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Microsoft Software Linux

"Get the Facts" Campaign Working 499

brontus3927 writes "According to a Reseller Advocate Magazine write-up, Microsoft seems to be winning its war against Linux. Info-Tech Research Group recently ran a survey that is now being used on Microsoft's Get The Facts campaign. In it were some surprising results. 'After polling 1,400 IT managers and CIOs in SMB corporations, his group found that 48% were not interested in Linux, 15% were not sure about Linux, and only 10% plan to evaluate Linux." Despite this, two-thirds of all webservers run Linux. The disparity in these numbers comes from the fact that most smaller companies' websites are hosted by service providers running Linux servers even if the company itself isn't."
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"Get the Facts" Campaign Working

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  • No discrepency (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:48AM (#12598776)
    A lot of Apache webserver installations are used by hobbyists, not companies. You can't say the same for IIS.
    • Apache != Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:07AM (#12598866)
      Those Apache servers are not all Linux. A lot of Apache servers are BSD or other *IX systems. A few are even Windows boxes. There's probably a MachTen box or two in the mix.

      I think Linux is the cat's pajamas, the bee's knees; it does not need to steal credit from BSD and other projects in order to deserve praise.
    • Re:No discrepency (Score:2, Insightful)

      by diablobsb ( 444773 )
      Yes you can...
      Most of the people I know that are Hobbyists don't run a dedicated webserver... They run their site from their own machine, which for other reasons (games/office/etc) also runs on windows...

      besides... many hobbists don't even know you can install apache on windows...
    • Re:No discrepency (Score:5, Insightful)

      by toddbu ( 748790 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:31AM (#12599031)
      I don't necessarily agree with this statement, but let's say that I do. The assumption here is that CIOs actually control technology in their companies. While they make day-to-day strategic decisions, they really don't have much control over the long-term direction that their company's technology takes. This is driven primarily by end users and the technologists who serve them. Hogwash you say? Well how about a little history lesson.

      Back when I was a youngster, IBM held dominance in the marketplace. Every CIO (they didn't call themselves that back then) that had a data center ran IBM. They seemed unbeatable. But then the PC came along and beat the pants off the old mainframe systems. This happened because users were demanding more capability than your average mainframe could deliver. It wasn't a matter of computing capacity, but rather the MIS department's ability to deliver applications in a timely manner. I worked on a project where we dumped a $50,000 app that we had written with a much more capable system on a PC built on Excel. Our customer (in this case another group in our organization) was very happy and we saved ourselves a lot of cash in the process. This new way of thinking wasn't driven by the CIO, but rather by the technologists who knew how to put this stuff together. It was collaborative and creative.

      Fast forward to today. Corporations don't really drive the marketplace. Sure they have influence, but to think that by taking care of a very limited group of CIOs that somehow you're going to dominate the marketplace is a ridiculous idea. There are literally millions of small businesses that drive the economy and they don't consult their CIO when making a buying decision. They'll usually talk to another small business owner or their geeky nephew or some other "lowly" technologist. The CIO is nowhere to be seen.

      Personally I don't know why Microsoft or any other company chases after large corporations like they do, other than that they're a large corporation themselves and know how to service that marketplace. Sure Microsoft has made billions on this market, but the question is whether or not it's sustainable. Once things become commodities (as software is fast becoming), large customers become very price conscious and beat you up for the last $. So unless they're a prestige account or you get some economy of scale, they're pretty much useless from a profit perspective. You're much better off servicing small to medium sized customers who either don't have the leverage or aren't as price sensitive.

      If I'm looking to the real future of computing, I'd rather know what a bunch of geeks in high school think about technology than some random group of CIOs. They'll have the greatest degree of influence over it in the long haul.

      • Re:No discrepency (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I don't know why Microsoft or any other company chases after large corporations like they do, other than that they're a large corporation themselves and know how to service that marketplace.

        Like any other company selling a product, Microsoft pursues large firms because, for each dollar spent on marketing and sales, they get the greatest return (marginal return). The effort to sell to a medium-sized firm is nearly the same as for a large firm, but the payoff from the large firm is much bigger.

        Secon

      • I don't agree... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by rmdyer ( 267137 )
        If I'm looking to the real future of computing, I'd rather know what a bunch of geeks in high school think about technology than some random group of CIOs. They'll have the greatest degree of influence over it in the long haul.

        Adolecents are very bad at determining anything that is going to last a long time. There's a lot of quick, off the cuff, rebel without a cause, I just want to be different attitude. High schoolers may determine fads, but not long term statistics. As for the other group, the over
      • Re:No discrepency (Score:3, Insightful)

        by BigLinuxGuy ( 241110 )
        Some observations:
        1. High school kids are not great strategic (or tactical) decision makers. I'd hate to bet my company's future enterprise infrastructure on what they think is "c00l".
        2. CIOs have a lifespan of typically 3-5 years and they make all of their plans around that lifecycle. Ergo sum, I'm not confident in their ability to really do "strategic" planning for a company because they're focused on how to get their bonuses and golden parachute.
        3. Generally, innovation comes from below as a grassroots movem
  • Slowing adoption (Score:5, Interesting)

    by panxerox ( 575545 ) * on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:48AM (#12598777)
    Its not like MS can win a fud war against a free / quality product, this they showed Netscape. MS can slow Linux adoption but this by itself wont stop it, but if they combine a campain to slow linux combined with patent blanketing and file format lockin they may be able to marginalize linux.
    • by bigman2003 ( 671309 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:03AM (#12598848) Homepage
      I don't think the article is surprising news at all...

      At my job we are NOT considering Linux, and probably will not anytime in the foreseeable future.

      We have 10+ years of infrastructure built on Windows. We have over a dozen servers all running Windows, talking to each other, running programs built for them.

      We have 10+ years of expertise (well, 4 people with at least 6 year each)

      Switching now would be insane.

      It's not a choice of which one is 'better' (for one of any number of reasons) but which one works best for us.
      • by zulux ( 112259 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:36AM (#12599059) Homepage Journal
        At my job we are NOT considering Linux, and probably will not anytime in the foreseeable future.

        It starts out small. You say to yourself - Why are we paying Microsoft $5000 just to serve files for 20 people? You dink around with a Linux/*BSD box and manage to barely get Samba working. It takes you a day, but after that it works! A year later, you notice that you haven't had to reboot it or 'fix' it, or virus scan it, service pack it, change the CAL licenceing .... or anything.....

        It starts out small.

        But it is infectious.... after all it's 'viral' according to Balmer ;)

        • Pro-Choice (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Foofoobar ( 318279 )
          This is exactly the point. People don't see that they have choices but if they see that they have a choice in one area of technology, they begin to check to see if their are other choices that they can make as well.

          Microsoft's big plus is in making consumers think that there are no choices. It is scared of people getting the chance to make a choice and even more scared of consumers making an INFORMED choice.

          Just because you use Windows and have always used Windows does not mean that is the best choice for
        • "Why are we paying Microsoft $5000 just to serve files for 20 people?"

          I don't know, because Windows Server 2003, standard edition, with 10 CALs, is around $500.

          "A year later, you notice that you haven't had to reboot it or 'fix' it, or virus scan it, service pack it"

          Bullshit. Patching is a necessary part of any OS. Hell, there have been major holes in SSH, the kernel, Apache, and Samba in the last year. Windows is not unique in this regard.

          We run Windows because it integrates well with our systems. IIS
      • by khasim ( 1285 ) <brandioch.conner@gmail.com> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:37AM (#12599066)
        From TFA:

        48% are not interested in Linux.
        52% are somewhat interested in Linux.

        15% are not sure about Linux.

        Which leaves 37% who have deployed Linux or are testing Linux for deployment.

        The company I work for sounds similar to your's. We have LOTS of server apps that will only run on Windows. Except we have more servers.
        Switching now would be insane.
        Possibly. But "now" isn't "tomorrow".

        The key issue is whether you're talking about an EXISTING installation or a NEW installation.

        Because you have an existing installation, your company has already spent the money to evaluate and deploy that system.

        But, at some time in the future, there will be an upgrade. And you will have to spend more money on your system.

        There are 3 items to consider when evaluating a system.

        #1. Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) - how much does it cost to run this system day after day.

        #2. Return on Investment (ROI) - How much revenue with this system allow us to generate?

        #3. Migration cost - How much will it cost to deploy this system.

        Now, even though Linux may have a far lower TCO and a far higher ROI, the migration cost can be too high to make a business case for it.

        But when it is time to pay for the next upgrade, the migration costs need to be compared. So if it would cost $1 million to migrate today, but it would take the company 10 years to make that money back, no one would migrate.

        But then you have to pay $500,000 for the next upgrade. Suddenly, the Linux system doesn't look so bad. Particularly if you're looking at ANOTHER upgrade within the next 5 years.

        So you (being the pro-active guy you are) get in touch with the people working on the Linux systems. You have the time and they have the incentive. Can they cut the migration costs to $250,000 within the next 5 years (estimated time to your next upgrade)?

        After all, it's just 0's and 1's.

        If they can do that, then the next upgrade will cost MORE than the migration.

        It's called a "migration plan". Only idiots or people with an agenda try to migrate ALL of their systems at once.

        Start by learning Linux and seeing where it can be deployed, reasonably, in your existing network. We're running it for DNS/DHCP/backup/webpages/etc. I also have it protecting an old GroupWise system. I'm also trying to establish OpenLDAP as our standard directory service.

        The longer you wait to start, the more proprietary infra-structure you'll have to migrate.

        Your IT department needs a plan. Otherwise, you'll be driven by the vendors. And the vendors are only interested in getting more of your money into their pockets.

        And "staying with Microsoft" is not a plan.
        • And "staying with Microsoft" is not a plan.

          I may have agree with your post, but it seemed to rely in great measure on the last sentence (which I just quoted above). And that sentence is not accurate, because staying with a solution is a plan.

          Now, try to think freely, without cognitive dissonance: if Windows and other MS products do the job for a certain company, why would not "staying with Microsoft" be a plan? Really?
          • Now, try to think freely, without cognitive dissonance: if Windows and other MS products do the job for a certain company, why would not "staying with Microsoft" be a plan? Really?

            Quite simply, it doesn't fit the the slashbots' ideals that everyone and his dog should be using some sort of open source solution even if said solution is the wrong one to use.

      • Re:Slowing adoption (Score:4, Interesting)

        by FuzzyBad-Mofo ( 184327 ) * <fuzzybad@gmaCURIEil.com minus physicist> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:49AM (#12599135)

        Wow, your comments sounds just like my old company. They refused to look at modern technology because they had 200 (combined) years of experience with obsolete server software. They're bankrupt now..

      • We have over a dozen servers all running Windows... We have 10+ years of expertise (well, 4 people with at least 6 year each)

        It takes 4 people to run 12+ servers (each probably dedicated to a single task, as usually recommended for Windows)? Glad it's your company's money, not mine. I guess it helps the unemployment picture though.

        • Re:Slowing adoption (Score:5, Informative)

          by bigman2003 ( 671309 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @12:42PM (#12599432) Homepage
          Well 'running servers' doesn't just mean that we make sure the fans are spinning, and the little green lights stay on.

          I spend 90% of my time programming...and about 10% maintaining the 4 servers that I use. That includes keeping users FTP accounts up to date.

          We have thousands of users, and one of the people maintains the filesharing/e-mail servers, while supporting those users in using them.

          We sell products, and use a webserver/database server/firewall for that system. Maintaining the servers is a small part- keeping the site with shopping cart running/secure/up-to-date is more important.

          Actually for only 4 people, we get a ton of work done- and our administrative overhead is very low. That's why we wouldn't be switching anytime soon- I would have to re-write a lot of what I've done. We would have to switch tons of user accounts, get a new e-mail system, etc. etc. We do real stuff...not just some stupid administrative tasks that could be automated...those are the people who will soon see the unemployment line.

      • Re:Slowing adoption (Score:5, Interesting)

        by NtroP ( 649992 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @12:11PM (#12599256)

        It's not a choice of which one is 'better' (for one of any number of reasons) but which one works best for us.

        My parents had 2 windows PC's. They were constantly infected with viruses, pop-ups and other problems that caused my father, in particular, a lot of data loss. Every couple of months they'd take it in to the local repair shop. There, they would either re-install the OS (blowing away any data my dad forgot to back up) or occasionally sell my dad an "upgraded component" like more RAM, faster CPU, etc. "to help with the speed problems".

        For years I tried to get my parents to buy a Mac. 90% of what they do is platform agnostic and they aren't gamers. For years my dad kept saying, "yeah, macs might be pretty good - I've heard good things about them, but this works better for me". WTF? How is it working better for you, dad? What you mean is that you are familiar with it. You fear change. The thought of a little pain for a world of gain frightens you, and besides, you have all this money and time invested in your current equipment. Which, by the way, you've paid for 10 times over in repair/upgrade fees, lost productivity, and heartache.

        Two years ago I bit the bullet and paid for a G4 iBook out of my own pocket. I configured everything for what I knew they would need including VPC for the one PC-only, gotta-have app my dad uses. I gave it to them to as a gift, spent a few hours with them walking them through the differences to make sure they could do some basic troubleshooting, etc. and sent them on their way. About 6 months later I got a call from my dad saying he was having problems. I thought "crap! this wasn't supposed to happen". It turned out that his virtual PC image had gotten infected with malware (I told him not to surf from within VPC!) and it was "having the same problems his other computers were".

        Phew! Fortunately, I had made a backup image of his VPC drive and had configured all his PC apps to use shared space (on the mac volume for saving data). I old him to drag the bad image to the trash, go to the "backups" folder and Option-drag the Windows2K file back into the VPC Folder. He was impressed. Now he does all his "critical windows stuff" on his mac. I've almost even got him convinced to install Linux (either Xandros or Kubuntu) on his PC's.

        How does this relate to the Parent Poster? All my dad knew, all he'd invested in financially, time-wise, pain-wise, was Windows. And he said "It works better for me". What is that supposed to mean? Better than what? Does my daughter's Daewoo Nubira work better than my Mercedes? Just how would you have to define "better" to make it fit. She's never even driven my Mercedes. Does her car work for her? Yes. Does that mean that, if I were to give her my car, and let her get a chance to get used to it that it wouldn't in the long term work better for her? What are the chances that 10 years down the road she'd be still driving the Nubira? How about the Mercedes (well, assuming I gave it to her :-)?

        At work we still have several servers running RH 6.2 on old, but high-quality hardware. I keep them patched, almost never have to re-boot them (except for the occasional kernel patch), keep the firewalls tuned, and forget them. BTW, they were my first Linux boxes, coming from an all-Windows background. It was a steep learning curve (especially back then, before the simple, graphical installation we have now. But I made the choice to take the risk and it has paid off in spades. 75% of our critical infrastructure has been migrated away from windows. We still use windows where it makes sense. We still have an Active Directory Domain which we will be upgrading to Win2K3 this summer. But, we are beginning to implement OpenLDAP and plan on letting that slowly take over the AD duties wherever we can. We are rolling out OpenOffice/NeoOffice and FireFox on all new computers by default.

        I can say which OS's in which

      • Re:Slowing adoption (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Daimaou ( 97573 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @05:36PM (#12601013)
        I wouldn't be so sure. The last two places I worked were both Microsoft shops. One had an MSDN subscription for every developer and programmed exclusively in Microsoft technologies.

        Then I get hired at the first company and I write an application, using Linux and other open source technologies, that saves them about half a million dollars in the first year. Guess what, that company is now using Linux and has hired a small team of Linux developers.

        The second company is now using Linux on many of its desktops for the same reason.

        The funny thing is that the CIO/CTO of both companies had nothing to do with the decision. It was driven by an engineer who knew what he was doing (in this case me) and an application or service that the company came to rely upon.

        If your company hired someone like me, you would be running Linux within six months without so much as a meeting to discuss the matter.
    • by NutscrapeSucks ( 446616 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:14AM (#12598908)
      Microsoft isn't really fighting war with a free product here, they are fighting a war against expensive IBM and Oracle products that are based on a free product. If you actually "Got the Facts" (read the reports), you'd see this.

      I don't totally agree with the conclusions, but there's nothing really wrong with pointing out the price tag of WebSphere and Oracle.

      There's a certain amount of FUD here on slashdot where MS is the expensive vendor and Linux users all run Debian & Postgres for free. The reality is that Linux is being positioned as a high-end Enterprise product and is priced accordingly. I don't see any movement from RedHat and Novell to sell Linux to Small/Medium Businesses.
      • Re:Slowing adoption (Score:5, Informative)

        by rsax ( 603351 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:43AM (#12599103)
        I don't see any movement from RedHat and Novell to sell Linux to Small/Medium Businesses.

        Some movement right here [novell.com].

        • Three SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 licenses
        • Five Novell GroupWise 6.5 licenses
        • Novell Linux Desktop 9
        • Novell eDirectory 8.7.3
        • Novell ZENworks Linux Management Client
        • Support for up to 100 users and 3 servers
        • Five free support incidents

        All that for under $500.

  • by jlebrech ( 810586 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:51AM (#12598785) Homepage
    GNU/linux that is thanks you very much.
  • Err... (Score:5, Informative)

    by cperciva ( 102828 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:52AM (#12598793) Homepage
    Despite this, two-thirds [netcraft.com] of all webservers run Linux.

    No. Two-thirds [netcraft.com] of all publicly visible web servers found by netcraft run Apache, but this includes many [freebsd.org] other [openbsd.org] operating [apple.com] systems [microsoft.com].
    • Two-thirds of all publicly visible web servers found by netcraft run Apache, but this includes many [bsd] other [bsd] operating [bsd on mach] systems [windows].

      *BSD I can deal with, but how many actual web sites running on Windows servers use Apache rather than IIS?

      • *BSD I can deal with, but how many actual web sites running on Windows servers use Apache rather than IIS?

        With more and more companies using Subversion for revision control, you can expect even more of them start using Apache httpd for other things as well. Of course, one may just just use svnserve instead of via Apache httpd.

      • *BSD I can deal with, but how many actual web sites running on Windows servers use Apache rather than IIS?

        Some, for sure. However PHP has *massive* performance problems on windows, so anyone running PHP should be using Linux. ZEND even sells a suite which claims that it brings windows PHP performance up to linux levels.

    • You forgot Solaris. We run Apache on Solaris, SUSE Linux, Windows in that order of importance.
  • by Chicane-UK ( 455253 ) * <chicane-ukNO@SPAMntlworld.com> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:53AM (#12598797) Homepage
    Microsoft seems to be continuing its efforts to rubbish Linux and the Open Source movement, but i've noticed one positive thing to come out of this.

    It seems the IT journalists are no longer taking what Microsoft says as gospel.. you read any Microsoft vs Linux type article or report and you'll see that the press regularly question Microsofts reasonings behind its attacks on Linux. In fact, apart from the handful of sites that seem to be permanently pro Microsoft, the majority seem sceptical about Microsoft! The BBC especially does a superb job on giving fair balance in its reports.

    Clearly Linux is beginning to get a major foothold, and I still genuinely feel Microsoft is worried and getting more so every day.
    • by basil montreal ( 714771 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:00AM (#12598834) Homepage
      I sell servers to the SMB space and I have always mentioned Linux as an option, but I have less than 2% of my server sales being bundled with Linux. I always get the same answer: people in the SMB space think of Linux as more of a enterprise tool. It is complicated to learn, and windows comes in a nice shiny box that they've been buying for years. It's a hard paradigm to break as a vendor... especially when MS products generate so much revenue.
      • by zulux ( 112259 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:16AM (#12598924) Homepage Journal
        have always mentioned Linux as an option

        Don't sell them "Linux"

        Sell the mom and pop company a "File Server" and a "Web Server" and an "Email Server"

        Don't sell them a Gentoo box with Samba, Apache and Postfix. They'll say "WTF?!?!"

        MS products generate so much revenue.

        MS Products would generate a lot of revenue, but free software generates a lot more income for us.
        • Don't sell them a Gentoo box with Samba, Apache and Postfix. They'll say "WTF?!?!"

          I would too, if you try to sell Gentoo to a Mom and Pop shop. Much better to sell them SuSE (bought by Novell) or some other commercial distribution. I'm sure Debian is fine too.

          Of course, OpenbSD, FreeBSD and NetBSD are excellent choises too if you want stability.

  • by toupsie ( 88295 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:54AM (#12598799) Homepage
    After polling 1,400 IT managers and CIOs in SMB corporations, his group found that 48% were not interested in Linux, 15% were not sure about Linux, and only 10% plan to evaluate Linux.

    What about the NFS & AFP corporations? Not everyone runs CIFS.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Two thirds of web servers run Apache, but many of them would be running Apache on Windows!
    • Have you ever tried running apache on windows? First of all it isn't even CLOSE to being an enterprise class web server, and even for a hobbiest running off a cable modem it barely makes it. That is just a bad combination, unfortunately.
  • Old news (Score:5, Informative)

    by Cromac ( 610264 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:55AM (#12598806)
    What's changed since this same report was discussed last month?

    http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/08/ 224225&tid=163 [slashdot.org]

    • That's why it seemed so familiar. Damn. Didn't we conclude that time that basically with the clever usage of words like 'only' and 'just', it gives that impression linux is doing badly, while it is basically doing well based on their own numbers? I mean, if half of them are not interested in linux, the other half is! Talk about distorting facts, etc.
    • Re:Old news (Score:2, Insightful)

      by vegaspctech ( 769513 )

      What's changed since this same report was discussed last month?

      Unfortunately, nothing here as the editors are still letting rewrites and reposts through as news.

  • by yagu ( 721525 ) <yayagu@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:56AM (#12598810) Journal

    Unfortunately Microsoft may be winning the war. And more scary in my opinion is Microsoft has shifted to more subtle means. What could be less intimidating than a web site dedicated to gently walking managers through the maze of technical issues ostensibly improving their (the managers) effectiveness?

    For me, all I need to do to consider which platform costs less to manage is look back over the span of my career... I've managed Windows and Unix systems for over twenty years (which means I've managed Windows systems for "x" years -- you pick when you first think that might be -- I know it hasn't been twenty years). And when I weigh how much I invest to keep systems running, Unix (linux included) always wins, easily.

    Of course, I found it unusual for management to ask me or any of my technical peers for recommendations, they typically get/got most of their advice gladhanding on the golf course, or from nice glossy brochures, and now, from slick benevolent web sites.

    Microsoft is one of the best at PR, and their "Get the Facts" campaign may be one of their most impressive successes (oh that Microsoft would be so successful developing and creating safe and secure software). But, Microsoft knows perception is 90% of reality. What they say only has to feel true and assuage the fears of managers justifying manager's choices to stay with Microsoft. Unfortunately it has become a Nobody ever got fired for choosing Microsoft world (remember when it was IBM?), and with Microsoft's huge lead and head start in controlling the marketplace I don't see this changing any time soon.

    What bugs me is when it bleeds into my area (I prefer doing my work in the Unix world...). For example, the time our team got a new member -- a new sysadmin who previously had been working and support Windows machines at our company. Our main server was a workhorse Sun Server and I had with reverence watched it chug away doing good work with an up time that had finally exceeded 550 days (not a huge record in the Unix world, but it was fun to see it go...). The Monday of week two of our new admin I was dismayed to see that our trusty Sun server now only had an uptime of less than two days. Sigh. Wasn't sure why, but reboots/crashes happen. Before I could do any more checking, "Bob" (not his real name) dropped by positively beaming and let me know he had noticed that luna (the server) had not been rebooted for a long time so over the weekend he had rebooted it for us! Universes collide! Sigh, again.

    I'd love to see good technology prevail -- unfortunately today the combination of effective PR and FUD campaigns combined with Microsoft's products turns out to be good cough enough.

    • I'll vouch for the "Universes collide!"

      We have a couple of windows admins that regularly reboots Unix platforms. It took a management directives to tell them "hands-off, buzzards!"

      These souless guys (and gals) don't have a clue what Telecom industry have been touting for so long, the holy grail of six 9s (99.9999%) uptime.
    • Face it, Microsoft is not really a software company -- software is only a minor part of their business. They are a marketing one.
    • How does such a person notice that a server hasn't been rebooted? Don't you have to know a little bit about UNIX to extract the uptime?
    • I'm not normally a violent person. But, I think I would have had to beat his ass.
    • Microsoft is one of the best at PR, and their "Get the Facts" campaign may be one of their most impressive successes (oh that Microsoft would be so successful developing and creating safe and secure software)

      As any hacker knows, social engineering is an order of magnitude easier and more effective than any technical effort.

  • "Winning the War" (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bsquizzato ( 413710 )
    Was Linux ever winning this war? Microsoft's been in the lead, it's just that Linux is playing catch-up.
  • by lheal ( 86013 ) <lheal1999NO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:58AM (#12598822) Journal
    This same group came out with the story '"Mid-Sized Companies Not Interested in Linux - Microsoft Still Dominates, Study Says" - April 5, 2005'.

    It looks like the same "study".

    Thanks, Slashdot, for giving the lame "study" more legs and contributing to Linux FUD.
  • Doubtful Data (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I seriously doubt those data and the credibility of the whole "study". This strikes me as another Microsoft-sponsored fabrication. My company is doing market research on about anything, including the use of operating systems, with sample pools that are more than a magnitude largers and we came to very different results that also indicate that Linux is on the rise in every segment, even on the corporate desktop market. Shame on Microsoft for spreading lies again!
  • Last I checked, Netcraft only checks the server that the site is running on. If 10 sites are all hosted on the same server, then they count 10 seperate servers. Anyone else think this kind of counting is flawed?
    • No. Both Apache and IIS are capable of running multiple sites. It is therefore a level playing field.

      If you can realistically run more sites on a single server with Apache than with IIS and/or if the TCO of Linux/Apache means that more hosting companies use Linux/Apache, then it's reasonable that Apache should score higher.

      Or look at it from the other point of view. Windows should not benefit from being less efficient, and therefore needing more servers to do the same job.

  • by TuringTest ( 533084 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @10:59AM (#12598831) Journal
    what are the percentages of IT managers and CIO who were not interested in Linux, were not sure about Linux, and planned to evaluate Linux before the Get the Facts campaign started?
  • by Drachasor ( 723880 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:00AM (#12598835)
    That survey only shows what people are thinking of Linux now. Suppose that before the campaign, only 5% were thinking of using linux and 90% were dead-set against it? Then the campaign would be backfiring. Without any data points on what people thought before, or what a control group of people who haven't been exposed to the campaign think, we can't tell how effective or inneffective "Get the Facts" has been. -Drachasor
  • Summary (Score:3, Funny)

    by Mensa Babe ( 675349 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:01AM (#12598837) Homepage Journal
    For those who don't want to RTFA, here is a summary:
    We think that you should buy from us.
    I am shocked! Shocked, I say!
  • by Ryvar ( 122400 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:01AM (#12598838) Homepage
    This may surprise to the parent poster but quite a few Apache installations are on top of Windows simply because people don't trust IIS - ditto BIND (which people shouldn't trust either, but let's not get into that). It shouldn't come as a shock that IT managers aren't evaluating Linux for servers as much anymore when you look at what's available in Windows Server 2003 and *BSD. I'm not as big a user of Linux as I used to be, so stop me if I'm talking out my ass here, but stripping Linux down to operate strictly as a server simply isn't what it used to be (in terms of effort required if nothing else) due to kernel bloat and dependency hell. Why would you use it when there are other OSes that provide everything else a server needs with less kruft?

    --Ryv
    • by fireboy1919 ( 257783 ) <rustypNO@SPAMfreeshell.org> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:28AM (#12599008) Homepage Journal
      Stripping down Linux is pretty easy. There are many distros that are already stripped down, and every distro I've ever tried has a "server" package, which includes only what you need to run a webserver.

      But even if you do the stripping yourself it's not that bad. Whenever you do something mainstream that lots of people do, you can do it the way everyone else does.

      The dependencies for apache are clearly known by pretty much every distribution. There's even a project to build everything you need from scratch if you just want to start with nothing and build up. In short, if you have dependency problems when you're dealing with apache, you're using a pretty messed up distro to start with, since virtually all of them solve that problem first.

      As far as kernel bloat...I don't know where you're getting this. Even a big kernel is tiny compared to any Windows kernel 95 or higher. Recompile the kernel, or download one of the many, many already created tiny kernels. It takes four minutes to configure and half an hour to recompile and install.

      *Note: Poster may be someone looking to Slashdot to do his research for him, and I didn't want to do so. I will, however, say that the links for all the things I mentioned are available at freshmeat.

    • by khasim ( 1285 ) <brandioch.conner@gmail.com> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:53AM (#12599160)
      It shouldn't come as a shock that IT managers aren't evaluating Linux for servers as much anymore when you look at what's available in Windows Server 2003 and *BSD.
      The article only accounts for 63%. That leaves 37% as either testing Linux or deploying it. And the annual figures for server sales seem to show increasing Linux sales.

      So where do you see the decline in interest?
      I'm not as big a user of Linux as I used to be, so stop me if I'm talking out my ass here, but stripping Linux down to operate strictly as a server simply isn't what it used to be (in terms of effort required if nothing else) due to kernel bloat and dependency hell.
      Okay. Stop. You're talking out of your ass.

      I use Debian on servers. It is ultra-simple to install a bare system and then add on only what I specifically want.

      And that isn't even counting recompiling the kernel or recompiling any packages. I'm sure you could get an extra 5-10% performance, but my systems are already on idle most of the time.
      Why would you use it when there are other OSes that provide everything else a server needs with less kruft?
      What "kruft"? Which OS's have less? Certainly not in Win2003, as you mentioned. You cannot remove services in that, just disable them.
  • For the campaign to work, people whom would be considering Linux would have to change their minds. In the SMB space, 50% of those responsible for IT policy (aka. the owners) likely don't have a clue. The "Get The Facts" campaign is likely raising the noticeability of Linux more than anything else.

    The SMB space (especially the S part) often consists of small offices (20) that have grown organically from a workgroup configuration. The migration is often to a single MS-SBS server at the instance of a rent-a
  • by Jukashi ( 240273 )
    Management isnt going to act on ethics. We need an example - a company that has clearly benefited from switching, and not just "we saved a couple bucks because our IT nerd is running a linux box for something I never knew existed". We need to convince the millions of people who sell stuff for a living that something free is the best option. It's a culture war, and either we fight that or "we had a better product but..." If we want linux to take over the business world then we need business men to do some he
    • I doubt many linux developers are doing it for world domination. However, it would be nice to have world compatibility - the ability to open any file format, the availability of linux drivers for hardware and the existence of fewer shoddy websites with ActiveX and broken CSS would all be good things for Linux users. None of these are going to happen in a Microsoft-dominated world. Linux looks to be the best contender for knocking MS off its perch, so I can only hope it does become more popular in the boardr
  • 100-(48+15) = ??? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Monkelectric ( 546685 ) <{slashdot} {at} {monkelectric.com}> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:04AM (#12598852)
    This article is complete crap, probably MS paid for like usual.

    If you do the equation above, you find that 37% of responses *AREN'T ACCOUNTED FOR*. Could it be that 37% of managers is using linux or PLANNING on using linux? Seems to be the logical conclusion to draw when 48% aren't planning on using linux, and 15% say they may evaluate it in the future.

  • by pipingguy ( 566974 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:06AM (#12598861)

    The stereotypical image of Linux (smelly, overweight nerds wearing Star Trek T-shirts) compared to Microsoft (suit-wearing shmoozers with lunch budgets to burn) explains all this.

    Decision makers tend to be more political and less technical in nature, that's how they got to be bosses.

    Of course, this is not always true as there are companies that have tech-backgrounded managers that do a great job. Find one and work for them.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:08AM (#12598874)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • And... ? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by alexhs ( 877055 )
    48% were not interested in Linux, 15% were not sure about Linux, and only 10% plan to evaluate Linux.

    And how much were locked-in using M$ ?

    By the way, 10% seems a good start to me... When 10% would have switched, maybe 10 other percent might consider to switch.

  • by alienw ( 585907 ) <alienw.slashdot@ ... inus threevowels> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:09AM (#12598880)
    I wouldn't worry about lack of Linux adoption due to FUD. Linux will win solely by virtue of its price if it actually becomes a good replacement for Windows. Think about it: if your business spends millions of dollars a year on Windows, a competitor who uses Linux will have a big advantage. It doesn't matter how much propaganda MS puts out, the issue will work itself out.

    Right now, Linux offers some advantages and has big disadvantages -- such as the lack of Windows compatibility. It would simply be impossible to replace it at my job, for instance, because many corporate applications that I use are only available for Windows (one is an ActiveX application, by the way). Obviously, Linux is not an option here.

    The real danger from Microsoft is software, file format, protocol and especially hardware lock-in. Microsoft has enough power to make that happen. Of course, all of this borders on unfair competition, so they will have some legal obstacles in that arena.
  • Beacuse they can do this thing called *Marketing*.

    Be it honest or not, marketing is what wins the battle.

    When was the last time you saw a linux commercial? When was the last time you saw a Microsoft commercial? Bet it was the microsoft one.

    Guess which one sticks in the minds of conusmers?

    This also goes for IT publications and IT consumers. The magazines are plastered with them. With very few linux ones ( mostly IBM ads )

  • by btk667 ( 722104 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:10AM (#12598889)
    When will we have a linux version of get the facts?
    We should compile a list of reason why GNU/linux is better or why it's TCO is lower.

    There are reasons why UNIX/Linux is better and there are also some arguments why "Windows" or closed source are good in some case.

    I haven't seen a objective debate about this.
  • Microsoft lobbying is usually very foolish, their lobbying and PR fires back on them. You do not have to write anti-MS stuff you just have to take their stuff and report it. As it is done here.

    I think microsoft is a huge promoter of Linux, even where Linux does really compete with Windows Sure, users will switch to Linux. Everybody does. Just be realistic.

    One example: Miciosoft lobbying for softwae patents. Microsoft hires x different lobbying hats to lobby for patenting of software, but they all behave l
  • A lot of SMBs have no in-house sysadmin. They rely on Microsoft for their IT solution. No reason why they couldn't rely on Red Hat or Novell; they just don't. Now. They'll figure it out in time.
    -russ
  • Small Businesses (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bayerwerke ( 513829 )
    I am willing to bet that many of these small businesses don't even have a dedicated server. Someone's desktop in a workgroup functions as a "Server" and calling one of the employees an IT Manager or CIO is probably quite a stretch.
  • Also... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Nijika ( 525558 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:27AM (#12599000) Homepage Journal
    Consider the true IT needs of most SMBs. They aren't all IT companies, in fact IT companies are probably in the deep minority. All most companies need is file sharing and printing, maybe with some calendar scheduling.

    Switching to Linux for most of these companies doesn't make sense.

    Now, on the front end, the websites etc, the e-mail forwarding, they probably are serving up pages using Linux and getting services from Linux and they don't even know it.

    We've got an IT mindset and I think it's a bit unrealistic. Those numbers actually look pretty reasonable to me, with or without the Get the Fud campeign.

  • Polling who? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dan14807 ( 162088 ) * on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:36AM (#12599061) Journal

    "polling 1,400 IT managers and CIOs"

    Polling who? Trying polling the people that actually do things. Those CIOs and managers probably don't even know what Linux and Windows are.

  • by vegaspctech ( 769513 ) <vegaspctech@yahoo.com> on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:46AM (#12599124) Homepage Journal

    In unrelated news, a recent survey of scientists reveals that most believe that the sun is still pretty darned hot. "You wouldn't want that puppy in your pants" said one source who wished not to be identified. Moon worshipers worldwide were quick to point out that the sun survey was commissioned by sun worshipers. One source, who wished not to be identified, said "Sure the sun makes a pretty good sun, but it would make a lousy moon, but those sun fanboys fail to point that out." Both sides of this hot debate agreed that you needn't fresh or original content to get a bunch of page hits, you can simply rehash something on slashdot.

  • by Simonetta ( 207550 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:50AM (#12599144)
    This is another good reason why Microsoft should buy Red Hat. Then Red Hat could focus on making some high-quality commercial tiny component of the 'computer solution to management issues'.
    Clueless management Barbies and Kens could claim their total allegiance to dominant monopoly capitalism (every met one that wouldn't?) while the real corporate computer system network could be running with Linux under the control of the technocracy (which is you if you're reading this).
    Microsoft Red Hat would provide the means for the Linux community to integrate competence and consistency into corporate computing while still testifying to senior management that they are still using the 'secure, stable, safe, and acceptable' Microsoft solution.
    For all their talk, deep down senior management only cares that that their computers work. Fear of Linux is simply the general corporate fear of anything unknown.
  • by gosand ( 234100 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:53AM (#12599159)
    May I still use Linux in spite of this story? Yes? Well then, who really cares?

    Does anyone really care about this "war"?

  • by cahiha ( 873942 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @11:58AM (#12599180)
    Most of those people probably already have Linux boxes. Their staff has likely snuck some in as firewalls and servers. Furthermore, lots of their embedded devices (access points, network storage, routers, etc.) run on Linux.

    The nice thing is that these people don't have to "investigate" Linux, Linux is coming to them, piece by piece. In Capitalist America, you don't adopt Linux, Linux adopts you :-)
  • by argoff ( 142580 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @12:05PM (#12599230)
    First fact, I make heavy use of Linux and open source and my skills are way way more in demand than my MS counterparts. And that reflects in my pay, and the fact that people are always coming to me for solutions.

    Second Fact, I can often provide all the IT infrastructure my company needs without even requesting a PO. In fact, while ohter people get haggled every time they make a purchase, I rarely even get questioned - which I think is because I do way more with way less then my counterparts do.

    Third fact, I really have few worries about an unwelcome visit from the BSA, and I don't mean boy scounts of america.

    Frouth fact, I rarely need to deal with all the license headaches, and the annual renew crap and forced upgrades that my counterparts do. In fact, upgrades and improvements are not a chore, and I am not terrorized that every upgrade will break everything.

    Fith fact, I get the pleasure of doing more RnD, because I don't need financial approval from a bean counter everytime I do something.

    Sixth fact, I rarely pay extra for things like compilers, office productivity stuff, graphics programs, and visus scanning is't even a worry accept for scanning linux SMB servers for others.

    Seventh fact, things like paravirtualisation, parallel clusters, email, databases, dns, web servers, and remore access to programs come standard in Linux.

    Eight fact, I can literally rip a Linux box out of one x86 box and place it in another and run kudzu and it recovers ausomely. Have you ever tried this with Microsoft?

    Ninth fact, those are all red herrings. What makes Linux vavuable is that it's not about technology, but freedom. People who talk about business and not freedom are cowards and ingrates to the culture and attitudes that made them successfull to begin with and over the long term they will certainly get what they deserve.
  • by Che Guevarra ( 85906 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @01:23PM (#12599628)
    Despite real strategic efforts by Microsoft to slow the adoption of Linux, the real culprit is the lack of coherent documentation for users during the adoption stage. I know this article is about businesses using Linux, but I have something to add to the tale. I graduated from college with an MIS degree (don't laugh). I have 2 Linux Distros running on my Mac at home and yet I haven't installed Linux on my Dell laptop where I really want it (microsoft hate) because the wireless card isn't supported by any Linux distro straight from install. Instead I've spent the last few days trying to decifer the forum posts and web pages of Linux experts to determine how to make an unsupported wireless card work and they use phrases and terminology that make perfect sense until I get to line X of the instructions that says something like "then recompile and make a sldfjksdf-sdf in the sldfjs" and suddenly I realize I'm not anywhere near the solution because I have yet another day's worth of homework to do. I can only imagine what it must be like when considering Linux for use in an enterprise environment. I hate to say it, but I'd rather have my documentation from a single source that has given an ounce of consideration to communication techniques and the end user's experience.
  • today's status (Score:4, Interesting)

    by speedbump ( 11624 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @01:25PM (#12599639)
    This kind of article always brings out the same argument, which we've beaten to death in this forum.

    The question seems to be, is Microsoft winning 'the war'?

    Oh, come now. All they are doing is fighting a rear-guard action. How could they possibly win in the long-term? The only way would be if we collectively stopped developing Linux and the applications which run on it, and go back to always buying Windows products. Does anyone really think that's going to happen?

    I am currently consulting for a company which has a variety of systems and applications going. About half of their software development effort goes to in-house, never-to-be-published applications. The other half is specifically for the purpose of public consumption. You know what? The public consumption side is all running or being converted to Linux/Apache/Tomcat. The internal stuff is still up for grabs, but this is a cultural issue, not a question of the technical merits of MS vs the world.

    I had a short timeframe to develop my current project, and I ended up going C# and .NET, because the other developer was a VB guy, and the learning curve for him would have made it impossible to meet our deadline. I am comfortable with the Linux/Apache world, and generally prefer it, but I must admit that we whipped out a smokin' application, thanks to the data support from Visual Studio. (Interesting side note: this app has VB for the data layer, but C# for the business logic and the presentation layer. We had absolutely no trouble integrating the two languages.)

    The Linux/Apache/Java side of the house is also grudgingly admitting we did a great job getting a fully-functional app out the door in a short timeframe. But they are also doing interesting things with Lucene and some other child projects of Apache.

    The state of things now at the comapny are that getting the job done is Job #1, and the folks who write the checks don't care whether MS is in the loop or not. But, as more of our IT staff begin using open source tools, the more our tech staff will start saying to the bean counters, 'hey, we don't need to buy a Microsoft license for this or that project.' And the beanies are going to be happy to go along with that!

    What's interesting to me, as a long-time Linux and FreeBSD guy, is that the quality of development tools that MS has had to create is a direct result of having to compete with the open source alternatives. And the quality and utility of those tools is accelerating.

    The real story is that WE win.
    • Excuse me, but do not confuse the open source movement with Linux. There is a very simple way for Microsoft to win this supposed war. All they have to do is provide more direct support for running GNU apps on the windows kernel in the Longhorn release. There have definitely been discussions of exactly that. Even without that, GNU/Windows already has a huge following via Cygwin, MingW and various other mechanisms. It would not surprise me in the least to find out that there are many GNU applications wit
  • by the_olo ( 160789 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @02:33PM (#12600048) Homepage

    Looks like someone is busy running:

    #!/usr/bin/perl -w
    # flood_MS.pl file

    use strict;
    use LWP::UserAgent;

    my $url = 'http://www.microsoft.com/getthefacts';
    # Internet Explorer 5.5 on Windows 2000:
    my $agent = LWP::UserAgent->new('agent' => 'Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0)');

    my $request = HTTP::Request->new(GET => $url);

    while (1) {
    my $reply = $agent->request($request);
    if ($reply->is_success) {
    print "Success getting $url\n";
    }
    else {
    print "Problem getting $url\n";
    print $reply->status_line, "\n";
    }
    }

    ...in 32 parallel processes by running this:

    for i in $(seq 32); do (./flood_MS.pl &); done;

    Shhh, I weren't supposed to give people bad ideas ;)

  • by OwlWhacker ( 758974 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @02:37PM (#12600075) Journal
    The campaigns against Linux seem to treat it as if it's something that used to be widely used but is now dwindling. We all know that this isn't true.

    Linux has really jumped up out of nowhere, and is now being considered by quite a large percentage of businesses.

    The 'facts' seem to show that Linux is growing in popularity at a phenomenal rate, and is battling extremely well against Microsoft's considering the lock-in/lock-out situation.

    The world complained about stability, and Microsoft made Windows more stable.

    The world complained about security, and Microsoft... well, it seems to be having a good try.

    Now, the world is complaining about lock-in, and Microsoft... oh dear. Is Microsoft going to open its protocols, APIs and file formats? I think not.
  • by GMFTatsujin ( 239569 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @03:39PM (#12600420) Homepage
    Let the businesses run their IT the way they want. That includes letting them run Windows.

    Then, be their competitor with an OSS solution. If it really makes a difference, you'll have the edge and it'll be that much easier to plow the other guy into the ground. Or they'll swicth over in order to survive.

    Honestly, why does anybody care what OS businesses are running? A bank or something with my money in it, yeah, but really, what difference does it make for Generic Company X, Y, or Z?
  • by cwg_at_opc ( 762602 ) on Saturday May 21, 2005 @05:59PM (#12601122) Journal
    instead of talking about their reports,
    how about the ugly reality of using Windows instead?

    Aggressive, Mass-Mailed Sober.p Worm Poised To Smack Users


    By Gregg Keizer, TechWeb News

    Monday may be a very bad day, a security researcher said Friday as he warned that the aggressive Sober worm of early May is timed to download new code the first day of next workweek.

    Sober.p, the mass-mailed worm that spread voraciously by virtue of its offer of free World Cup tickets, is poised to launch another attack Monday, said Dmitri Alperovitch, a research engineer with an Alpharetta, Ga.-based security firm CipherTrust"


    whenever someone gets the urge to post another stupid article about how MS is winning the FUD war, they should just post another REAL worm/virus/update/phish article complete with catchy tagline, links to other important security sites, etc.

    chris

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