309306)
    For the first remote exploit that makes your car drive off the road.

  • No way! (Score:5, Funny)

    by pmdata ( 861264 ) * on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:37PM (#13309307)
    I love it and I'm not sure why. I can barely drive, talk on my cell and check my Blackberry email without driving into the river. Now I have to try and not surf the web? Not a good idea.

    • " I love it and I'm not sure why. I can barely drive, talk on my cell and check my Blackberry email without driving into the river. Now I have to try and not surf the web? Not a good idea."

      Hey atleast he's honest...

    • You have a point. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Stoutlimb ( 143245 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @11:14PM (#13309621)
      That was funny, but it also points out something all too true. Computers in cars are at best useless unless they provide something to help you to drive. I can see this system being good for the passenger, but what about the killer app for the DRIVER? I mean so far the best this thing can do is keep the kids in the back seat quiet, and a few other things that can often distract as much as they assist.

      I think about the only killer app in a car would be something voice activated, and provide roughly the same services as a computer abord one of those Star Trek shuttles. I mean, how hard would it be in this day and age to make something that could respond verbally to "Computer: Where is the nearest grocery store?"

      Until it gets to the point where a computer can actually help me drive effectively, I do NOT want one in my car.

      Bork!
      • Once we can integrate a PC into the whole thing with voice activation, it will be awesome- Some cars have features like instant MPG and GPS/Nav- but these are expensive options. Imagine your head unit controlling your many song music collection all while monitoring your exhaust to see how your motor is running. Add some sex somehow and it is the geeky man trifecta- Cars, Computers and women.
        Sure all these features may distract a driver, Except the remote start- My summer car and my wife's car are in the g
        • Quite a few cars( even low end dodges) are displaying MPG nowadays. It does not require GPS, just the injector size, pulse width, and speed/odometer readings. Everything is already on the car/truck.
        • >> ...My summer car and my wife's car are in the garage- so my truck sits out. Being able to start it and have it warm and have the ice defrosted when I go outside is great. ...

          There are heating systems available for this situation which don't need the motor running and waking your neighbours, polluting the air etc.

          http://www.webasto.us/am/en/am_auto_heaters.html [webasto.us]

          Not to mention that running the motor without a driver inside is against the law in many countries.
          • I have a block heater- The problem is that it doesn't help with the iced up windows.
            As far as the pollution- I start it only 10 minutes before I am ready to leave, and the neighbors aren't close enough where it is a problem. And actually, it is much better for the engine for it to be warm before I start driving, and actually better for the enviornment. A cold motor idling isn't that polluting, but driving the vehicle before it is warmed up is awful- uses a ton of gas and pours pollutants into the air.
      • I think about the only killer app in a car would be ...
        I don't know about you, but the last thing I want in my car is a killer app!!
      • Until it gets to the point where a computer can actually help me drive effectively, I do NOT want one in my car.

        Well, some car tuners are actualy using laptops to replace/complement the ECU's. They use them to manage the air/fuel mixture, ignition, timing and other settings one would like to improve to have either better mileage or performances. So I guess laptops CAN be useful and improve one's driving experience...
    • You are clearly undertasked. You could also be using that time to eat and shave. the cell phone doesn't need any hands, the blackberry shouldn't need more than one, that leaves you with two perfectly good knees for the wheel and a free hand and face.
  • Is the thing that's keeping me from putting on in my car (manual transmission)

  • Segfault... (Score:5, Funny)

    by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:41PM (#13309319)
    Sorry, officer, I ran the red-light because my CD player segfaulted at the same time I was pressing on the brakes. :P
    • EXTRA EXTRA EXTRA

      Slashdot population drops drastically after the widespread emergence of Linux based cars. The unbelievable number of fatal crashes has been attributed not to technical failure, but because the driver was too busy watching a movie, listening to music, compiling his latest modifications to the linux kernel, SSHing to a remote server, forwarding X from another remote server, FTPing to his webspace, and writing in his blog to remember that he needed to

      DRIVE!
  • This is what I want to hear, not a system built on Winows that might bluescreen going down the highway (Ford, others?). And make it useful and handy.

    Might it just be that the best system is designed by some guy in a garage? (aka Apple)

    • BMW [slashdot.org] for the most part, although others are mentioned in this particular article. Oddly enough, they have had the occasional [zdnetasia.com] problem [slashdot.org] although I think by now they've worked most of the bugs out.

    • Re:OK, this might work (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MustardMan ( 52102 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:55PM (#13309378)
      Yeah because I really want a wifi enabled computer able to start my car... because we all know wifi is SO secure. And we all know SSH is IMPOSSIBLE to penetrate, right?

      I'm sorry, but I don't want to have to worry if my car has the latest patches.
      • And we all know SSH is IMPOSSIBLE to penetrate, right?

        kinda like the drivers side window?

      • I wouldn't really worry about that , It's far quicker to break into it and hot-wire the machine.
      • Yeah because I really want a wifi enabled computer able to start my car... because we all know wifi is SO secure. And we all know SSH is IMPOSSIBLE to penetrate, right?

        If you live in a place that has cold winters, you probally do. Gotta be more secure than those wireless remote systems so common on Montana and the Dakodas. While there is the likelyhood that some jackass could break your security and start your car, they still have to worry about that pesky issue involving the steering lock.

        The key switch
        • Not to speak of the fact if they really really really wanted your car... and I mean really... they could just use a tow truck.

          Funny story about that. There was a guy who I used to work with had a Ford Sierra Cosworth, which he had spent an insane amount of money on taking it far beyond the normal Cossie spec. To secure it, he had various locks and pins, and electronic goodies, and then two bloody massive steel rings cast into his concrete driveway which he chained the front and rear subframes to with the

        • Yeah, but everything you're talking about is someone stealing the car. What about the smartass kid who lives next door and doesn't want to get caught spraypainting bridges, so he gets his antisocial kicks other ways, like screwing with my car? When there's basically no chance of getting caught, no way to prove he did it, what's gonna stop the computer savvy dick down the street from screwing with the car from the comfort of his parents' basement for his own amusement?
          • Yeah, but everything you're talking about is someone stealing the car. What about the smartass kid who lives next door and doesn't want to get caught spraypainting bridges, so he gets his antisocial kicks other ways, like screwing with my car? When there's basically no chance of getting caught, no way to prove he did it, what's gonna stop the computer savvy dick down the street from screwing with the car from the comfort of his parents' basement for his own amusement?

            That is a valid point... which is a good
            • I think the main difference between a remote controlled start switch and wifi is the fact that most kids with a computer already have the equipment neccesary to screw with the wifi. You'd either have to go buy, or build, a specialized device to mess with a normal remote start. To mess with wifi, all you need to do is start googling.

              I agree that all the precautions you mentioned are good steps, but unless music is ALL I'm using the carputer for, I'd rather use something other than linux.
      • Especially when your current security measures [theinquirer.net] are so sound.
      • SSH with RSA auth and no passwords *is* pretty damned near impossible to penetrate.
    • http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php? f =71 [mp3car.com]
      - Help for Mac based car computers. The biggest reason that not many people use Macs in their carputers is because there are no decent frontends for MacOS. No one has made one with all the features everyone wants. Check out the forum though, someone just offered a cash proze for the first person to do it... maybe someone reading this post might be interested ;-)
      • I'm a little confused about "no decent frontends for Mac OS". What's wrong with Aqua? I assume you meant "Mac OS X" rather than "Mac OS".

        And how difficult could it possibly be to mount a Mac Mini in your car?
        • Mac Mini in the car? It's been done. [tunertricks.com]

          • Thanks for that link. I especially like the Griffin PowerMate in the brake handle well.

            Now to see what my wife thinks when I start cutting up her Jetta...
            • And of course, the only thing that could make that install better is if Uwe Ross would just get over his aversion to Macs and port VAG-COM [ross-tech.com] to Mac OS X so I could have on-board diagnostic software...I suppose I'll have to hack in a PC as well with a KVM to switch between them.
        • I assume you meant "Mac OS X"

          Yes, my bad; a typo.

          What's wrong with Aqua?

          Aqua (if this [wikipedia.org] is what you mean) isn't the kind of frontend you'd want to use in a carPC setup. I refer you to this [mp3car.com] thread to learn what is wanted.

          And how difficult could it possibly be to mount a Mac Mini in your car?

          Not [mp3car.com] difficult [mp3car.com] at all.
          • Ah, I see...you meant a simplified interface. I guess I'm really thinking more about having access to a computer while I'm in the car--not having a computer to control my car's systems.
  • What's the pricing for that Verizon cell intarweb thing?
    • Did you see all the open wireless APs plotted on Google Maps? He could just use them instead of paying Verizon. Free Internet!
    • Its about $80 a month for unlimited access. For that speed, its worth it if you use it at home too.

      That wasn't too hard, I wonder what those other guys issues are. In fact I bet a lot of people looked it up just because of your question, I didn't even know.
      • Thanks, I checked the site to see if it was available in my area.. Of course not, don't be silly. Why should a place 41 miles from Albany in a place that New Yorkers love to spend their vacation time in have cell service?

        My town is an equal distance between Springfield, MA and Albany, NY, also an equal distance between Boston and NYC. And we have NOTHING here. The joys of living in the Berkshires.

  • Divided Attention (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tiberius_Fel ( 770739 ) <`ten.nrobereripme' `ta' `lef'> on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:50PM (#13309357)
    Whatever happened to focusing on the road when driving? I would be curious to know what statistics are like for collisions in vehicles with lots of advanced toys. If you're playing with the GPS / WiFi sniffer / $random_electronic_car_toy your attention is off the road, which is dangerous...

    It seems we're putting more and more neat features and displays into the vehicles, but how carefully are we considering how it affects the behaviour of the drivers?

    • Re:Divided Attention (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ErikZ ( 55491 )
      Seriously, you need to focus?

      I lean back and let my awareness spread out. My eyes actually *unfocus* and I take in the general shapes and movements of everything around me.

      I focus on things that I need to focus on. But the rest of the time is like being in a daydream.
    • The article mentions the possibility of watching movies on the road. If that weren't bad enough, scientists have now proved the age-old truth that watching pr0n makes you blind [newscientist.com], at least momentarily.

  • Love the idea but... (Score:4, Informative)

    by jhfry ( 829244 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:51PM (#13309364)
    I have planned to build one of these for a long time, but everytime I start to price components I realize it's not worth the money and time it would take me.

    What I really want is a video server for DVD movies for the kid's tv in the back seat. I mean the tv/vcr combo thats there now is great... until the tape ends and needs rewinding. Not to mention that VHS tapes are so bulky that we only keep 5 or so in there.

    Give me a video server that fits into the opening in my minivan and I'll be as happy as a fly on s#!t on the next road trip!

  • No Carputer (tm) is complete without this.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Goyuix ( 698012 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:51PM (#13309366) Homepage
    Mp3car MTSVO-SC Fully motorized VGA Touch Screen
    http://www.mp3car.com/store/product_info.php?cPath =25&products_id=120 [mp3car.com]

    (not affiliated in anyway)

  • Cool but (Score:5, Funny)

    by $0.02 ( 618911 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:55PM (#13309376)
    Does it run on Diesel?

  • Scary. (Score:3, Funny)

    by BitwizeGHC ( 145393 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @09:55PM (#13309377) Homepage
    I worry enough about people using replay attacks by recording the signal from my remote-unlock keychain; the last thing I need is a car that can be started remotely via ssh.q
    • I worry enough about people using replay attacks by recording the signal from my remote-unlock keychain

      Hmm, I read that the keychain door openers uses a technique similar to the "password calculators", in which case a replay wouldn't get you anywhere?

    • Re:Scary. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kd5ujz ( 640580 ) <william@@@ram-gear...com> on Saturday August 13, 2005 @01:39AM (#13310078)
      its pretty easy to hack together a car/garage door lock key fob "cracker". Just find one of the many user setable devices. If it is set with dipswitches, you can use a 4040 binary ripple counter (all of the ones I have are 12bit), and use a 555 as your clock/pulse for the ripple counter. Tie the outputs to the dipswith outputs, and let it run through the codes automaticly. Might take awhile, older ones were 8 bit, but some new ones are getting up there. If you need more than 12 bits, tie two together for 24 bit.

  • Been doing this myself. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by shotgunefx ( 239460 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @10:03PM (#13309401) Journal
    I've been working on this for a couple months now. Though I used a laptop mounted in a docking station bolted to the top of the trunk using a VCR bracket.

    Outside of the lilliput 8" touchscreen, most of it has been pretty cheap. The laptop was a Dell CPTv I had. Slow but fast enough. I got a docking station,dvd, dc adapter and some more memory for around $150.

    I use a lilliput 8" touchscreen molded into the double din radio slot. Dumped my head unit totally. Put a small Sirius Skymate radio and embedded it into the dash. The Starmate goes to the laptop which goes to the amp.

    I found some Hitachi Endurastar automotive 2.5 HDD s on ebay for about $60 shipped a piece. Good deal. A little slow but I got them working at zero degrees.

    For input eventually I'll finish my indash keyboard, (A hacked up Traveler PS3100), but now I'm using a Dreamgear mini usb keyboard made for the PS2. I hacked off the cord and replaced it with a retractable usb cord.

    Mostly everything has been pretty easy as far as setting things up, but bluetooth connectivity with a sprint phone has been problematic. As this is my first linux install on the laptop, (and more multimedia than I've set up in the past), I was suprised how easy it's been going.

  • This is dangerous, stupid, and illegal (in CA) (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In California, it's illegal to have any kind of video display visible to the driver except for navigation.

    Hang up, log off, and fucking DRIVE!

  • just something about it... (Score:3, Funny)

    by v1 ( 525388 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @10:17PM (#13309442) Homepage Journal

    SSH'ing to your car... there's just something about it that makes me want to try it...

    "Man, my car crashed." "What'd you do?" "I rebooted it of course."

  • Real-Time Navigation with Google Earth (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kai.chan ( 795863 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @10:18PM (#13309449)
    Instead of plotting Access Points, getting a GPS Receiver that feeds GPS location into Google Earth to make a real-time navigation system would be quite beneficial to the user. With streaming high-res maps and Google Earth's built-in route directions, I'm sure that a navigation system like this would be a good market. Especially if Google decides to release a Linux version of Google Earth to lower the cost of production of a non-Windows-based navigation system.
  • Wouldn't it have been easier to just pop a Mac Mini under the seat? Seems like a no-brainer to me...you could even run Linux on it, if that's what you really want. I can envision one mounted on a little shock-mount kind of thing.

    Or, if you really want to go crazy, an HP nr3610 rugged notebook PC, or something like it. That'll only set you back 4 big ones, right? But at least using it in a car won't kill the warranty!

  • graeat hardware crappy interface (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @10:27PM (#13309472) Homepage
    Ive been watching this stuff for over 4 years now and everyone can install the hardware nice but their interface sucks eggs. the closest thing I have seen is the 1/2 finished pycar project. a CAR Pc needs a real easy to use and simplified user interface to make it easy and SAFE to use on the road. most of the functions need to be able to run in the background while you do other things and someone needs to get off their arse and make a REAL vector based mapping/ navigation system. Linux has some psudeo gps moving map displays but absolutely NO navigation apps. (sorry but unless it gives me turn by turn showing the road route like the $49.00 windows delorme apps or the super old AutoPC car stereo from 1998 then its not navigation.

    honestly installing the hardware and fabricating the faceplates in the car is the easy part. getting a bunch of people together to make a useable and safe UI for a car system is not.

    dashwerks dashpc is close (although still 1/2 way as the interface is really klunky and not safe to operate at 80mph in 4 lanes of bumper to bumper traffic.... my pioneer double din navigation/dvd/cd/mp3 player is...

    • Honestly, I think 90% of the interface should be voice. It should be both voice recognition and voice synthesis. I suppose I can see the point of having a monitor, if used rarely. But I honestly don't see myself watching DVDs in a car PC.

      But it's a really cool project, something I've thought would be cool before. As for navigation, honestly, a close substitute would be just to scrape the directions off of MapQuest or some other website and have the software dictate the directions to you on the road.
      • bingo. the pioneer navigation and the really old autopc are both limited vocabulary voice control with some buton control. and work great except for 2 situations.

        1- you are cranking the stereo
        2- all windows are down and you are doing 70mph

        my pioneer will play DVD's but it really is a useless function. it is illegal in all states for a DVD or TV to be playing within view of the driver, granted most people do not care about the law espically traffic safety laws but it's still illegal and the unit I have dis

  • DON'T CLICK THE LINK (Score:5, Funny)

    by meeotch ( 524339 ) on Friday August 12, 2005 @10:48PM (#13309531) Homepage
    If his server crashes, he could be killed!
  • Procrastinators everywhere rejoice! Now you can compile your homework on the way to school.

  • What I would like to see (Score:3, Funny)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdougNO@SPAMgeekazon.com> on Friday August 12, 2005 @11:59PM (#13309786) Homepage
    you can remote start the car, and connect to it from inside the house

    Now that my car has turned 21, I want the ability to send it to the store to get beer.

  • Nice (Score:5, Interesting)

    by interstellar_donkey ( 200782 ) <pathighgate&hotmail,com> on Saturday August 13, 2005 @12:05AM (#13309805) Homepage Journal
    I have something similier in my car; an older 600mhz dell laptop connected to a power inverter in the seat and a Garmin handheld GPS. I have an 802.11b Orinoco card with a 5dbi mag-mount antenna connected to a pigtail to the card, and another 803.11b/g card with internal antenna. This setup can do just about everything the setup in the article has, with the exception of the live TV (though I can stream mpg video over the wireless lan), the cell phone interface (I have Sprint... ugh), and my system is not connected to my car stereo (though, in a pinch, I can burn a CD-R with MP3s and throw it in the car player).

    The main difference though, between his setup and mine is, mine looks like garbage. When it's setup the passenger seat has the laptop (making it unusable) and there are wires running everywhere. To me, that's what makes this guys setup so friggin' cool. When this guy goes out on a date, he doesn't have to spend 20 minutes packing everything up and storing it in the trunk (because, believe it or not, most girls are not impressed by a car full of lose computer equipment and wires running everywhere).

    I think when someone gets around to making custom kits for various vehicles for mobile computer installation--that blend in with the interior of the car like this guy's setup does--they'll do pretty well. While I wouldn't really care for streaming video (how am I supposed to watch TV while I'm driving?), I would like to see systems that made it easy for the car computer to connect to your wireless network, and from your desktop computer copy whichever mp3s (or OGG or whatever) you felt like having in your car's library.

    I could imagine going over to a friends house, and him asking me "Have you heard XYZ's new album?" "No.. any good?" "It's great. Here, I'll burn you a copy" "Don't bother. I noticed you don't have WEP running on your wireless, so my car has probably already negotiated a connection and is on your LAN." (clicks on 'my network', and my shared folder configured through samba shows up) "There it is. Just drag and drop the music files into there".

    Again, this all could be done using existing technology. The only hurdles are getting the dang thing configured for what you want it to do, and getting it installed into your car so it looks nice.
  • car with a built in PC that it's first going to get hacked to run Linux with a really ugly GUI and then someone is going to port NetBSD to it but installing NetBSD won't always work and you'll have to do lots of patching to get the system running (don't even think about making it stable). Then of course when you want to download software updates you'll have to run Ford Genuine Advantage to make sure that you didn't just pirate a copy of FordPC and install it on a cheap Korean import.

  • I just wanted to give this guy kudos for this project in case he browses around here. I know that here he'll probably get the standard slashdot asshole treatment, but honestly, most of us are salvating at your in car 3D Matrix screensaver :)

    See, once we get lots of people with in car computers then we can transmit our road-rage frustrations wirelessly. But seriously, I wonder if he has it attached to his gas gauge and speedometer so he can keep track of mileage, something I'm too lazy to do. Of course, w
  • With all those computing features just rolling down the road, that's a PC car. A car PC helps you drive better, not compute while driving. Like GPS navigation, VoIP, audio from a server that gets 3G Internet radio or your own streams from your home server. Google maps with "you are here" and local search. Finding the nearest biodiesel dump (fast food dumpster). Letting the passenger drive by joystick from any seat while your take a nap. Upgrading your fuel injection. Maybe backseat games against other cars
  • I must say that I got a good feeling seeing an install on slashdot that my own install [mp3car.com] helped in part to inspire; although I did pretty much give up on Linux on the EPIA board for my install despite getting everything set up and configured correctly (Including LinuxBIOS, mind you, which was no easy chore) Good job on the install and good job sticking through on the software side!
  • I seem to recall it may be illegal in the UK to leave an unattended car with the engine running. Also, many insurance companies will void the insurance during such periods...

    "Motorists are being warned by British Insurance Brokers' Association (BIBA) and insurance companies that they will not be covered if they leave their car unattended with keys in the ignition and engine running..."

    I wonder what would happen when you also explain that the keys weren't actually in the vehicle and were not needed to st
    • "...users of remote engine starting systems in the UK may encounter problems with the police, as it is illegal to leave a vehicle unattended whilst the engine is running, and they do not meet insurance criteria in the UK, Belgium, Holland, Germany or France." [Security by Design newsletter]
  • Everytime I had ideas to build a car PC (always lacked the funding) I always wanted to not just play movies, mp3s, wardrive, checkweather, browse the web, etc.; I also wanted to know what was going on with my car. Driving a 1993 DSM this is a fairly easy task since the car already outputs data from the computer in standard RS-232 format and at least a couple [sourceforge.net] of dataloggers [sourceforge.net] is readily available from sourceforge for DSMs. I would think this would be even easier to do for any car manufactured after 1995 (or wa
  • Would be the ability to have the car know when it is parked in my garage, and connnect up to my home wireless network. Then it would refesh and/or update media files and playlists.

    I currently do this manually wih my iPod, i.e., dock it and synchronize it. Why can't the blasted thing understand my wireless network and just synch up whenever it is in the garage at night.

  • I'm interested in how you map wireless access points with the GPS

    How does this all work? You need to triagulate the position of the AP somehow, (by just driving around?) is there a package that does this? How does it do this magic?
  • The Empeg URL [empeg.com] is still up, but the company's long gone (wonder where Hugo went).

    Empeg did just that: build a formal DIN sized Linux system that had as main aim playing MP3s. The platform was basically overengineered (well done ;-) so it should have had plenty spare capacity to add features or, alternatively, maybe time for a hardware upgrade to bring it out again. It worked, and I was personally quite sad to see it go.

    If anything, THAT's the kind of stuff I'd like to see in kit form ;-).
  • C'mon people, give me a GPS (or tie it to the car's mileage for bigger points) enabled computer with two buttons. One that says "business" one that says "personal". That way I don't have keep a logbook for the freaking IRS.

    I don't give a flying fark about DVD, random WiFi hotspots, or weather forecasts (if you can't see the weather when you're in the car, you're blind, and you probably can hear it.)

    I just want a car computer that allows my car usage to be simpler.
  • is there a way to may Linux work with a touch screen monitor? I'm not so sure I want to do everything with a keyboard.

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