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TOra Project Looking for New Maintainer 45

cerberusss writes "TOra is a GPL'ed, QT-based Oracle/PostgreSQL client, one of the most full-featured for many years. The lead developer Henrik Johnson was hired by Quest Software to work further on TOra. After some time of inactivity, Henrik has put a request on the developer list, saying: 'I'm sorry for not being able to spend that much time on TOra as I should. I am now working full time on future versions of TOAD by Quest. (...) I am wondering if someone on this mailing list is willing to step up as a new maintainer of this project.' Also interesting is that the GPL'ed code base compiles for both Windows and Linux, but compiling for Windows is not allowed anymore because of the license of Trolltech's QT."
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TOra Project Looking for New Maintainer

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  • why don't the Window's user just chip in together and by someone -for example the project leader- a Qt license. That way he could build it for Windows, give it for free to the people who donated, and then sell the binaries for anyone who wanted to run it on Windows? Any profit could go towards either being another license if it needs to be renewed or to pay back some of the donators or to hire a full time programmer? Really, because this doesn't sound so difficult and since no one has done it it must meant
    • Well, in reality, it shows you, once again, why you should never, ever use a proprietary solution in an open-source project.

      • Troll (Score:3, Informative)

        Qt is GPL and thus free enough for RMS and that is free enough for anyone (excepting *BSD people).
        • As a matter of fact, QT open source licensing [trolltech.com] only applies to Linux, UNIX and MacOS X. The Windows version of QT is not available under a free license.

          That may be sufficient for RMS as he is only targeting GPLed platforms anyways, for Windows or cross platform developers this is an altogether different thing.

          QT is not free software.
    • Re:Trolltech (Score:4, Interesting)

      by vanza ( 125693 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @06:24PM (#10738390)
      The problem is that this would not work, according to Trolltech [trolltech.com].
      • To me that doesn't say you can't compile it under Windows, just that if you do compile on Windows with the commercial version you must still release your software under the GPL license.
        • Exactly what I was thinking... and since the source code is freely (i.e. GPL) anyway there isn't any point in trying to hide it either!
        • Except the QT Commercial License explicity states that you must develop a program using the Qt commercial library from scratch with that library. You could GPL it after the fact (or simultaneously), but you can't take something already developed with the GPL library and switch to the commercial library later.
          • You are wrong, as this Q&A points out:

            Q: Why is there no Open Source (GNU GPL) version of Qt on Windows ? A: We have regrettably not found a way of making GPL versions for Windows available without risking the very business model we depend upon to be able to further develop and support Qt. Please note that if you make the source code for your project available and your license allows it, any holder of a commercial Qt Windows license can create binaries for your project.

          • It says you can't switch your GPL software to a commerical license. I don't see it forbidding you compiling GPL software using the commerical Win32 version and distributing with a GPL license.
  • PGAdmin II [pgadmin.org]. It is based on a mature, open source, cross-platform GUI toolkit and written in C++. And that toolkit [wxwidgets.org] does not have any restrictions on where you can compile for it or what you can port it to.
    • pgAdmin doesn't work with Oracle, so no, you can't switch to pgAdmin.

      • TOra works with PostgreSQL (according to the announcement). PGAdmin works with PostgreSQL. Hence, yes, many people who use TOra can use PGAdmin.

        If you are using TOra with Oracle, then, no, you can't use PGAdmin (but, then, you have bigger problems anyway).
  • by Yokaze ( 70883 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @06:48PM (#10738610)
    According to Mr. Johnson [sourceforge.net]

    The reason for it not being compilable for Windows is the fact that Qt is not available for Windows in any GPL compatible version and the license of the GPL:d TOra specifically prohibits it from being linked with the commercial versions of Qt. The reason for this is that previously I and now Quest does not want it to interfere with out commercial products.


    So, it seems to me more an issue with TOras license, than Trolltechs. For example, I fail to see how it should be incompatible with the GPL to link a product with a commercial library, when you don't distribute it.
    • TOra's license is GPL, straight, no chaser. The GPL specifically prohibits linking with non-Free 3rd party libraries, like the commercial versions of Qt. Such 3rd party libraries are a vendor lock-in trap.

      • "So, it seems to me more an issue with TOras license, than Trolltechs. For example, I fail to see how it should be incompatible with the GPL to link a product with a commercial library, when you don't distribute it."

        The GPL has nothing against use of its binaries or code with any other license. Only distribution. There is no way, if Tora indeed has such an extra restriction, that their license is straight GPL.

      • TOra's license is GPL, straight, no chaser.Not quite. If you read the threads on SourceForge, it is an additional clause Henrik and Quest have added, expressing their interpretation of the GPL, that is causing the difficulties, not the Trolltech license.

        The GPL specifically prohibits linking with non-Free 3rd party libraries, like the commercial versions of Qt.

        Right. So Henrik simply bought a copy of Qt to compile the binaries. According to Henrik, for the distribution, the GPL allows you to exclude

    • According to Trolltech, compiling GPL'ed code using a commercial Qt license is just fine.

      (from http://www.trolltech.com/developer/faqs/license_g p l.html?cid=20#q15 )

      Q: Why is there no Open Source (GNU GPL) version of Qt on Windows ?

      A: We have regrettably not found a way of making GPL versions for Windows available without risking the very business model we depend upon to be able to further develop and support Qt.

      A: Please note that if you make the source code for your project available and your license
      • GPL Qt for Windows (Score:2, Interesting)

        by khanyisa ( 595216 )
        But the folks at kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net are producing a GPL version for windows ... by porting the X11 version and filling out the missing parts. They seem to be making good progress. I wonder what response Trolltech will give...
  • by HighOrbit ( 631451 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @08:11PM (#10739292)
    I *really* hope a new maintainer can be found, because TOra is my favorite Oracle admin tool set. I don't even use any of Oracle's management console or DBA studio (except for netca) if I have TOra available. My favorite things about TOra are:

    1)the UI layout of the schema browser. It has tabs that let you see everything about a schema (and its objects and the data) in one easy place.

    2) The extraction utility lets you get a single comprehensive sql script to re-create a database schema and load all the data in one easy step. Absolutely beautiful.

    If you are an Oracle DBA or developer, I strongly recommend that you download TOra and give it a spin. I don't think you will ever go back to Oracle Console.

    Please, somebody with the right skill-set, please pick this up and mantain it.
    • I dunno, but in my experience both TOAD and PL/SQL Developer offer much better Oracle development/administration environment (and the latter does not cost you an arm and a leg of the former).

      As far as TOra'a PostgreSQL support -- that was, agian IMHO, was always lagging far behind PgAdmin or plain psql...
    • My company uses Oracle. TOAD and TOra are 2 of our most critical applications.

      For Windows users, we use TOAD (+licenses) or TOra.

      For Linux users, we use TOra. There is *no* Linux version of TOAD.

      TOAD has *alot* of features that I was hoping one day TOra would have. Due to the nature of OSS they would eventually get implemented.

      Many of us here are good at Linux and don't need or want to run Windows anymore. Especially with all this talk lately about viruses and IE vulnerabilities.

      Please don't let this p
  • by mikefe ( 98074 ) <mfedyk@mike[ ]yk.com ['fed' in gap]> on Friday November 05, 2004 @08:39PM (#10739430) Homepage
    This is exactly why QT should not be used in an OSS project. If you want to get real penetration into the desktop today, you have to work on windows. Mozilla knows this, Open Office knows this.

    It's really that simple.

    • Quoting from the mailing list [sourceforge.net] on SF: The reason for it not being compilable for Windows is the fact that Qt is not available for Windows in any GPL compatible version and the license of the GPL:d TOra specifically prohibits it from being linked with the commercial versions of Qt. The reason for this is that previously I and now Quest does not want it to interfere with out commercial products.
      This is the author's decision, not a limit imposed by the Qt's license. Qt can very well be used in OSS p
      • You need to read the Qt Commercial License. Apps originally developed with the GPL Qt can't use the Commercial Qt after the fact.

        • The Qt Commercial license isnt quite that restrictive. It says that any application developed by the licensee of Qt-Commerial using the Free edition must be licensed under the GPL. That license has problems in other cases, but I dont see any restrictions relevant here.
          • It's that you can't take an application, developed under the GPL using the Open Source version, and then close the source once you've bought the commercial version.

            That said, I still think Qt is unsuitable/useless for cross-platform OSS development because anyone wanting to compile for windows (including every one of your windows developlers) must have a pricey commercial Qt license. One person who packages binaries every now and then is one thing, but an involved Windows user and developer community is an

  • Quest Blows (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Unoti ( 731964 ) on Friday November 05, 2004 @09:52PM (#10739790) Journal
    Quest sucks. They've been doing everything they can to block competition in their market. After buying up their competitors, at least SQLNavigator, now they buy the leading open source maintainer. Did you notice the price for Toad skyrocket a short time after they bought SQLNavigator?

    And what have their customers gotten in return? Higher prices (a lot higher) and software bloat.

    Have you ever tried to buy a copy of TOAD? The pricing is massive-- it's way more expensive than a copy of Microsoft Office, and does a lot less. They're one of the few software companies that bug me as much as RealNetworks.

  • It's Qt with a small t, pronounced "cute". Off-topic, for which I apologise, but these things need to get pointed out I suppose or none of us would ever learn.
  • ... and unfortunately we're all developing on XP machines (although I run a slackware virtual machine). I'm currently rewriting TOra in C# to be released under some sort of GPL type license, with additional support for different database implementations (only MYSQL right at the moment, SQL Server already comes with Query Analyzer). Any helpful suggestions/questions/comments/hate mail (for using C#) can be forwarded on to me. Right now I've only got the SQL window and result set windows operational, but i

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