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"Enemies of Linux" Trying to Undermine OS? 545

Posted by CmdrTaco from the seems-a-little-conspiratorial dept.
Pinawella writes "It's reported on VNUnet that 'Enemies of Linux' are trying to undermine the OS with a campaign of disinformation. It's based on an interview with an exec from the Open Source Development Labs, but who are these enemies?"
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"Enemies of Linux" Trying to Undermine OS? More

"Enemies of Linux" Trying to Undermine OS?

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  • First post (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jb.hl.com ( 782137 ) <joe@joe-baldwERDOSin.net minus math_god> on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:03PM (#11879711) Homepage Journal
    Fairly obviously, the enemies of Linux are as follows:

    • Microsoft
    • SCO


    Jesus fucking christ people, it isn't that hard :)

    • Re:First post (Score:3, Insightful)

      by superpulpsicle ( 533373 )
      I am not really sure Sun, HP and IBM are really neutral with Linux. I'd say, they are just being "friends" since they have something to gain from the community.

      • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:14PM (#11879871)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Or even "friends with benefits," seeing how those companies are in bed with Linux to some extent or another. That chubby penguin gets around. ;)

      • Re:First post (Score:3, Interesting)

        by DrXym ( 126579 )
        IBM is a friend at the moment, Sun definitely isn't and HP is just so punch drunk it has no idea what's going on.

        Yes Sun do open source stuff but you just have to look at the way they're pitching themselves nowadays against Linux - head on. The whole Solaris 10 for free thing is to persuade people to stick with Sun even if in reality a "free" Solaris is anything but when you slap on support costs.

    • Re:First post (Score:5, Funny)

      by the_mighty_$ ( 726261 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:14PM (#11879873)

      Who are the enemies

      Just to the right of where the article says ,"So-called "enemies of Linux" are conducting a systematic campaign of disinformation which aims to undermine the enterprise credibility of the open source operating system", I see an add for MS's Get the Facts campaign. Hmmmm.

    • SCO insn't an "enemy", it's the plucky comic relief...

    • Re:First post (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You forgot enemy 3.

      Red Hat.

      Between forking their own distro and using a package manager that doesn't work and play well with others, they've gone a long way to undermine the OS.

      Oh, and enemy 4.

      Richard Stallman

      Besides running around telling everybody who will or will not listen that we all need to call it "Guh-Noo Linux" from now on and forever, the author and cheerleader-in-chief of the GPL is such a cantankerous cuss that it's hard not to reflexively be against anything which he's for.

      Then there's en

    • Re:First post (Score:2, Insightful)

      by chris_mahan ( 256577 )
      Microsoft, IBM, Apple, Sun, and every other software company out there, including Red Hat.

      Linux is free, and freely available.

      The above-mentioned companies and those like them want to charge you money.

      Sun is especially sore, but at least they see their demise in the rearview mirror.

      IBM, because Linux commoditizes their hardware.

      Microsoft, because they can't patent a whole bunch of stuff, and that linux-based desktop distros are going to kick their earnings into the ground and they know it.

      Apple becaus

      • Re:First post (Score:3, Informative)

        by MadMorf ( 118601 )
        The corporate network is going to disappear, because defense is at the servers and a the machines. Many companies already mix the lan and internet, and that's the way to go.

        I don't agree with this.

        Any "solution" which places sensitive corporate data on hardware which is not under complete control, physical and logical, of the corporation, is just asking for IP theft (read: Industrial Espionage), and in my opinion, the CIO/IT Management should be dissmissed on the grounds of malfeasance.

  • The enemy of my friend (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:03PM (#11879713)
    The enemy of my friend is my enemy's friend, or my friend's enemies are my friend's friends... Um, is this gonna be on the test?

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:04PM (#11879732)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:um sure. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Daniel Dvorkin ( 106857 ) * on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:12PM (#11879839) Homepage Journal
      Did they really expect for linux to be a viable product and not get criticized by the people whos market they are taking?

      "Criticized" is one thing; "slandered" is another. Linux is far from perfect, and all but the most rabid zealots acknowledge this; there are many valid criticisms to be made, and in some cases the validity of these criticisms is sufficient to point users direction of Windows or one of the proprietary flavors of Unix.

      BUT ... If you insist on multiplying a single security vulnerability by the number of available distros, or tell people that they'll have to recompile their kernel every time they add a patch, or claim that software to do X, Y, or Z isn't available for Linux when in fact it is, or claim that open source development is inherently insecure, or that running proprietary software on a GPL'd OS will get you sued by the FSF, or make any of the other kinds of propganda attacks we've all seen on Linux (and F/OSS generally) from Microsoft and its lackeys ... then you have indeed gone beyond "competitor" to "enemy."
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • "Criticized" is one thing; "slandered" is another.

        Naturally. Criticism is protected speech; slander is not.

        Do you believe that the information being distributed about Linux by its competitors rises to the level of slander? If so, when do you think there will be a lawsuit filed regarding it?

        • Re:um sure. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Daniel Dvorkin ( 106857 ) * on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:46PM (#11880247) Homepage Journal
          Well, I'm not sure who would have standing to sue in this case. Linus Torvalds? Red Hat? The FSF?

          In any case, I wasn't trying to make a legalistic distinction. I don't know, and don't especially care, if the FUD Microsoft et al. are throwing at Linux rises to the legal definition of slander or not. (I also don't believe that corporations or organizations should be able to sue for slander at all, but that's a whole 'nother argument.) But it is definitely slanderous, rather than critical, in tone and content: that is, it's "words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another" rather than real analysis of the relative merits and flaws of Linux as compared to other OSs.

  • Axis of evil (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:05PM (#11879743)
    So who are these mysterious enemies of Linux?

    Is it Mr. White of 42 Evergreen Terrace?

    Perhaps the little old lady who lives across the road?

    Or, almost inconceivably, the vicar's wife, Mrs. Candor?

    Or, just perhaps, is this a thinly veiled attack against Microsoft?

    Could it just be more FUD?

  • Just because they want to kill you (Score:5, Funny)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:05PM (#11879749) Homepage Journal
    doesn't make them enemies.

    Just very very very hostile.

  • enemies (Score:4, Funny)

    by SteakandcheeseUm ( 191173 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:06PM (#11879752) Homepage
    Don't make your enemies happy.
    Make up with your lover,
    who's greedy to be back
    in your good graces.
    Daughter,
    because you've taken anger to extremes,
    you won't amount
    to a hill of beans.

    -Hla Stavhana

    Let us not make a hill of beans for our enemies!

  • And the point is... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Eric Damron ( 553630 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:06PM (#11879753)
    "Pinawella writes "It's reported on VNUnet that 'Enemies of Linux' are trying to undermine the OS with a campaign of disinformation."

    Well that's a new tactic...

  • Who are these enemies? (Score:5, Funny)

    by selectspec ( 74651 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:06PM (#11879755)
    Who are these enemies?

    Why the BSD people of course. Everyone knows the BSD triangle of NetBSD, FreeBSD and OpenBSD are out to get Linux. BSD stands for BKill SDamn DPenguin. What other free OS is there that could feel threatened?

  • The biggest enemy is ourself. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by irc.goatse.cx troll ( 593289 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:06PM (#11879765) Journal
    If we still cant have consistant pasting between apps, I'd say we're our own biggest enemy. I've used linux since the 2.0 kernel days and even I still find it impossible to paste between different apps, especially with a different toolkit. Throw in an odd app like Mozilla and forget about it, you'll end up replacing your own clipboard with what you're trying to paste over, or pasting 3 lines into the url bar which happily takes newlines.
    Why can't we just unite like all the good apps on windows, mac os, qnx, amiga.. and everything else with a real solid dev team?
    • Highlight and middle-click. Personally I've never had a problem, but I do remeber accidentally stumbling on to that. Thats one handy little feature.
    • > Why can't we just unite like all the good apps on windows, mac os, qnx, amiga.. and everything else with a real solid dev team?

      It's a shame that things have gotten so crummy lately... it didn't used to be this way. When I started using
      Linux, everything was consistant; highlight, middle-click. It ALL worked that way, and it was good. Some
      people clamoured for a keystroke-based copy, and they made sound arguments, but it was really a matter of
      preference, and we had something that worked and was consis
      • Copy and paste is such a fundamental element that it would be self-defeating not to accommodate the most accepted methods. Middle-click is a linux-ism that has unfortunately stuck, like several others that I find annoying. There's nothing magical about CTRL-C/CTRL-V, but like it or not, it is what the vast majority of computer users are accustomed to seeing. This is one area where adherence to a standard would most likely result in a positive outcome.
      • Just out of interest (I hardly ever use Linux), what if you wish to paste some text over a region of already selected text? Oops, the selected text is autocopied.

        This always seemed like a pretty stupid way of doing things to me. OK, autocopying is fair enough for some apps where text tends to scroll, making manual copying annoying (IRC clients, etc), but in the main I prefer the Windows way of doing it.

        And what's the the Linux assumption that your mouse will have a third button? There're still plenty o
        • > This always seemed like a pretty stupid way of doing things to me

          Fine. No problem. You don't want to relearn how to do a basic GUI operation that you've been doing the same way for years.
          Neither do I. That's what this is about.

    • Re:The biggest enemy is ourself. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Coryoth ( 254751 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:27PM (#11880031) Homepage Journal
      Why can't we just unite like all the good apps on windows, mac os, qnx, amiga.. and everything else with a real solid dev team?

      Linux is Free software, and most of the stuff running on it is usually also Free software. That has costs, and one of those costs is that people will write whatever they feel like writing. You won't be able to force people to conform. You can have things like Freedesktop.org [freedesktop.org] to lay out some suggested standards, but no one is compelled to follow them. The only way to enforce consistency is to dictate that there is only one way to do things, and the only realistic way to do that is to have a single group in sole control of all the core libraries, which means they need to locked down to prevent forking parallel development, etc. If that's what you want, great. It's out there and available right now: Apple is offering it with MacOS X, Microsoft is offering it with Windows. If you want Free software with open source, you have to be willing to take the bad with the good.

      Jedidiah.
    • What are you talking about? Copy and paste, and middle click always work. The only time it doesn is if you close the app you are copying from. BIG DEAL.

    • Re:The biggest enemy is ourself. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by linguae ( 763922 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:34PM (#11880101)

      Yeah. Most users would have a hard time with Linux if they have to find out about the differences between GNOME, GTK, KDE/Qt, Motif, (insert random toolkit here) applications, all with their own rules of usability, standards, and copy/paste. Heck, there are different methods for copy-paste that are inconsistent (some X apps use the middle button, others use a Windows/Macintosh sytle method).

      Why hasn't somebody already came up with the "Unified Clipboard," which supports all of the common X toolkits (or better yet, why do the GNOME/KDE/whomever developers have to design their own clipboards rather than use what X provides?)? Is it really that difficult? Even though I'm a supporter of different choices (I feel it is great that there is a choice between GNOME, KDE, and many other environments), I also feel that there should be compatibility between these different toolkits.

      Remember, most users don't (and shouldn't have to) care about the differences between KDE, GNOME, GTK, and the rest. They want to take advantage of a variety of applications, many times from a variety of toolkits. They want to copy some text from their web browser and paste it into a word processor without fuss, and they want copy-paste to work everywhere in the exact same way.

      GNOME and KDE's mission is to reach out to the desktop users, right? Some competition with each other is a good thing, but the two different toolkits should have some compatibility with each other, especially in the realm of cut/paste.

      • Yeah. Most users would have a hard time with Linux if they have to find out about the differences between GNOME, GTK, KDE/Qt, Motif, (insert random toolkit here) applications, all with their own rules of usability, standards, and copy/paste.

        But you see copy and paste doesn't work under Windows or MacOS X if you hold it to the same standards. On MacOS X if you use an X app then copy and paste doesn't perfectly integrate with the rest of your MacOS X apps. Same for Windows - try using Ctrl-C Ctrl-V on Win
    • Well, I've been using Linux since the 1.2 days, so I beat you there. The only problem I've had with cut and paste under Linux is stupid Java programs that want to act like Windows programs (or is it the JVM?). In everything else, I select text and then middle-click to paste. What is so inconsistant about that? It works everywhere for me.
    • Repeat after me:

      Press and hold the left mouse button.
      While still holding drag your cursor over the text you want to copy.
      Click your cursor at the location in the app you want to paste to.

      Works on almost every app except some non native linux apps.

      I have like 400 users who do manage to copy/paste in linux so i figure youre an odd user. That said, why the Bush Junior should Gnu/Linux take the blame for some apps that dont handle copy and paste? Its the damn developers of said applications you should be hau
    • If we still cant have consistant pasting between apps...
      I don't understand this. I've been hearing this complaint over and over I don't know how many times, but I've been using Linux exclusively for at least two years now, and I have never, ever, had problems copying and pasting.

      Just select the text, and middle-click where you want it. I have yet to find a single combination of programs where this doesn't work.

  • Enimies of Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eericson ( 103272 ) <harlequin@@@earthlink...net> on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:06PM (#11879770) Homepage
    Er, so when did Linux stop being an OS and start being a cult-like religion?

    It's a f-ing operating system for god(s) sake people. It doesn't have enimies, it has competitors.

    • Re:Enimies of Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Daniel Dvorkin ( 106857 ) * on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:17PM (#11879904) Homepage Journal
      The fanaticism comes from the other side. If Microsoft were capable of seeing other OSs as competition rather than The Enemy, we'd have no problem. "Enemies of Linux" is a perfectly reasonable description for people who think the way Bill&Co. do.

      As a Mac guy, I've seen this before. Typical exchange:

      "I'm sick of all the viruses and crashes I get on my Windows box!"

      "Well, you could try a Mac ..."

      "OMG LOL M4XZ I5 T3H 5VX0RZ!"

      "Um, well, it's a pretty good machine, actually, and it doesn't have any viruses ..."

      "I'M SO SICK OF ALL YOU MAC FANATICS!"

      (etc.)

      So if Linux people are starting to get a little defensive, that's pretty much why, I think.
    • Er, so when did Linux stop being an OS and start being a cult-like religion?

      I'd say around 1996. Either you've been in outerspace for the past 10 years, just heard of linux recently, or this is your first time logging into slashdot.

    • Re:Enimies of Linux (Score:3, Insightful)

      by gstoddart ( 321705 )
      Er, so when did Linux stop being an OS and start being a cult-like religion?

      Somewhere in the 0.99 days as I recall.

      It's a f-ing operating system for god(s) sake people. It doesn't have enimies, it has competitors.

      Well, maybe it's taking a page out of the Scientologists playbook then. Kidding aside, I thought it was a really wierdly-worded sentiment as well.

    • Between 1992 and 1994.

      Just so you know in the future.

  • Natural enemies include... (Score:5, Funny)

    by ChimChim ( 54048 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:07PM (#11879779) Homepage
    Natural enemies of the penguin include seals, Killer whales, and, in the case of young chicks and eggs, several species of seabirds. Healthy adult penguins have no predators on land, so they have no natural fear of humans. While they don't like to be approached directly, these naturally curious birds will sometimes come quite close to a quiet observer to get a better look.

    http://www.antarcticconnection.com/antarctic/wildl ife/penguins/index.shtml [antarcticconnection.com]

    Sheesh slashdot editors, at least do a simple google search first!

  • hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Turn-X Alphonse ( 789240 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:08PM (#11879784) Journal
    Linux used to be like that little kid who mowed peoples lawn for next to nothing.. now the kid decided to start it's own business and has to deal with politics.

    It's no real surprize that people want to get rid of it. If not for Linux we'd have a choice of two OS (Windows or OSX) and not many people want to buy a mac just for the OS.. Get rid of Linux and Microsoft's market share once again becomes uncontested, keep it around and it'll slowly dwindle untill Linux and Windows are running evenly.
    • Oh really? What about:

      Solaris
      AIX
      FreeBSD
      OpenBSD
      NetBSD
      HPUX
      Tr u64

      I am sure there's more, but there's lot's of OTHER things then the desktop. The desktop is just hte most visible one out there.

  • Its not enimity (Score:2, Informative)

    by Virtual Karma ( 862416 )
    Its not enimity. Its just what an average Joe wants. EASE OF USE. I want to have my OS up and running within minutes. Read this article from the slashdot hall of fame:

    http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/02/11/13/21272 27.shtml?tid=109&tid=4 [slashdot.org]

    • Re:Its not enimity (Score:4, Interesting)

      by darilon ( 752912 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:32PM (#11880081)
      As an exercise for my grade 11 students, I have them install a number of operating systems. Many flavors of Windows and Linux. Their assessment as to ease of installation and configuration? Linux is easier. Fewer reboots, you get everything in logical order, you can set up your network configuration while installing and all the hardware is automatically identified and configured (yes, I'm sure there are a few exceptions to this, but we've yet to come across them in our testing).

      I had a look at the parent post's link and noted that it was from 2002 and even still there were a number of positive comments regarding Linux.

      They key point from my perspective is this: nobody is telling you that you have to run Linux. All that is being said is that it's there if you want to try it and use it, and in a great number of cases, it's available for free. Nope, the gaming and some commercial apps aren't all there, but for the vast majority of computer use it's just fine.

      I run dual boots on pretty all my computers at home except my firewall/gateway, which runs linux exclusively. I game more on my windows boots, and I work more on my Linux boots. Windows lacks the combined capabilities of bash, perl and gnu tools (unless you want to run cygwin). I don't mind spending the time to learn how to use the gimp. Like many *nix tools, it's great once you've spent the time to learn how to use it. Remember, however, that nobodies telling you that you HAVE to use linux. It's just an option being provided by your friendly OSS community.
      • Windows died on his computer, Linux was the only thing that worked as-is and the only person to date who's had a clue how to fix it is the one that was being mercilessly ribbed for geekiness for running linux prior to all this happening. No way he's gonna help reinstall windows.

        Moral of the story: be kind to geeks, for they have root access.
      • Others' posts not withstanding, I don't care much about how easy or hard it is to install an operating system, as long as it's easy enough. Neither Windows nor Linux is easy enough.

        But installing an operating system is something that most people will never do in their lives. It's something that even the most hard-core computer hobbyist might do once every year or two. It's just not important.

        What's important is the ability to accomplish tasks with a computer. Have your students take three computers out of
    • That article's comments has more references to "M$" than any I've ever seen.

  • Give more anti-Linux FUD, it will only backfire. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    According to the secret Microsoft document from several years ago:

    Messages that criticize OSS, Linux, & the GPL are NOT effective. Messaging that discusses possible Linux patent violations, pings the OSS development process for lacking accountability, attempts to call out the 'viral' aspect of the GPL, and the like are only marginally effective in driving unfavorable opinions around OSS, Linux, and the GPL, and in some cases BACKFIRE.

    http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween7. p hp

  • how to count (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gregmac ( 629064 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:10PM (#11879809) Homepage
    "The true installed base of Linux is being undercounted if all we do is look at the server shipments alone. We need to look at what companies actually do with the servers after they have purchased them."


    To support these assertions, Pratt cited a recent poll of OSDL members which asked how many had purchased servers with an OS pre-loaded and then removed and replaced it with Linux. Virtually all of them claimed to have taken this action.

    This is a good point, but asking OSDL members this question is somewhat akin to doing a survey of how many people run IIS among ASP developers.

    I've only ever purchased one server with linux preloaded (from Dell). Every other linux system I've ever owned has come blank, except one workstation that had a copy of Windows preloaded.

    Officially, I have 1 linux system, but in reality, I have probably 15 active systems.

  • Unnamed Vendors? (Score:5, Funny)

    by bigtallmofo ( 695287 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:10PM (#11879814)
    Nelson Pratt, marketing director of the pro-Linux organisation, which boasts Linus Torvalds among its top brass, said that unnamed vendors are trying to scare firms with a campaign claiming that Linux is inadequately supported for enterprise use.

    Did anyone else picture Nelson Pratt coughing "MICROSOFT!" right after saying "unnamed vendor"?

  • who are these enemies? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:10PM (#11879818) Homepage Journal
    Well, the penguin eaters [birdworld.co.uk] for one:

    Do Penguins taste nice?

    It may sound like a strange question but people do actually eat penguins. In Antarctica there are research stations where scientists live for months or even years so for them having a penguin for dinner is much like us having a Sunday roast. From their experiences we have been told that they taste like duck and that they also have a high oil content, due to all the fish that they eat. Guano miners also eat penguins whilst they are working near to Humboldt colonies; this however is bad news, as the Humboldt penguin is now a critically endangered species. Guano is old piles of penguin poo and it is mined for as it makes a good fertiliser, this practice is also detrimental to the wild Humboldt penguin population.

    Clearly, these people are trying to undermine Linux by spreading the word that penguin meat is tasty and nutritious.

    "OMG they're eating Tux. You Bastards!"

    • When I was in Japan, I visited the island of Miyajima. There was an aquarium where I was able to pet a penguin. I considered it one of my most unique experiences.

      Thanks to your post, I will now scratch off "Pet a penguin" and add "Eat a penguin."

  • They forget (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Skiron ( 735617 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:12PM (#11879840)
    They can do/say all they wish about Linux. What they forget is 'Linux' isn't a tangible entity. It's a bit like shadow boxing.

    Nobody owns it (apart from !SCO), anybody can release their/a version of it, and more important, all the coders and developers don't really give a shit who uses it.

    People that USE it though know the truth, and my Financial Manager likes it too, even though he doesn't really know what it is. He knows what £0:00 is, though. :)
  • An OS backed by a quasi-political philosophy that gains popularity would invariably spin off a counter philosophy. (Yin and Yang)

    The question is whether or not this is the usual suspects (Microsoft) or some counter grassroots organization (Beos, BSD).

    So long as it stays on the up and up, a little competition and criticism is a good thing. (IE The complaints of FireFox not responding quickly to recent security problems. That's a valid concern)
  • people who have bought the new EU patents laws of course! Say no to EU patens and vote with you wallet, buy Linux today.
  • Why do I need Linux when I have the slickest nix in the world from Apple? Not a troll, I'm serious. I dont understand why anyone would pick Linux over OS X besides the fact it's free.

    I'm getting ready to download a PPC distro to put on a G3 Server I picked up on ebay for 20 bucks, so I'm not anti-linux, (though I have to admit it's mostly becuase OS 9 is such a loser)....I just dont know why one would make that choice, and I am open to hearing from linux folk as to why they would run Linux on Apple's mode

    • A lot of people use Linux because it's open source. While the kernel of OS X is open source, the rest of the OS and the majority of the Apple-brand apps are closed source. That deters a lot a people who would rather use something that "mankind" is developing to further itself, rather than just another purty OS.

      Kinda like the difference between living in a dictatorship where everyone is well fed and gets all sorts of cool free stuff, or barely scraping by in a full democracy. Some people value the freed

    • Re:the biggest enemy of linux is OS X (Score:5, Interesting)

      by slim ( 1652 ) <{john} {at} {hartnup.net}> on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @04:00PM (#11881129) Homepage
      I dont understand why anyone would pick Linux over OS X besides the fact it's free.

      Both gratis and libre, and both of those are excellent reasons for me.

      I'm curious about OSX, and I'd like to give it a go, but:

      • The cost of admission is high. Even the Mac Mini is a lot of money to pay just for an experiment. I'm reluctant to pay £100 for an old mac because it would be an unfair test to try out the OS on slow hardware
      • An environment so completely controlled by a single coroporation, frankly scares me. With Windows at least one can shop around for hardware. With Linux (and other Free OSs) you can shop around for the lot.


      So Darwin is Open Source: big deal. The rest of MacOS X is the ultimate in closed software.
  • I was going to say something like, "They hate us for our freedom," but it's actually not ridiculous here. Instead, I'll go with, "Microsoft will digest you with its system of mighty organs."

  • A press release, not a story. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ianscot ( 591483 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:15PM (#11879889)

    Heck, we're quoting Nelson Pratt -- the "marketing director of the pro-Linux organisation" -- at enormous length. Add a straw man to your press release -- poof! It's a news item!

    This sort of thing, from Taco no less, doesn't help Linux's credibility much.

  • "The true installed base of Linux is being undercounted if all we do is look at the server shipments alone. We need to look at what companies actually do with the servers after they have purchased them." To support these assertions, Pratt cited a recent poll of OSDL members which asked how many had purchased servers with an OS pre-loaded and then removed and replaced it with Linux. Virtually all of them claimed to have taken this action. "However, going the other way was totally different. We asked how ma

  • The myth of "Linux competitors" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ites ( 600337 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:17PM (#11879905) Journal
    There are several companies who make products that Linux threatens directly. Any firm selling, for instance, an operating system, would feel threatened by what is becoming the standard OS much as TCP/IP became the standard networking protocol.

    But to call these "competitors" of Linux is to misunderstand the nature of the threat.

    Linux is not a business, it is not a strategy, it is not a concept.

    Linux represents the brutal and unflinching march of technology towards the zero price point. Linux - and all free & open-source software - exists because all the barriers to its existence have been gradually razed.

    The first rule of competition is that all players must be playing the same game. How can anyone seriously still think that Linux and (e.g.) Microsoft are playing the same game?

    The game is not over - there is no game, and there never was.
    • Joe Sixpacks. Because they realise just enough to know that both Windows and Linux are OSes, and just know that Linux is free, but don't care to figure out how that would make business sense for a business.
  • A search for Linux [google.com] on Google reveals ads [microsoft.com] from Microsoft. Could this be a sign of what the article talks about?

    Disclaimer: The ad is in Danish, and it may thus be only the Danish branch of MS buying these adwords. It's possible that similar ads won't show up if the same search is done from other countries.

    P.S.: If the ads show up, feel free to click them. Wouldn't want Google to miss out on a bit of revenue, would you? :)
  • This is one of the most entertaining sites: Get the Facts [microsoft.com].

    I like to watch the videos of brainwashed CEO's talking about how they would never trust their business to "a bunch of freeware".

  • The subject of this story sounds more like propaganda than any article I've seen in a long time...
    Not saying it isn't true, but the wording is quite funny.

  • FOSS doesn't want to compete (Score:5, Insightful)

    by The Bungi ( 221687 ) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:20PM (#11879955) Homepage
    It just wants to whine, cry foul and point the finger at the big bully "ooohhh, look, OMFG! how dare they attack us, we're so goood!!"

    Now that IBM, RHN and Novell are in the ring, Microsoft, Oracle, CA and everyone else are starting to see Linux as a competitor. The problem is that most people in FOSS are not used to competition, they prefer enemies. Enemies are easier to vilify and ridicule. Competitors who are eating your lunch are not. This whole "we are holier than thou and you are so evil" thing is not going to work out there in the real world. Linux needs to compete, not be surrounded by fanboys who can pick their noses and chuckle when they write "Microshaft" and "Windoze".

    Slashdot has been the main front in this whining battle for the past few years. It's gone mainstream now, of sorts, and people are starting to notice the ridiculous "OMFG WINDOZE IS TEH SUXX" headlines that adorn the front page day in and day out, complete with borg icon. And don't complain about Microsoft saying this or the other about Linux when most of you spend your waking hours claiming that Windows cannot be secured or otherwise used as a computing platform, using anecdotal data points to build feel-good statistics that only you believe.

    Grow up and compete. The "some dude said something bad about Linux"-style whines like this article are starting to sound more and more like Suckdot [suck.com].

  • Frankly it's true. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:22PM (#11879978)
    Enterprise customers have an entirely different set of requirements than home users or even small/medium business users. Enterprise customers want to drop boatloads of money on companies and then expect these companies to do whatever they want, and by whatever, I mean **whatever**.

    I worked for an Enterprise software CRM company and we dealt with customers paying tens of millions of dollars. If there was a bug, any bug, even if it wasn't our bug, we were on the daily conference calls. There was one bug that was clearly a Microsoft SQL Server optimization bug, but I had to work with Microsoft over Christmas just because our customer wanted someone from our side there... **just because**. There was no logical reason for me to be there since it was completely out of our domain, but we still had to be there. This is how enterprise customers behave and frankly, since they are paying millions of dollars, I don't blame them to expect this.

    However, with Linux, even with Red Hat support, there is no such level of support. We ported our apps to Red Hat Advanced Server 3, and the level of support we got from them was good but not enterprise level.

    We ran into an IBM Java Run-Time bug... clearly a bug in the Run-Time, but Red Hat's response was, "Well, IBM has a certain SLA with us when we create a bug for them, and they may or may not get to it." That was it. There was absolutely nothing we could do at that point. They didn't own the IBM Java Run-time, so they passed the buck on responsibility. Which in some respects is understandable, but is completely unacceptable for enterprise customers. Linux is a mix-and-match of a bunch of open-source software and **no one was ultimate accountability** which is something that enterprise customers are paying for and expect.
  • Terrorists?
    Spammers?

    I know: AOLers!
  • The enemies of Linux are those platforms that constantly bombard us with WMDs (weapons of mass distraction).

    If it weren't for those damned DirectX games, we'd be so much more productive!

  • What a stupid question (Score:3, Funny)

    by syntap ( 242090 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:35PM (#11880112)
    And you thought it was Microsoft... the REAL enemies are the people that make AmigaOS, who want to supplant Linux as the go-to OS for anti-Microsoft people.

  • Ahhh the end of innocence (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:36PM (#11880133) Homepage Journal
    Welcome to the real world.. Time to grow up and watch your back.
  • You know... the one that turned out to be pointing to the truth about a man who cheated on his wife and 'misled'?

    Just because someone says something you don't like or that you don't agree with doesn't make it wrong. One shouldn't be afraid to hear the other side.
  • People should have figured out by now that stories with inflammatory headlines generate more readership. This was the case in the old newprint era and it's true in the Internet era.

    Linux does have enemies. Of course Microsoft is one, but they have also been very much helped by Linux and *BSD because these have weakened or destroyed competitors in the server market who were starting to venture towards the desktop. Digital, Sun, HP, IBM, SCO, etc. all lost to Linux. Some of these companies learned that it w
  • Really, it's been Windows & Mac users bashing each other, Sun bashing Microsoft, and so on since the Atari vs. C-64 vs. PC Jr. days. FUD and her wicked stepsister statistics have kept journalists and the likes of Gartner employed for a long time now, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Welcome to the fray, Linux!

  • Enemies of Linux!? Don't make me laugh! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 91degrees ( 207121 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @02:49PM (#11880284) Journal
    The whole "Enemies of Linux" thing comes across as deeply paranoid. It makes it sound as though these organisations are evil forces that want to destroy the heroic land of Linux.

    A better slant would be that software companies who have compete in the same market space as those companies that use linux are using their usual dirty tricks and misinformation to undermine the competition while the competition simultaneously uses similar tricks and lies to undermine them. But it's hardly news is it?

  • As told by Ghandi:

    • Stage #1: they'll ignore you (done)
      Stage #2: they'll laugh at you (done)
      Stage #3: they'll fight you (current stage)
      Stage #4: you'll win (next stage)

    Also known as Stages of Acceptance (learn more [chemistrycoach.com]). For me it's very clear what is happening.

  • Just wait... (Score:5, Funny)

    by The Spoonman ( 634311 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @03:31PM (#11880805) Homepage
    They'll all start posting comments soon. They're regulars here. :)

  • Anti-microsoft FUD (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @03:50PM (#11881023) Homepage
    OK, so fight back. Talking points:
    • Longhorn is late, again.
    • .NET is bloated, confusing, and increases total cost of ownership.
    • Internet Explorer is a collection of security holes waiting to be exploited.
    • With Windows Update, Microsoft can alter your machines and do anything they want. Do you trust them with your corporate information?
    • Microsoft's licensing and DRM schemes become more of a headache with each new release.
    • Microsoft's obstacles to Java add costs for corporate customers.

  • Pratt says... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Progman3K ( 515744 ) on Tuesday March 08, 2005 @05:01PM (#11881888)
    "Look at Oracle and IBM. Oracle is using Linux as the OS for its grid. This shows that there is a solution stack on top of Linux that is not just Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP/Perl, but a mixture of open source and proprietary software. ISVs such as Oracle, CA, SAP and IBM are fleshing out the Linux stack,"

    I agree, it means Linux is becoming a general-purpose tool: home users AND scientists/engineers/hackers (using hackers in the comp-sci sense, not the thug) are now starting to focus on the benefits of an open development model.

    That means that no one is really fascinated by Microsoft anymore. Oh sure, Microsoft can still spend bucks on PR and FUD, but there is no amount of that that will make users forget this other more fascinating thing that Linux is.

    In the end it's a numbers game: Microsoft may have hired spectacular staff, but they can't compete against collected might of THE WORLD, can they? India and China will lead the way, no doubt.

    And besides, Linux (for the most part) exists simply because people enjoy making tools out of computers, it's not about trying to raise revenue for the coming quarter, but (funny enough) it seems to be doing just that!

    If Microsoft wants to matter anymore, they'll roll with it, like they did on the Internet; late.

    MS should open-source some code and actually let the Wine guys run with it; they're the only ones REALLY trying to preserve Windows, by writing a great application suite, to support the Windows user.

    I know MS have been accused of fighting Wine users, but it really is to MS's own detriment; it alienates more users.

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