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Open Source is Not a Career Path 378

codermarc writes ""If you're getting into open source because you see it as a career path, you're doing something wrong." It's not that Linux creator Linus Torvalds thinks open-source programmers should work for peanuts (he doesn't), but rather that they should be properly motivated. Call it software with a soul, if you like. Only the truly passionate need apply."
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Open Source is Not a Career Path

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  • untrue (Score:5, Funny)

    by stryck9 ( 670369 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:23PM (#11558541)
    This is so untrue... Novell now certifies "Linux Experts"
    • by skids ( 119237 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:41PM (#11558662) Homepage
      ...and by extension, business software is only as popular as it is easy to support. If it weren't for the people who don't code, the ones who just run the systems, and who do make some money at it, Open Source would not be as dominant in the server market.

      So while I see his point, you're right -- it's from a narrow persective. Developers like Linus aren't the ones that get approached when the rubber hits the road, maintainers are. He may look at less famous developers than himself and see little chance of them making money off their work (or less chance of them developing something decent because they are expecting to), and he may be right. He's looking at the wrong group of people, though.

    • Re:untrue (Score:5, Funny)

      by TheViciousOverWind ( 649139 ) <martin@siteloom.dk> on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:47PM (#11558698) Homepage
      I know you meant this to be fun, but really - I'm selfemployed and when I'm out at meetings, I meet SO unbelievable many persons who's either the boss in the companies IT department or is Senior Developer of Buzzword Management - all of which got a bazillion certificates on their businesscards, but when you talk with them they know diddly-squat about anything IT-related.

      An example was a meeting I had some days ago (about a website), and we talked about iframes, and each and every time he called it "frameworks" and when we talked about URLs, he insisted on saying UNIQUE RESOURCE LOCATOR (yes, he almost shouted it everytime, hence the caps) - that may not seem too weird if you're english-speaking, but considering we're danish, it was pretty obvious he was hoping for the "wow"-effect.
  • by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:25PM (#11558555) Homepage Journal

    That applies to almost any job if you want to do well. Remember all the faux-geeks that went to school during the dot-com-bomb for the money? Those are the ones now working the help desk in their late 20's/early 30's or doing crap work for a 5 PC shop (assuming they're still working in the geek biz)
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:43PM (#11558672)
      Wow, step off your high horse. There's nothing wrong with working help desk in your late 20's/early 30's...a job is a job. It's better than not having one.

      Typical elitist slashdot attitude.
      • by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:51PM (#11558732) Homepage Journal
        What I meant was that the people that got into it for the money are the ones that are likely the most disappointed with the dot-bom scenario. They went to school to "learn about 'puters" and were the first ones shown the door.

        No passion == A Job
        Passion == Fun
        • by shufler ( 262955 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:15PM (#11558905) Homepage
          I'm not sure this is an accurate depiction of hell desk workers. Most of the late 20s/early 30s desk jockies I have worked with are in it because they are perfectly alright with knowing how to do something, and then explaining it to people who don't (time and time again).

          Obviously they complain a lot, but this is because they love complaining. They secretly wish every day for someone to call up wondering why their computer didn't restart when they turned off the monitor, or for someone to call in because they forgot they had to click the print icon to print.
      • help desks (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jeif1k ( 809151 )
        There is nothing wrong with working help desk in general; it's an important job. But there is something wrong with working help desk in your 30's from your own point of view if you got into the field with visions of making billions instantly with only minimal knowledge of computers. The elitism here is the elitism of the people who chose a career in computers without the right preparation.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:47PM (#11558704)
      Baloney. Most of them are now employed in cellphone sales and saying things like "The Samsung is only $50 with a two-year commitment, sir."

      And what's missing from the analysis is that even though there's no money in *writing* open source, there's plenty to be made in implementing and maintaining open-source based solutions.
      • by grub ( 11606 )
        And what's missing from the analysis is that even though there's no money in *writing* open source, there's plenty to be made in implementing and maintaining open-source based solutions.

        Yep, that hit the nail right on the head.
    • by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:48PM (#11558706) Homepage Journal
      I find your comment completely unempathetic towards your fellow geek. Let me start by asking, why would a persons professions determine who is/isn't a geek?

      Now if someone was, oh I dunno, a bricklayer, but during the late 90's got an MCSE and started doing tech work, then stopped when the market dried up, sure, that's a poser.

      I do what I do because I love it. Never went to school for it. I am desktop support. I'm also a streaming karaoke jockey. But wait, why do I stream karaoke now if i'm desktop support?

      I also have my own consulting company. I built a freeswan VPN for my current customer using mandrake MNF boxes. Am I geek enough yet?

      If someone is working in a screwdriver shop, or has a support job after the dot bomb, good for them, good hustle. Way to be on the ball so long as they love what they are doing.

      There's also all kinds of geeks.

      Gaming Geek
      Electronics Geek
      Phone Geek (Phreak)
      Programming Geek
      Network Hacking Geek

      I can go on and on.

      Your post is a troll dude. Bah, i'm done pointing that out. I bit.
      • by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:53PM (#11558755) Homepage Journal
        See another reply I did. What I meant was getting into it for the money and a hot career backfired on those without the real love for it. I know people working help desk that love the work they do. Those are the geeks. The ones that hate every moment of their waking life are the ones that gambled and lost. Those are the ones I was directing my comment at.
        • Many people think they are trying to be computer geeks; they either are, or are not (most are not).

          Everyone has their own talents. It is an affront to computer geeks when hair stylists or marketeers try to be and don't grok it.

          Sadly, there are so many of them...perhaps we should put them all on a ship across the galaxy; make up some doomsday story, then send them off first on a trajectory that will cause their ship to crashland on a deserted planet far away, without the possibility of return...
      • by Hard_Code ( 49548 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:38PM (#11559029)
        I think you misinterprete the implied causality.

        He wasn't saying that being in tech support makes you not a geek.

        He was saying that all the poseurs that tried to ride the dot-com boom into sea of easy money when they really didn't have any passion deserved to be dumped off the train. I did personally know somebody who had zero interest in computers but was majoring in Comp Sci for the money. I doubt they went very far.
  • THE TRUTH COMES OUT (Score:3, Interesting)

    by museumpeace ( 735109 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:25PM (#11558559) Journal
    AFTER THE QUALITY GOES IN...

    After all, paying people to write software hasn't exactly given us bulletproof and easy to use products...why NOT have people write code because they like to.
    what am I saying? software is the only paychek I ever had!
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Bullet proof software? Many people on the OpenBSD source project are paid to work on OpenBSD full-time. Yeah, paying people to write software doesn't work.
    • Actually, your point matches up quite well with the point of the article. Find the people who love to code and pay them to write the code you need. Don't find the people who want to make money coding, because they will not be the best.

      This is true of any creative endeavour. Musicians who sing / play because they want to get rich are rarely better than those who play because they love music so much they want to dedicate their life to it. A carpenter who loves working with wood is almost certain to prod

  • However (Score:3, Informative)

    by Nine Tenths of The W ( 829559 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:25PM (#11558560)
    I know several people who've got good jobs specifically because they had experience on OSS projects.
    • Re:However (Score:2, Informative)

      by halltk1983 ( 855209 )
      My best friend got his job purely because he started and maintained a very complex website in Perl, in his spare time, in high school. Got the job at 16, 6 yrs ago. He still works there, and now makes good money. Most definately helped his career by picking out the path.
    • Re:However (Score:4, Insightful)

      by The Wannabe King ( 745989 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:51PM (#11558729)
      I think you missed the point. Linus does not deny that open source development can lead you to a good job. He just doesn't want the kind of people who are into open source only for the (future) money, he prefers idealists. Being offered a good job should be a side-effect, not the motivation.
      • by Jonner ( 189691 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:26PM (#11558958)
        I think that Linus is really trying to say that he really agrees more with the Free Software Foundation's GNU Philosophy [fsf.org] more than the Open Source Initiative's [opensource.org], though he continues to use the term "Open Source." This is where some of the confusion comes from.

        I think the OSI has effected great positive change in making business aware of the benefits of Free/Open Source software, but I think they were pretty arrogant and short-sighted to try to 'dump the confrontational attitude that has been associated with "free software"'. The idea that freedom is important for its own sake may be confrontational to a lot of businessmen, but that doesn't make it any less true.

        I think a lot of conflict could be avoided if RMS would admit that business cases are important for Free Software and ESR would admit that freedom of Open Source software is important in its own right.
      • Re:However (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I develop OSS for neither money nor ideals.

        I do it for shits and giggles.

        If I could sell any OSS what I write I probably would, but having writtena good deal of proprietary software for close to a decade, I doubt the value of anything I've written exceeds the cost of the meagre bandwidth it takes to have it.

        Nonethless people keep downloading what I write (and posting feature requests and bug reports and their own little tweaks) and I keep having fun doing it all and so long as there's intrest beyond my o

    • Count me in.

      I think I got the current job because of my involvement with OSS. Funny, though, the OSS stuff I do (some of it was featured on Slashdot) has nothing to do with what I'm doing on a day job.
  • by jnetsurfer ( 637137 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:26PM (#11558563) Homepage Journal
    I don't see open source as an entire career per se, but rather as a sort of means to an end. Developing open source is a great way to augment your career, to get your name "out there", and to give something back to the community. Being an open source developer gets you recognition, and recognition can get you business from people, organizations, or businesses that need closed source software. That's how I see things, anyway. Not a whole career, but a viable part of a career.

    Also remember that some open source developers are// paid and do make a career out of it.
  • by Bloodlent ( 797259 ) <iron_chef_sanji@[ ]oo.com ['yah' in gap]> on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:26PM (#11558566)
    Hey, do you mean the lusty robots?
  • by eno2001 ( 527078 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:27PM (#11558571) Homepage Journal
    The only reason to get into this game is because you like to play. If you are looking to advance in your career or make a lot of money, you have got the completely wrong idea. If that's your goal, go to school and get an MBA and then work on becoming a business person. Otherwise, play, rock, compute!
  • by Tethys_was_taken ( 813654 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:27PM (#11558573) Homepage
    [Site was already beginning to slow down. Text reproduced in case of full /.ing]

    Open Source is Not a Career Path

    "If you're getting into open source because you see it as a career path, you're doing something wrong." It's not that Linux creator Linus Torvalds thinks open-source programmers should work for peanuts (he doesn't), but rather that they should be properly motivated. Call it software with a soul, if you like. Only the truly passionate need apply.

    That's the message Torvalds and several other open-source luminaries have for the next generation of programmers. "A career path is not a motivation," Torvalds said during Tuesday's Open Source Development Lab's enterprise Linux summit. A reluctant visionary, (he blushed a shade of bright red during an intro that mentioned his inclusion in Time Magazine's list of most influential people) Torvalds is nonetheless passionate about his life's work, an open-source operating system that has blossomed into a major force in the technology world.

    The future of open-source software depends upon bright, motivated programmers filled with ideas and initiative rather than programmers promoting their own, or their employer's, self interests. It's a concept that has been embraced by many but is nonetheless counterintuitive to an entire generation of programmers conditioned to view code (rather than the code's problem-solving capabilities) as a competitive advantage.

    Times are changing, and the developer community needs to get with the times, said Brian Behlendorf, who shared Tuesday's OSDL keynote with Torvalds, Mitch Kapor, founder and chair of the Open Source Applications Foundation, lead Linux kernel maintainer Andrew Morton, and OSDL CEO Stuart Cohen. Behlendorf, chief technology officer of CollabNet Inc. and a founder of the Apache open source project, pointed out that the traits that make for a successful open source developer are different from what makes for a successful proprietary developer.

    "In open source, you have to be a better communicator and to be able to defend yourself," Behlendorf said. He added that a thick skin also is a requirement when laying bare one's work for all the world to see and criticize. "There's not a lot of room for prima donnas."
  • by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:28PM (#11558577) Homepage Journal
    When I went to uni there were a lot of people who were taking the IT degree to "learn how to program" so they could "make big bucks". Much the way law students take up law to join a law firm. Well sorry, software development isn't a summer training course. You need to actually feel some passion for the subject. I knew I wanted to be a computer programmer when I was 7 years old. I learnt to program in assembler when I was 9. That's the kind of drive you should have for your work, otherwise go do an MBA and become a manager.
    • otherwise go do an MBA and become a manager

      "otherwise"? How about getting an MBA so you can actually communicate with management in their language? This allows you to work with them to drive the projects which are "right" for the business but don't necessarily fit into the small window of the world provided by an accountant!

      On that theme, I'd declare that "getting an MBA in an attempt to get into management" an equally dumb decision. You should never consider an MBA an immediate path to management nor

      • fair enough. In trying to be flippant I was probably being ignorant.
      • Instead of getting an MBA, I would recommend technical folk learn all the can about business in whatever place they end up in, then start your own company.

        An MBA is a tool explicitly designed to land you square in middle management. I'm not sure I'd advocate anyone shoot for that goal, no matter what they are good at. I do not think an MBA prepares you really to lead, to have vision, or how to leverage technology in any kind of intelligent way.

        Why would you want to learn to communicate with a group of p
    • I knew I wanted to be a computer programmer when I was 7 years old. I learnt to program in assembler when I was 9.

      Just a slightly unrelated note: I too completely wanted to be a programmer when I was a kid. I mastered assembly, C++, etc as a teenager. In university though I ended up developing several other interests, changed major and pretty much lost interest in it as a career. I would never have believed it if you had told me when I was 13, but I don't want to be a programmer anymore.

      I'm just say

      • I have a lot of other interests, some of which could well be a career path (computational biology is a major one) but programming and computer science in general so permeate my soul that I can't imagine my life without it. I suppose one day, if I were to transcend programming, I could move onto something else.
  • by skids ( 119237 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:28PM (#11558583) Homepage
    I think there is plenty of "career path" in Open Source if you approach it as a "service industry." Well, basically I think that software development is dead as an industry, OpenSource or no, except for the "service industry" angle. People who try to make software into a "invention" that pays out long after it has been written are IMO fooling themselves.

    Anyway, there are other good reasons to do open source. My current one is perhaps a little more "real world" than those I have had before:

    USCVprogs [sourceforge.net]

  • No such thing. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dancin_Santa ( 265275 ) <DancinSanta@gmail.com> on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:29PM (#11558585) Journal
    This is like saying that you shouldn't build model trains unless you are motivated to do it. Poppycock.

    Doing anything for pay is a great way to guide your career. Here's the thing: You never know what the next step will lead to. That's really essential.

    I was reading about a guy in Ohio who married a Japanese exchange student. They were dirt poor, he was only, through odd jobs, able to bring home about $100 a month. They lived in his parents' basement and it was really a terrible life.

    So his wife suggested that he and she move to Kyoto, where she is from, and she could have better job prospects and he could work as an English teacher. They moved and actually did fairly well in Japan.

    Then he decided to follow a "career path" and started his own English school. It failed, miserably. They were forced to move further out into the countryside of Japan.

    Out in the country, there was less demand for English teachers, but the wife was able to make enough to survive on.

    The husband was experienced in some carpentry since he worked a little with his father in Ohio building houses and furniture. So he built a house for the family out in the countryside of Japan. Very Western. Next thing you know, his neighbors are asking him to build houses and furniture and to redecorate homes in Western style.

    Well, if he had followed his career path, then he'd be flat broke and living on the streets of Ohio or Kyoto. But because he was flexible, he was able to find a way to make money and support his family.

    There is no such thing as a "career path" except for people with very narrow minds.
    • by KarmaBlackballed ( 222917 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:44PM (#11558682) Homepage Journal
      An old man was fired from his janitorial government job of 30 years when a new hotshot manager discovered he could not read or write.

      Walking home through the city after his last day, he really wanted a smoke, but could not find a place selling cigarettes. So, he took what little money he had and opened a small cigarette stand on that street.

      People bought cigarettes from him. He opened another one. And he opened another one. Finally, he had too much money to keep under his mattress and went to the bank.

      The banker was impressed at all the money he had earned considering he was not literate. The banker says to the old man "imagine where you could have been if you knew how to read and write." The old man replied, "I don't have to imagine, I would have still been a janitor."
    • I'm suprised she didn't divorce him. She probably didn't think she could do better. Maybe divorcees have trouble getting married in Japan (i.e., divorcees are good to have affairs with, but not good enough to marry).

    • "There is no such thing as a "career path" except for people with very narrow minds."

      BS. For every crazy story like you told there are a hundred about people doing fine because they devoted themselves to a career and stuck with it.
  • by SamSeaborn ( 724276 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:30PM (#11558594)
    The thing I've observed is as open source projects get better, there becomes less market to sell software. Like Eclipse 3 is such a good Java tool, it must seriously hurt JBuilder and IntelliJ sales.

    Ironically, the open source developers who developer "for free" in their spare time are, in a way, under-cutting their cousins who are getting paid to develop software for a living.

    Like if a bunch of mechanics openned a garage after work and fixed cars for free, wouldn't that hurt the income of the mechanics who are open for business in their off-shift?

    Just saying -- hopefully the effect will be to force companies to produce better and more innovative commercial software, but I feel sorry for the poor Borland employee who lost his job because his buddy is working on Eclipse after hours.

    Just saying,

    Sam

    • wouldn't that hurt the income of the mechanics who are open for business in their off-shift?

      Yes but the car pool will be safer and more fuel efficient benefitting the society in general more than it hurt the mechanics.

      You point is valid though just too narrowly argued

    • Eclipse didn't just emerge fully formed from some random Open Source developers. IBM paid a lot of people a lot of money to develop Eclipse.
    • Like if a bunch of mechanics openned a garage after work and fixed cars for free, wouldn't that hurt the income of the mechanics who are open for business in their off-shift?

      I don't think your analogy is very good. A better analogy might be a bunch of mechanics that decided to make cars after work and give them away for no other reason than that they enjoyed making cars with better performance than those available from industry. Yes, the car dealers might lose some sales, but some people will prefer t

  • Not really true (Score:3, Insightful)

    by digitalgimpus ( 468277 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:33PM (#11558607) Homepage
    In fact it is a career path

    Involvement with popular open source packages is very impressive. Being able to say to your employer "I added feature _______ to project ________" is one way to put something unique on your resume before you graduate college. It's worth double if the employer knows the product, and tripple if they use that feature.

    IMHO that's important. It is a career path. It's not a career (except for a few lucky souls). There are a few who make a living off of it (Mozilla hackers for MoFo, IBM, SUN, Google, Novell), RedHat, etc. That is a career.

    But to say it's not a career path... that's a boatload of BS. It's been a career path for many individuals.

    Not to mention it's one of the greatest learning experiences. I think I've learned more from open source than any class. Much more.
    • Hi. I work for one of the major Linux vendors. I got good marks at high school, but I never went to uni as I felt I'd learn more and be more successful in the real world.

      I started properly the year I left school, in 1999. Over the couse of six years I've gone from being The Windows Guy at a Unix shop (I got an MCSE out of high school), to a Linux sysadmin working short-length contracts doing everything under the sun, to a relatively well known Linux journalist as the Linux columnist for PC Authority (and t
  • by Coryoth ( 254751 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:34PM (#11558616) Homepage Journal
    Programming open source, releasing your code, is something you should do for your own enjoyment. There have been a number of cases of developers becoming disillusioned because their open source project failed to generate them any money, or got forked off into something else that became more popular. As disconcerting as that can be, it is a natural result of releasing your code under a license that allows such things. If you want control, if you want to be guaranteed money, then you should license your code accordingly.

    Open source code is about scratching your own itch, doing what interests you (and potentially no one else), and the pleasures of problem solving associated with writing software. Yes, some open source projects have resulted in success for their developers because it turned out that what that person was interested in writing was somethign that a lot of people were interested in using. In the end though, almost all the really successful open source coders are people who did what they wanted to do for their own reasons. People who are passionate and interested in what they're coding (an advantage an open source coder has, being able to code whatever interests them) are far more likely to write good code than those disinterested in their projects, which has helped make some open source projects highly successful, but it is no guarantee of success or popularity.

    The advantage of open source from the developers perspective is that they have the opportunity to do exactly what they want to do, exactly what interests them. The disadvantage is that what interests you may very well be of interest to very few others.

    Jedidiah
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:35PM (#11558622)
    If your a unix geek and want to make money, write for Mac OS X.

    Mac OS X: Unix with paying customers.
  • Are there any? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by miyako ( 632510 ) <miyako AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:37PM (#11558632) Homepage Journal
    I agree that it's important to have open source programmers be people who really love the technology and want to innovate and contribute to the project. The thing about the article that confused me though was that it gives the impression that there are hoards of programmers jumping on the OSS bandwagon hoping to make a quick buck, but I don't really see that in my experience.
    Still being in school, I see a LOT of people who went into computers just to make a quick buck, all of them are very strong microsoft advocates.
    Are there people who go into OSS just to make a buck? from what I've seen, people who are primarily interested in money are also huge proprietary software supporters, sort of like if the only thing you care about is money, you can't imagine anyone else coding for the love of it, and therefore can't imagine F/OSS being any good at all.
    • Linux based systems make a huge amount of money. Those same people who simply are looking at making money now see something else that is and they want in. So they'll start up a sourceforge project with their totally great idea and then find out how hard it really is. Since making money is not much of a motivator in the face of actual work, you end up with "This project has released no files."

      Money is the wrong reason to do anything that requires hard work and dedication.
  • Wow. The next time someone rags on me for being a Steve Jobs fanboy I'm going to pass the buck to Linus Torvalds, the "Software Hippie."

    Sheesh. Maybe Linus and Steve should work together?
  • We agree (Score:3, Insightful)

    by heroine ( 1220 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:39PM (#11558653) Homepage
    In growing economies open source may be useful for getting you in the door after college. Once you're in the door or in a declining economy open source will cost you. Managers resent employees who are more visible than they are. Other programmers resent you for upstaging them in public. While everyone who programs free software in college can be considered doing it for the credentials, anyone still doing it after college
    is probably doing it for themself.

  • Well, I used to be a graphics designer until the dot-bomb implosion. I was left with unemployment or entry-level in a new career. After a year and a half, I chose IT. My choices were Windows or Unix. I chose Unix/Linux because it seemed that there were too many MCSEs and A+ certifications flooding the market and I had been "playing" with Linux for a couple of years. I went back to school, got a Unix SysAdmin Certification.

    Currently, I work for a commercial software company that creates Linux specific softw

  • "If you're getting into open source because you see it as a career path"


    Sure, it's a great path, as long as you go in as a CONSULTANT ($$$). Otherwise, it will always remain as a part time job (unless you work at Sun or IBM though ;) )

  • Fundamentally complex fields demand workers who are interested in their work... at least on the macro level.

    It strikes a sore spot in software people, because they know that they are competing with passionateless people for the same jobs, and being sized up as one and the same by their peers every day.
    • I think you have to care about the quality of your work ... but don't necessarily have to find software interesting. I would say it helps a lot, though.

      As for the competition side of things ... ideally, the person best suited to the job (and hopefully the person who *cares* about doing a good job) gets it. In reality, the person whose political and ass-kissing skills have been improved in preference to their job skills frequently gets it. It's true in many areas beyond software.

      I just don't see software a
  • Utter crap (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mcrbids ( 148650 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @10:52PM (#11558746) Journal
    Horsepuckey.

    It all depends on what having an "Open Source Career" means to you.

    I write database-driven weblications with Linux/Apache/PostgreSQL/PHP. I get plenty of opportunities to contribute to the OSS community, (and I do) typically by providing documentation.

    I don't primarily make my living actually writing OSS code, but I frequently release libraries and codebases I consider "commodity". I help out other people.

    I contribute to email lists, online forums, etc. and use Open Source software as a platform to provide services for small to mid-size organizations.

    No career in OSS? PFFFT!
  • Don't do anything as a career path. Do something that you enjoy doing. Those people that get into high tech just for the money still won't be as happy maying $100,000 a year, as someone who is doing something they actually enjoy making $30,000 a year. I took Software engineering in university because I enjoy it. But from what I have seen, I would have to say that 50% of engineering students hate what they are doing, and only doing it because it is a career path. Oh well. At least I'm happy.
  • No, no, no (Score:4, Insightful)

    by phritz ( 623753 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:03PM (#11558822)
    I'm not objecting the the article, but to the fact that yet again, the submitter plaigiarized the article. You can write 'Larry Greenmeier reports' or 'according to the InformationWeek Weblog' then quote to your heart's content. When the submitter simply copies and pastes the article and includes no attribution, it implies that the submitter wrote that paragraph. That's plagiarism. Editors, get it together - this is unacceptable.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:03PM (#11558824)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Bah. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SoupIsGood Food ( 1179 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:05PM (#11558832)
    Utter horseshit. While not everyone can get to work for a Cygwin or OSDL, a savy OSS programmer will eventually pick up the skills needed to participate in large, complex projects. This is resume fodder of the highest order. Those who are project initiators or maintainers will get to apply for jobs like "Architect" and be taken seriously. It's a way of ganing experience without having any experience... and experience means more money and seniority when landing a new job.

    SoupIsGood Food
  • by hayden ( 9724 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:07PM (#11558849)
    Linus isn't saying you can't make money from working on open source. Or that you should plan to do something else. Part of what he's doing is rephrasing something Paul Graham said in one of his essays:

    "Great hackers think of it [coding] as something they do for fun, and which they're delighted to find people will pay them for."

    The other part of it is pointing out that choosing to go into open source like you'd choose to work in a supermarket at uni, really wont work. In the open source world it gets you almost nowhere because being a good coder is something you can't fake. If you're doing it for the bullet point on your resume then it'll all seem like too much work the first time somebody rips on your code.

  • by drew ( 2081 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:09PM (#11558858) Homepage
    seriously, what is up lately that the people submitting articles can't even bother to write their own summary? i can't even think of how many articles on slashdot in the last two weeks have been just a copy/paste of the first paragraph of the page they were linking to.

    Not that this is a new phonomenon or anything, but it seems to have gotten way out of hand lately.
  • "In open source, you have to be a better communicator and to be able to defend yourself," Behlendorf said. He added that a thick skin also is a requirement when laying bare one's work for all the world to see and criticize."

    No shit. You mean there are actually people take exception to your existence if you disagree with them?

    I was told by a friend of mine about a science conference where the speaker was openly and harshly challenged in public by his critics about his conclusions and interpretations. Taki
  • by Money for Nothin' ( 754763 ) on Wednesday February 02, 2005 @11:14PM (#11558894)
    Look, any field you get into is going to say "don't do it for the money, do it because you like it!"

    Computer geeks say it about IT.

    Lawyers say it about law.

    Doctors say it about medicine.

    But what about the fields NOBODY likes? Did you ever hear Joe Toiletscrubber say "don't clean toilets for the money, do it because you like it!"? Highly doubtful.

    The truth is, people do go into fields for the money -- including the computer geeks, the lawyers (especially corporate and IP lawyers), the doctors, and so forth. People take up jobs as garbage collectors, NOT because they're passionate about it, but because it's a job few other people are willing to do -- and it pays well because of that fact. Garbage collectors do it for the money.

    So do strippers. And prostitutes (indeed, prostitutes in Nevada have been known to work for about 3-4 years, then retire for life with over $1 million in income for their time in bed).

    There are people who get PhD's in the natural sciences NOT because they enjoy their academic field of study, but because they know they will make more money with a PhD than a lesser degree.

    Telling people to "do it because you love it" is a nice ideal. But ultimately, all things revolve around money, and people will work in IT because there is decent money to be made there (yes, even now with the offshoring and the lack of dot-bombs to leech from, IT is still a relatively well-paying career path).

    Be honest: are YOU passionate about processing business reports? How about maintaining 25 year-old COBOL apps? I sure as hell am not (though the theoretical side of "computer science" does interest me).

    Are you even passionate about writing code for other people in general when the project is not one of your choice or even really particularly interesting? I'm not -- but I do it anyway, because there are far worse jobs (waiting tables, shoveling shit in Louisiana) that pay far-less too, and I can find ways to trick myself into liking the work I'm not interested in.

    Anybody who says "do it for the love of the work" probably enjoys their work so much that they're at the top of the pack -- and Torvalds is probably the best example in the world. If you love your labor, more power to you.

    The rest of us, however, will work at what we do because we're competent enough to get paid for it and we enjoy it just enough not to do something else we enjoy more instead -- but we're mentally-balanced enough not to revolve our lives around our work.
    • MOD Parent up. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TapeCutter ( 624760 )
      I'm 45 and got into IT from the factory floor 15 yrs ago, just as the web was starting and unemployment from manufacturing lay-offs was at its peak. I was always a closet geek and started with a second hand apple 2E that drove my Ex nuts. Someone told me you could make money from it. I decided to do a BSc part time, the nylon factory was not interested in my plans even though they ran a mainframe and leased time to other bussinesses. After using night shift to complete a year of corrospondence maths, I quit
  • I object! What about small/medium size businesses that have little legacy development? Open source has a few things going for it.

    -Open Standards: Open source many times means open standards for file formats and API's. When you leave the company they can cut and paste in a worker that is trained on the proprietary version with little hastle.

    -Productivity: Ruby/MySQL/apache or C#/oracle/Windows Server?

    -Portability: Mac, Windows, linux, Solaris... no OS lockin.

    -Outsourcing: Say you have a shop in China. Wh
  • Career path?
    $ which career
    which: no career in (/usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/ X11R6/bin)
    Feel ready to own one or many Tux Stickers [ptaff.ca]?
  • by Jah-Wren Ryel ( 80510 ) on Thursday February 03, 2005 @12:00AM (#11559182)
    The idea that the happiest people are those who have a passion for their profession is nothing new. Linus is just restating that old truism in the context of working with Free software. But in reality it applies just as much to the proprietary coder too and just as much to an advertising exec and even to a call-girl, or (dare I say it) lawyers (there are A LOT of unhappy lawyers out there).

    Linus's statement seems to have brought out the latent belief in a lot of people that "you can't make money writing Free software." This belief is a falsehood and it only takes a few seconds of rational thought to discover that.

    1) Redhat makes money, the employees of Redhat make money. Redhat works with 100% Free software, thus working with Free software CAN and IS profitable.

    2) Last I read, IBM currently has over 600 engineers employed working on Free software, maybe even just Linux alone. Those guys are getting paid and IBM ain't doing it for charity, they are doing it to add value to the services and products that they sell their customers.

    The way you personally can make money from Free software is not by selling identical shrink wrapped copies, that only works for old-school, copyright-cartel, value-sucking companies. Instead, you make money by ADDING value to Free software. In other words, custom development. This works for the 1-man contract developer as well as huge consulting organizations like IBM's Global Services. Take currently existing Free software and build on it to solve a specific customer's specific requirements. You get paid for that work and, depending on the contract, the effort either stays within the client company or is shared back to the rest of the world. The GPL is designed specifically for that kind of situation and it is no surprise given that RMS often worked on contract tweaking GNU software for individual clients.

    So forget all this baloney that Free software "takes away jobs" and the like because it doesn't. Instead, Free software is about not having to re-invent the wheel so that business that USE software can do more for less and are thus even more efficient in the long run. That efficiency helps the ENTIRE economy, not just a select few members of the copyright cartel.
  • by Kludge ( 13653 )
    I wish he would have told us this earlier. I guess we should stop dropping $10Ks on that open source computing cluster support contract, and get Windows installed on all those machines.
  • Let's see - you spend some ungodly amount of money on an education to learn all kinds of crap about computers.

    you find that the closed shop of Apple is a good old boys network that Just Ain't gonna Happen for you. And the world of Microsoft is a world of evil Evil EVIL!!!!

    So you focus a lot of time and brain cells on open source, and GUESS WHAT?

    There's no money in it...

    Soooo, what do you do?

    Bill Gates: "Roll up your arm and bend over - how do you want it? Regular or Premium?"

    Depending on the kin

  • by Diabolical ( 2110 ) on Thursday February 03, 2005 @07:24AM (#11560839) Homepage
    Sigh,

    How many people just like to read the things they want to read instead of actually try to understand it.

    If you want to understand Linus' reasoning i suggest you get your hands on a copy of Pekka Himanen's "The Hacker Ethic".

    I consider myself "old skool" IT. I became an IT because i love the technology and it's possibilities. Around me i hear other reasons.. "the job opportunities were good and i saw a chance to get rich quickly" or "well.. i didn't know what to do so i chose this". Linus just asks people to question their reasons. Are you an IT worker who is just in it for the fun or are you one who wan't to make a big career but don't care in what? The first does not exclude the latter and in fact history has shown that the first often leads to the latter. However, of late, new FOSS developers became FOSS developers because they are looking for a career instead of having fun and/or creating art.

    They don't care about FOSS, they only care about their career which happens to involve FOSS right now but that can easily be replaced by the "next big thing" come opportunity and chance. They have no real love for FOSS or it's possibilities.

    You can have a career in FOSS. A good one in fact.. but please.. do it for the love it. If you create something in FOSS, be prepared to support and or develop it for a long time. Do not abbandon it when you decide to get a career change.

    Some clarification, i'm not a software developer. All i know is out of what i experience and read about. Wish i had the drive and passion for software developing.. but simply put.. i'm scared of it... sometimes i'm just glad i can get a piece of software installed (be it on windows or Linux, doesn't matter).
  • by Glamdrlng ( 654792 ) on Thursday February 03, 2005 @08:37AM (#11561269)
    Call it software with a soul, if you like. Only the truly passionate need apply.
    I've always felt that the same applies to any career path. If you don't love what you're doing, then find something you do love doing and can make a buck in the process. Life is entirely too short to spend it being miserable.

"Someone's been mean to you! Tell me who it is, so I can punch him tastefully." -- Ralph Bakshi's Mighty Mouse

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