Time to Try a Linux Desktop? 848
bigbadwlf writes "EWeek has an opinion column, posted yesterday titled, Isn't Now the Time to Try a Linux Desktop? Quote: 'The crackers currently have the whip hand over Windows, and Microsoft's assertion that Internet Explorer is now part of the operating system shows its flawed reasoning. Worried sick about the latest rash of Internet Explorer security problems? I have the perfect solution for you, one that's even better than switching to Mozilla, Firefox or Opera. Switch operating systems: Go to Linux.'"
Linux? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not that easy to just tell someone, "Well, IE had a security exploit so it's time to switch to Linux!" The Linux desktop has usability and infrastructure issues. I don't expect them to remain forever, but it is sure taking a long time, and by then Apple's next version of MacOS will be out along with Windows Longhorn, and it will be another decade of playing catch-up with their new technologies.
I think right now the biggest thing I see keeping away commercial developers is the lack of a single binary installation/uninstallation API integrated into the desktop environment. You just can't be sure your app will still run in 5 years. Can you still run a Red Hat RPM you got in 1997? Windows can still run apps from 1991. In addition, a unified API akin to
I guess that's it, really--you can't expect the Linux desktop to become standard if it doesn't embrace any standards itself. Now, I know a lot of people like that facet of Linux, and that's cool. I'm just saying, don't be surprised if it never takes off in the mainstream as a result. It has a long, long way to go, most of it internal infrastructure issues (the fact we're still using X11 is embarrassing).
Re:Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Wine HQ [winehq.com]
TransGaming Technologies [transgaming.com]
Ask yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
The rest of the world doesn't share the anti-Microsoft, almost religious viewpoint that Linux is the better operating system just because it's open source and UNIX-like. They'll want actual reasons to switch. At most, they'll just use Firefox on Windows if you try to bring up IE insecurities.
Re:Ask yourself (Score:5, Informative)
Did you even read the Slashdot story to which this thread is related? The reason to switch is that IE is integrated into Microsoft's OS and Microsoft is incapable of securing their OS because of it! Even if you run a diffrent browser on a Microsoft OS, IE is integrated so that parts of it that may be subject to attack are being used by other parts of the OS. This forces you to apply patch after patch after patch to keep half a step ahead of the bad guys.
Seems like an "actual reason" to me!
Re:Ask yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems to me that if you're intelligent enough to use Linux every day, you're probably intelligent enough to keep your Windows machine sort of secure. I know i've never had a security problem on any of my Windows computers, and i only switched off of IE maybe 6 months ago.
Anyway, Linux is definitely more secure than Windows any day, but what are you willing to give up in order to have that extra security that you probably will never need? The list is too long to even begin. Going to Windows Update and clicking 'install updates' once every other month is a small price to pay for having a usable computer.
I'll probably get modded down as a troll, but i'm sorry, it's just the way it is for most people. Linux, BSD, &c., are fantastic for servers, and they're fantastic if you're really really really hard-core about open-source software. But for the desk top, no way. If there are this many people who are computer-savvy and hate Linux, just imagine how many non-computer-savvy people there are who won't like it.
Re:Ask yourself (Score:5, Insightful)
"I know i've never had a security problem on any of my Windows computers, and i only switched off of IE maybe 6 months ago."
Are you sure? When your box gets "owned" chances are you'll be the last to know.
"Going to Windows Update and clicking 'install updates' once every other month is a small price to pay for having a usable computer."
I can't say it any better than Steve Vaughan-Nichols who wrote the Eweek article on which the Slashdot story was based. When talking about a flaw that allowed hackers to take control of a computer running Windows and the Mozilla browser:
"Hmmm
The open source community responded lighting fast and reprogrammed the part of Mozilla that allowed a user to exploit a weakness in the XP operating system. They shouldn't have had to do this. Microsoft should have closed this hole more than a year ago.
Running an update every other month may give you a sense of security but it is a false sense of security!
Re:Ask yourself (Score:3, Interesting)
Now there are about 5 different ways to install things in "Linux", of course usually you would use the one for your distro, but how does the average user know which one that is? Also, many of these aren't point and click.
I download a staticly linked rpm for SuSE, click on it. I get to extract it - ok so far. Then I
Re:Ask yourself (Score:3, Interesting)
Let me give the examples you mised:
"Why it doesn't come with as many of these as Windows"
Word processors:
Windows - MS Word - $$$
Windows - Open Office - free
Windows - Word Perfect - $$$
Linux - Open Office - free
Linux - KWord - free
Linux - Abi Word - free
Linux - Ly
What hardware are you using? (Score:3, Interesting)
This is not the case for my computer alone but also my wife's computer and my home server. Linux came up with everything configured and running.
As far as the "fragmented" thing, I'm beginning to wonder if this is the newest Microsoft FUD. Linux is NOT as fragmented as you make out.
Re:Ask yourself (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people seem to forget that Windows is a commercial product. Microsoft is indeed in the game to make money. For shelling out $299 (certainly not a drop in the bucket) for a licensed copy of XP Professional, Microsoft is providing you considerably more service and value than just a CD thrown in a cardboard box. Product Support Services can be called at any time, 24/7; the Windows Update site, anytime 24/7, Knowledge Base 24/7, Developer Support 24/7...see a pattern here?
People tend to place a lot more value on the things they have to work for. Give 1 teenager a car, and force the other teenager to work for his own. Which teenager will still have the car after 5 years? Same thing with Windows and Linux. Linux is significantly different enough from Windows that it will cost me more time than money to learn what the differences are and get my skills with Linux up to the same level as I have with Windows. Money is simply a measure of value, and since time = money, I am not ready to make that commitment yet.
If the folks who support Linux would get together and settle their differences and fragmentation and decide on some standards on what to use, how to do it, and how to support it, then I would be more willing to make the time commitment to learn Linux. Seeing as no one is getting paid to do all this on the Linux end and no money, hence the VALUE aspect, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Prove me wrong.
Re:Ask yourself (Score:5, Interesting)
Have you ever seen an 8 year old keeping a windows machine secure? My daughter would click on every attachment she got in here inbox. I would have to reinstall windows on a weekly basis just to remove the crud.
I finally got sick of that and moved her machine to Linux. She thought she got a new computer because it looked so much better (kde) and had more games. The best part is she can be an average "Windows" user and NOT destroy the system, or get infected every other day.
What if I run FireFox and OpenOffice? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What if I run FireFox and OpenOffice? (Score:3, Interesting)
Then again, I blame that fact on Linux not being able to install on that machine. Any distro I've tried. Mandrake, Gentoo, and SuSE all lock up during install. It's strange.
Re:Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I'd rather have new stuff come out, fixing the bugs (which is what the articles about) and providing new features not available in Windows-land, instead of having my OS sit around in a pile of its own security-weaknesses and have old, buggy, cranky, obselete programs from '91.
Personally, I find that Windows XP has serious issues running anything that needs DOS emulation, while there are sometimes no modern alternatives. On the other hand, linux hackers release new apps almost as quick as the kernel hackers, so we're alright. Sure, this may not suit a corporation, but hey, for the moment it's alright for the user.
Re:Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux developers, on the other hand, have the opposite approach. They write software to perform a certain function, without much concern for the GUI. The GUI is later added out of necessity, with a clumsy attempt to twist it so that it can acommodate software that was written primarily with the CLI in mind. This is one of the reasons Linux users turn to the CLI so often. The GUI simply fails to do what it should do at times.
I personally find it unbelievable that in the year 2004, there is still an operating system where you actually have to use a CLI to install a device driver. I mean, I haven't had to do that since the days of DOS. Linux may be a great OS, but there has to be a complete reversal in the approach to designing software if it is to be accepted in the general population.
Look at OS X. A fully functional UNIX CLI exists. However, most Mac users will never see it. It is as transparent as it was in the days of OS 9 (when there was no CLI). As long as Linux is a OS developed by geeks for geeks it will never penetrate the desktop market.
Re:Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I think that's the wrong way to design software. Why should the core functionality of an application be tied to the GUI? I would
Re:Linux? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Linux? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's like saying that I should build my own car and tune it myself to go 150 MPH. While it would be nice for me to learn about the mechanics of the internal combustion engine, and to get the power that comes with learning how to painstakingly tune it myself, I have no desire to put forth the effort. I know how to check, fill,
Finally (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
and once you figured it out it will just keep on w (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux is harder but once it works it works. I always waste some time if I have to install a linux system on getting it right, it even crashes a couple of times. But once I finished it just stays up and works. I never had linux go tit
Re:Finally (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it make much sense, though? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:5, Insightful)
And what makes you think that home installations of Linux would be any different?
You can run XP as a non-admin user *right now*, using the "Run As..." service to run stuff with admin privs as needed. Mark my words - when/if "the average user" starts to switch to Linux, either they'll run as root or, if the system supports it, they'll enter their root password to install stuff whenever prompted.
The security model of the OS is secondary to an educated user being sat at the keyboard.
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:3, Insightful)
For example, I wanted to install OpenOffice on a Windows 2000 computer today. Easy right? I though it would be too.
First I had to find my way to the openoffice website and eventually find the right download link. Then I had to download it. It came as a zip file so I had to unzip that. After that I ran the setup programs and had to answer at least five questions. Finally after all that hassle it was ready to be used.
On the other hand, on my Linux machine,
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:5, Insightful)
It did use a Windows installer. You can ignore the ZIP step and I've still described just about every Windows application installation procedure.
I didn't.
Okay, sudo apt-get install openoffice.org. You have to switch to an Administrator in Windows, so I figured that point was not pertenent.
Not on my system I didn't.
I hear this all the time. I can't think of any text files I need to modify, ever.
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:3, Informative)
apt-get install openoffice.org
Which apt repository did you use? Any distro I've used that had a mechanism like apt (yum, etc.), I had to manually select and enter the server names in a config file before I got anything to work at all. On top of that, editing a config file almost always required me to be root and to select what program I wanted to edit the file with (double clicking the file opened it in konqueror, read-only).
Ho
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:3, Interesting)
1.) Keep their anti-virus up to date
2.) Stop clicking on email attachments from people they don't know
3.) Run spybot/ad-aware to clean up their computer
4.) Run windows update once every six months
Then how can you expect them to learn the linux operating system? I do all of the above and more and my system has never had a worm or trojan (and I dont use anti-virus software to boot, i just watch what runs on my computer and keep it patched). It took me weeks to get my dad to
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? That's what people keep saying, but I'm a little less sure it's true. What makes Linux hard is administering it. If you can't administer your windows box, what difference does it make that you can't administer your linux box either? Other than that it's just a "getting used to" issue - and again, the more computer phobic you are, and the less you understand, the easier this can tend to be. Serious windows users know all the shortcut keys, and the efficient ways of doing things. They know all about the nice extra functionality that is available. Naive users just don't know anything about that - they have much lower expectations of what a computer should be able to do. They don't understand how any of it works anyway, so the change is far less stressful than you would imagine (especially if you use something like Linspire or Xandros which hews pretty close to a lot of the basic windows ways of doing things). It's not like switching to linux means you have to grasp some new interface that doesn't use WIMP.
How about in practice? I switched my parents to linux. They had no problems using it. And believe me, my parents are far from computer savvy (my mother couldn't figure out how to install new fonts in windows). My girlfriend was curious as to what linux was like - I gave her a knoppix CD, and she figured everything else out herself.
Sure anecdotes are not data, b ut where is the data? Why is there an assumption that computer-phobic can't use linux? Certainly I haven't seen any real data on that either.
Jedidiah.
Really? Try this (Score:5, Insightful)
Have your mom go buy a new printer and scanner and try to install it. Have them try to install an application themselves.
We always hear about people who have switched their non-computer-savvy relatives to Linux, but that doesn't mean anything. It's the computer-savvy people you need to target. People who do nothing else but write e-mail, surf eBay, and keep family photos can use pretty much anything from OS X to Windows 95 to KDE. It's not saying much to brag that Linux can use a printer or surf the net. It's when people want to install a new video card, or perhaps a new DVD burner, or perhaps they want to hook up a microphone and try some recording, or maybe they want to play The Sims 2, or maybe they want to install (or better yet, uninstall) an application. Perhaps they'd like to switch from dialup to DSL.
There are a million different possibilities that go beyond someone's grandma who just uses Linux to browse MSN and check their e-mail. I mean, big deal. There's more to a desktop than that.
Re:Really? Try this (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, that was my point. The original post said complained that it was the unaware computer-phobic people that are being asked to switch (due to all the viruses, spyware and the like), but such people are incapable of using Linux. All I said was that that was quite possibly rubbish. You are here agreeing with me. I agree entirely that the computer savvy windows user is much less likely to change. So what? You say "It's the computer-savvy people you need to target", but I don't need to do anything. I switched my parents to linux because, quite frankly, it is easier for them to use. I have no aims for linux global domination, or the destruction of the windows empire - I just want to make my parents computing experience a little less painful.
Have your mom go buy a new printer and scanner and try to install it. Have them try to install an application themselves.
Actually they've done both already. I bought a nice boxed distribution for them complete with a little manual. They read that, and followed the instructions.
Perhaps they'd like to switch from dialup to DSL.
They're planning on doing that eventually actually. Then again, with the distribution they're using that is no harder to do than it is on windows (there's a nice setup wizard that you just step through).
Sure, there are still issues that they'll run into occasionally, but then they ran into plenty of issues on windows too. In general linux has been easier for them to use, not harder. Yes, that's largely because they aren't very computer savvy, and will struggle with basic administration tasks regardless of what they are using, but THAT'S THE POINT. For them it is easier, and that's all I'm worried about.
Jedidiah.
Re:Does it make much sense, though? (Score:3, Insightful)
I admit, I had 1 major advantage: I wasn't getting them to install linux over top of their old system. Rather, I waited till they were due for a hardware upgrade and had them put lin
not yet (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:not yet (Score:3, Informative)
The article points out CrossOver Office handles that one.
and "where is my internet explorer" and I need my Norton Anti-Virus.
The reason for switching was to get away from IE and viruses - if they were actually switching for that reason, why on earth would they then complain about the lack of it?
An acquainance of mine can't get over the fact that his win xp box doesn't have a floppy disk drive. What would he do
Year 2004 is the year of Linux desktop! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Year 2004 is the year of Linux desktop! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Year 2004 is the year of Linux desktop! (Score:3, Interesting)
Because they read Slashdot and the MS defect of the week, and think that millions of people run around in a panic desperately trying to patch their system. They think it should be bonehead obvious to all of us Windows users that we should switch, even though they don't consider the idea that we don't rate security as high as they do, especially when we know switchi
Hmm... (Score:2)
I'll sum it up: use Xandros, SuSE, or Linspire. Use CodeWeavers or Win4Lin if you can't handle OO.o.
It doesn't really go into the details like migration issues at all. The author only mentions the difficulty of moving over in one of the final paragraphs.
Remember BSD! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Remember BSD! (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, FreeBSD supports 100% of the hardware on my home desktop, home laptop and company workstation. That's about two percentage points better than Linux, and forty percentage points better than Windows XP.
Re:Remember BSD! (Score:3, Informative)
So was my memory stick.
Well factored code (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, if Microsoft factored their code properly there would be almost nothing to Internet Explorer -- a few high level calls to standard libraries and that would be that. Agreed, this isn't what they've done (although they might be fooling themselves into thinking this is what they've done) -- but it isn't an inherently bad thing to say that Internet Explorer is "part of the operating system" so much as saying the "operating system" itself should be nothing but a nanokernel. Even Linux fails in that regard.
Isn't it a little early... (Score:5, Insightful)
Feh (Score:5, Funny)
Broken link? Here's the fix. (Score:5, Informative)
Security Center Editor Larry Seltzer takes a different view of the bug in Mozilla on Windows. Click here to read more.
I'm clicking but I'm not getting any reading. I assume this is the same for everyone else. For anyone who wants to read the article that wasn't linked properly, check here:
Larry Seltzer on Mozilla Flaw [eweek.com]
Radical change in work environment (Score:2)
It would take a lot more work switching to Linux due to not only learning how the new operating system works, but also how to learn time saving shortcuts that come with the OS and the new productive applications needed to acquire.
This article uses the widespread threat of hackers "holding the
Go for it! (Score:3, Insightful)
It's the Apps Stupid... (Score:3, Insightful)
OR...
Ditch IE and Outlook (together responsible for 99% of Windows problems right now) install Services for UNIX on your Windows XP/2003 box and run all of your Windows apps and games PLUS all of your UNIX apps.
Sorry, but Windows still controls the applications universe.
It's the hardware too! (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm probably leaving some other cool things I do with my computer too.
Re:It's the Apps Stupid... (Score:3, Insightful)
You will find many here who use Linux as there primary or only OS. Are you saying these people don't actually use their machines?
Re:It's the Apps Stupid... (Score:3, Informative)
Works [actionscript.com] under crossover office. Also see NVU, Bluefish, and Quanta for great native GUI HTML composers that run natively.
Warcraft
Frecraft [4t.com] or under TransGaming [transgaming.com].
Neverwinter
Runs natively [bioware.com]
EQ
Runs under Trans Gaming [transgaming.com]
Re:It's the Apps Stupid... (Score:3, Insightful)
A lot of people feel that Microsoft chose to do that in order to prevent the Justice Department from forcing them to remove it before Netscape was rendered completely ir
Re:It's about Freedom, Stupid... (Score:4, Insightful)
Free COGO suite to work with?
Hey, I know - a good Free PCB design toolchain!
Wait... do these exist? If they do, are they even remotely comparable to the proprietary equivalents?
For some of us, its about getting something useful done. Go be Free; I'm going to do something useful.
Re:It's about Freedom, Stupid... (Score:3, Informative)
CAD link 1 [linuxgazette.com]
CAD link 2 [tech-edv.co.at]
PCB link 1 [jhu.edu]
PCB link 2 [intercept.com]
PCB link 3 [electronicstalk.com]
I couldn't find any COGO links. But then, I searched for COGO in general, and the only suites that came up were DOS and Unix. I can't comment on the quality of the Linux software, as I don't do this stuff. But I wasn't under the impression that Windows was the premier CAD environment (all the CAD and Database guys at work have big Unix workstations).
To truly compete... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not just desktop computers, either. You need to have everything from laptops to USB thumb drives to MP3 players to digital cameras and camcorders. Your computer IS your digital hub.
Linux users need to get in the habit of acting like Mac users. They don't have the hardware support, so they need to make it blatantly obvious what hardware does work with their platform.
The other big thing Linux needs to survive (other than Quicken and TurboTax) is Office VBA compatibility. In the Enterprise, this is essential. There are plenty of BASICs out there, why hasn't OO.org incorporated one of them?
Re:To truly compete... (Score:3, Informative)
I recently had the same idea... (Score:2, Informative)
Well, recently, I got the bright idea to try XP and long story short Windows won't even let itself install on my hard drive anymore. So I took it as a sign and switched to Linux again.
I recently received in the mail 4 distros, Knoppix 3.4, Suse 9.1 personal, Mandrake 10, and Slackware 10. I had used Suse 8.2 and kind of liked
Basic Assumption is False (Score:3, Interesting)
In the meantime, I use Firefox for Windows which is nicely patched (and quite quickly patched at that).
WTF (Score:2)
It's about damn time! (Score:4, Interesting)
All I want to say, is that I've been using Debian Linux for about 5 years now, and just switched from using the "ultra-elite" Fluxbox WM to Gnome 2.6 since it got uploaded to Unstable, and I have had absolutely 0 problems. It JUST WORKS. It's easy enough for my mom's boyfriend to figure out. Even the horridly cryptic "gconf-editor" is easier to get around than regedit. I don't see why anybody in their right mind would still fend for Windows when they have a completely usable, prettier, faster alternative with 99% of applications able to do what Windows apps can already do.
SWITCH TO LINUX!!
Re:It's about damn time! (Score:3, Interesting)
It Happens (Score:5, Interesting)
He wanted me to walk him through installing Linux, right then and there -- over the phone. So I did. I said, "Well, what I recommend is you get your feet wet, first". I Asked him how he used his laptop; What were the applications he couldn't live without; What were the ones he liked but could live without, etc.
Then I said, "You know, all the applications you mention are ones that will run on both Linux and Windows. Why don't you download and install them, first on Windows, get to know them and then switch all the way to Linux, once you've adjusted?".
He agreed to give my recommendation a try, and that was it. Storm calmed. About an hour later, he called back to say he'd found the file containing his address book and had "reconnected it to Outlook". Problem solved.
Seems like, recently, I've run into more and more awareness of (at least the word) Linux. It's becoming a great "save" me" point when clients get frustrated with Windows. They just want to give Microsoft the big heave-ho! And, though I and everyone in my home and office have been Microsoft-free since 1998, I find myself talking people out of taking the plunge.
I wish there was a distribution that gave me the confidence I need to recommend it. Since all I know is DEC, Solaris and RedHat/Fedora, perhaps I should buy a copy of Linspire and try it out -- for clients' sake. Any other suggestions for helping people transition?
Why switch? (Score:2, Interesting)
There's never been a lack of reasons to leave... (Score:5, Insightful)
Here, I set up a Linux desktop for my parents (actually, it was more of a Linux server for me, we simply added keyboard/mouse/screen), and it turns out they use it more than Windows. Properly set up with a cron job to update itself, it should be nearly maintenance-free.
Personally, I run Windows on my main machine (+ X server to run Linux apps) because there are simply so much I'm not ready to let go of, and emulation in Linux.... well, in my experience it's either a) very slow (typically VM solution) or b) difficult and buggy (emulation / system call translation ).
Linux is making big inroads in the corporate market. Don't expect to see any serious migration on the desktop until that has happened. After all, that is where most non-computer interested people get their computer experience and knowledge.
Kjella
Ok Grandma and Gramps .... (Score:3, Funny)
Second, you use this board with letters, numbers and symbols on it to input, "type", information into the computer
Third, you move this kinf of round object here to select stuff on the screen, "moniter", which we call a mouse.
Ok, you got all of that. Good. Here's a cd with linux on it. You have to install it to use the computer. I have to go.
All kidding aside, you know that's going to happen, most of my family is that way with the ironic exception of my grandma. I think she has worked on computers since they came out. She has a box with XP on it that she rarely uses and another on that is of the pre-pentium era that she uses frequently. In her case, I think she would do better with linux than windows, but I don't think she is savvy enough to install it herself. If this is going to work, computers are going to have to be shipped with linux pre-installed and be readilly availabe.
The Ghist (Score:2)
Then he finishes by offering ways to run windows, win4lin, within a virtual machine on linux.
I am getting tired of cheerleaders. Journals, I don't think this one, install, manage, or write code for any open-source projects.
He doesn't offer any solutions or ideas, just researches other peoples suggestions and reformats them.
Randy
Linux needs to be properly "marketed" to consumers (Score:2, Insightful)
Mandrake 10.0 a Nice Suprise! (Score:4, Informative)
Also, after setting up the http mirrors I found that software installation was incredibly simple. I was able to install everything I needed in just a few mouse clicks. This included everything from Apache/PHP/mySQL to silly stuff like Gaim.
This is the first Linux install I've ever had where I didn't have to edit at least a couple text files to get it to run properly. I would reccomend it as a great "Linux Desktop" for the Average Joe user.
Linux desktop? I use it! (Score:3, Insightful)
Does Konqueror have the same basic problem? (Score:3, Insightful)
KDE FUD, not insightful (Score:4, Informative)
E.g. in Debian I type "apt-get remove konqueror" and I won't see konqueror ever again. I can still use all of KDE and enjoy the web with mozilla, opera, whatever. [I prefer konqueror to opera and mozilla-firefox, though. ATM I prefer mozilla-thunderbird to kmail due to easier IMAP spam filtering]
There are no similarities to the IE/Windows chimera, where upgrading the OS requires the browser and where there is no clear separation between apps and OS infrastructure and data.
Not for me, or most of the people I work with... (Score:3, Informative)
I like to modify my menus. I'm particular about how programs are labeled and categorized. Under Windows this is a no brainer - you can edit the menus in place, or right click and choose explore and modify from there. Under KDE (and Gnome) the menu editor stinks. It loses track of single items (not categories) not even showing them. I ended up hand editing my menu items (thankfully freedesktop.org has a description of what the text files should contain!) in order to get them to show up properly.
Is this the idea of a desktop operating system? No. As bas as it is, people want a graphical operating system and they want it tied closely to the underlying file systems and hardware. Linux may detect new hardware but does that detection extend into the graphical operating system?
Don't even get me started on playing video files under X and the intellectual property issues involved. I know and understand that the Linux community can't do anything to fix this -- it is the codecs and codec owners involved -- but it is a stumbling block to adoption.
Finally - there is the issue of no program ever getting to final status. This one has been picked up and banged on by a lot of people in the past few months but it is the truth. It is part of open source and open standards, and most programmers want to itch their own itch. If I were going to set out to create a volume control program I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to find someone else's past code - complete with their bugs and bad architecture - to start with. Yet I find myself with over 5 volume control utilities on my newly installed SuSE 9.1 system. That's kind of silly!
A unification of an operating system is *not* bad. Having someone direct the operating system and its integration with other software is and can be a good thing. Most distributions try to mold this software into one look and feel, but if they go to far (BlueCurve) a good percentage of the community goes up in arms.
Linux has the hardware support. Linux has the software support. Linux does not have the integration of the software with the software, nor the software with the hardware, to compete against Windows as a desktop operating system at this time IMHO.
Let's face it! (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's face it I don't have to be a car mechanic to drive a car for my convenience so I don't have to be a CS graduate in order to be able to use my computer. Most people (the VAST majority of the MS crowd) don't care! That's right, they don't care about CS, about linux, about MS, about IE about anything. Why should they care? When was the last time a car dealer sold you a car on the condition that you'll take car-mechanic classes or crash-courses or enlist to online support forums? People buy a computer to use it for their job or convenience right out of the box. The rest is intellectual wars from people that are personally involved in IT or CS or Tech Science in general and assume some sort of importance by declaring their preferences.
What MS created and keeps creating is an OS that even that last computer illiterate can use with no problem. It has gone a long way that way but now it is time for them to reverse a bit and patch up the security holes they user-friendly OS architecture created.
Linux on the other hand started from the other end by creating a robust system on a solid architecture and slowly crawling to user-friendliness. The year Linux will meet with MS midway will be the year of the Linux.
Re:Let's face it! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Let's face it! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, that's the great thing about Windows. When my mom calls up and complains that her printer isn't working, I can just tell her to pop the Windows CD in and click "Repair Windows." Viola! The printer is working again! Not to mention all the spyware has been removed, and it sends out signals to blow up all the zombie spam relays in the world, while solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
As someone who is trying to drag my parents kicking and screaming into the 1990's, I feel fully qualified to make the following statement: Windows is not simple to install, simple to use, or simple to administer.
Most users dont care... (Score:4, Insightful)
If they can still run their games, and balance their check book... it doesnt effect them so they dont care..
Nor do they care about the costs, or that they are feeding an evil monopoly.
*we* care, but the 'real world' doesnt...
A simply tip to switchers, KVM switch instead (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are a windows born and bred type of computer user linux will be hard. Especially if you really want to learn linux and not just whine on /. about how it is not windows.
People with dos experience will have the basic mindset that not everything has to be done in a GUI with a wizard but people raised on windows 95 and later will have to do some adjusting.
Oh and if you want linux to be like windows just give up right now. It isn't and hopefully never will be. Linux is a unix. Love it or leave it.
So on to my tip. DO NOT SWITCH. DO NOT INSTALL LINUX OVER YOUR WINDOWS and expect to enjoy it. DO NOT EVEN USE DUAL BOOT.
Why not? No matter how smart you are if you are used to Windows 95 and later you will find plenty of moments where you just get stuck in linux. If you are in dualboot and need to reboot to read up on how to get your network up and running then you are setting youreselve up to get a hatred of linux because to you windows just works and linux doesn't (you ofcourse will be forgetting that you once had to learn to get windows to work too).
Instead setup linux on a old machine and use a kvm switch to switch between them. Then you can use your old familiar setup to read up on how to work with your new OS and if for some reason you quickly need to do something you haven't yet learned on Linux Windows is only a button press away. Get frustated, lost, out of time? 1 press and hello windows. Want to try again after your head cleared? 1 press and back you are to learning and trying.
KVM switch (keyboard video mouse) is even better then two machines next to each other. Why? When you press the button for linux that is all you see, no problems with two keyboards and one is easier to type on or the windows machine has the bigger monitor. Keep the printer on windows for now so that when you got some long piece of text on windows on a linux subject you can print it (printer setup in linux is easy enough once you mastered it, mastering it isn't easy for everyone so wait, babysteps)
Now if you got linux running smoothly start using it for 1 or 2 tasks. If your a gamer do all your browsing, downloading and music playing on linux. You will then notice if you use a browser like opera you can keep all the webpages open as you like, have downloads going in the greatest memory hogs java ever spawned, play your mp3 collection from beginning to end WHILE gaming with 100% of your windows machine. Does the game crash? No worry, the linux machine will still be playing your MP3's while windows reboots, have the walkthrough page where you left it and the download happily downloading. BUT always remember to take babysteps. Don't do them all at once. One at the time. Browsing /. is probably the easist.
Next you may try stuff like Mplayer (linux movie player) and get rid off all the conflicting codecs on your windows machine that are just eating resources. Try openoffice for writing your letters. Email may be intresting to switch (do you really need outlook and exchange at home?)
I think this way works best, it works excellently for me. I am a web developer with some coding skill and an avid game and anime watcher. ALL my gaming is on windows plus some photoshop. ALL the rest is on linux. Because my game windows doesn't do anything else I got more memory for my games and more cpu cycles. I also care far less about game crashes as it doesn't interupt anything else (I don't photoshop and game at the same time).
Meanwhile I have learned an awfull lot of linux (to be fair I come from a unix background and had plenty of dos experience so it wasn't that hard for me) and more importantly I have the mindset that there is more then 1 OS out there. You might be suprised to learn this but if you go out into the workplace you might encounter everything from DOS to unix to VMS to mainframes (well software running on mainframes) to custom-made to windows 3.1->2003 to Linux to OS-2 to Mac OS 8-X etc.
A Windows 95-2003 person will be horribly confused. So am I but at least I have managed to learn the principles behind using a computer. Not just to press buttong X in situation Y.
desktops need support (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm planning to celebrate when Linux moves from 1% to 2% on the Google Zeitgeist [google.com] OS pie chart.
Danny.
I've said it once and I'll say it again (Score:3, Interesting)
Hear me out on this.
Better game support = more kids knowing about Linux = more parents curious about linux = more companies being aware about Linux.
Better game suuport also = no need for dual boot = wider use of Linux = a wider testing base.
Better game support also = more hardware vendors writing drivers for Linux = benefit in software categories other than gaming.
More kids knowing about Linux also = More potential Linux only users = a wider pool of future OSS developers.
There seems to be only ONE hardware vendor that has recognized the importance of gaming to Linux and that's NVIDIA. I applaud them for that. They will reap the benefits when more and more people buy NVIDIA cards not just because of their performance, but because there are drivers available for Linux.
The sooner software gaming companies recognize this fact, the better. The nice part is that it is too late for any company, including M$ to keep them from writing games for Linux. The Linux market is starting to take off and it is in their interest to wake up and smell the coffee.
Terminology (Score:3, Interesting)
While the article doesn't speak about GNU/Linux, it does call people who break into computers crackers, not hackers, and that's a good thing. Let's hope it's a trend :-).
Re:irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)
What about when most users had Windows 3.1? Setting that up wasn't practical for an end user either, as it required the ability to physically set hardware addresses, configure things through the MCI control panel that were a little less than intuitive, and knowledge of how Program Manager tied into the actual programs.
Sell a preloaded computer with Linux to the masses, and I'm not just talking e-Machines or Walmart, and the books will follow. The "ten easy things to do in Linux" columns in laymans' computer magazines will follow.
People may not patch or compile their own kernels or programs, but that's okay. That's why distributions with package management utilities exist. I don't know about you, but I haven't had to compile anything by hand in quite some time since switching to Debian.
Most users where I work at don't have a clue anyway, so not having a clue in Linux isn't any worse than not having a clue in Windows. In fact, once they're shown the basics of how there are no drive letters and how things are just off of / I suspect that they'll work with it just fine, and they will have a significantly harder time breaking the system into pieces with stuff off of the Internet.
Re:irrelevant (Score:3, Interesting)
Wow, that is a convincing argument. Switch from Windows XP to the equivalent of Windowx 3.1.
Re:irrelevant (Score:3, Insightful)
Most people do NOT want to go to work in the morning, or change diapers, or watch commercials either and find each one of those frustrating. But the end result of each makes it worth it to the person. Don't, and I say this as someone who's been accused of it many times myself, be too elitist. We're not some seperate species gifted at birth with the ability to config
Re:irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)
The moment most users using Windows can setup their own printer, remove spyware, or reconfigure their network settings in Windows without having to call upon the tech person they know, then you have a valid point.
But most users using Windows can't do that in Windows, so what makes you think Linux will be any more difficult?
Re:Not to necessarily dispute... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not to necessarily dispute... (Score:3, Informative)
It is also worth nothing that the shell:// protocol problem is a problem with its *handler* which is provided by the OS (which is why it only afflicted MS Windows versi
Re:Finally (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Finally (Score:3, Insightful)
Should have checked if your hardware [hardwaredb.suse.de] works with the distro.
Reasons why linux is ready for desktop
Gnome [gnome.org]: Makes it as easy as working on windows.
KDE [kde.org]: Eye candy that gnome might lack.
Kpackage [kde.org]: Makes installing and uninstalling as easy as clicking a pretty button, for atleast deb based distros.
Knoppix [knoppix.net]: Preconfigured debian.
Mandrake [mandrake.com]: One of the most user friendly distros out there.
S [suse.com]
Re:Finally (Score:3, Interesting)
KDE: Eye candy that gnome might lack.
Maybe this is part of the problem with you guys. You really think KDE is 'eye candy'? :/
This probably doesn't matter to a whole lot of people, but i'm a huge interface person. It's not as superficial as some people seem to believe -- i need my computer to look good to be able to get something done. Maybe it's an obsessive-compulsive thing. If it's ugly, i tend to focus on the ugliness, and i'm not as productive (or, at least, not as comfortable).
The Linux GUI* i
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Linux? What about usability? (Score:3)
Linux: open the command line, find the name of the program you want to install, type distribution specific commands in followed by the name of the program. -OR- Distribution does not support previous steps, find program, ungz/untar, find where program was uncompressed to, config, compile, find where program was compiled to.
Re:You know... (Score:3, Insightful)
WTF? You explicitly said that Linux was "virus-safe". Don't give me that bullshit. You said it. Explicitly. You're wrong. Explicity. No operating system that does anything is, was, or ever will be "virus-safe" unless it's completely controlled by some sort of trusted computing. On top of that, a lot of what you're counting as viruses are application and user problems more than Operating System problems. Linux is secure like UNIX. UNIX has fallen victim to worms and viruses. Linux can too. Not only that, a s
Re:Why not Mac? (Score:3, Interesting)
You equate Linux and Mac as both having to learn new systems, but fail to mention any sort of learning curve. The learning curve on Mac is much shallower than Linux or Windows (assuming they've not used it.) Computers were introduced to make people more productive. With a shallower learning curve and features that can actually make a user more productive (e.g. native office support, a good clipboard), I don't unde
Re:LET IT DIE ALREADY! (Score:3, Insightful)
It's pretty, It's good and it's a lot different the SuSE I'm used to.
Advantages: The install was flawless and idiot proof (not being newbie I can't really comment to much on this). The start menu & taskbar have been pared down to stuff regular people use and is no longer this massive and confusing list of various programs. There are provisions to connect to existin
Re:LET IT DIE ALREADY! (Score:3, Interesting)
You made my point. FreeBSD and Unix in my opinion are far supperior architecture wise but I am sick of trying to convert the world.
You and me have some experience coding and doing interesting things with our systems. 96% could not care less and want to get work done or goof off with surfing/IM/games/spreadsheets, etc.
I just can not justify Linux/Unix to non programers or administrators? It never was designed to be a perfect be all os. It was made by hackers for hackers and yes its not easy to learn