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Programming Software IT Linux Technology

Gambas 1.0 Release Candidate Available 260

Posted by Hemos from the getting-ready-for-the-big-time dept.
raindog2 writes "After two and a half years of development, Gambas has become the first Visual Basic-style environment for Linux to enter release candidate status. Anyone who has been frustrated by a lack of production-quality free RAD environments should give it a try."
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Gambas 1.0 Release Candidate Available More

Gambas 1.0 Release Candidate Available

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  • No mono or dotgnu? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by gtrubetskoy ( 734033 ) *
    Kinda curious why they don't base it on mono and/or dotgnu but have their own interpreter.

  • I sense... (Score:5, Funny)

    by palad1 ( 571416 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @10:53AM (#10631460)

    A great disturbance in the Force.
    It was like a million voices crying out in unison, then suddenly silenced.

    Thank god the project page is already slashdotted.

    • I submitted it to Developers, having no idea it would end up on the main page. Thank god(s) I didn't link to the Gambas wiki on my company's colo box (which is getting a lot of traffic now anyway.)
      • I had the oppportunity to read more about the project page, looks like good work, although I don't really understand /agree with the choosen language : a VB clone.

  • Hmmmm (Score:5, Interesting)

    by black6host ( 469985 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @10:54AM (#10631473)
    Kylix doesn't count? Although the *free* version did have some limitations it was quite possible to develop software in a RAD based environment using Kylix.

    Granted, neither version (free or pay) took off quite the way some would have liked but all the same, let's give credit where credit is due.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Hmmmm (Score:3, Interesting)

      by landoltjp ( 676315 )
      I thought Kylix was a brilliant IDE, but I'm biased because I am a long-time Delphi developer.

      Even if Borland, in its decision (?) to discontinue support or development of Kylix, decides to distribute it as Open Source, I don't think that there would then be a huge surge in community support of the product. The primary reason for this is that the IDE, Component libraries, and Supoprted language is Object Pascal, and there's not much Pascal coding done on Linux these days.

      Mind you, Kylix would be a gr

    • Re:Hmmmm (Score:3, Interesting)

      by byolinux ( 535260 ) *
      Was Kylix actually free software [gnu.org]? I've just tried to find a copy on their website, and although there's an 'Open' version, it doesn't seem to be free software, just a gratis download.

      However, things may have changed.

      • Re:Hmmmm (Score:2, Informative)

        by thedarkstorm ( 468783 )
        Yes it was and is Free Software. However with the Open version you are required to GPL any software you compile with it. they have a dual license model, very similar to mySQL

    • You might have been able to legally download Kylix without paying for it (if you filled out a form, etc...) but it wasn't free software.

      Gambas could pretty much be included with any Linux distribution (even Debian...) meaning that after 15 years, computer neophytes could once again be exposed to programming in a simple, non-threatening way without having to go and buy something extra.

      I think I'm as excited by that prospect as by the ability to easily port my clients' VB projects.

      • Re:Hmmmm (Score:3, Informative)

        by aled ( 228417 )
        And what makes you think you can port any VB projects. Let me blow your dream (I love this part :-).
        From the FAQ:

        Is Gambas compatible with Visual Basic?

        No, and it will never be!

        Fortunately, there are many similarities, but do not expect to take your old Visual Basic code and run it on Gambas without any change.

        You can go the troubleshooting page to find some examples of the differences between the two languages.

        See also: Differences from VB

        • Re:Hmmmm (Score:4, Interesting)

          by raindog2 ( 91790 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @01:24PM (#10633106) Homepage
          There will obviously be custom proprietary components used in VB projects that are difficult to duplicate in Gambas and under Linux, but I'm on my third major VB application port right now and it's really been a piece of cake so far, knock on wood. Being able to run any Linux program on a pipe makes it easier than you'd imagine to duplicate some pretty esoteric functionality provided by random third-party VB controls.

          Those who don't think they're up to the porting can always wait for KBasic, which will not be free software but it'll still be pretty cheap (and, it claims, 100% VB compatible.)
    • Free in the sense of money is not important.
      You could always have a "trial" copy, and start to pay, once you have actual work.

      Free in the sense of freedom is more relevant. Other important issues arise. For example, a free tool is more useful with source code, because it can be in many cases a huge functional example of your development domain, such as Eclipse, or Tomcat have been for me.
      Free as in freedom is important for people that care about freedom, too. I happen to be one of them.
      So, no, Kylix doesn'
    • In my experience, Kylix could have been a huge success, but was crippled (free version). When the first version came out, I immediately tried it out, having recently done a lot of work with Borland C++.

      I was extremely disspointed with the problems I faced with installing it on my old RH system.

      I have NOT tried Gambas yet, but from the screenshots/information on the page, it appears there are a ton of toolbox objects to use/program with.

      Gambas, Rock on!

  • Wow (Score:5, Informative)

    by linux_warp ( 187395 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @10:55AM (#10631482) Homepage
    This actually looks like a very impressive and well put together program. The screenshot looks great (http://gambas.sourceforge.net/2004-09-06.png).

    And according to their website "As the graphical user interface is implemented as a component, Gambas will be able to be independent of any toolkit ! You will be able to write a program, and choose the toolkit later : GTK+, Qt, etc." - so there is no toolkit bias either which is a big bonus.

    • Re:Wow (Score:2)

      by Tim C ( 15259 )
      The screenshot looks like an explosion in a window factory to me...

  • Fast (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Daengbo ( 523424 ) <daengbo&gmail,com> on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @10:56AM (#10631495) Homepage Journal
    Wow this project has matured fast. I stumbled on it ??a year and a half ago?? when it was still in its infancy. Every once in a while I visit it, expecting it to be dead like so many other projects that I try to follow, but I am always suprised by new material on the front pages.

    Congrats to the Gambas developers for being such work horses! I am impressed.

  • Scripting? (Score:3, Funny)

    by aero6dof ( 415422 ) <aero6dof@yahoo.com> on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @10:56AM (#10631497) Homepage
    Anyone who has been frustrated by a lack of production-quality free RAD environments

    Nope, I have many available RAD environments which lack production-quality.

    But seriously, what about Ruby, Python, and Perl. It seems like there have been plenty of RAD environments available for free.

    • Re:Scripting? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by palndron ( 37455 )
      Those are languages, this is a language + rad environment.

      Just out of curiosity, what are these rad environments for these languages?

      • Re:Scripting? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Joe Tie. ( 567096 )
        For python, one of my favorites has always been Boa. It's starting to show it's age in Linux though, using a version of WxWidgets best compiled to use gtk1.

  • Kylix (Score:4, Informative)

    by tverbeek ( 457094 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @10:57AM (#10631508) Homepage
    Gambas has become the first Visual Basic-style environment for Linux to enter release candidate status.

    Unless you count Kylix. It uses Pascal or C++ instead of Basic, but it's definitely a VB-style environment.

  • My wish... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bogaboga ( 793279 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:00AM (#10631529)
    ...is that someone experienced now does the right thing; that is: Slap a database engine onto Gambas, put everything including documentation, examples of sample code for particular problems, PDF creation on the fly using available tools and all dependencies required into ONE application or file. Various components to be installed can be selected at installation time. Then announce that they have M$ Access killer called GambasDB. I will then immediately jump onto the band wagon. I wonder why it has not happened before.
    • actually, I'm currently taking over support for an Access application so right now I'd just like to see Access killed. It is to application development what dog shit is to sandwich fillings.

      (Would be a very good idea to get smaller businesses to look at Linux too.)

    • You won't have the Access killer until something also runs on Windows.

      Maybe this will, or can run under cygwin or something?

    • The source code is available. You can do this yourself. When you're done, you'll be the "someone experienced" and will have exactly what you need to boot!
    • Firebird [sf.net] is an excelent choice for an Access killer. Just needs a nice graphical frontend for final users on it.

    • Re:My wish... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by raindog2 ( 91790 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @01:31PM (#10633174) Homepage
      There's no reporting engine yet, though people are working on one, but one of its database drivers is for an embedded, serverless database (SQLite), and I think it's only a matter of time before someone does what you describe.

      I am pretty sure only a couple hundred people had ever heard of Gambas before today, but that has changed. Of course the site is toast but maybe some of them will remember and look again tomorrow...

  • Glade? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rwebb ( 732790 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:04AM (#10631577)
    What about the Glade [gnome.org] toolkit? Granted, it's not "Visual Basic" but it does help take care of the donkey work in getting the user interface setup.

  • What about the Visual Editor project on Eclipse? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ikeya ( 7401 ) <dave@NosPAm.kuck.net> on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:04AM (#10631578) Homepage
    Maybe the Visual Editor isn't in release status? (I think it is, but I'm not sure.) But this definately isn't the only nor the first visual editor project. Check it out if you're interested in a RAD platform with graphical elements very similar to Visual Basic, etc. It uses Java and not BASIC, but I don't see that as a bad thing.
    Oh yeah... it's also open source.

    The Eclipse Visual Editor Project [eclipse.org]

  • Screenshots. (Score:3, Informative)

    by haeger ( 85819 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:05AM (#10631586)
    HERE [sourceforge.net].

    Seems to be the most popular thing about any new release, even though most claim to prefer a CLI.

    .haeger

  • Page won't load (Score:3, Insightful)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:06AM (#10631599) Journal
    Anyone have some details on this? How visual basic-like is it? Any .NET/mono integration? Cross-compilation features?

    Something for linux that's close enough to VB to make porting effortless would be a dream come true, and our company could move away from MSFT. Of course, some customers will always wan't VB clients and SQL Server backends, because they're asshats.

    The free edition of Sybase for linux perked eyebrows among the PHB's around here, and I was actually give time to set a box up to prove that it could, indeed be a drop in replacement for a SQL Server backend, and I impressed them somewhat showing how much easier it would be to maintain over a crappy dial-up connection..

    Now it's all these bazillion client apps I want rid of. We're looking hard at mono and C# for new development, but we have oodles of legacy VB6 code to maintain, and nowhere near the manpower to port all of it. Hell, we don't even have time to port it to .NET yet. By we I mean me since I have no real help here. Fuck it, I haven't even had time to replace all the old RDO code in a lot of the crap.

    Someone post some details. Could Sybase+gambas be a drop-in replacement for VB6+SQL Server?

    • Re:Page won't load (Score:5, Informative)

      by raindog2 ( 91790 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:27AM (#10631793) Homepage
      I'm surprised it got slashdotted so fast. Anyway, it compiles to its own pseudo-code not unlike the first 3 or 4 revisions of VB.... nothing saying someone couldn't write a compiler from that pseudo-code to CLR/Mono or Parrot or the JVM, but no one's really started talking about that seriously yet.

      The language is about as strict as VB is when you use Option Explicit, and wasn't built as a clone of VB, so while we have a Perl script to convert form layouts over (which I wrote, and which I will integrate with the IDE when I finish my PCRE component for Gambas soon) converting code is still a manual process, and there are a lot of differences though it's still BASIC. I will continue to work on conversion tools, though.

      Finally, there is no FreeTDS (Sybase/MSSQL) database driver yet, but I expect that to follow eventually.... I would be writing one myself except I keep moving people off of MSSQL and Sybase and onto MySQL.

      I've only contributed a little code to Gambas, I just maintain Mandrake packages and the wiki from which the documentation is generated.

  • VB-style GUI design (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PiGuy ( 531424 ) <[ude.ipw] [ta] [lerriuqs]> on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:08AM (#10631625) Homepage

    Unfortunately, this IDE seems to suffer from the same horrible method of GUI design as VB (judging from the screenshot), whereby one draws components on a form, thus specifying the widgets' absolute coordinates. This is all good and well until you decide to make the form resizable. Then all hell breaks loose: none of the widgets move unless you explicitly change their coordinates. I was forced to write my own geometry manager, in VB, to overcome this problem in a clean way.

    Otherwise, this looks like a very good product for a company looking to switch to Unix, but wanting to retain compatibility with all their VB scripts (like the one I work at). Of course, porting the scripts to a better language (*cough*Python*cough*) would be the best solution, but management just won't hear of it :/.

    • Re:VB-style GUI design (Score:5, Informative)

      by sapped ( 208174 ) <mlangenhoven.yahoo@com> on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:17AM (#10631708)
      This is all good and well until you decide to make the form resizable. Then all hell breaks loose: none of the widgets move unless you explicitly change their coordinates.

      It has been some time since I last used VB, but I seem to recall (Delphi definately has this) that you could "tie" components to the form so that they would grow and shrink as the form resizes. You could also specify upper and lower limits for the width and height of each component you placed on the form. I found the Delphi IDE to be far superior to anything found on the Linux front. Now, if only we could convince the Borland idiots not to annoy the developers with their mindless management style then we might have something going again.
    • I don't know what version of VB you were using, but at least since Visual Studio.NET 2002, you can fix the component's coordinates and/or size to the form's dimensions.
    • Recent Gambas versions do have container widgets that automatically arrange their children, a la Java /Tk/Gtk/etc. I do still find myself putting code in the resize event pretty often though.

    • Re:VB-style GUI design (Score:5, Informative)

      by kraut ( 2788 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:59AM (#10632145)
      http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/index.htm - automagically convert VB to Python. Haven't tried it, since I haven't touched VB for years, but it could be a dream come true ;)

    • I am a VB developer (legacy support). While, that is a fairly major problem, that is NOT the critical stop gap for this product. This is amazing, because they have complete control over the code. If it is a problem, I'm sure you could write a bug up and submit it...It will most likely be fixed. This would NEVER be possible with the real VB.

      On the other hand this might be a fantastic opportunity for Linux and even Open Source. VB has always been an extremely easy language to learn and utilize. Simply
  • component based development was the important reason for VB's survival. Before we get onto the robustness jokes, is there a plan to implement something similar ? I did RTFA but the site is crawling under /. attack currently.

  • Interesting (Score:5, Funny)

    by gustgr ( 695173 ) <gustgr&gmail,com> on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:09AM (#10631634)
    In portuguese the word gambá means skunk :-) Well, it is VB-like after all.
  • If you prefer Pascal [freepascal.org], take a look at Lazarus [freepascal.org].

    Still, I continue to think that Glade [gnome.org], and especially libglade [gnome.org], are the way to go in term of separations of UI and code.

  • Totally misread that summary.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:22AM (#10631763)
    Anyone who has been frustrated by a lack of production-quality free RAD environments...

    Production-quality free?

    No, production quality is good.... Must be something else. Maybe they mis-hyphenated?

    Production quality-free?

    Argh....

  • VB (Score:5, Insightful)

    by icebattle ( 638355 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:22AM (#10631764)
    The thing I always liked about VB was that it enabled my boss to get his 12-year-old to write an app that almost did something useful. Then he installed it and required everyone to use it. When it failed because of poor file locking, arbitrary array limit choices (try 53) and other CS101 gambits, it became my problem (with no windows background) to fix.

    Do we really need a VB clone in linuxland?

    • Re:VB (Score:5, Insightful)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:37AM (#10631883) Journal
      Yes.

      You can write good code in VB, only elitist morons hear the word "BASIC" and think it's beneath them.

      We have tons and tons of VB code that we have no time, or really need, to port.

      High level languages are the future. People who think if it isn't written in C or ASM will be left in the past.

      The easier it is to write, the easier it is to maintain, and the easier it is to use good code form and techniques. It doesn't mean any idiot can fire it up and write good code, writing good code is a skill. Just like anyone can learn to speak english, but it doesn't make them a good poet or author.

      The problem is your boss's 12 year old kid, not the language. Be thankful he didn't write his dogshit code in FORTRAN, COBOL or C, using the most obscure syntax he could because it made him feel smarter. I've had to maintain/port plenty of that crap and it's no fun at all.

      • Re:VB (Score:4, Insightful)

        by the_weasel ( 323320 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @12:09PM (#10632278) Homepage
        Actually, I would even go further and say the problem was his boss. I have pretty clear memories of being that 12 year old kid (18 years ago!), and writing my first software applications.

        They were as good as could be expected, but no one in their right mind would have employed them in a real environment.

        Congratulations to the 12 year old for doing something other than wtching tv and playing games.....
    • When it failed because of poor file locking, arbitrary array limit choices (try 53) and other CS101 gambits, it became my problem (with no windows background) to fix.

      Your boss handed you a lifetime-employment card and you're bitching?

      Do we really need a VB clone in linuxland?

      You do not. I do not have my retirement worked out yet, and I welcome such a clone with open arms.

  • Windows support? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by voice of unreason ( 231784 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @11:23AM (#10631766)
    I can't read the articles due to slashdotting, but I was wondering, does anyone know if there are plans for a Windows version? I know this is intended to bring RAD design to Linux, but I think a lot of Windows users would be attracted to a free, open source alternative to Visual Basic, particularly considering how expensive .Net tools can be.

    • Re:Windows support? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by zsau ( 266209 )
      It's toolkit can be KDE-based, so I imagine it's possible to get it running on Windowns under Cygwin. That probably isn't what you want to hear, but it might be a starting point...
  • I've tried GAMBAS (Gambas Almost Means Basic) a few times in the past and while it had potential, it was far from "production quality". I'm glad to see that development is active and I plan on giving it another shot. I'm not really a fan of Visual Basic myself, but I know a ton of VB programmers who won't make the switch simply because there isn't an viable equivalent. I think projects like this are especially important, because I beleive if you can get the developer market, the user market will follow the
  • Although I have grown to absolutely love the Zend IDE for php programming and design.

    I really hope that they are doing their implimentation right instead of the mess that VB has become over the years.

    It's silly that back in VB4.0 I could write an app that does everything needed and fit it and the dll's on a floppy. now the dll files take up almost 200 meg for the VB .NET (Although we use 6.0 here as .NET is bloated compared to it.)

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • RAD? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Anyone who has been frustrated by a lack of production-quality free RAD environments should give it a try.

    Personally I prefer Bodacious eviroments over Rad ones!
  • The VB UI was just one window, with toolboxes. Sure these were detachable, but they were not by default.

    This thing looks like the old Gimp 1.x UI monstrosity, with 29340284309 windows everywhere.

    • About 20 versions ago I made an unofficial MDI version of the Gambas interface, and a new official MDI version is planned for the 1.1 series (like the old kernel numbering scheme, 1.odd will be development and 1.even will be stable.)

      For what it's worth, it didn't take much coding at all (though I didn't do docking or any of that cool stuff), and I'm looking forward to using an MDI version again.

      Just for posterity, here is my MDI hack [kudla.org]. It long since stopped working with current Gambas releases due to chan

  • Qt Designer (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Un pobre guey ( 593801 )
    Qt Designer [trolltech.com] is about as easy to use as VB, but has a decent programming language attached to it, is free even on Windows [prenhall.com], and is multiplatform.

    Beat that.

  • Is it just me? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jsebrech ( 525647 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @12:06PM (#10632248)
    Is it just me or is nobody noticing here that the only thing this gambas thing does that no other IDE (like kdevelop) hasn't yet is offer a basic-like language? I mean seriously, other than the basic thing what does this thing do that's so new?

    I'd rather not have basic available to learn to program in. It makes it too easy to avoid learning proper programming practices, and it damaged my ability to code for a long time.
  • Hello linux, welcome to 1992.....

    Seriously , RAD is important to alot of development, and if this is the first notable applicationf ro RAD, then linux has a ways to go.

  • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Now when that goes cross platform (Score:3, Interesting)

    by digitalgimpus ( 468277 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @01:28PM (#10633148) Homepage
    Other languages should be scared.

    VB and Windows are popular because they are easy and quick.

    If I could use this to easily write/compile (for free), software tha tran on Linux, Windows, and Mac...

    guess who would unleash a new programing era?

    The key here is cross platform. Like RealBasic, but free.

    Mozilla Firefox built a lot off of that.

    Organizations love standardization. Netscape offered that. Now Mozilla Offers that. But VB keeps them in windows.

    remove VB...

    and Linux has disarmed another problem attempting to kill it.

  • Lack of RAD? (Score:3, Informative)

    by smcdow ( 114828 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @01:55PM (#10633456) Homepage
    Anyone who has been frustrated by a lack of production-quality free RAD environments should give it a try.

    Never been frustrated. Perl's been around for a long time.

  • Nice, but is VB the proper model for apps? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by master_p ( 608214 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @02:43PM (#10634074)
    Visual Basic, until version 6, had a very horrible architecture: business logic was embedded in forms. VB6 does not follow the MVC pattern, and it does not have the proper constructs to implement that manually.

    Furthermore, in a world that has Java + Eclipse, Qt + Qt Designer/KDeveloper, why should I use VB6? it maybe easier in the beginning, but in the long run, it is a nightmare, especially for big distributed projects.

    I think Gambas is about 5 years late, to say the least.
    • Of course, Gambas is not VB6. Forms and the classes containing their business logic are separate, though you can have the IDE hide that fact from the user.

      I would also say that anyone currently using C++ and thinking "hey, this is easy enough" is really not the target audience for any kind of BASIC RAD environment. I have to admit that I wish there were something like Gambas only with Perl (and no, Qt Designer and PerlQt don't count... I am the author of one of the more prominent PerlQt projects out ther
      • But how am I gonna write apps based on the MVC pattern with Gambas? I saw no support for class events, for example. Or the ability to define my own callbacks in classes. In fact, it is only the forms that have callbacks.

        I think that any non-MVC GUI app quickly becomes very difficult to maintain.

        The Gambas Wiki states that Gambas is not VB, but it is a variant of Basic. Well, VB7 is also a Basic variant, but I can do pretty much what I want, including MVC patterns.
  • If they want to dominate the market, they must make it CROSS-PLATFORM.

    So far I haven't seen any cross-platform RAD tool. Except Delphi/Kylix, rest in peace.

  • Gorm -- the GNUstep GUI builder... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by borgheron ( 172546 ) on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @03:54PM (#10635039) Homepage Journal
    Uh... we've had a GUI builder which is tons better than glade for the last two years. :)

    I should know.. I wrote it.

    http://www.gnustep.org

    GJC

  • Two words: Killer Application (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Tuesday October 26, 2004 @05:57PM (#10636412)
    Rant and hiss all you want. This application has the potential to move an entire generation of mid-40ish "Windows and VB4 still works for me" people - who are basically stating the truth - to Linux / OSS enviroments.
    And no Blahblah about Eclipse Basic being somewhere close to RAD or QTDevelop being a sort-of half way kinda RAD tool and "whats all the excitement about, I only need Perl and a few bazillion extra libs and dependency resoltions to write nice TK-Apps that are ugly as hell" will change that.

    As for me, I'm sold. Congratulations to the Gambas team.

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