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Red Hat Software Businesses Government Software Linux Politics

Red Hat Opens Lobbying Office Near DC 155

Posted by CmdrTaco from the subscribing-to-highlights-magazine dept.
wiredog writes "From Government Computer News comes this story about Red Hat's new lobbying office near Washington DC, and mentions that RHEL 4 will have Common Criteria Evaluation Assurance Level 4 certification."
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Red Hat Opens Lobbying Office Near DC More

Red Hat Opens Lobbying Office Near DC

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  • I was hoping they'd be in DC (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:01PM (#11529412)
    In Foggy Bottom, so that we could call them Fog Hat.

  • Suggestion (Score:5, Funny)

    by wombatmobile ( 623057 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:01PM (#11529418)
    Adopt pre-emptive strike doctrine.

  • Woo hoo! (Score:5, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:02PM (#11529431) Homepage Journal
    Now Red Hat can play DC like the big boys!
    Bob Young: Thanks for meeting me for lunch, Congressman.
    Congressman: My pleasure.
    Bob Young: [passing envelope under table] Have you thought about the silly bills the proprietary software people want passed?
    Congressman: [counting cash] Yes, and frankly Mr. Young, I think Open Sauce is the only way to go!
    Bob Young: Source. Open Source.
    Congressman: Gotcha.

    • Re:Woo hoo! (Score:4, Funny)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:06PM (#11529480)
      He's certainly "pretty" [gcn.com] enough to be a politician stroker.

      You gotta love the fact that they seemed to have digitally enhanced the whiteness of his teeth.
      • That could be due to those peroxide whitestrips they sell. Not sure if I'd want to have such a strong oxidiser in my mouth...

        • Re:Woo hoo! (Score:2, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward
          > Not sure if I'd want to have such a strong >oxidiser in my mouth...

          Why would he put oxidizer on his genitals?
          • You know, I was going to rant about how this was modded informative, and that even as a joke modding it informative would be stupid.

            Then I realized maybe being modded informative was an accident, so I decided to rant about being more careful and using the wonderful preview button.

            Then I thought about it and said to myself, "Self, why do you care?" And I don't.

            But I had to rant about something! Spelling, or posting AC...anything. Otherwise I wouldn't even rate with the big boys.

            Then I realized it was
            • Then I realized that my entire post was stupid, and maybe I have answered one too many help desk calls this morning.

              Please forgive me. That's probably the most retarded post I've ever made.

      • Re:Woo hoo! (Score:3, Funny)

        by Ridcully ( 121813 )
        They digitally removed the fangs.
        I think he does look like a younger Christopher Lee.

      • Re:Woo hoo! (Score:5, Funny)

        by Odin's Raven ( 145278 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:13PM (#11529547)
        You gotta love the fact that they seemed to have digitally enhanced the whiteness of his teeth.

        It's okay - I'm sure they used The Gimp to do it. :-)

      • He looks like Dennis Hopper playing King Koopa in the Super Mario Brothers movie. That doesn't exactly lend him the air of authority one would like.

    • Re:Woo hoo! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by discordja ( 612393 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:14PM (#11529561)
      I've lived and worked in DC for a while now (for a non prof lobbying group to boot) and can tell you it's a much different beast than it's made out to be...tho still a beast.

      Most congressmen don't interact with the lobby groups directly. An office will have gobs of LAs (Legistlative Assistants) and they will in turn do most of the contacting and oft times a lot of the deal brokering on some issues.

      Most lobbying is nothing more than smart manouvering. You get their staffers drunk, pump em for information, then go to their constituents and whip em into a frenzy when you find the dirt.

    • Re:Woo hoo! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by AviLazar ( 741826 )
      You meant to say:

      *Congressman snickers* "Surely you jest? This doesn't even scratch what BG is forking out. Hell this doesn't even cover the lunch bill...maybe you should start charging for your software, and run a few patents to ensure others can't copy it."

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:02PM (#11529435)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Lobbying.. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by iamacat ( 583406 )
      It's only bribery if someone promises campaign donations in exchange for a decision. Otherwise it's just infomercials. And we can not get rid of it right away, because otherwise politicians have no way to get educated on every issue they vote on or know which ones are controversial enough to research deeper. Would you be able to make an informed decision on which brand of tractors government should buy? Then don't expect a farmer to understand the difference between Linux and Windows. He will just pick what

      • Open Lobbying (Score:3, Interesting)

        by persaud ( 304710 )
        Require public Internet disclosure of every meeting between an elected official and a lobbyist.

        Think of it as CVS for Lobbyists.

        Check in. Check out.

        • Re:Open Lobbying (Score:3, Interesting)

          by iamacat ( 583406 )
          It would be reasonable to disclose that the meeting took place, but probably not the contents. If a politician initially considers to do something illegal or stupid due to his ignorance of the subject during the meeting and then educates himself and makes a good decision, he deserves more credit, not less for actually caring about doing his job. Yet, it would be extensively used in smear campaigns during elections.
          • Not the contents, just the fact of the meeting.

            The key is near-real-time disclosure. There are existing laws for disclosure, but the timeframes are too long. With immediate disclosure, it allows competing lobbyists to make their case(s).

            Transparency of association, not chilling of speech.
    • Well lobbying is bad, but it's necessary because Microsoft, SCO, and Sun also lobby. (Groupthink is doubleplusgood!) But seriously - there should be limits on how much non-single-human entities are allowed to influence government.

    • Re:Lobbying.. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by bgs4 ( 599215 )
      I guess that's funny and all, but as someone who has posted on slashdot before about the evils of lobbying, I can tell you that, as much as I like to see microsoft's lobbyists get some competition, professional lobbying still sucks no matter who is doing it.

      The fact is that many congresspeople after leaving office become very highly paid lobbyists. What this means is that their influence on government goes to the highest bidder. If you have enough money, you can essentially purchase your very own Influe


    • Lobbying is not even taintamount to bribery, it is bribery!

      I like it:

      taintamount - adj. - quality of a bad thing being remarkably similar to something worse

      /made up the definition. still like the word, though.

      /definition of tantamount [reference.com]

  • Welcome To The Big League (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:03PM (#11529436) Homepage Journal
    RHEL 4 will have Common Criteria Evaluation Assurance Level 4 certification.

    While Microsoft will have nothing of the sort, unless they've lied through their teeth, yet the US Government still will used hundreds of thousands of instances of Windows on PC's throughout countless bureaus.

    RedHat will lobby, "Look, we have a totally transparent operating sytem, if it is in any way compromised it will likely be fixed in less than 24 hours and we can work with you to handle logistical details of patching all necessary computers. In the long run we're cheaper, reliable and immediately accountable." To which, a government all to used to chutzpah and hubris over the past few years will reply, "We don't like transparency, haven't you learned anything by now? Clearly our Great Benefactor in Redmond is a better patron and we totally believe him when he tells us that insurgents are behind exploiting security holes."

    • Yes but RedHat doesn't have the PR department that Microsoft has nor do they have the cash that Microsoft has.

      Money makes the world go round, or in this case gets the government to buy from them.

      Though one would think with all the bad PR that Microsoft get for their security problems, someone in the government would wake up and reconsider.

      • Re:Most Common Criteria evaluations are worthless (Score:5, Informative)

        by Isao ( 153092 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:38PM (#11529800)
        CC Evaluations are widely misunderstood, but are actually relevent and valuable if you know how to use them (which it seems most don't).

        The key to the CC is the Security Target or Protection Profile. The EAL number indicates how rigorously the claims in these documents have been verified. (The article linked covers this.) If the claims in an ST or PP are important to you, higher EAL's provide more assurance that what is claimed is in fact true. If you require something that isn't in the ST or PP, then even an EAL7 means nothing to you.

        It seems that most people think of the EAL as a simple "security score," which isn't the case.

        • The real problem is that STs and PPs are difficult to read and even harder to understand. In my view, this makes certification for any product whose main functionality isn't specifically covered by a Protection Profile absolutely useless.

          For example, there is no Protection Profile defining a secure Operating System (that would be impossible). So Microsoft goes out and certifies their access control mechanism. What does that say about the security of their users? Not much, really. But the government m

      • well, I don't to DAA/C&A stuff for a living, but I picked up the cert in grad school getting a Comp Sci MS in InfoSec...anyway

        You're mostly right....The Windows 2000 EAL4 certification is totally worthless, because they used a CAPP (Controlled Access Protection Profile) for the evaluation process, meaning that it's quite secure in totally non-hostile environment. This is about as far from what a typical server hooked up to the internet (running actual Services) will encounter as possible, so it's BS.

    • I work for a DoD contractor (Score:5, Informative)

      by wiredog ( 43288 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:15PM (#11529572) Journal
      Getting ready to install RHEL3 on my box, getting a workstation in next week which we will install RHEL3 on, and the Zaurus should be in on Tuesday.

      There's lots of Linux in government, but it's mainly on the server side. Or with agencies that don't want to leave a paper trail of what they've bought 9and from whom) and who consider protecting their data to be the highest priority.

    • Re:Welcome To The Big League (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      And RedHat will reply:
      "Look at IBM. They sold their PC division to the Chinese and you're worrried that they will have access to strategic information about government computers. If Microsoft's software division gets sold, you'll face the same problem. With RedHat, that wouldn't be a problem since everything is transparent. If you don't want us to know something, you can deal with it yourself or hire contractors with the appropriate security clearance since it's open source. Our patches are transparent, ful
    • While Microsoft will have nothing of the sort, unless they've lied through their teeth, yet the US Government still will used hundreds of thousands of instances of Windows on PC's throughout countless bureaus.

      Actually, Windows 2000 SP3 has an EAL 4 Certification [zdnet.co.uk] as well. You'll probably criticize MS for using the CAPP profile, but the article doesn't mention what profile Red Hat will be targeting.
    • All of that will be useless cause Bill Gates owns portion of a satellite. Which automatically makes him the government and DC's favorite friend.

  • Business is business (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:04PM (#11529458)
    a company is a company
    no matter what they make
    no matter what they sell
    no matter who runs it
    no matter who works for it
    no matter how exceptional they may seem or may be
    business is still business,
    they always turn out the same way in the end, always.
    • Businesses might all turn out the same if put into a monopoly position, but good strong competition keeps them honest.
    • Which is why we used to have laws against monopoly. Not the past tense. But what do I know, I'm not a lobbiest.
    • A communist state is a communist state
      No matter what they take
      No matter what they give
      No matter who runs it
      No matter who lives there
      No matter how exceptional they may seem or may be
      Communism is still communism,
      It always turn out the same way in the end, always

      If you think the above is flamebait, then reconsider the BS moderations ("Insightful"?!?!) of the parent post. WTF? All businesses are evil? A company is not a company. You might have the misfortune of working for a soulless vampire, but t

    • Yeah, like Costco [teamster.org].

      Oh, wait...

  • It's a nice start (Score:5, Interesting)

    by chris09876 ( 643289 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:05PM (#11529464)
    I really can't think of any bad that can come from this. Hopefully it will improve the visibility of Linux for people who make decisions. In certain cases, people might not even know that linux is an option. Hopefully this new division can help fix that.

    The article does make a good point with the Exchange servers though. It's been mentioned here before..., but Linux does need some better connectivity with Exchange to help sell some of the people who already have large systems already set up be more comfortable with the idea of Linux.

    • Re:It's a nice start (Score:4, Insightful)

      by pclminion ( 145572 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:19PM (#11529619)
      I really can't think of any bad that can come from this.

      You can't? What about how it strengthens the ridiculous practice of corporations lobbying for corporate interests? Government is supposed to serve the people, not corporations. No matter what Red Hat's motives are.

      • Your naivete is cute, but dangerous.

        Corporations -- and Government -- are both made up of people.

        Who do you think has lobbied longer, stronger, and more effectively against Federal obscenity laws, "grass roots" groups like the EFF, or Playboy?

        The addition of a money-making real-people corporation like Red Hat opening an office on K Street is the single best, smartest, most effective move the Linux Community could have made to combat closed and proprietary systems.

        It's "Fist in The Air/Head Up The Ass" a
        • Who do you think has lobbied longer, stronger, and more effectively against Federal obscenity laws, "grass roots" groups like the EFF, or Playboy?

          Congratulations, you've managed to discern why I think the system is completely fucked.

          It's "Fist in The Air/Head Up The Ass" attitudes like yours that reinforce the "smelly hippie" stereotypes and retard the spread and acceptance of free software.

          If only you knew how ridiculous your stupid assumptions are...

          • If only you knew how ridiculous your stupid assumptions are...

            So why don't you update me, smart guy? I educated you today, now it's your turn. My mind's open.
            • So why don't you update me, smart guy? I educated you today, now it's your turn. My mind's open.

              For one, you assume that because I dislike corporate lobbying that I must be a tree-hugger railing against The Man. The degree to which you have stereotyped me based on a single statement is pretty amazing.

              I simply believe that corporate lobbying can only serve corporate interests. These interests are not often aligned with the interests of individuals. Thus, organized lobbying in the public interest should

              • These interests are not often aligned with the interests of individuals.

                And very often they are. Corporations being comprised of individuals, how could they not be?

                organized NON-CORPORATE voting groups

                Well, sure. Except most of the non-corporate voting groups I've encountered are rather disorganized. Their hearts and minds seem to be in the right place, but it's only when their wallet's on the line that they seem to get it together.

                Lookit, I'm not debating the happy utopian value of a world withou
                • And very often they are. Corporations being comprised of individuals, how could they not be?

                  The motives of corporations are not like those of other groups. Corporations exist solely to make as much money as quickly as possible. Obviously, yes, the people who comprise that corporation want to further this goal. But unless you're trying to say that all groups of people are equivalent to money-seeking groups of people, I'm not sure how you can say that it's all the same thing.

                  Lookit, I'm not debating the

    • Better connectivity? Have you tried the Novell/Ximian connector lately?

      My company is on Exchange 2003, and I use the N/X Connector with Evolution on Gentoo. I no longer have to run VMWare! The only thing that the N/X connector can't do is archive... other than that, it does everything that Outlook does (that I need it to do)... give it a try, and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

  • Uh oh (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward


    Money brings power, and the American people always lose in the process.

  • Just Redhat?? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Foofoobar ( 318279 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:06PM (#11529479)
    Shouldn't the OSDL have an office so that IBM, Redhat and all the others can lobby together instead of separately?

    Is there even an OSDL lobby?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • But they CAN agree upon certain goals that they all can lobby on as a part of the OSDL. Naturally, each vendor is going to have their own separate agenda but common interests should be met with a unified voice.

        So how come no OSDL lobby yet?
    • Is there even an OSDL lobby?

      You think they can afford a lobby? They couldn't even buy a broom closet!
      • You mean do I think that IBM and Redhat and Intel and AMD and more can afford a lobby? You know you're right, I heard those companies only exist of a couple of guys working out of there garage. They probably are all dirt poor.

  • Still Not Right (Score:3, Insightful)

    by treehouse ( 781426 ) * on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:06PM (#11529483)
    Sorry, I don't like Linux companies trying to get special favors from the government any more than I like Microsoft doing it. Now you might argue that Linux, being the underdog, deserves to try to balance things in Washington. Using that argument, it would be okay for a poor kid to shoplift because he needs it. Doesn't make it right.

    • Re:Still Not Right (Score:5, Informative)

      by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:18PM (#11529610) Homepage Journal
      Depends on what those special "favors" are. Sometimes it is as simple as educating the official. Think of it this way. Microsoft says. "If you do not stop Open Source software you will loose thousands of high paying jobs in you state."
      Red Hat says. "If you should demand open and documented file formats so that your data can not be held hostage." Imagine if Microsoft went out of business like Eastern Airlines, or American Motor Corp, or "former large employer from that state goes here". Think of all those documents that could be lost be cause you can not read them on you new software!"

      • Microsoft says. "If you do not stop Open Source software you will loose thousands of high paying jobs in you state."

        Micorosoft only says things like that because they use Word's grammar checker to write their speeches.
    • Ok kids let's not buy the proprietary Windows XP - let's instead spend our money on a Red Hat Workstation!

      What? Debian? No, no, no - you got that wrong!

      To learn about Linux you should only use Red Hat Linux - the most popular Linux distribution on the planet! And if you study hard one day you may get lucky and get a RHCE certificate - the most coveted international certification!

    • Re:Still Not Wrong (Score:4, Insightful)

      by wombatmobile ( 623057 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:30PM (#11529718)

      Sorry, I don't like Linux companies trying to get special favors from the government

      Special favors? That's a whole other thing. Establishing a lobbying office is just one step towards getting seen and heard (as opposed to remaining unnoticed).

      For a Linux company to obtain special favors would require more than an office.

    • Re:Still Not Right (Score:1, Insightful)

      by AlanS2002 ( 580378 )
      Who says it necessarily about favours, there is also countering any FUD by MS. In any case your shoplifting analagy is a poor one. Companies compete all the time and this is all this is, not at all akin to stealing.
    • It's built into the system. I don't like Social Security, but when the time comes I'll be collecting my check. Not because I think it is the right way to invest money but because I had to and that's how the system works.

      I will vote and do what I can in order to privatize it though until then. Use the system as it is, even if it is against the changes you are trying to make.
    • You do understand that Robin Hood is a hero, right?

      So even if you don't like it, you cannot shut up the people who use that logic by extending it to thievery, because the same people would support it in that case too.

      I actually like this but not because it is OK since they are the underdog. I like it because it is a sign of Red Hat working within the system to get what it wants. Better would be to change the system, but still Open source workign within a corrupt system helps Open Source and hurts noone
    • Using that argument, it would be okay for a poor kid to shoplift because he needs it. Doesn't make it right.

      This analogy is terrible. Using analogies like this would be like carrying water with a telephone.

  • this leaves me perplexed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by m2bord ( 781676 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:08PM (#11529502) Homepage Journal
    on the one hand...i like the fact that there is a company there that can counter microsoft's lobby.

    but on the otherside...i firmly believe that this is what is so horribly wrong with our government.

    lobbying by corporations seems to have made lawmakers more responsible to the lobbyist rather than the constituent
    • lobbying by corporations seems to have made lawmakers more responsible to the lobbyist rather than the constituent

      that's because the constituents don't get off their asses and make their voices heard.
      • that's because the constituents don't get off their asses and make their voices heard.

        No, its because only big businesses (and those who run them) can afford the expensive media circus that is required to get your voice heard in the modern age. Just who do you think paid for all of Bush's pricy relection ads?

        Fact is, individual people have no chance to compete against professional, expensive corporate lobbists. Its easier to let the evil laws come to pass then use an Ego-driven judge to throw all of the bo

        • Just who do you think paid for all of Bush's pricy relection ads?

          Which were aimed the constituents, not at the government.

          There are plenty of citizens-based lobbying groups out there. Try giving them a hand isntead of watching from the sidelines.
        • Yes we do. Vote against all incumbants, they are all owned by the lobbyist with the fattest checkbook. Party is not important to anyone who has served more than 2 terms, just money.
    • Lobbying in general is just how the system works. As constituents rarely if ever organize mass letter writing campaigns to congressmen anymore. Now I'm not saying I like big coporations with lots of money being able to lobby but the solution isn't to get rid of lobbying as a part of our legislative process it should be to form organizations that lobby for what you want.
    • Exactly, the problem is with the government, not RedHat. Right now if you don't play in DC, you end up losing as a corporation.

      RedHat didn't invent lobbying, they were just getting affected by it because MS and others were doing their best to scare politicins with FUD.

  • Lobbying war vs. Microsoft... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ari_j ( 90255 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:08PM (#11529503)
    If they hope to out-lobby MSFT, they'd have better luck putting their money into a toilet and pushing the flush handle. I hope they have a legitimate strategy to justify this move.
  • I find the comment about RHEL 4 will be released being evaluated at Common Criteria EAL 4 interesting, considering RHEL is not listed as a product in under evaluation yet (http://niap.nist.gov/cc-scheme/in_evaluation.html )! That should take about six months mimimally, so when are we looking at RHEL 4 being released?

  • I sure hope... (Score:5, Funny)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:13PM (#11529549) Homepage Journal
    Redhat highlights Linux's faith-based approaches to task scheduling and memory management.

    Tux loves Jesus too! [linuxjournal.com] Kidding...kidding.

    • You know, I suspect you are a troll, but I'm not getting it. Maybe I'm just stupid, but really, what are you taking a stab at?

      Okay, maybe I see your point about the memory managemenet, assuming that your one line comment refers to Linux's tendency to overcommit on memory. But are you really saying that?

      As a troll, your composition is muddled, and inconsistent. If this is in fact a parody the current America administration, could you give us some additional hints? Some context? A picture of Bush with the O
      • Don't worry -- I don't get it either.

        "Faith-based" means nothing to me in this context -- maybe someone else can point out why this is funny / trollish. I detect sarcasm, but without some intelligent background in the area being slighted, I can't figure out how to take it.

  • About fricking time (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TheGrapeApe ( 833505 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:18PM (#11529607)
    With M$ tethered to the viciously unpopular offshoring issue, this move just makes sense; "How can you justify giving taxpayer dollars to companies that are hell-bent on shipping your constituent's jobs overseas?". They should have been asking this question a _long_ time ago.
  • I'm sure that even with a lobbying office in DC, that Redmond will launch a shock-and-awe campaign that will make the RedHat guys run home screaming to mommy when their overcome by a republican guard of WMDs (Windows Misinformation Drones).
  • only in the open and work for free?

    Sorry.

  • Pessimism... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by IOOOOOI ( 588306 ) on Monday January 31, 2005 @12:37PM (#11529787)
    I hate to point this out, but historically when a company reaches this level they are more likely to be assimiated into the status quo than to change it.
    • That "fact" sounds made up. One could argue that most companies are part of the "status quo" before needing to lobby, too. But I made that up, as well :)

  • Redhat actively supports F/OSS (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Remember that although they do not provide free binary downloads of their OSes almost everything they aquire thru their profits from other companies they open source.

    Also they are providing proper enginerring Q&A analysis to the source code of Linux and is providing a aspect that previously was thought to be lacking in OSS software. (who would pay to do the boring code review?)

    So far Redhat has been mostly good for Linux and Linux has been mostly good for them.

    I use Debian though.
  • I can see it now...the msft states vs the redhat states...umm maybe not :-)
  • "Hi, I'm Paul Smith. I have a new linux distribution called 'White Teeth Linux' I'd like to sell you today."
  • He looks like an evil version of Sean Connery's Bond.

    Twin good vs evil is the only cliche that Bond movies haven't used.

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