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Data Storage Software Businesses Linux Apple

Terra Soft Offers Linux-booting iPods, FW Drives 213

Posted by timothy from the no-no-booting-your-mac dept.
Kai Staats of Terra Soft writes "We are pleased to now offer support for bootable iPods and FireWire drives, enabling a highly portable Linux on PowerPC environment." Note that this is about booting a Macintosh into Linux, not running Linux on the iPod.
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Terra Soft Offers Linux-booting iPods, FW Drives More

Terra Soft Offers Linux-booting iPods, FW Drives

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  • Huh? (Score:2, Funny)

    by SmokeHalo ( 783772 )
    iPods with Front Wheel Drive?

  • Ah, but... (Score:5, Funny)

    by PornMaster ( 749461 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @04:44PM (#11893722) Homepage
    Is this how Linus boots his Mac?

  • Honest journalism (Score:3, Informative)

    by GrouchoMarx ( 153170 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @04:44PM (#11893726) Homepage
    At least for a change they're not trying to pretend this is a real article instead of a commercial. They're being very obvious that it's an unpaid advertisement. That's an improvement for Slashdot of late.

    Sad.
    • "At least for a change they're not trying to pretend this is a real article instead of a commercial."

      Commercials are not exempt from being 'news for nerds'.

  • Woah! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @04:45PM (#11893731)
    "Terra Soft Solutions(R), Inc., the leading developer of integrated PowerPC Linux solutions"

    Woah! Leading developer of integrated PowerPC Linux solutions. That's impressive! I wonder if there is a second place?
    • Uhm, IBM?

    • Re:Woah! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Jozer99 ( 693146 )
      What about IBM? After all, they are one of the worlds largest companies. Also, they are the leading developer of PowerPC, seeing as they are the designers and one of the only manufacturers of such chips. Don't they use that Linux thingie there too?

  • Honest Question (Score:3, Interesting)

    by American AC in Paris ( 230456 ) * on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @04:45PM (#11893736) Homepage
    I honestly wish Terra Soft the best of luck with this venture, but I can't help but wonder how large market is going to be.

    Setting aside the "because I can" and "because it's Linux" arguments, what is the benefit of running YDL instead of OS X on one's Mac?

    • Setting aside the "because I can" and "because it's Linux" arguments, what is the benefit of running YDL instead of OS X on one's Mac?

      Oh, I don't know, but not every Linux app is ported to Darwin, and maybe someone only wants to run Linux apps. I know if I had Mac hardware and only wanted to run OpenOffice and Evolution and the GIMP, I'd get rid of OSX and install Linux, just 'cause it's easier to get those working, and the interfaces would be more at home in Gnome than OSX (I like consistency).

      Anyway, t

      • Re:Honest Question (Score:3, Informative)

        by HiThere ( 15173 ) *
        Gimp works fine under OS X. True, it's an X Window application, but it still works fine...and it tries to hide it's root from naive users.

        OTOH, I have a Mac portable that I intend to get properly configured one of these days. (I need to clear a space near an internet connection that has enough headroom to open the case, and get MOL properly set up. Currently it's either Linux OR Mac, I can't boot into Linux and then open a Mac window for a game.)

        And THAT's the reason that I have OSX installed. Games a
        • Yes, I believe that all the apps I mentioned (GIMP, OOo, and Evolution) have been ported to Darwin and will run under OSX's X server. However, that's not the same as saying I've gotten them to work. Granted I haven't tried in a while, but I suspect that it's still easier and faster to get them running on YDL (since they're installed by default) rather than OSX. Plus, like I said, they won't look like native OSX apps, so they'd be more at-home in a Gnome desktop.

          Personally, as far as DEs go, my preferenc

        • Re:Honest Question (Score:3, Interesting)

          by humina ( 603463 )
          Unfortunately the lack of an airport driver is the main reason I have not gone with Linux on my Mac. I prefer a 100% open source operating system instead of apple's open source darwin/closed source aqua. That and I can't check homestarrunner.com cause there's no open source flash viewer and macromedia won't release ppc closed source compatible version.
      • Of course, Old world macs aren't firewire bootable either. But YDL is very fast on old world macs compared to OS X via Xpostfacto on old world hardware. (which is still good if not aged hardware) I'm currently running OS X on a G3 upgraded Powercomputing clone (thanks to Xpostfacto). at 420Mhz, it is slow compared to YDL on a Beige G3 266. So it is either OS 9 or YDL on old hardware. It is getting harder to get modern web browser features on OS 9.
        • I'm currently running OS X on a G3 upgraded Powercomputing clone (thanks to Xpostfacto). at 420Mhz, it is slow compared to YDL on a Beige G3 266. So it is either OS 9 or YDL on old hardware. It is getting harder to get modern web browser features on OS 9.

          My mother-in-law is using OS X on a Beige G3 PowerMac.

          She knows it's slow compared to modern machines, but it's a heck of a lot more capable than the 486/66 it replaced... for her uses, it appears to be fast enough, though I can certainly see why Apple do

    • IDGI either, what's the point of having a Mac-only Linux on ones iPod instead of a boot-anywhere LiveCD so you can boot an otherwise worthless (and much more widely available) Windows box and just use your iPod/Flashdrive as storage?
      • IDGI either, what's the point of having a Mac-only Linux on ones iPod instead of a boot-anywhere LiveCD so you can boot an otherwise worthless (and much more widely available) Windows box and just use your iPod/Flashdrive as storage?

        Terra Soft focuses on the linux on PPC arch. Maybe you think that is pointless but do we really need another live cd that is x86 only? Do you think it's a good idea that no one focuses on linux on other architectures?
        • You're missing the point.

          I understand that people want to be able to boot their Macs into Linux without having to reinstall the internal drive. I might use this myself, just to play with Linux on my Mac Mini.

          What I'm talking about is the idea of using this capability as a kind of "portable Linux". There are so few situations where one might find a free and unused Mac (since a Mac is almost always going to be actually in use: "People like to use the Macintosh"), but there's Windows-infested PCs everywhere.
      • In addition to the respondant who asks "why would we need yet another x86 bootable cd" -- have you ever tried to use a system running off a bootable Linux CD? I'm the first to admit that these live CDs are great for the "wow - everything works" test, but I tried using Knoppix on cd on a PIII 600ish laptop - everything worked but it took about forever for Konqueror to load up off the cd. Same interminable wait for starting up any other program. I think it goes without saying that running the OS off a HD i
        • So don't load Konq off the CD. Just put enough on the boot CD to boot the OS, and run the apps off your iPod or flash drive.

          The point is that there's 30 PCs out there for every Mac, and probably 90 unused PCs for every unused Mac, and 180 PC-based internet cafes for every Mac one... so a solution that gets you up and running on a PC is ninety nine and forty four hundredths percent* more likely to get you up on Linux at some random location when you need it than a Mac one. And once you're in Linux it doesn'
    • Seriously. How *dare* they question the Gospel of Jobs?

    • Re:Honest Question (Score:5, Insightful)

      by javaxman ( 705658 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @05:30PM (#11894263) Journal
      Setting aside the "because I can" and "because it's Linux" arguments, what is the benefit of running YDL instead of OS X on one's Mac?

      Setting aside those two arguments ( which are fairly compeling, but we'll set them aside since you say so ) there is only one scenario I can think of where I'd run Linux on *my* Mac, but it's entirely likely. I currently use a Mac at home. What if, next month, I get a gig programming in a Linux environment? Am I going to go out and buy a whole new machine, or am I going to install Linux on my existing hardware?

      If I can install Linux on my existing hardware, I'm going to. But I'm not going to want to boot my machine that way all the time, because OS X has a good number of apps that I use ( for non-work purposes ) which don't exist ( really ) under Linux, and I'm not sure the wife and 3-year-old are ready to make the switch ot Linux.

      So doing the external-hard-drive thing would be neat. And using something as tiny as an iPod to carry my entire Linux world around between home and work? Even cooler.

      Instead of buying a new mobo for my outdated PC that's been sitting idle for years now, I can buy an iPod, and maybe even write it off! Super-cool.

      As for the market? It's probably not huge, but does it need to be? I thought OSS was about having options, not about having the biggest install base...

      • If I can install Linux on my existing hardware, I'm going to. But I'm not going to want to boot my machine that way all the time, because OS X has a good number of apps that I use ( for non-work purposes ) which don't exist ( really ) under Linux, and I'm not sure the wife and 3-year-old are ready to make the switch ot Linux.

        Run MOL. You get MacOS X either fullscreen or in a window but with Linux running at all times. MOL is fast and stable. Even GUI effects like Expose are speedy enough. You can even

      • well, this is what products like VMWare were created for.

        Plus, you could simply dual-boot the machine. Adding a second hard drive would be a lot cheaper than buying an ipod.

        I'm assuming the idea is being able to take all your work between locations where you have a computer(such as home and work), and being able to boot up linux...without needing a laptop.

        Of course thats exactly why i bought a laptop: I got sick of using computers at school that didn't have the tools I felt i needed to get actually

    • Setting aside the "because I can" and "because it's Linux" arguments, what is the benefit of running YDL instead of OS X on one's Mac?

      To be like Linus. [slashdot.org] :)

      Asuming they can scrape up the money, how many crazed Linus fanboys do you think will try?
  • Aren't they supposed to make this stuff generally available, when it's based on GPL'd software? It looks like right now the only way to get access to it is to join their ydl.net program.

    • Re:Availability? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Chirs ( 87576 )
      Technically, under the GPL they only have to make the code available to their customers, not anyone else.

      However, they cannot keep their customers from redistributing the code...

      Chris
    • So where is the torrent for it eh? LOL!!!

      Seriously though, I cannot imagine they pulled this joke off without massivly reverse enginering the firmware on the I-pod !! And that will attract Job's Evil Eye..

  • Uh, yeah, sure... (Score:2, Informative)

    by digitalamish ( 449285 )
    In a nutshell they turned an iPod into an external hard drive. Then the Macs will treat it as such and boot to it. Basically they turned a $200+ device* into a $29 USB key.

    *unless you get a free one!
    • *unless you get a free one!

      You can get a free iPod ? Really ?? Where???

    • Re:Uh, yeah, sure... (Score:2, Informative)

      by hackstraw ( 262471 ) *
      *unless you get a free one!

      Thats easy. Just click on my foe list. about 90% of them are willing to give you a free iPod after they get one first and you pay money (their version of free, not mine) and register for a bunch of spam and other marketing ploys (again, their version of free not mine), and then you are the low man in the pyramid and you have to then sucker others to be the new low people.

      Yes, people, if you have a free anything in your sig that is not free, I will foe you and filter you just
      • Yeah, I'm defending a cheezy scheme, but misinformation is stupid so here goes...

        willing to give you a free iPod after they get one first
        No one who's giving you a referral link is promising you an ipod. Rather, they are giving a link to a website that will give you an ipod in exchange for doing the legwork to do some "viral marketing" for them. Also, there is no requirement for me to get my free ipod before you get yours. You get five referrals, you get the ipod. What your referrer does means nothi
      • see below
    • Basically they turned a $200+ device* into a $29 USB key.

      You don't want to boot from a USB key, that would be incredibly slow. You also don't want to swap to it as flash memory has a much lower ceiling of re-writes. Not that you'd necessarily want to boot from an iPod, as those drives are slow, just not as slow as a flash key.

      Given that a $200 iPod is 4GB, I don't know of any $29 USB keys that can store 4GB.

      There really isn't a standard for booting from a USB key either. First, there is the issue of
      • You're right that it is a ridiculous comparison for iPod vs USB key. However, I don't think speed would be a major issue (remember booting from floppies was routine back in the day) And perhaps YDLinux boots fast enough to make up for slow drive speed on iPods. Also, while usb booting is not standardized for PCs, there would be a standard for Apple hardware. There are a lot of interesting issues about using external drives, if only they had been in original article! Damn you Slashdot!
    • Hey! There really are free iPods! I got my iPod Mini absolutely free with no strings attached!
      All I had to do was attend a free Verizon seminar on VOIP and be lucky enough to win the door prize.
      Easy!

    • Re:Uh, yeah, sure... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by CODiNE ( 27417 )
      Why is this rated so high? Are you unaware that all iPods are ALREADY external hard drives as well as portable music players? The 1st Gen iPod had this as do all the rest. I know the Anti-Apple people needed a post to mod higher, but this one is simply wrong. Mac users have booted their systems from iPods since day one. This is the first LINUX system built in such a way that the Mac firmware will recognize it and boot off it. No configuration needed, no BIOS to play with, no bootloader tricks. Just pl
  • About time! I was promised this would be in YDL 4.0 but it didn't make the cut for the shipping CD. Now I can finally REALLY give Linux a try on this iBook, not just some LiveCD. While I am stuck in OS X for some critical apps, with MOL I just might be able to use this full time. Couldn't justify wiping out a production machine that I use everyday just to find out though. Will have to wait a week or so for the new YDL to be freely downloaded, then time's time to whip out the firewire drive. :-D Good s
    • Why?

      Specifically, why'd you pay so much for an iBook, just to get rid of the one thing that makes it valuable: the OS?

      Why in the hell would you run Linux instead of OSX?

      To me, that sounds like somebody who buys a Ferrari, then swaps out the engine for a Chevy 4 cylinder. It makes no sense, whatsoever.
      • What, exactly, makes OSX the "Ferrari engine" in your analogy, other than Apple's excellent marketing department?
      • Simple answer... Linux is faster. I've heard that it can get better battery life than OS X also. Don't get me wrong I love OS X, it's simply not the end all of OS's. You're also forgetting that I can still run OS X inside of Linux at native speed. As for why I bought it in the first place, I think it's entirely unfair of you to imply that the only value in a Mac is it's OS. As for price, when I got my iBook it was a better value than comparably priced PC laptops so again you're being unfair to Apple t

  • Linus says (Score:3, Funny)

    by jaymzter ( 452402 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @04:55PM (#11893874) Homepage
    Crap! Wouldn't you know it, right after I just installed Yellow Dog too >:(

  • Don't host from an ipod (Score:3, Funny)

    by acomj ( 20611 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @04:57PM (#11893890) Homepage
    There is a lesson here.. The quick slashdotting apears to indicate raid works better than an ipod for running your server.

  • Maybe a highly portable Mac (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MBraynard ( 653724 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @05:01PM (#11893943) Journal
    My flatmates powerbook blew out the harddrive. In order to do it on the cheap and still make the machine useful, he is running OSX from his Ipod.
    • Why doesn't he sell the iPod, and with the money get a new laptop harddrive and iPod shuffle.

      Sounds like a win-win to me. Sure the shuffle might not be as good as the regular iPod, but if he overheats his iPod he's gonna be out a harddrive and an iPod.
      • Dude, I don't even understand why he owns a Mac at all. Mind you, this is sitting right next to his new G5 thingy (whatever it is - it's like the whole computer is in the flat screen monitor and it's a pretty white color.)
  • I've been able to do this for the last year or so with Mac OS X - i.e. clone my entire OS and work environment, so I could move it between my G4 tower at work, and laptop at home. Nice to see linux finally get this ability too.

    And for the work I do, I don't see a huge performance hit running off the firewire chain, though I probably would off USB ...

  • So it's commercial. Deal with it. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @05:21PM (#11894172)
    Sheesh, guys, just because it's a commercial announcement doesn't mean it's not "stuff that matters". This might be useful - or at least interesting - to some of the folks here that actually work for a living.

    Personally I'd rather see more of this on Slashdot and less of the "New Star Wars III fanfict trailer released!".

  • not the only firewire trick with the firmware (Score:5, Informative)

    by moosesocks ( 264553 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @05:33PM (#11894302) Homepage
    the firmware loaded onto macs nowindays is quite impressive in that it can do all sorts of things with firewire. booting off of a firewire device is one of the more tame 'tricks' it can do.

    OpenFirmware can also make your mac pretend that it's a firewire hard drive. Connect the mac to another machine (another mac or a PC that can read HFS+ partitions), and boot up the machine while holding down the T key. Before the OS loads, the computer enters target disk mode, and every hard drive attached to that computer appears as a normal firewire device to the other computer.

    I don't see why this wouldn't work with an ext3 or ReiserFS partition... it's a VERY useful trick for restoring a trashed system (which in all honsety rarely happens in Mac OS, but is rather common on Windows and Linux if you're compiling your own kernels and such)

  • this will kill iPods (Score:3, Informative)

    by a1291762 ( 155874 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @05:46PM (#11894430) Homepage
    Their hard drives aren't designed for booting OSes from. Too much seeking will fry them.
    • Their hard drives aren't designed for booting OSes from. Too much seeking will fry them.

      This sounds right for older iPods, but I'm not so sure this applies to the latest batch. There have been specs passed around via forum threads [ipodhacks.com] that claim that the Toshiba drive used in iPods has a 20,000 hour MTBF (mean time between failure) -- which is a far cry from the 300,000+ MTBF for desktop drives. However newer (Gen 4) iPods use the Toshiba MK4004GA, which has a 300,000 hour MTBF [google.ca], just as good as a lapto

  • When Will the "Make it Boot Linux" Madness Stop? (Score:5, Funny)

    by windowpain ( 211052 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @06:09PM (#11894662) Journal
    I left a ham sandwich on my desk today and forgot about it. When I got back three geeks were working to make it boot Linux.

  • External Firewire Drives Too! (Score:3, Informative)

    by ryan_fung ( 610676 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2005 @10:27PM (#11896367)
    From TFA:
    "Terra Soft has created a hybrid Yellow Dog Linux v4.0.1 #1 Install CD that incorporates the changes required to install to an iPod or FireWire drive from the graphical installer. This hybrid is immediately available through YDL.net Enhanced accounts at www.ydl.net."

    Now I can play around with Linux on PPC without touching my current setup! Great!

    Now the problem becomes: how long before the new ISOs become available to the public?

  • Bad idea... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by andymullins ( 771850 ) on Thursday March 10, 2005 @02:14AM (#11897501) Homepage
    Does anyone else think this is a bad idea? iPods are intended for short bursts of hard drive activity, and will likely overheat if used for anything more strenuous. Do this at your own risk!

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