Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Linux Business Software Linux

Linux Takes On Automotive Apps 125

Posted by timothy from the things-that-work dept.
loconet writes "Linux Devices has released an article about Metrowerks setting out to drive Linux further into the automotive telematics market by launching what it calls "Automotive Grade Linux," a version of Linux enhanced with non-traditional features to address the specific requirements of automotive telematics."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Linux Takes On Automotive Apps More

Linux Takes On Automotive Apps

Comments Filter:

  • Errors (Score:5, Funny)

    by niteice ( 793961 ) <icefragment@gmail.com> on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:21PM (#10560364) Journal
    Kernel Panic: Your engine a splode!

  • HA! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Jozer99 ( 693146 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:28PM (#10560407)
    Your Corola has been rooted!

  • Awesome (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:29PM (#10560409)
    Now I can totally play Quake while I'm driving.

    • Re:Awesome (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Richard Dick Head ( 803293 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @08:04PM (#10560636) Homepage Journal
      Well I don't know about Quake, but running a racer game with The Kernel reading your steering wheel and pedal movements, and outputing scenery to some flat panels pasted on your windows would be WAY cool. Then just so you don't have to take em off, use pwnboard cameras to give you a 360 FOV through the front.

      Can you say Penguin Power bumper sticker? :D

  • Let's hope it's not Gentoo! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:29PM (#10560410)
    "Only 17 days left until we can leave hon, I'm just compiling starter.so"

  • Something new? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by erick99 ( 743982 ) <homerun@gmail.com> on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:30PM (#10560415)
    I hadn't heard of Automotive Telematics before, nor did I know it was a $14 billion market and, even more surprising (to me), Microsoft has a version of CE that was released in 2002 and updated in 2003 that is specifically for that market. Well, you learn something new everyday within the hallowed halls of SlashDot. That said, I would think that Linux would be an ideal platform for this because it does meet the requirements for telematics as set forth in the article. I wonder how M$ will respond? Or, is it a big enough pie for everyone to have a slice?
    • There is no pie big enough for everyone to have a slice, if "everyone" contains Microsoft - at least, not in Microsoft's view. In their view, if they're in the game, everyone else must be forced out of the market.
    • This puts the tired old analogy "If the Windows OS was a car..etc etc" in a whole new light.

      Now..I wonder if Bill would drive a car powered by Windows CE..

      I'd pay good money to see an automobile BSOD while careening around a hairpin corner at 100MPH+
    • Microsoft and IBM were both at conferences in Detroit about 4 years ago. So I would call this more a response by Linux since MS has a big head start.

      That being said, these OSes will only ever make it into entertainment products. They will never make it into functional modules like power seats, body controllers(alarm, lights, lock, etc.), airbags, engin controllers, ABS, security, etc...
      • From experience, Linux (a heavily, heavily modified version) might make it into some of the more complex body modules, but probably one of the RT versions that basically runs Linux as a RT job under (IIRC) VxWorks.

        But yeah, I'm not expecting to see Linux in an engine controller any time soon - no one trusts it enough.

      • They don't need to go into something like airbags. That's an ASIC environment all the way. What they will do is provide an interface for updating the ASIC EPROM code base for things like Engine Crontrolers.

        I'm a lot worried that OnStar will doggedly assume that:

        • Their competitors are Automotive companies and not Software Industry participants
        • Refuse to consider something this flexible because it will add $2 to each vehicle.

        Subsequently they will find themselves competing with a product that has them c

        • > But Automotive companies don't think that way.

          That would be because they want to make profit. The base model of most non-luxury cars sells at a slight loss. The manufacturer hopes to make more then that money up by getting people to buy extra options and features. (This would also be why trucks, SUVs, and luxury cars have gotten more development attention recently).

    • Most likely MS will enter that world in about a year. They will want to somehow tie this back to their media center. I suspect that all these companies that are using MS will be wiped out in under a year due to this being a fairly new field (digital vs. analog).
    • It is obvious you have not suffered from driving a Citroen. It is the flagship of Automotive Windows with Fiat to follow soon. Which is a pity as I used to be a fan of Citroen until I had to suffer one of these Windows driven piles of poo for 2 days during my last holidays.

  • One problem: (Score:2, Insightful)

    by comwiz56 ( 447651 )
    How many car manufacturers are going to be putting some untested software into cars. Not only from a safety/reliability standpoint, but they also probably want to keep the locks closed on access to the software, and open source wouldn't work with this model.

    • Re:One problem: (Score:5, Insightful)

      by IamGarageGuy 2 ( 687655 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:38PM (#10560476) Journal
      Let's not be too alarmist here. This is the automotive market here, bad press for them is the deathnell of a product. If anybody is going to test, retest and test again it will be them. I am not a fanboy but I know that this is a market segment that relies heavily on reliable products and will spend untold millions if not billions just on testing alone.
      • Not alarmist ? this is fscking scary!

        Look, in france last week someone's speed "controler" (the thing used to ensure you don't go faster than a given speed) got totally crazy, and he had to drive at more than 200km/h for 30 minutes because the thing simply couldn't stop. At the same time, breaks stopped working and he couldn't do anything but turn left or right. The manufacturer says it's totally impossible that all those things happened at the same time. But several persons contacted the newspapers and

        • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

          by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @09:22PM (#10561037)
          Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • You've obviously never worked for the auto industry. They don't really like to spend money. A whole duplicate copy of an airbag module that might cost 40 bucks from the supplier? Yeah, right.

            But for the most part, safety-critical systems, although not redundant, do have watchdogs and similar built in. Its better than nothing.
        • This is almost support enough for why this software SHOULD be open. Much more exposure would ensure less error.
        • Okay.. First off:

          That story about the guy racing along the highway is dumb, and probably fake. The guy probably made it up. There are many many ways to stop a car, and this guy obviously didn't try enough

          Second off: Brakes and steering are _not_ computer controlled, especially on your father's Focus. The Focus is the bottom-of-the-barrel Ford product in the US. All of the lights in the car will blink if the engine stalls, and the power assist to the steering and brakes won't work anymore (they're mech
    • they would preferably test the software themselfs, no matter where it came from.

      (talking about the software doing the telematics stuff.. other not that important stuff might be handled by anything.. hell, even windows... go bmw)

    • The latest BMW flagship's "car control system" is being shitted upon by most test drivers for good reason.

      IIRC, BMW semi-produced a Discovery Channel production which covered the creation of this car.

      Myself, I'd buy a 350 HP cool-looking, slit-window Chrysler fordor and smoke that Eurotrash machine. This is especially important for technology since all the Chrysler guys have to do is add two more valves to make the engine truly competitive with the Japanese. The HEMI is still running with only two valv
      • Another pair of valves per cylinder would be a good trick. The HEMI is a pushrod engine, not OHC.

        • Another pair of valves per cylinder would be a good trick. The HEMI is a pushrod engine, not OHC.

          OK, lets learn what is the difference between the two. Two or three valves per cylinder are better (more efficient?) because they allow more air intake as compared to the total cylinder head available space. OHC vs. OHV, how does it work?

          Could the latest HEMI design be 4-valved to produce a Ferrari-killing 650HP? No problem, but Ford will probably have an answer. Personally, I think that Ford and Chrysl

          • Re:One problem: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by i.r.id10t ( 595143 )
            Porsche hasn't had a HP or top speed advantage for a long time. Heck, I know a few people who run SSCA events in 356s (75-90hp max from factory) and actually turn in better times than many much newer cars from many different manufacturers. Its all about the handling.

          • Re:One problem: (Score:4, Informative)

            by barzok ( 26681 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @09:53PM (#10561214)
            OK, lets learn what is the difference between the two. Two or three valves per cylinder are better (more efficient?) because they allow more air intake as compared to the total cylinder head available space. OHC vs. OHV, how does it work?
            On the off chance that this isn't a troll...

            More valves = more air. More air coming in means more efficient combustion, generally.

            All modern automobile engines I'm aware of (with the exception of Mazda's rotary) are OHV.

            "Pushrod" engines have the camshaft in the bottom of the V of a V-type engine, just above the crankshaft, and driven by a chain off the crankshaft. The camshaft pushes on rods, which then push levers (rocker arms) which operate the valves. This wastes a lot of energy, and generally is limited on the RPMs (unless you're building race engines). To get more than 2 valves per cylinder, you'd need a lot more pushrods and lobes on the cams (which there isn't room for), or some extra levers/paddles over the valves to split the force of the pushrod. But that can flex, and flex is bad. And you'll waste more energy regardless.

            An Overhead Cam engine has the camshafts directly above the valves, no pushrods. To add a second pair of valves, move the first set to the side, along with their camshaft, and put a second set right next to them. These engines are much easier to run at high RPMs.

            Could the latest HEMI design be 4-valved to produce a Ferrari-killing 650HP?
            Well, the true HEMI design from the '50s and '60s can do it with 2 valves per cylinder. The new one requires more than '60s knowledge to do it, due to all the computer controls which haven't been cracked yet. The engine hasn't been picked over by the shadetree "hackers" yet. And can it do it and still meet emissions?

            • No, not a troll.

              I used to buy Hondas, then I bought American (noisy Saturn).

              Now that the American car manufacturers have decided to truly kick the ass of BMW and the other German manufacturers, all bets are off.

              The latest big-engined Chryslers probably have no challenge from the big BMWs.
        • The problem isn't that it uses pushrods. It would be a neat trick to put extra valves in ANY hemi shaped chamber. Most 4-valve engines are pentroof designs.

      • Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks BMWs are going to shit. Ever since the newest designs came out, I thought they looked really cheap. I guess it's not just looks. And whoever decided to use Win CE for the car controls needs to be strapped into a BMW with faulty i-drive and sent plummeting into a river.

        • BMW's have always looked purposeful. Chrysler's latest designs (which are also German-based because they are partially owned by Daimler) just looks nasty with its slit window presentation and horsepower. Much cooler than a SUV, and the presentation is very good.
          • Chrysler is not partially owned by Daimler. It's completely owned by Daimler. And it's not a "partnership" like Schrempp originally said it was going to be, they bought Chrysler and have been treating the company that way.
    • Thousands upon thousands of hours of pre-release testing is done on cars, but that doesn't mean there aren't problems upon release. BMW's iDrive system had several problems after the new 7-series was released (IIRC, a "simplified" version was offered for the 5-series), and I knoew a few Dodge techs who had cars in with under 1000 miles on them due to issues with Chrysler's MDS (Multi-Displacement System) on the HEMI (shuts off 2-4 cylinders while cruising to save gas).
    • I would say that using Linux in a car, can't be any worse than using Windows CE [thaivisa.com] in a car. Personally for me, the less technology in a car, all the better.

  • Competition (Score:4, Funny)

    by vijaya_chandra ( 618284 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:31PM (#10560425)
    Hope linux'd compete well against ms in this field and save us avoiding those microsoft cars' jokes [vbrad.com] from becoming a reality

  • Strange article (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Geoffreyerffoeg ( 729040 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:32PM (#10560430)
    More than half of words were buzzwords or acronyms.

    Anyway, why exactly do you need a PowerPC 603e and two USB ports for..uh..diagnosing cars? Seems to me that the hardware is a bit overkill, and an embedded direct solution might function a little better by avoiding the overhead of simply running Linux. Don't get me wrong; Linux is great for full-powered machines, but this doesn't need to be full powered.

    • Re:Strange article (Score:5, Informative)

      by erick99 ( 743982 ) <homerun@gmail.com> on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:36PM (#10560470)
      The article states:

      What automotive telematics is not

      Automotive telematics does not include areas of automotive computing that involve powertrain management (such as fuel-injection microcontrollers), or what Metrowerks terms "body/safety/chassis" computing applications. These applications are typically based on proprietary process-based real-time OSes such as QNX, VxWorks, AE, LynxOS and others.

    • Anyway, why exactly do you need a PowerPC 603e and two USB ports for..uh..diagnosing cars?

      The car has a computer onboard. It takes one to know one, so to speak. You have to interface with the onboard diagnostic system to read the trouble codes [obdii.com] it has stored. You can read the codes with a simple tool [midwayautosupply.com]. According to the article, this has nothing to do with diagnostics, though; that was about the only thing the article didn't mention. Way to many buzzwords. The article did mention:

      Call center ser

    • Re:Strange article (Score:3, Interesting)

      by aggieben ( 620937 )
      This area happens to be within the scope of my research, and I think it would be next to impossible to go overboard with the hardware.

      Anyway, why exactly do you need a PowerPC 603e and two USB ports for..uh..diagnosing cars? Seems to me that the hardware is a bit overkill

      Overkill? If anything, the PPC 603e is way undershooting what I think could/should be appropriate for automotive computing. Why not a 3GHz Pentium? I admit I don't know the numbers in terms of converting electrical consumption to gal

      • This area happens to be within the scope of my research, and I think it would be next to impossible to go overboard with the hardware.

        If your research is somehow connected to the auto industry, it sounds like you need to visit Detroit.

        I can think of several applications where having a "full-powered" computer in a car would be useful, not least of which is if you are on an automotive network (which doesn't really exist yet) and the environment requires high-grade encryption or other measures to pro

        • Well I can think of lots of uses for more computing power.
          1 Intergrated IPod like stereo system.
          2 A wifi network connection that would allow you to get the latest weather radar and traffic status.
          3 Improved navigation systems that would connect with desktop trip planing software.
          "A ten-cent change will be discussed for literally hours on high volume platforms, because that $0.10 * 250,000 cars/year = $25,000. You're talking about hardware that will cost significantly more than what's employed today. And the
          • Well I can think of lots of uses for more computing power. 1 Intergrated IPod like stereo system. 2 A wifi network connection that would allow you to get the latest weather radar and traffic status. 3 Improved navigation systems that would connect with desktop trip planing software.

            1. Many newer cars are available with head units that will decode MP3s stored in data format directly from the CD, including support for folders on the disc. (Dodge Magnum, Chevy Equinox, others)

            2. Unfortunately we don'

            • "1. Many newer cars are available with head units that will decode MP3s stored in data format directly from the CD, including support for folders on the disc. (Dodge Magnum, Chevy Equinox, others)"
              I have seen those but I would really like a Hard drive as well. It would be nice if the head unit would download from the cd so I did not have keep bringing it with me. Even better if it would rip any audio CD I put in and connect to CDDB to name it.

              2 and 3 are more near and dear to my heart. I am from Florida an
            • None will require a 3GHz processor as the parent suggests.

              I never suggested that anything required a 3GHz processor. Almost nothing the consumer desktop does, except games (and even then only certain games), requires it. My point was that I couldn't see any good reason not to include hardware that exceeds the requirements, while I pointed out several reasons to do it.
      • I can think of several applications where having a "full-powered" computer in a car would be useful, not least of which is if you are on an automotive network (which doesn't really exist yet) and the environment requires high-grade encryption or other measures to provide the appropriate security. If the automotive network is P2P, lots of resources might be needed to make it work well.

        Cars don't need a friggin P2P network. Here's what they do need: a driver who keeps his eyes on the road and his hands on t

    • They can't be "full-powered". The most powerful processor that's be deemed to have "automotive grade durability" is about 300Mhz.

    • I don't know what's inside of them but Automotive scan tools, which are used to diagnose the one to seven or so computers inside fully-equipped OBD-II cars (PCM, BCM, ABS, SRS, Passive Restraints, Traction Control, the Transmission, Environmental Controls, Cruise Control, and other functions may each have their own computer, all of which communicate through the PCM via the BCM) are little computers in their own right. The most popular model of computer which is used by (at least) Honda, GM, and Chrysler (h

  • "UNIX

    You get in the car and type grep store. You are given a list of 400 7-11's in your area and 50 grocery stores. After picking one and reaching speeds of 200 miles per hour en route, you arrive at the barber shop."

    -- If Operating Systems Drove Your Car to the Store [funnies.paco.to]

    • Re:If Operating Systems Drove Your Car to the Stor (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Suse Linux:

      You start kdestination and type the first few letters of the store name in the dialog box. A list of potential matching destinations pops up. You click on the one you want, and after clicking on the conformation, you arrive instantaneously at the store via the kwormhole daemon.

  • this could be the start of somthing cool (Score:3, Informative)

    by spacerodent ( 790183 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:33PM (#10560439)
    It would be nice if they would start to use Linux in all machines where they wanted to write code with minimum overhead. I know people that have written large ammounts of code for everything from car computer systems to alarm clocks and its usually it some form of basic or C. Imagine if most of these products starting using a simple Linux system where you could reuse all kinds of crazy crap. You could be running toaster timers to clock your laps around a track in your car :D

  • What about TRON? (Score:3, Informative)

    by bigjnsa500 ( 575392 ) <bigjnsa500@yPERIODahoo.com minus punct> on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:40PM (#10560490) Homepage Journal
    Why try and do this with Linux when TRON [wikipedia.org] is already the most widely used operating system for millions of devices? Or is it just the geek factor of knowing you're buying a car with a penguin inside?

    • Re:What about TRON? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by belmolis ( 702863 ) <billposerNO@SPAMalum.mit.edu> on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:56PM (#10560591) Homepage

      One factor may be that TRON is basically a real-time embedded OS, whereas the applications for which automotive Linux is intended are not subject to real-time constraints. I don't know TRON very well, but it is likely easier to write code for a non real-time OS than for TRON. Another factor may have to do with internationalizing textual interfaces. Linux supports Unicode. The last I knew, TRON used only its own competing encoding and did not support Unicode. (I know that TRON fans consider the TRON encoding superior. Even if they are right, Unicode has received much more support outside of Japan so Unicode is probably a better bet for the automotive market.) A non-technical factor may be that TRON is Japanese. There may be a bit of the NIH syndrome at work.

  • One step closer to cars driving instead of humans ...Insert geeky Matrix reference here...
  • This driver is not recognized... and it was the first time Linux crashed something.

  • Telematics (Score:5, Informative)

    by OneNonly ( 55197 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @07:50PM (#10560548)
    Was expecting this device / software to be for general control of car systems (engine performance, monitoring etc) but from here:

    http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6531324140.html

    What is "telematics"?


    Telematics is a fairly new word sometimes defined as the combination of telecommunications and computing, or, alternatively, "telemetry" (radio-based instrumentation) and "informatics" (information management using statistics and computers).

    Automotive telematics, then, is the application of telematics to the automotive market. Metrowerks lists examples of automotive telematics that include:

    * Call center services such as GM OnStar
    * In-car navigation and guidance systems
    * Car/cellphone integration (for example, for hands-free operation through the radio and a dash-mounted microphone)
    * XM radio and Becker Online Pro
    * Fleet management systems such as Qualcomm Omnitracs



    What automotive telematics is not

    Automotive telematics does not include areas of automotive computing that involve powertrain management (such as fuel-injection microcontrollers), or what Metrowerks terms "body/safety/chassis" computing applications. These applications are typically based on proprietary process-based real-time OSes such as QNX, VxWorks, AE, LynxOS and others.
  • ... 5 minutes after turning on the car, it would rev to the max but it would run at only 40km/h, until you found out your car was exploited by some script kiddie.

    But that would be because of the third party radio you're using.

  • Gentoo Automotive (Score:3, Funny)

    by ortcutt ( 711694 ) on Monday October 18, 2004 @08:20PM (#10560743)
    You get your car home and wait 2 days for "emerge system" to finish.

  • Multiple versions (Score:4, Funny)

    by Syberghost ( 10557 ) <syberghost@@@syberghost...com> on Monday October 18, 2004 @08:41PM (#10560848)
    Gentoo: when you receive the car, you have to push the "compile" button and wait two days to drive it.

    Every time you change the oil you must do this again.

    Contribute yours!
    • Gentoo: when you receive the car, you have to push the "compile" button and wait two days to drive it.

      Only on a Ford econo-car. "Touring Sedans" will take only one day, sports cars will take 8 hours, and six-figure Italian cars will do it in 3. At the start of every Formula 1 race, we'll have a 15-second waiting period while the stripped-down versions are compiled.

      steve
  • # apt-get upgrade spare-tire

    the following packages will be REMOVED:
    -donut spare tire
    the following will be INSTALLED:
    -full size spare tire

    [downloading full-size-spare-tire]....[done]
    Removing donut spare tire...
    Installing full size spare tire...

    # apt-get install power-locks
    Package power-locks is part of package: power-group

    # apt-get install power-group ...
  • The press release keeps talking about their addition of real-time features added to Linux--RTAI, RTLinux, MontaVista, etc, not mentioned.

    What are the development, licensing, etc, issues here?
  • The development package that they are offering it for appears to be the $5000 mobileGT Total5200 [freescale.com] Unfortunately a bit-pricey for my homebuilt telematics project- I'll keep using the old laptop.
  • I have been making my living writing software for various automotive applications from BCMs to instrument clusters for about 15 years. I currently do advanced r&d for a tier 1. A recent project was to evaluate and document the major OSes and their applications in the telematics realm. The findings were what we usually find in selecting supporting software. Different OSes work in different situations. There is no clear path and different scenarios require different solutions much like the PC application

Slashdot Top Deals

BLISS is ignorance.

Close