The Truth About Linux and Windows 594
petrus4 writes "Groklaw has an update on the Laura DiDio saga. Apparently, her complaints about "Linux extremists" notwithstanding, cooler heads than the usual suspects are asking questions about her research. A very interesting read, and one which will hopefully encourage corporate readers to regard the Yankee Group's findings with the requisite metric ton of salt in the future."
If management believes Laura & Enderle's crap. (Score:5, Interesting)
They even subscribe to some Enderle research because they see him "well connected" to important companies like microsoft.
I can't understand how being a paid shill _incresease_ their credibility with management; but somehow it does. MBA's. go figure.
Re:If management believes Laura & Enderle's cr (Score:3, Funny)
They wouldn't have hire him to shill if he didn't know what he was talking about, right?
Re:If management believes Laura & Enderle's cr (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If management believes Laura & Enderle's cr (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:If management believes Laura & Enderle's cr (Score:5, Insightful)
From the linked article:
When SCO first made its claims that IBM had misappropriated some of its code and handed it over to the Linux community, SCO showed samples to several analysts to prove its copyrights were being infringed. DiDio, a former journalist and not a programmer, was one of them. She reported that SCO's claims seemed justified. She told me: "It appeared to be a direct cut and paste right down to the developers' notes." A couple of months ago, the judge in the case wrote that he had seen "an astonishing lack of evidence" backing up SCO's claims. On the phone, I asked DiDio's reaction to the judge's statement. She said: "I can't reconcile it. I want to see what's presented in court."
So... what you have is a woman who is not a programmer, making conclusive statements after looking at
There's a point, like the boiling point... let us call this point the Enderle point... at which you have simply lost all professional credibility. You are seen as nothing more than a suck up, a Nathaniel Branden of IT (Little Ayn Rand hatred slipped out there, sorry).
Can we now write DiDio off as a shill? Like that woman who did fake newscasts for Bush, or Robert Novak?
I personally, welcome shills like DiDio. Every day respectable journalists let a woman like her survive, they put another nail in their coffin and the net and social-based expertise groups become authoritative sources for real news pulling from many sources to draw complete conclusions. So, I say, good on her. Make a few bucks at the Microsoft trough. Sell credibility you never had in the first place. Kill the industry rags. More opportunity for other people to emerge as experts when the people you used to listen to are revealed as phonies.
Re:If management believes Laura & Enderle's cr (Score:3, Funny)
Simple.
Management is about lying about the need for management. It's primate hierarchy in organizational terms.
They therefore love liars who reinforce that lie.
Humans will ALWAYS - ALWAYS - make the wrong decision given two or more options. They will do this to spite the person with the correct option.
Because if that person is "right", then they're "wrong" - and if they're "wrong", they're dead - and that can't be allowed. So they're "right" and the other person is "wrong".
Human psychology is that simpl
Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Much (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Insightful)
If dodgy Microsoft volume license copies of XP weren't doing the rounds so much, then many home users would much rather use/try a free OS (Linux) than pay a hundred pounds for each incarnation of Microsoft Windows.
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:5, Insightful)
There was one recently that in a survey of over 600 kids, the ones who played video games were responsible for two-thirds of the violent acts recorded for the group.
How horrible! Ban video games, now!
Of course nowhere can it be found what percentage of those sruveyed played video games. If over two-thirds played video games, its just possible we should be forcing kids to play more video games.
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:2)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:5, Funny)
Thus, I know that a server would require a high-paid consultant to set up.
Dude, you really need to have a talk with my boss then. Tell him he needs to pay me more. I set up and maintain a few linux servers and firewalls here where I work and I'm sure as hell not high paid.
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:4)
BTW, If you *need* apps that only exist on one platform, you should probably stick with that platform. It would be foolish to pay for a custom build of a shrinkwrap product, especially when you consider the cost of maintenence.
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is the fundamental mistake for any company that does that.
Sooner or later (unless that app was made directly by IBM or Microsoft or a company on that scale), the company that made that app is going to go bust - or simply stop supporting that app - or replace it with a more expensive version.
Any company that does mission critical work on a proprietary app is going to end up like Linus with BitKeepe
Geez, that's sad (Score:3, Funny)
Uhm, I wouldn't admit that here. Makes people question your bona fides.
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:5, Funny)
or some kid in high school who needs a little extra weekend cash...
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:4, Informative)
I have not had a problem with bad installs in years.
I would agree years ago linux installs were not as easy
as they could have been, but time have changed a lot things.
If I get new hardware in, I test it to see if I have the drivers
I need to do the install. It is true linux does not
have all drivers for every piece of hardware out. If you have tried
installing linux lately, and it did not go well for you,
You still do not need the services of a consultant. What you
most likely need is the url of the hardware compatibility list.
Administering a linux server in not unlike maintaining
Microsoft servers. You will need to take the time to get accustomed to
the administrative task and applications. It is not out of your reach
to accomplish this. You should use the same sticktoitness that you
used to learn the Microsoft Os.
Good Luck on your next install.
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Informative)
1) All Linux distributions are not the same, or even close. Suse or Ubuntu are about all a beginner should use. Some distros are downright scary for non-experts (Slackware) while others pretend to be friendly even though they are not (Fedora/RedHat).
2) Servers are easy. Even on Windows it's harder to get a desktop system working with all hardware. In fact, Linux often does a better job at detecting hardware than Windows because on Win
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:4, Insightful)
A typical Windows server requires a huge amount of work making sure that everything is properly disabled, and that permissions are set up right.
Linux usually consists of saying chkconfig XXXX off a number of times, for everything that doesn't need to be running.
Then you get the security issues. With Windows, you need to update quite often, while with Linux you can get away with about once a month. Plus, on Linux, you get your updates in pieces, so you only have to update what you are actually vulnerable for.
The maintenance cost of a Linux _server_ is much less than that of Windows. The cost of a Linux desktop is smaller if used as a thin client, and greater otherwise.
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:2)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:2)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Insightful)
That's being very generous. If I were to assume the going rate for IT work ($50/hour+), a Linux install would cost us *thousands* more than a Windows install.
That's not true. While people say "OSS is only free if your time is worthless", they forget to mention that you need just as much time with windows. Linux can be installed very quickly by someone who knows what they're doing. There are also powerful, automated setup programs available that any competent Unix admin should be able to use. Using th
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Interesting)
The difference is like purchasing a Fiat as opposed to being given a Ferrari.
Now, I've never owned a Ferrari, but I have owned an equivelent Maserati as well as several Fiats, so I can appreciate the difference that cost of operation alone can entail.
But here's the thing, if you can already do your own Fiat repair and maintenance in house you already have most of the skills and physical plant needed to maintain a Ferrari in house. Y
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3, Funny)
You might want to rethink this. This usually means they've been held back a year.
Re:Half of Users Already Know Windows Costs Too Mu (Score:3)
However, it is important to also realize the costs of using Windows. If this system is in any way connected to the Inte
Finally, the truth! (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:3, Insightful)
The truth of the matter is that you should choose the operating system that suits your needs. If you want an inexpensive machine for Computer Science studies or to learn UNIX networking or even as a SOHO server for the advanced user, Linux is your game. Similarly, for gaming, business applications, enterprise servers or streaming media from your computer to your TV you won't go wrong with Windows.
But to get caught up in "OS 1 is better than OS 2" debates is pure silliness, especially when you can run both easily.
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:5, Funny)
Personally I like OS/390.
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, but OS/2 might become open-source! [slashdot.org]
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:3, Informative)
By any chance, did you mean "divisive"?
I know, being picky about spelling. But in my defense I will point out that "deviceive" isn't even a word!
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:2)
If the president of the USA can do it, anyone can!
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:4, Funny)
Anybody that tells you that Solaris is better than MS-DOS, or MS-DOS is better than Solaris is, at best, simply wrong.
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, the joys of the broad-stroked brush. Let's take this apart, shall we?
Which aspect of gaming: the server or the client? If you're talking about the client then, sadly, yes, Windows holds the edge here, since the graphics and sound drivers are more mature and better supported. However, for a server -- especially a public one -- you'd be a complete fool to put anything less secure than a Linux box on the net. Even better to put up one of the BSD variants.
The strokes don't get broader than this. But basically, all Windows is good for here is running Office (Word, Excel, Powerpoint). Everything else is better off running on Linux: Intranet Web servers, email servers, file servers, backup servers, Oracle, and corporate firewall.
There is nothing magic about streaming media, especially when it's done from a bunch of audio files stored on disk. Windows' proprietary DirectX brings nothing to the table here. So that means selecting for a robust, secure server platform, which makes the choice fairly obvious...
Schwab
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:5, Informative)
Gaming, agreed, the driver support is there for fancy games and the commercial support is there for publishers, while at the same time nearly all good open-source games get ported to Windows. This is not a technical advantage, but an advantage of market penetration, and one that is a chicken and egg dilemma that may never get solved (gamers won't embrace linux until there are games, publishers won't embrace linux until gamers do).
Business applications, it really depends on which 'business apps' we are talking about. For many applications, you can essentially quote the previous paragraph. Quicken, MSOffice, and the incredible amount of one-off crap that can only afford to cater to one platform, and only one platform has a large enough market to sustain them....
However, a number of professional engineering applications can benefit greatly from running on Linux workstations. The business app argument is simply too broad, and ultimately this argument comes down to what applications are needed...
Enterprise servers, here is one field where I find it hard to believe anyone would automatically dismiss Linux and proclaim Windows the hands-down winner. To some extent, this too boils down to what administrative staff you can acquire and their experience, but if there is one profitable place where Linux shines it is making effective use of hardware resources in a robust, easily managed and reliable fashion. I will say for directory, maybe AD could be considered the better choice, Directory in general hasn't needed to be high performance, and ease of administration of AD is fairly high compared to OpenLDAP. However, MySQL/PostgreSQL, Apache, Samba, et. al. offer more flexibility than the MS-only counterparts, and even when the application can run under either platform, they are generally oriented toward linux-like behavior, feel more native in Linux, and greatly benefit from less-cruft found in Linux.
Streaming media to your TV? I would say MythTV hands down is *the* incredible platform of choice. I dislike their file browser for non-TV videos (it assumes encoded movies and a flat-view would be appropriate, even though series would be better represented by expandable entries), but I wrote my own and that really isn't the majority of people who would want that feature.
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:3, Informative)
SAP on Linux [sap.com]?
Siebel on Linux [techtarget.com]?
ePiphany [epiphany.com] on Linux?
Oracle on Linux [oracle.com]?
Websphere on Linux [ibm.com]?
Weblogic on Linux [bea.com]?
Linux on bladeservers [ibm.com], Power architecture [ibm.com] and mainframes [ibm.com]?
Mi amo, you have indeed a very limited view of Linux, enterprise servers and business applications, or possibly both.
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:3, Insightful)
Nonsense. "Better" is an opinion. Objectively, opinions can't be "wrong". Subjectively, it all depends on the context (what you want, what you can do, etc).
So when someone says Linux is better, or Windows is better, the context makes it subjectively true or false. Windows is certainly a better OS to run Age of Empires and Linux is certainly a better OS to run Apache on, in most reasonable context
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:4, Funny)
[I can't wait until Linux] has at least ONE application that is useful for my business.
VMware [vmware.com] runs on Linux... ;-)
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:4, Informative)
They chose it over a Windows based POS. (Aloha, now owned by Radiant Systems.. though in Aloha's case POS = piece of shit)
So there's one. Don't you read trade magazines?
As far as Quickbooks, etc, have you ever tried GnuCash? It may have what you're looking for, and it's included on several Live CD's - take a look over on Distrowatch.com, pick one or ten, and try them out.
Re:I don't know why this is so deviceive. (Score:4, Interesting)
You have an excellent point, there is a significant shortage of commercial business applications for the Linux platform. Personally, if I could purchase a copy of Quickbooks for Linux as cheaply as I can Quickbooks for Windows I would do it in a heartbeat.
OTOH, it is a sad thing when the only real advantage of a particular operating system is the third party applications that are available for it. 'Sure, Windows is expensive, less secure, prone to viruses and spyware, slow and unstable, but hey, It will run Quickbooks.'
Amazingly enough, Linux does have many applications available that can save many office environments money (gimp, gnumeric, OpenOffice, abiword) as well as backend server type functionality that can be used with Windows (samba, apache, sendmail, qmail, postfix) not to mention all of the web apps (intranets, monitors, ldap, etc..) that can be run on apache.
If Linux fits in your business now, great, if not, contact your vendor (Intuit) and request a Linux version. They will never come out with one if no one asks for it.
The truth is... (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Linux is being adopted and the rise in compromised roots is testament to this. I salute the geniuses who've sold Linux without regard to education of the average business user on security.
3. Windows will not be killed. Not going to happen. We will have competition indefinitely. And this is a good good thing.
Re:The truth is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The truth is... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, I know that whenever my mom, who uses windows, needs her computer to do something new, she constantly complains that she can't just fire up a C++ editor and make the changes to the source code herself.
And my six year old nephew was complaining that his games were kind of sluggish. Poor kid can't just look at the source and find the problems.
Face it, the ability to change
Re:The truth is... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's just not true. I may never edit the source of a project or fork it. But I still benefit from the fact that others more knowledgeable than me can. Because of the forking and bugfixing that exists in the open source world I have:
Firefox instead of Netscape or IE
BMP instead of XMMS
Xorg instead of Xfree
Bug fixes that come faster than in the proprietary world
And I'm sure there's more that I'm just unaware of since I'm not a coder. A recent small example is that the latest Gnome didn't come with a menu editor. People complained and eventually a user (a non Gnome developer) made one. Now we're happy. Wouldn't have been so easy if they didn't have the code. See this article [slashdot.org] about how someone had to reverse engineer OSX just to get a desktop switcher. Which will probably become broken with the latest OSX release.
Re:The truth is... (Score:2)
Re:The truth is... (Score:4, Funny)
It's so nice to see a
Re:The truth is... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The truth is... (Score:5, Interesting)
3. What happens when the expanding markets of India and China grow a new customer base that is bigger than all existing computer users at present, and they choose not to use Windows in those systems?
Re:The truth is... (Score:2)
Plus try the same thing with windows if you dont have a graphics driver at hand
The ammount of compromised roots ? got any fiqures to back that up
Last but not least , We don't(most of us) want to destroy windows , we want options (personaly i dont use windows at-all and im glad i can do that thanks to the w
Re:The truth is... (Score:3, Insightful)
What about the geniuses who've sold Windows "without regard to education of the average business user on security?" How many SMBs have bought Small Business Server 2003 and had IIS compromised?
Also, you made the classic uninformed mistake of confusing Linux distribution-level mistakes with the quality of
Re:The truth is... (Score:2, Interesting)
In contrast to what?
My IT department can't explain why the suspend option disappeared on my whiz-bang XP notebook. I only wish there was some config file I could tweak to bring it back.
I'm not saying Linux is perfect, but it seems you're implying that Windows is "zero hassle", which it clearly isn't.
Compromised roots, huh? It's cool that you've drunk th
Re:The truth is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Niether is Microsoft Windows. Ask almost anyone who uses Windows. It's a hassle.
The issues you mention are installation. Few people could do a full windows install, including all vendor supplied device drivers.
The actual truth is BOTH systems are far beyond the capabilities of average, unsophisticated users, or anything other than casual day-to-day usage of common applications.
3. Windows will not be killed. Not going to happen. We will have competition indefinitely.
If you call 90% Microsoft market share with exclusionary back-room deals at all major computer manufacturers so that virtually no PCs ship with competitors products... then yet, looks like it's gonna be that way for some time. I just wouldn't call it "competition". "Monopoly" might be a much better word.
In other news... (Score:2, Funny)
Both companies are American, right? Profit!
Yeah, but for those of us in Texas... (Score:2)
This feels odd (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This feels odd (Score:3, Funny)
Just toe the partyline, embrace Linux and Stallmanism and join the collective.
Re:This feels odd (Score:2, Insightful)
For example, there's a massive host of conservatives (economic and/or social) here who constantly suggest that they're going to be modded down for their views. Of course, they rarely are, since a sizable portion of the site's visitors agree with them.
Beyond that, it often seems that there are more "believe it or not, I like Windows" types here than the stereotypical Linux zealot. Seriously, Slashd
Re:This feels odd (Score:2, Funny)
But i like mod points more!
And in other news (Score:2, Funny)
The more i read that name (Score:5, Funny)
And the more i read what Dildio has to say the more i think my dyslexia is right
Re:Joke (Score:2, Insightful)
With The animosity she causes by her ill-informed rants
Yes also it was not sexist , Its just her name is Didio and not Schillster as i would rather have made a joke calling her a schill or a tool but it wouldnt of
Hmm.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hmm.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hmm.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Very true, and much of the time it makes no difference. But when you're conducting a study on software costs, it makes sense to make sure the people you're asking questions of do know, or else the results are meaningless.
Re:Hmm.... (Score:3, Insightful)
The real truth is ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The real truth is ... (Score:3, Interesting)
It doesn't matter what's Linux's flaws are - they will be remedied by market forces sooner or later.
Great! Glad to know that you understand the power of the market to shape things. Say, um, why wouldn't you think that Windows, which is produced by a completely market-oriented company, would be shaped by the same influences? If people won't buy it, Microsoft will change it. As they have, and continue to do, in response to what people need
Re:The real truth is ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure it is, but unless you have competition you don't evolve any further. That's why you see pages on Microsoft's site titled "What's new with Internet Explorer" with a last-change date some time in 2003.
The market doesn't work without competition. Microsoft doesn't have any competition because they evolved a strategy of expanding by locking out competing products rather
My own MS/ Linux comparison (Score:5, Interesting)
Spare Dell 400 mhz - 50$
mandrake -$
mysql - $
The office unknown to me had bought this very expensive win 2004 dell server (there network/computer consulting co told them they needed it to host my appliation). It was over 2000$. They didn't need it and the company couldn't install apache/mysql/php (Who do I call for support?).
I installed the linux and everything in about 4 hours. Linux installs have gotten much much better. Scary easy.
Basically the linux server has been chugging away for over a year with no problems. hardly maintenance. Nothing (Its behind a firewall). The windows server has had all sorts of networking issuse that keeps a tech visiting the office once a week.(granted its doing more but still).
Which is cheaper again???
Well since we are doing anecdotes (Score:5, Insightful)
We needed an Oracle server for a project at work. Because of the non-critical, but fairly high demand, nature of the app it needed a dedicated server, rather than getting to run on the shared Oracle server on the departmental Solaris box. So a simple Dell desktop was purchased with the fastest P4 available, plenty of RAM and IDE RAID-1 disks. This was fast enough to meet the needs, and it was decided stable enough for this application. If the server died it'd take at most a couple days for Dell to replace it, and that was an acceptable amount of time for it to be out of service.
Now because of anti-Windows zealotry of some people, it was decided that the server had to run Linux, SuSe was what they wanted. We didn't actually have anyone that was very experienced in Linux, mind you, just people that didn't like Windows, and Linux was the only viable x86 alternative to run Oracle on.
I tried several times to get SuSe to work, but it wouldn't. I did a net install from a CD, but after it was up it wouldn't get on the Internet anymore. I couldn't figure out what was happening. Answer turned out to be the network card was listed as unsupported by SuSe. Odd, given that their installer supported it fine.
So we switched to RedHat. Now I couldn't get the mirroring to work. Our Solaris guy came and fought with it for a couple days and got it working. I then went back to getting Oracle installed. This I could never get working, despite repeated attempts. The documentation didn't help, since it was assuming different things than what I had. Turns out this is because Oracle supports RedHat Enterprise Linux, not normal RedHat. Finally I was fed up and said "You want Linux, you install it." They fought with it for a few mroe days before calling Oracle who said "If it's not a supported OS we won't talk to you."
That put everything on hold since RHEL is quie expensive. I asked if I could please just try to install it on XP. They said fine, but it wouldn't work. I installed and patched XP, then installed Active PERL since that was needed for interfacing. I then put in the Oracle CD, told it to install, and it did so flawlessly.
So in the end what was about 2 weeks of fighting with Linux to no resolution was fixed in about 2 hours by installing Windows. The Windows license was to the effect of $100 (we got a discount). RHEL was looking like $1500 I think. Who knows what cost in staff time it would have taken to hack it to run on non-supported Linux, if it was even possible.
So in this case, Windows was a MUCH cheaper option.
Now this isn't to try and claim Windows is always cheaper, but rather to point out that little anecdotes, espically when related to s tiny server for a small project, aren't valid as evidence of a trend. Yes, there certianly are situations where Linux is the cheapest option, because it is available at no cost. However there are certianly cases where it's not, because the costs of making it work, or costs because of losses due to problems exceed the savings of not having to pay for it.
It's not a black and white issue.
Re:Well since we are doing anecdotes (Score:5, Insightful)
So, in other words, don't try to learn something on the job that is critical to your ability to do that job.
So, in other words, hire people that know what they are doing.
So, in other words, buy hardware that is supported by the software you intend to run.
So, in other words, don't buy software from a company that does not intend to support your use of their software.
So, in other words, plan what you are doing before you do it.
Re:Well since we are doing anecdotes (Score:3, Insightful)
Snip...
Our Solaris guy
This is where I stopped reading. Sounds like you were put to a task for which you weren't qualified, which is unfortunate.
Why didn't the Solaris guy do it to begin with? Linux is not Windows. Linux is more like Unix. Haven't you noticed all the hubub with SCO?
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Putting Windows admins at work on Linux is an exercise in futility (or sick humor, depending).
Re:Well since we are doing anecdotes (Score:4, Insightful)
1) RHEL is not very expensive when compared to Oracle
2) RHEL was designed to Oracle's specs. As was SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server which is probably what they wanted you to be using not Suse home or Suse professional or whatever you picked.
3) You can get Oracle to run on a non supported Linux, I've done it, but
a) you really need to understand how Oracle works and how your Linux works well. You are going to be faking out libraries and things like that so if you can't go to your
b) just follow somebody else's instructions.
4) Why would you be running a system with actual load on a desktop? Further there are no desktops that Dell sells that running at 100% would tax the resources of a well deployed Oracle on a suffecient large Solaris box installation. So that doesn't make sense.
5) Oracle itself is a total pain to install. Who handled that (and by install I mean actual get to do what you want).
6) Considering Oracle specifically lists XP as a supported operating system how is it a great feat that Oracle installed on XP. A fair comparison would be installing it on Windows 95 or something.
no more politics! (Score:2, Insightful)
More references (Score:3, Informative)
Joe Zwers wrote a good article about Truth in benchmarking [serverworldmagazine.com] and how some companies blantantly manipulate data to reach marketing goals.
Slashdot coverage on earlier Linux vs Windows studies: here [slashdot.org], here [slashdot.org], here [slashdot.org], here [slashdot.org] and here [slashdot.org].
We also coverd a Microsoft study on W vs L [slashdot.org]
Can't we just settle the argument? (Score:5, Interesting)
TCO Laugher (Score:5, Informative)
Linux has five advantages that simply render the conversation moot:
Cost of licenses
Customizability
Training Costs
Security
Out of box functionality
Linux licensing costs are self-explanatory. Hard to beat zero.
Linux is completely customizable. You can change anything and everything to fit your need.
MCSE certs are expensive. Linux certs are less so. Conversions from windows end users to linux are fairly painless. Sorry, Yankee, but learning how to operate a one windowing user interface is pretty easy when you are familiar with another.
Linux Security isn't perfect - but it's a quantum leap from Windows.
Where Windows cannot compete is with the out of the box capabilites of most every Linux distro. With Windows, you have to purchase thousands of dollars of software licenses to do what I can with my free download of Mephis or whatever. End user software is included. So is Server software. I'm out a minimum of $300 just to be able to do basic productivity. All those CALs add up with Windows.
Re:TCO Laugher (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft estimates the retraining and lost productivity costs of upgrading from one version of Windows to a newer one at about $2000 per seat. So I'd estimate the costs of switching users to Linux is at least that. However, if you're being forced to upgrade anyway, you might as well bite the bullet and train your users to use Linux... and yes, you'd be out at least $1000 using Windows to get the same functionality you get out-of-box with Linux (e.g. compilers) but most users don't need all that functionality anyway.
Groklaw is about as close to the middle as Neptune (Score:3, Insightful)
I've got a bone to pick with the never-ending stream of studies by tech research outfits comparing Linux to Windows. For starters, it seems like about half of them are paid for by one camp or another.
If we agree that this is the main premise, I have a problem with the write-up on Groklaw in the first place. I think it's unlikely that most corporations (to whom the original study was aimed at) will find much value in an article on a site that has never displayed much consideration for corporate interests.[1]
[1] Unless they happen to be interests that parallel the Linux community
Re:Groklaw is about as close to the middle as Nept (Score:4, Informative)
Unless you believe that BusinessWeek has no consideration for corporate interests.
Great Article (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a dual-boot XP/Gentoo box. I love Gentoo (and Linux in general) to death. Why do I persist in keeping XP on my box? For the games. I am a games fiend to the point that only XP can feed the passion. Do I keep any critical information on the XP side? Hell, no! I use XP for games, nothing more. Linux is what I use when I need to get work done.
That having been said, I remember someone from the Microsoft camp (Ballmer?) claiming that "Linux is a toy." Well, MS if I only use XP for games, which OS do you think is more deserving of being called "a toy?" Although, I'm sure Yankee Group and her collection of didiots could put a different spin on it.
Re:Great Article (Score:3, Funny)
A much better name would be "Dildio" - seeing as she provides an artificial source of stimulation and pleasure to those whos normal equipment is... lacking (you do know why they call it "Micro-Soft"?)
Funny thing, statistics (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux here is suffering from the same issue that Mac/Windows comparisons suffer from- Everyone has used Windows, but not everyone has used Macs, so quoting statistics such as "75% of computer users think non-Windows computers also have virus, spyware and security issues" really doesn't say squat, unless you ONLY survey those who use both regularly... but since that intersection is a much smaller set than the "set of all computer users", you run into other issues. or?
Survey finds Laura Didio to be SB (Score:4, Funny)
75% said she was a stupid b%$^*
12.5% said she was a mindless whore.
12.5% said "who's Laura Didio".
Powerpoint presentations are currently being edited. This is a 3rd party survey so we can't give out any particulars of the survey or how it was presented. But we can tell you that no corporate sponsorship was involved.
Re:Survey finds Laura Didio to be SB (Score:3, Insightful)
Just wondering.
How much is Linux really gaining? (Score:3, Insightful)
More mailing lists (Checkpoint FW-1) and stuff (Squirrelmail too) are getting more posts about Windows. Even the simply trouble ticket system I've used (osticket) now has tons of Windows questions posted in the forums.
Is it just the competency of the admins? Quite possible, but if one was going to take a Google around the web, they might be inclined to think that Windows was the OS to throw weight behind in the server market.
Just a thought. Maybe a poor one, but it's definitely something to notice.
Re:The truth is... (Score:3, Insightful)
No - everything is not relative. To say "everything is relative, even this statement" would suggest that for some people the statement isn't relative, which would mean that for some people truth isn't relative. Truth exists outside your perceptions, Dewey-wannabe. "Realitity is as you experience it to be?" No. Reality is that stuff that continues even when you choose to ignore it.
Saying "for some things, MS Windows is better. For other things, Linux is better" doesn't mean it's relat
Re:The truth is... (Score:2, Funny)
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Re:Linux extremist? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, think of it like this: we stepped outside, noticed the house was on fire, and we're trying to tell you to get the fuck out of there while you still can. Yes, I'd say we're a pretty zealous lot.
Re:Linux extremist? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have therefore got my old P2 350 running at home, and via SSH, bittorrent all my wanted TV shows to that, before FTPing it to my Uni box.
I'm a linux extremist? No, it just gets the job done.
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Re:Beware (Score:2)
Don't believe anything you hear, and only half of what you say."
Re:this computer cost me £20 (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that this is the funniest thing about Microsoft. They tout their perpetually-[insert bad thing here] operating system and expensive software while they really should be pushing their pretty good mice and keyboards. Dunno about the Xbox though, I generally prefer my consoles not randomly catching on fire.